10-17-2013 02:34 AM
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  1. MikeSo's Avatar
    A 13" tablet is ridiculous
    I agree. However... When I spent half an hour with the original iPad in the store, doing a whole bunch of things with it, I concluded that it was crap, too heavy, too limited and would flop. It was just a ridiculous product that I couldn't see any use for, especially at that price point and compared to much more powerful laptops for less.

    Ever since, I've stopped commenting on the viability in the marketplace of tech products...
    HeyCori, ohgood, tgp and 1 others like this.
    10-10-2013 03:55 PM
  2. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    A few more thoughts:
    This convertible PC market is new and has yet to take off in any meaningful way. Apple launching a competing produce here is different than anything else they could be working on in that sense. It is a market Microsoft has entered and bet a significant amount on, but also a market they could very easily lose.

    Also, I think I should clarify what I mean when I say "PC replacement". You see, PCs as we know them today will likely never go away completely as there will always be people who need the functionality they offer. But that market is going to shrink substantially as 80% of what they do becomes possible on other, simpler devices. A PC replacement isn't the only computer for someone who needs a full PC, but rather for someone who doesn't. They will be able to browse the web, run apps, do word processing and every other basic task most people need. But they won't be heavy multiastkng machines, nor will they offer much in the way of file management outside of basic functions. In fact, most of your data will live on the cloud with these devices. That is the future.

    But, as I said, PCs will not go away. They will just become something for geeks and professionals rather than anybody and everybody.
    10-10-2013 04:05 PM
  3. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    So iOS is not x86-compatible? It's not? Then I don't care if they release a 400-inch iPad. It will still be an iPad.
    10-10-2013 04:30 PM
  4. SwimSwim's Avatar
    It's an interesting, complicated, concept.

    Yes, the world laughed at the original iPad, yet what do ya know? It became a hit and revived a market category no one ever thought would succeed. However, despite that, Apple has had their fair share flops over the years, and it potentially sounds like this could be one.

    It's not much of a PC replacement just running iOS. Sure, iOS can be updated to make better use of the extra screen real-estate, but much like the Surface 2, it's still running a mobile OS. It may be able to fill the roles of many aspects of your life, but you're still occasionally going to need that laptop or desktop. This is further reinforced by the fact the iPad has no peripheral support, only prints via their own, proprietary system, no Flash support (but I will cut Apple some slack in that the world really ought to have moved on to HTML5 by now), lacking full Office, no proper file system, etc. etc.

    Let's not mention the price. Knowing Apple, something like this will likely start at a good $600-700, just a few Benjamins short of an entry level Surface Pro. And of course, that $600-700 will only get you a 16GB or 32GB configuration, depending on what they start with. And with no usb for external hard drives or SD card support, you're stuck with whatever memory configuration you choose. Hell, the iPad already costs $800 for 128GB, so how much would it cost to use this as a PC replacement? Oh, and let's not forget how much more expensive this will be if it runs OS X.

    Speaking of which, if it runs OS X, I think that kinda defeats the purpose. Something I like about the Surface Pro is that it's nice, small and portable for when out-and-about, you know, so you can use it like a tablet. Then, when you're ready to really get some work done, just plug in that external monitor (or, come January, just place it in your docking station) and get working away, right on the big screen. A 13" device kinda defeats the whole purpose of a hybrid model. It's a bit big and unwieldy for use as a tablet, yet too small to be a decent PC replacement.

    One thing's for sure, should Apple come to market with this, the media will praise it and everyone will flip out over it, forgetting Microsoft is gearing up to release their Surface line refresh. If it does turn out to be real, it could very well be a runaway success, simply because, as we know, the iSheep blindly follow what Tim Cook and all the rest tell them. Guess we have to wait until Oct 22, for now. Hmm, won't that be an exciting day... Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2 go on sale, big Nokia announcement, and Apple will be releasing their next waste of money (admittedly though, the Surface prices are a little steep, so lowering their cost just a little bit could go a long way).

