Microsoft should be afraid of a 13" iPad
- Thread starter Christian Kallevig
- Start date
inteller
Banned
I have a Yoga 13....13" does not work as a handheld tablet. Now propped up in a stand configuration to watch videos it is fine, but it is very clumsy to hold. Anything bigger than 11.6 is. The Yoga 11 is better for handheld...but then that is getting into Surface Pro territory and I'd rather just get the best if going that route.
Okay, I should make it absolutely clear- I personally think the idea of a 13" iPad sounds every bit as dumb as the idea of the original iPad did to me. I though nobody would have any use for something large enough to be a computer, but without the capabilities of one. Turns out a lot of people out there were just aching to get away from their PCs and the iPad was a welcome change.
So even if I personally think that 13" is too large for a tablet, and encroaching on laptop territory... Who's to say? If Apple does this, it won't be a half-baked product. Whatever OS it runs, it will make sense for the device it is on, and there will be plenty of high quality software on it out of the gate. It will likely be 'good enough' for a number of people. My personal experience says that many people, especially people of an older generation, but also plenty young people really don't know or understand how to use their computers beyond a few basic tasks. The power of a full PC is wasted on many and the added complexity only serves to confuse. For those kinds of people, a device like this may seem very appealing.
Anyway, I honestly don't know what would happen if Apple did this, but it's definitely going after the same market as the RT versions of Surface, and that could present a problem for Microsoft.
So even if I personally think that 13" is too large for a tablet, and encroaching on laptop territory... Who's to say? If Apple does this, it won't be a half-baked product. Whatever OS it runs, it will make sense for the device it is on, and there will be plenty of high quality software on it out of the gate. It will likely be 'good enough' for a number of people. My personal experience says that many people, especially people of an older generation, but also plenty young people really don't know or understand how to use their computers beyond a few basic tasks. The power of a full PC is wasted on many and the added complexity only serves to confuse. For those kinds of people, a device like this may seem very appealing.
Anyway, I honestly don't know what would happen if Apple did this, but it's definitely going after the same market as the RT versions of Surface, and that could present a problem for Microsoft.
jlzimmerman
Member
And they will. A 13" inch tablet is direct irony of what a tablet is supposed to be, but Apple will do well with it because "ERHMAGERD it's apple!" I've touched our 4th gen iPad twice since I bought my Surface. And thinking back on it now I frequently think "We paid $500 for this?"
WillysJeepMan
Active member
As I've said before, the Surface RT works better IMO as a netbook replacement rather than as an alternative tablet to the iPad. The RT works more naturally with a TypeCover or TouchCover. The 16:9 aspect ratio is not optimal for tablet use... especially the onscreen keyboard. In portrait mode the keys are too small, in landscape mode the keyboard covers too much of the screen. The capacitive sensor apparently has a lower resolution than the iPad's... making capacitive stylus use virtually unusable, though fine with a fingertip.
Even though I only bought my RT a month ago (refurb bundle deal) I've been a fan since day-1. So I'm not ragging on the RT as some mindless hater. I think it is terrific but more directly competes with netbooks than the iPad.
Actually, it was the Surface Pro that had me puzzled. The Pro also has a 10.6" screen, and although it supports legacy x86 apps, it is thicker than what people have come to expect in a tablet and it has a fan. The price put it in the range of an ultrabook with the screen of a netbook. It's very difficult to get serious work (spreadsheets, graphic art, etc.) done on a 10.6" screen... possible, but not comfortable. A Surface Pro with a 13" screen at the current price would be killer, IMO.
If Apple produces a 13" tablet, I do not think that it is simply going to be a 13" iPad. It will probably have some new version of OSX that supports iOS apps. And just like when the iPad was first announced, haters will make "maxiPad" jokes while Apple pushes towards the release date. Then when it's released, these same haters will be stunned by consumer responsiveness and then claim that they are simply "iSheep" who don't think for themselves. This is one reason why Apple has been so successful. Because people refuse or are unable to see the value in what Apple produces if it doesn't fit their particular use case scenario. Pundits said that Apple's iPad would probably come out near the $1000 price range. When the entry level came in at roughly half that, other companies freaked. It caught them flatfooted and caused many of them, including Microsoft, to scrap their (at the time) current plans and start from scratch.
If Apple produces a 13" tablet capable of running a converged OS (OSX/iOS) that in appearance looks simply like a larger iPad and priced at/below Macbook Air pricing... then it will be a runaway success IMO.
chezm
New member
It depends on its cost, and knowing Apple they will overprice it at first to see the reception. But the fact that they haven't talked or mentioned a OSx touch screen leaves a desired hope more than reality at this point. I very much bet on Oct 22 they will announce a iPad mini retina and iPad 5...nothing evolutionary.