    October certainly will be a month to remember in the world of tech, won't it?
    10-10-2013 09:37 PM
  5. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    I think the real question we should all be asking is this: how dumb will 'iBook' users look when they use this thing as a camera out in public?
    kittengirl likes this.
    10-10-2013 09:52 PM
  6. chezm's Avatar
    I wouldn't go as far as to say iPads a waste of money, but more a portable device that performs the functions of our cell phone on a bigger screen....without the voice support (until VoLTE does take off). It will succeed and we will all whine because it really sucks how easy they sell without the hassle. Dammit lol.
    10-10-2013 10:06 PM
  7. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I think the real question we should all be asking is this: how dumb will 'iBook' users look when they use this thing as a camera out in public?
    Ha ha! Too true! I always die a little on the inside when I see someone using an iPad (or any tablet, for that matter) as a camera, especially when I see people using an iPad as their camera, when they literally have an iPhone (which doesn't look ridiculous AND has a better camera!) in their purse/pocket. Yes, I've seen this before, and really just wanted to knock that tablet out of their hand and tell them to use the decent camera they've got on 'em.
    WanderingTraveler likes this.
    10-10-2013 10:56 PM
  8. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I wouldn't go as far as to say iPads a waste of money, but more a portable device that performs the functions of our cell phone on a bigger screen....without the voice support (until VoLTE does take off). It will succeed and we will all whine because it really sucks how easy they sell without the hassle. Dammit lol.
    True, worthless is an over statement. It's especially nice for kids, who care not for productivity. The iPad is indeed for that. Big games market, lots of videos and book on iTunes, plus while I don't think Windows 8 is hard (people are just stubborn), the iPad is a little bit easier to pick up on. Granted, the less features and power your product has, the easier it is to streamline what it does have, but that's besides the point.

    So iPads aren't worthless, but they are expensive. But not much a leg to stand on here, seeing as I'm finding myself buying a Surface Pro 2 in the coming weeks, feeling a tad bit of regret, looking at how this will consume my summer job money. Sigh, it's great that Microsoft is following Apple's model of being a hardware and services company, but did they really have to mimic the very high cost, too?
    10-10-2013 11:01 PM
  9. chezm's Avatar
    So iPads aren't worthless, but they are expensive. But not much a leg to stand on here, seeing as I'm finding myself buying a Surface Pro 2 in the coming weeks, feeling a tad bit of regret, looking at how this will consume my summer job money. Sigh, it's great that Microsoft is following Apple's model of being a hardware and services company, but did they really have to mimic the very high cost, too?
    Tru dat. I work full time and still need to ensure my Pro 2 investment makes sense to spend so much money. I'm not the type that buys new hardware every year, im more a 5-7 year kinda person (my wife's laptop is 8 years old, my PC is 4 years old)...so I am researching as much but know Pro 2 is what I want.

    Agreed , iPads aren't cheap...but they are built well with beautiful retina display that pops out with colors. I am a little upset that some reviews of Pro 2 testing state resolution hasn't been improved from P1...i hope that's not the case.
    10-11-2013 12:27 AM
  10. SwimSwim's Avatar
    Tru dat. I work full time and still need to ensure my Pro 2 investment makes sense to spend so much money. I'm not the type that buys new hardware every year, im more a 5-7 year kinda person (my wife's laptop is 8 years old, my PC is 4 years old)...so I am researching as much but know Pro 2 is what I want.

    Agreed , iPads aren't cheap...but they are built well with beautiful retina display that pops out with colors. I am a little upset that some reviews of Pro 2 testing state resolution hasn't been improved from P1...i hope that's not the case.
    Nope, no resolution bump. Same 1080p screen as before. If you're a pixel peeper, then this might very well be too low of a pixel density for you. However, for most this ought to be fine. I've seen it in stores, and I thought it looked fantastic.

    Personal mileage may vary.
    10-12-2013 02:00 AM
  11. slowboy920's Avatar
    Tru dat. I work full time and still need to ensure my Pro 2 investment makes sense to spend so much money. I'm not the type that buys new hardware every year, im more a 5-7 year kinda person (my wife's laptop is 8 years old, my PC is 4 years old)...so I am researching as much but know Pro 2 is what I want.

    Agreed , iPads aren't cheap...but they are built well with beautiful retina display that pops out with colors. I am a little upset that some reviews of Pro 2 testing state resolution hasn't been improved from P1...i hope that's not the case.
    I know how you feel. I thought long and hard on purchasing SP2. I have a RT and it does most of what I need. At this point it's a need and want issue. The human mind is never content. I pulled the trigger and pre-ordered, but continue to debate with myself on such a investment. Hoping to use it mobile and desktop replacement as I started post-grad this semester
    10-12-2013 07:45 AM
  12. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    Just stumbled across this, thought I'd drop it in here:
    Apple Eyes 13-Inch iPad Hybrid? 8 Signs - Hardware - Desktops/PCs -
    10-12-2013 08:42 AM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Just stumbled across this, thought I'd drop it in here:
    Apple Eyes 13-Inch iPad Hybrid? 8 Signs - Hardware - Desktops/PCs -
    Nice find. Reading the article I can't help but notice the multiple references to falling Mac sales. The cynic in me says that if Apple builds this, they're conceding that Cook was wrong in his dismissal of hybrids. If this is so, then Cook can't possibly be the proper successor to Steve Jobs because he would lack the vision to carry Apple into the future. The realist in me says this may be just a ploy to get the sheep all riled up and keep Apple in the news. Either way, Microsoft won this round but true heavyweights go the full 15 rounds.
    10-12-2013 08:59 AM
  14. chezm's Avatar
    Just stumbled across this, thought I'd drop it in here:
    Apple Eyes 13-Inch iPad Hybrid? 8 Signs - Hardware - Desktops/PCs -
    Thanks for this article, good read. Also led me to the referenced Surface article:
    http://mobile.informationweek.com/12...905f2a7f7a5b/?
    10-12-2013 11:26 AM
  15. SwimSwim's Avatar
    The more I hear about this rumor (like in the aforementioned article), the more my anxiety grows.

    This hybrid model has yet to take off, but Apple already has an army of iZombies are their command, eagerly awaiting their next command from their leader. Sure, for now they all scoff at how ridiculous the notion of a hybrid is, hence their aversion to fine products like the Surface, but the second Tim Cook unveils this supposed hybrid, all bets are off. Everyone will instantly suffer amnesia, and rush out to buy this en masse. It will be praised as revolutionary and, should it run OS X apps, then people will praise Apple for their brilliance in bringing touch and desktop together in seamless harmony.

    We saw the exact same thing happen with iOS 7, everyone praising Apple for coming up with such an original and modern take on mobile computing. I fear that should Apple do this, it will be the final nail in the coffin for Microsoft. They'll still be around, of course, and continue making products. But just like Apple when Microsoft won the PC wars, Microsoft will only be around as a niche player, gaining no more than 5% market share, and that's if we're lucky.

    Hopefully Apple doesn't unveil this so soon. If they do plan on making it, hopefully they wait another year, that way Microsoft has an extra year to get the word about Surface 2 out and hopefully win over some market share before Apple tries to waltz in. It's a slippery slope, I just hope Tim Cook stands by what he said earlier this year.

    Perhaps I'm over reacting, but we must never underestimate the ignorance of the iSheep. They buy without even considering what it is. If Apple says they'll need it, they'll buy it (and don't get me wrong, Apple makes fine products, and they truly were great innovators in the past. It's just annoying how they've managed to be the subject of the most annoying, mindless cult of all time).
    WanderingTraveler and MikeSo like this.
    10-12-2013 04:09 PM
  16. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    Thanks for this article, good read. Also led me to the referenced Surface article:
    http://mobile.informationweek.com/12...905f2a7f7a5b/?
    Dear god, the mobile page looks awful on my laptop. Hang on, I'll get a proper link
    http://www.informationweek.com/tech-...chan/240161743

    Also, what makes this concerning to me is that the Surface, other convertible Windows PCs and this supposed Apple product represent a new device category, which means that it's a space where Microsoft doesn't dominate the market by default. They may be the de facto owners of the market now, but for now that's not much to brag about given the sales figures. It is very possible for someone like Apple to come along and sweep it out from under their feet.
    10-12-2013 04:18 PM
  17. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    The more I hear about this rumor (like in the aforementioned article), the more my anxiety grows.