JerseySal
New member
Based on what I've seen, Lion was supposed to be the last version of OSX. The follow on OS11 was to support iOS apps and OSX apps. Providing a converged platform. But Android adoption took Apple by surprise and they had to regroup. I don't know how far out on their roadmap this convergence now is, but if Apple announces a 13" iPad, I would not be surprised that it runs both OSX and iOS apps.
You heard it here first.
Nothing we hear about Apple is a first.
squire777
New member
The 13" Windows 8.1 hybrids and convertibles that are coming out soon would probably be a more useful device than a 13" iPad
fatclue_98
Retired Moderator
WinFan1
New member
MikeSo
New member
I agree. However... When I spent half an hour with the original iPad in the store, doing a whole bunch of things with it, I concluded that it was crap, too heavy, too limited and would flop. It was just a ridiculous product that I couldn't see any use for, especially at that price point and compared to much more powerful laptops for less.
Ever since, I've stopped commenting on the viability in the marketplace of tech products...
A few more thoughts:
This convertible PC market is new and has yet to take off in any meaningful way. Apple launching a competing produce here is different than anything else they could be working on in that sense. It is a market Microsoft has entered and bet a significant amount on, but also a market they could very easily lose.
Also, I think I should clarify what I mean when I say "PC replacement". You see, PCs as we know them today will likely never go away completely as there will always be people who need the functionality they offer. But that market is going to shrink substantially as 80% of what they do becomes possible on other, simpler devices. A PC replacement isn't the only computer for someone who needs a full PC, but rather for someone who doesn't. They will be able to browse the web, run apps, do word processing and every other basic task most people need. But they won't be heavy multiastkng machines, nor will they offer much in the way of file management outside of basic functions. In fact, most of your data will live on the cloud with these devices. That is the future.
But, as I said, PCs will not go away. They will just become something for geeks and professionals rather than anybody and everybody.
This convertible PC market is new and has yet to take off in any meaningful way. Apple launching a competing produce here is different than anything else they could be working on in that sense. It is a market Microsoft has entered and bet a significant amount on, but also a market they could very easily lose.
Also, I think I should clarify what I mean when I say "PC replacement". You see, PCs as we know them today will likely never go away completely as there will always be people who need the functionality they offer. But that market is going to shrink substantially as 80% of what they do becomes possible on other, simpler devices. A PC replacement isn't the only computer for someone who needs a full PC, but rather for someone who doesn't. They will be able to browse the web, run apps, do word processing and every other basic task most people need. But they won't be heavy multiastkng machines, nor will they offer much in the way of file management outside of basic functions. In fact, most of your data will live on the cloud with these devices. That is the future.
But, as I said, PCs will not go away. They will just become something for geeks and professionals rather than anybody and everybody.
So iOS is not x86-compatible? It's not? Then I don't care if they release a 400-inch iPad. It will still be an iPad.
SwimSwim
New member
It's an interesting, complicated, concept.
Yes, the world laughed at the original iPad, yet what do ya know? It became a hit and revived a market category no one ever thought would succeed. However, despite that, Apple has had their fair share flops over the years, and it potentially sounds like this could be one.
It's not much of a PC replacement just running iOS. Sure, iOS can be updated to make better use of the extra screen real-estate, but much like the Surface 2, it's still running a mobile OS. It may be able to fill the roles of many aspects of your life, but you're still occasionally going to need that laptop or desktop. This is further reinforced by the fact the iPad has no peripheral support, only prints via their own, proprietary system, no Flash support (but I will cut Apple some slack in that the world really ought to have moved on to HTML5 by now), lacking full Office, no proper file system, etc. etc.
Let's not mention the price. Knowing Apple, something like this will likely start at a good $600-700, just a few Benjamins short of an entry level Surface Pro. And of course, that $600-700 will only get you a 16GB or 32GB configuration, depending on what they start with. And with no usb for external hard drives or SD card support, you're stuck with whatever memory configuration you choose. Hell, the iPad already costs $800 for 128GB, so how much would it cost to use this as a PC replacement? Oh, and let's not forget how much more expensive this will be if it runs OS X.
Speaking of which, if it runs OS X, I think that kinda defeats the purpose. Something I like about the Surface Pro is that it's nice, small and portable for when out-and-about, you know, so you can use it like a tablet. Then, when you're ready to really get some work done, just plug in that external monitor (or, come January, just place it in your docking station) and get working away, right on the big screen. A 13" device kinda defeats the whole purpose of a hybrid model. It's a bit big and unwieldy for use as a tablet, yet too small to be a decent PC replacement.
One thing's for sure, should Apple come to market with this, the media will praise it and everyone will flip out over it, forgetting Microsoft is gearing up to release their Surface line refresh. If it does turn out to be real, it could very well be a runaway success, simply because, as we know, the iSheep blindly follow what Tim Cook and all the rest tell them. Guess we have to wait until Oct 22, for now. Hmm, won't that be an exciting day... Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2 go on sale, big Nokia announcement, and Apple will be releasing their next waste of money (admittedly though, the Surface prices are a little steep, so lowering their cost just a little bit could go a long way).