    This hybrid model has yet to take off, but Apple already has an army of iZombies are their command, eagerly awaiting their next command from their leader. Sure, for now they all scoff at how ridiculous the notion of a hybrid is, hence their aversion to fine products like the Surface, but the second Tim Cook unveils this supposed hybrid, all bets are off. Everyone will instantly suffer amnesia, and rush out to buy this en masse. It will be praised as revolutionary and, should it run OS X apps, then people will praise Apple for their brilliance in bringing touch and desktop together in seamless harmony.

    We saw the exact same thing happen with iOS 7, everyone praising Apple for coming up with such an original and modern take on mobile computing. I fear that should Apple do this, it will be the final nail in the coffin for Microsoft. They'll still be around, of course, and continue making products. But just like Apple when Microsoft won the PC wars, Microsoft will only be around as a niche player, gaining no more than 5% market share, and that's if we're lucky.

    Hopefully Apple doesn't unveil this so soon. If they do plan on making it, hopefully they wait another year, that way Microsoft has an extra year to get the word about Surface 2 out and hopefully win over some market share before Apple tries to waltz in. It's a slippery slope, I just hope Tim Cook stands by what he said earlier this year.

    Perhaps I'm over reacting, but we must never underestimate the ignorance of the iSheep. They buy without even considering what it is. If Apple says they'll need it, they'll buy it (and don't get me wrong, Apple makes fine products, and they truly were great innovators in the past. It's just annoying how they've managed to be the subject of the most annoying, mindless cult of all time).
    If you believe that primary reason that people buy Apple products are because they are nothing more than iZombies and iSheep then you aren't seeing clearly what has transpired. I do see some people who buy the next iteration of Apple products. But... that isn't because they are mindless, but because they have had a track record of good experience with Apple products in the past...or know people who have. If you don't understand the power of customer satisfaction and customer loyalty then you won't understand they dynamics of consumerism... and are blind to your own pro-Microsoft bias.

    Love 'em or hate 'em, Apple did the hard work of building customer loyalty. They didn't have the predatory monopolistic power that Microsoft had to get Windows preloaded on over 95% of PCs sold. Apple has gained moment from a loyal customer base. That's how it works. You aren't going to win friends and influence people by accusing the very people (who need to be convinced to buy Microsoft) of being mindless idiots. I see chinks in the Apple armor... a hubris that is starting to be revealed in their Post-Steve Jobs products. But Microsoft won't be able to take advantage of that if they continue on in their own arrogant ways of, "if we build it they will buy it because we're Microsoft dammit!".

    Microsoft needs to build customer loyalty... particularly within the Surface customer base. So far they've poked a thumb in the eye of every RT purchaser who bought it at the original price. They've not offered anything to say "thank you" for buying an unproven product from a company with a poor track record of supporting their consumer products.

    They don't need to do anything for me, I bought the $199 RT/TouchCover bundle... that's all that it is worth to me. But there are others who paid well over $500 for that.

    You claim "everyone praising Apple" for iOS 7. That is hardly the reality of the situation. The Apple-centric forums are overflowing with the peasants armed with pitchforks and torches storming Cupertino because of the pitiful quality of iOS7 and the cartoonish "Fisher-Price My First Smartphone" looks.
    Christian Kallevig and ohgood like this.
    10-12-2013 04:30 PM
  18. Christian Kallevig's Avatar
    I agree completely. Apple is not my favorite company in the world, but their products have been consistently high quality in every way. People love Apple for good reasons, and while I do believe that there are many who have perhaps become blind to the rest of the technology world as a result of their love of Apple, but I see some of that on the Microsoft side too.

    Apple is not a company that can do no wrong though, and people are starting to see that Apple is doing very little to improve the value proposition of their products, and their one-size-fits-all approach to product design is becoming less and less acceptable now that so many different options are available elsewhere. They can absolutely be beaten in the market, but for Microsoft to pull it off they have to start acting more like an underdog and less like the giant mega-corporation they have become. The risks they have taken with Windows are a great start, but they are on shaky ground right now, and they've got to push hard to succeed. There really is no time to lose for them.

    iOS 7 is an opportunity for Microsoft. Here Apple has taken it's 'we know what you want better than you do' philosophy to ridiculous levels. Jony Ive is the absolute epitome of this, and it's not going to fly in software design, especially when his take on iOS is an inconsistent mess. I'm sure it will be improved with time, but Apple has lost some of its good will with people who don't unconditionally love them. The time to strike back is now.

    But Microsoft is too slow and too unprepared for this war. I don't know that they can ever be anything but a bit player moving forward.
    chezm likes this.
    10-12-2013 04:53 PM
  19. SwimSwim's Avatar
    If you believe that primary reason that people buy Apple products are because they are nothing more than iZombies and iSheep then you aren't seeing clearly what has transpired. I do see some people who buy the next iteration of Apple products. But... that isn't because they are mindless, but because they have had a track record of good experience with Apple products in the past...or know people who have. If you don't understand the power of customer satisfaction and customer loyalty then you won't understand they dynamics of consumerism... and are blind to your own pro-Microsoft bias.

    Love 'em or hate 'em, Apple did the hard work of building customer loyalty. They didn't have the predatory monopolistic power that Microsoft had to get Windows preloaded on over 95% of PCs sold. Apple has gained moment from a loyal customer base. That's how it works. You aren't going to win friends and influence people by accusing the very people (who need to be convinced to buy Microsoft) of being mindless idiots. I see chinks in the Apple armor... a hubris that is starting to be revealed in their Post-Steve Jobs products. But Microsoft won't be able to take advantage of that if they continue on in their own arrogant ways of, "if we build it they will buy it because we're Microsoft dammit!".

    Microsoft needs to build customer loyalty... particularly within the Surface customer base. So far they've poked a thumb in the eye of every RT purchaser who bought it at the original price. They've not offered anything to say "thank you" for buying an unproven product from a company with a poor track record of supporting their consumer products.

    They don't need to do anything for me, I bought the $199 RT/TouchCover bundle... that's all that it is worth to me. But there are others who paid well over $500 for that.

    You claim "everyone praising Apple" for iOS 7. That is hardly the reality of the situation. The Apple-centric forums are overflowing with the peasants armed with pitchforks and torches storming Cupertino because of the pitiful quality of iOS7 and the cartoonish "Fisher-Price My First Smartphone" looks.
    I reiterate that Apple does indeed make fine products. While OS X looks rather bland, I have always admired the very clean and polish look on some of the more recent generation Macbook Airs. Also, as I said before, Apple has in the past been a leading innovator. While lately they've been getting more stale, we mustn't forget if it weren't for Apple, the home PC might not exist. Until Apple introduced the iPhone, smartphones were just thought of as business devices, not a consumer products. Without the iPad, the tablet market would've been doomed to stay little niche devices that would never gain more than a 3% market share, and that's being optimistic.

    I did perhaps come across as a bit cynical, but I do believe in having choice. I like the idea of people being able to choose what's best for them (one disappointing thing about Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8: we don't get as much choice in that past [I.E: user selected defaults, OS is now more locked down for security, etc.]). My biggest gripe with Apple is just how annoying some of the fanboys are. If you can tell me a legitimate reason why iOS is best for you, I'll let you go in peace. I still want you to grab a Windows Phone, of course, but I can respect your decision.

    It's just that 90% of the people who own iPhones I know, when I ask them why they bought it, they're response is: "Well you know, because it's the best phone out there."