October certainly will be a month to remember in the world of tech, won't it?
Yes, the world laughed at the original iPad, yet what do ya know? It became a hit and revived a market category no one ever thought would succeed. However, despite that, Apple has had their fair share flops over the years, and it potentially sounds like this could be one.
It's not much of a PC replacement just running iOS. Sure, iOS can be updated to make better use of the extra screen real-estate, but much like the Surface 2, it's still running a mobile OS. It may be able to fill the roles of many aspects of your life, but you're still occasionally going to need that laptop or desktop. This is further reinforced by the fact the iPad has no peripheral support, only prints via their own, proprietary system, no Flash support (but I will cut Apple some slack in that the world really ought to have moved on to HTML5 by now), lacking full Office, no proper file system, etc. etc.
Let's not mention the price. Knowing Apple, something like this will likely start at a good $600-700, just a few Benjamins short of an entry level Surface Pro. And of course, that $600-700 will only get you a 16GB or 32GB configuration, depending on what they start with. And with no usb for external hard drives or SD card support, you're stuck with whatever memory configuration you choose. Hell, the iPad already costs $800 for 128GB, so how much would it cost to use this as a PC replacement? Oh, and let's not forget how much more expensive this will be if it runs OS X.
Speaking of which, if it runs OS X, I think that kinda defeats the purpose. Something I like about the Surface Pro is that it's nice, small and portable for when out-and-about, you know, so you can use it like a tablet. Then, when you're ready to really get some work done, just plug in that external monitor (or, come January, just place it in your docking station) and get working away, right on the big screen. A 13" device kinda defeats the whole purpose of a hybrid model. It's a bit big and unwieldy for use as a tablet, yet too small to be a decent PC replacement.
One thing's for sure, should Apple come to market with this, the media will praise it and everyone will flip out over it, forgetting Microsoft is gearing up to release their Surface line refresh. If it does turn out to be real, it could very well be a runaway success, simply because, as we know, the iSheep blindly follow what Tim Cook and all the rest tell them. Guess we have to wait until Oct 22, for now. Hmm, won't that be an exciting day... Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2 go on sale, big Nokia announcement, and Apple will be releasing their next waste of money (admittedly though, the Surface prices are a little steep, so lowering their cost just a little bit could go a long way).
October certainly will be a month to remember in the world of tech, won't it?
I think the real question we should all be asking is this: how dumb will 'iBook' users look when they use this thing as a camera out in public?
chezm
New member
I wouldn't go as far as to say iPads a waste of money, but more a portable device that performs the functions of our cell phone on a bigger screen....without the voice support (until VoLTE does take off). It will succeed and we will all whine because it really sucks how easy they sell without the hassle. Dammit lol.
SwimSwim
New member
Ha ha! Too true! I always die a little on the inside when I see someone using an iPad (or any tablet, for that matter) as a camera, especially when I see people using an iPad as their camera, when they literally have an iPhone (which doesn't look ridiculous AND has a better camera!) in their purse/pocket. Yes, I've seen this before, and really just wanted to knock that tablet out of their hand and tell them to use the decent camera they've got on 'em.
SwimSwim
New member
True, worthless is an over statement. It's especially nice for kids, who care not for productivity. The iPad is indeed for that. Big games market, lots of videos and book on iTunes, plus while I don't think Windows 8 is hard (people are just stubborn), the iPad is a little bit easier to pick up on. Granted, the less features and power your product has, the easier it is to streamline what it does have, but that's besides the point.
So iPads aren't worthless, but they are expensive. But not much a leg to stand on here, seeing as I'm finding myself buying a Surface Pro 2 in the coming weeks, feeling a tad bit of regret, looking at how this will consume my summer job money. Sigh, it's great that Microsoft is following Apple's model of being a hardware and services company, but did they really have to mimic the very high cost, too?
chezm
New member
Tru dat. I work full time and still need to ensure my Pro 2 investment makes sense to spend so much money. I'm not the type that buys new hardware every year, im more a 5-7 year kinda person (my wife's laptop is 8 years old, my PC is 4 years old)...so I am researching as much but know Pro 2 is what I want.
Agreed , iPads aren't cheap...but they are built well with beautiful retina display that pops out with colors. I am a little upset that some reviews of Pro 2 testing state resolution hasn't been improved from P1...i hope that's not the case.
SwimSwim
New member
Nope, no resolution bump. Same 1080p screen as before. If you're a pixel peeper, then this might very well be too low of a pixel density for you. However, for most this ought to be fine. I've seen it in stores, and I thought it looked fantastic.
Personal mileage may vary.
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