    Me, "Oh really? Care to explain why you have that opinion?"

    "Well, you know, because they're just the best. They've got the best camera and fastest phones and stuff. You know, they're just... Apple."

    I'm entirely genuine in that's pretty much the response I get. Now for someone who can explain, "I've got lots of money invested in the iTunes ecosystem, with all my music, movies and podcasts on there. Plus, iCloud just seamlessly syncs things across my iPhone and Macbook Air, and I've yet to incur any major hardware or software problems," then I can respect them.

    So I'll agree I can across a bit paranoid and cynical, but we mustn't forget how many people just buy Apple without actually considering their purchase, just because they have some inexplicable draw to it. When I got my iPad, I was in love, fully expecting to make the iPhone 4S my first smartphone. Then months later, I saw some early versions of Windows 8, and was very intrigued. But of course, it was a long ways off, so I ignored it and pressed on my iPhone 4S campaign.

    But then I saw the Lumia 900 go on sale, and instantly recognized it as the same Metro UI found in Windows 8. After some quick research, I was sold, and happily bought my first smartphone: The Nokia Lumia 900, and I've never looked back. I like it because the OS is fast, smooth and stable. It looks clean and modern, and SkyDrive integration is luxurious. I got a Lumia 1020 a few months ago because it has an amazing camera, and the benefits of WP8 over WP7 are not to be ignored. I'm soon going to be buying a Surface Pro 2 because I still have a few legacy programs I'd like to run, plus that Wacom stylus looks awesome for note taking and document mark up. The kickstand is kickass, and it's running Windows 8, and interface that I love.

    The biggest gripes I have with both Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 is lack of apps. It's improving, but we still have a long ways to go. There's also the fact some basic OS functionality has yet to be introduced, such as a notification center, separate sound profiles, improved NFC, proper fix for Other Storage, and many others. I personally am willing to look past that, however, because I just love the interface and functionality, Nokia has always made awesome devices, and Microsoft seems to know how to make a well designed tablet.

    See? I've been able to justify my reasoning for being a Microsoft fanboy. And if you like Android or iOS, then that's fine, I just want a reason for it, rather than you following the rest of the herd without putting any thought into what you want out of your device.
    10-12-2013 04:56 PM
  20. tgp's Avatar
    I think it's a bit harsh to call Apple fans "iZombies" or "iSheep". Maybe some of them are, but Apple has earned their reputation. Let me tell you something; Apple users put up with a lot less bugs & niggles than WP users do! The way some users here are all about Microsoft makes it appear like it's the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not any more of an Apple fan than I am a Microsoft fan, so I'm in the middle here. But the way I see it the fanboys of each are roughly similar.

    I use both Windows Phones and iPhone. I much prefer the WP over the iPhone except for one thing, and that one thing is unfortunately a deal breaker. Its functionality is crippled by an immature OS with a very poor app ecosystem to back it up.

    Microsoft came into its fortunes with Windows & Office products, which is still its bread & butter. Just because those products are the best and most popular doesn't mean all of Microsoft's products are the best in their respective divisions. Their mobile division has been a big money pit. Separate that from the rest of Microsoft, and I bet they would've been out of business a long time ago. Interestingly enough, it was reported here that Microsoft spent more on marketing the Surface RT than the total revenue ended up being. (The number is somewhat deceptive though because the marketing budget included Windows 8, not just the RT). MS produced, by rough estimates, 8 million Surface RTs, and sold 25% of them. Their 3 year old WP's market share is still around 4% worldwide. Apple & Google each sell many times the amount of smartphones & tablets that Microsoft does.

    I actually wonder why Microsoft keeps with the mobile world. Do they see it as the paradigm of the future, so much so that they wouldn't be able to survive on Windows & Office? 90% of computers worldwide run Windows, and virtually every business in the world uses Office. I don't see that changing anytime soon. I would think Microsoft could concentrate on what they're good at, the PC world, and leave the mobile world to Apple & Google, who proved that they're good at it.

    Was Microsoft expecting a better reception to their mobile products? Buying Nokia proves that they're in it for the long haul, but if something doesn't change soon I would see the stockholders becoming involved.
    10-12-2013 06:50 PM
  21. chezm's Avatar
    It funny how the whole debate is Microsoft vs Apple, when in reality the battle around me is more Apple/Microsoft vs Android. I don't hear many debates in my technology career, most users like both but have a preference...thats all. Its the Android fans that step in and battle out using market share and rooting...funny world.
    10-12-2013 07:01 PM
  22. slowboy920's Avatar
    I think it's a good idea for Microsoft to start building hardware due to the fact that their partners were not building anything worth while. People have been accustomed to the cheap hardware produced by their partners and now that Microsoft and other partners are charging more for their products for higher quality products. Apple on the other hand has had total control of their products and does good job with quality control. As others have stated, Microsoft see this as an issue and wants to push its partners to build better products. The good thing about the US is that you can challenge anyone no matter how big or small. Apple is the prime example
    10-12-2013 07:09 PM
  23. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I think it's a bit harsh to call Apple fans "iZombies" or "iSheep". Maybe some of them are, but Apple has earned their reputation. Let me tell you something; Apple users put up with a lot less bugs & niggles than WP users do! The way some users here are all about Microsoft makes it appear like it's the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not any more of an Apple fan than I am a Microsoft fan, so I'm in the middle here. But the way I see it the fanboys of each are roughly similar.

    I use both Windows Phones and iPhone. I much prefer the WP over the iPhone except for one thing, and that one thing is unfortunately a deal breaker. Its functionality is crippled by an immature OS with a very poor app ecosystem to back it up.

    Microsoft came into its fortunes with Windows & Office products, which is still its bread & butter. Just because those products are the best and most popular doesn't mean all of Microsoft's products are the best in their respective divisions. Their mobile division has been a big money pit. Separate that from the rest of Microsoft, and I bet they would've been out of business a long time ago. Interestingly enough, it was reported here that Microsoft spent more on marketing the Surface RT than the total revenue ended up being. (The number is somewhat deceptive though because the marketing budget included Windows 8, not just the RT). MS produced, by rough estimates, 8 million Surface RTs, and sold 25% of them. Their 3 year old WP's market share is still around 4% worldwide. Apple & Google each sell many times the amount of smartphones & tablets that Microsoft does.

    I actually wonder why Microsoft keeps with the mobile world. Do they see it as the paradigm of the future, so much so that they wouldn't be able to survive on Windows & Office? 90% of computers worldwide run Windows, and virtually every business in the world uses Office. I don't see that changing anytime soon. I would think Microsoft could concentrate on what they're good at, the PC world, and leave the mobile world to Apple & Google, who proved that they're good at it.

    Was Microsoft expecting a better reception to their mobile products? Buying Nokia proves that they're in it for the long haul, but if something doesn't change soon I would see the stockholders becoming involved.
    First off, I never said all Apple users are iSheep, I just meant that Apple has enough diehard fans that, should they release a 13" iPad, it will already sell millions on day 1. Of course not all of them are fanboys, and each OS has it own cult like people (I would consider myself very borderline, my mood for the day mostly determines how severe my fanboy-ism is), it's just that Apple seems to have the largest amount of them.

    And Apple is far from being without bugs, seeing as they've had their fair share of bugs over the years. Heck, right now, the iPhone 5S is suffering from a Blue Screen of Death bug for many apps (oh, the irony). So to say Apple user don't have to suffer with bugs is totally false. Hell, iOS 5 suffered (and still does, seeing as the bug was only patched with iOS 6, so anyone running iOS 5 can still exploit this) an in app-purchase bug where you could use a proxy server set up by someone in Russia, then log in the Apple Store with completely fake, made-up-on-the-spot credentials, and get as many in app purchases you wanted for free.

    And I'm genuinely curious, how is WP immature? I will agree there are a couple irritating things, such as lack of separate sound profiles, no notification center or quick access to common settings, but for the most part, it's a solid OS. The apps situation is a bit disappointing, but it's rapidly improving (right on par with initial Android's growth, which is very promising). Also, lest we not forget that Windows Phone is currently the fastest growing OS worldwide, and it's especially popular in places like India and Mexico.

    And yes, the mobile division needs some work, but it started years behind the competitors, so it's come a long way in that time, no? Especially tablets, seeing as the Surface line-up is one of Microsoft's few ventures into hardware. The fact that on their first try they got so much right impresses me, and the second generation models only improve upon the first. They still could do with some more improvements (especially in pricing, not including the Touch and Type Covers is killing them), but considering how new they are to the market when compared to their competitors, not bad at all.

    And yes, the Surface RT had meh sales, and Microsoft ordered far more to be produced than what was selling (the folks in Redmond apparently go too optimistic about it initially selling out), so due to all the extra inventory, they were out $900 million. Which is a bummer, because the Surface RT and Pro combined only made $853 million in revenue, and that's not even factoring in how much it cost them to produce the Pro units. So yes, a big failure. Hopefully they learned their lesson and won't produce far more than what's in demand.

    As for the Windows Phone marketshare, it's actually up to 7% worldwide, I believe, and in many markets, it's actually higher (Mexico, it's 12%, and again I say, it's also popular in India). We musn't forget how late to the party Microsoft was, and I reiterate the fact that Windows Phone is currently the fastest growing mobile OS worldwide. We've got a ways to go, but it's catching on.

    And why wouldn't Microsoft be investing themselves in mobile? Is it not obvious the computing landscape is shifting in that direction? Sure, Microsoft is dominant in the desktop category, but in 10 years, that category might not even exist anymore. All the rage is for phones and tablet, PC sales are down, while mobile devices are going nowhere but up. Microsoft has to take action now, and try to gain some presence in the mobile landscape. It's currently dominated by iOS and Android, if they waited before they pushed out a version of Windows optimized for touch, it would be too late. The time to act is now, Microsoft was planning for the future. And while it was met with poor reception, Microsoft didn't have much a choice if they wanted to stay in the game.

    Microsoft is keeping up with what they're good at, by designing the Surface line-up for productivity. They can't just leave things to Apple and Google. Again, we're in a "Post-PC" era, PC sales are only going to go down, mobile is only going to go up. If Microsoft doesn't get into mobile, they'll be extinct when the last PC is finally sold.

    I'm glad Microsoft bought Nokia. Nokia has shown true dedication and devotion to Windows Phone, and now that soon enough both Nokia's hardware unit and Microsoft's software unit will be combined, they'll be able to push out even better products with even greater speed and efficiency. As you said, it proves Microsoft is in this for the long haul, which only makes sense. I'll say this one last time: Microsoft has to be in it for the long haul, because that's what the future is, mobile devices. So, read this last part in a Steve Ballmer voice: Mobile, mobile, mobile!!!
    chezm likes this.
    10-12-2013 08:05 PM
  24. squire777's Avatar
    People are getting a little overly dramatic for a product that hasn't even been released yet. You can hold off on your MS and Surface obituaries for the time being. I remember the MB Air was supposed to make the traditional laptop obsolete but it never happened. If they do release a 13" hybrid it will only cannibalize sales of their own products most likely.

    And i do think that Apple fans have the herd mentality more than MS fans or Google fans. Most people I know who are Apple fans will buy the latest Apple product even though they have the previous version of the same thing. If you put an Apple logo on a turd they'll rave on about how great of a product it really is.

    So let's see - Apple copied much of the metro style, Apple want to get into the hybrid game (MS there already), Apple want an OS for both mobile and desktop (see Windows 8)... so who is really ahead in the game right now?
    chezm and psudotechzealot like this.
    10-12-2013 11:49 PM
  25. despertador's Avatar
    Full-blown PCs seem so easily dismissed nowadays. My rig is frowning in sadness :(
    10-13-2013 12:08 AM
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