11-29-2013 08:39 PM
38 12
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  1. coip's Avatar
    I plan on getting the pen tomorrow and will report back. I had a convertible with an active digitizer in 2006-2009 and loved it. I've been using a capacitive stylus with the w500 and I'll be happy to go back to active.
    Like Eric I've never had a pen/stylus, but it seems to be all the rage this shopping season. What kind of things do you use it for? I'm not an artist so I don't need to draw. It could be semi-useful for drawing diagrams and other sorts of things in OneNote if I were taking notes on a lecture or something, but would a digitizer really be that much better than a stylus for that? And other than that, what are we missing out on?
    11-09-2013 07:14 PM
  2. stephen_az's Avatar
    The Wi-Fi connectivity problem seems to be fixed already with a driver update. The color rendering problem is being addressed, but the solution is not ideal (just a power management tweak that will likely affect battery life). The real concers are that 1) this got past Quality Control in the first place, but even more so 2) that whenever you call Lenovo to ask them about it they all claim ignorance. Telling consumers they've never heard of this problem and thus making the consumers feel like they're wrong when in fact they are aware of the problem is a dickish move on Lenovo's part.

    It's quite a shame because it is otherwise an almost perfect machine. Still, I'm looking at other options now:
    Dell Venue 11 Pro
    Dell XPS 12
    Sony Tap 11
    Surface Pro 2
    HP Split 2
    Toshiba Satellite
    Regarding your list of alternatives, putting a Dell on any list is asking for problems. The XPS 11 is a new and innovative design which means it will be really clever and plagued with quality control issues that will never end. That brings up the XPS 12 - the first Dell innovation. It has numerous problems and Dell will drag you out as long as possible before honoring their warranty. Yes, I do own one and regret the purchase every day. I would sell it at a loss on craigslist but I don't want to dump it on someone else. Essential problems include: wifi drops; intermittent touchscreen freezes; image ghosting; runaway fan speeds when still cool; and overly sensitive touch pad. These are all common problems and the display issues render it unusable at times as either a high resolution or touchscreen device. As for the Sony hybrid, it is a nice device with poor battery life. The HP split models, on the other hand, are buggy and laughably heavy. Regarding Toshiba, if they invested the effort in tablets that they have in lightweight laptops (the Portege line), they would be a great option, but they still treat tablets as if they are an afterthought - that goes for most of their Android tablets as well. Quite frankly, the only product on your list that would be an all around choice is Surface Pro 2, although it is annoyingly pricey, and in short supply.

    With all that said though, you really should stop misrepresenting Lenovo's "fix" for the supposed color issue. While that might have a minimal impact on battery life, it is a perfectly legitimate resolution. Essentially, it amounts to a color calibration by shifting intensity. People could probably do it themselves manually or with the aid of a few pieces of available software. Photographers have been doing it for years to color correct monitors. It also does not mean Lenovo has abandoned quality control or that they used cheap parts. Of all the companies/products you listed, in my experience, Lenovo and Microsoft have the best customer support. Dell, again, is a miserable experience with lost calls, part delays, and long holds on the phone to someone on the Indian subcontinent - that, BTW, is their premium XPS support. As a point of reference, when the XPS 12's screen failed on day 35 after purchase, it took 11 days for Dell to send the onsite technician for next day support. If you look at independent consumer complaint forums you will see that is not unique. HP and Toshiba are both acceptable for customer service but I have had reliability issues. I have not owned a Sony computer but they do also not appear to be the mark of quality they were at one time.
    11-09-2013 08:53 PM
  3. coip's Avatar
    With all that said though, you really should stop misrepresenting Lenovo's "fix" for the supposed color issue. While that might have a minimal impact on battery life, it is a perfectly legitimate resolution. Essentially, it amounts to a color calibration by shifting intensity. People could probably do it themselves manually or with the aid of a few pieces of available software. Photographers have been doing it for years to color correct monitors. It also does not mean Lenovo has abandoned quality control or that they used cheap parts. Of all the companies/products you listed, in my experience, Lenovo and Microsoft have the best customer support. Dell, again, is a miserable experience with lost calls, part delays, and long holds on the phone to someone on the Indian subcontinent - that, BTW, is their premium XPS support. As a point of reference, when the XPS 12's screen failed on day 35 after purchase, it took 11 days for Dell to send the onsite technician for next day support. If you look at independent consumer complaint forums you will see that is not unique. HP and Toshiba are both acceptable for customer service but I have had reliability issues. I have not owned a Sony computer but they do also not appear to be the mark of quality they were at one time.
    I'm not misrepresenting their fix. Their solution is to recalibrate the Lenovo Energy Manager so that it boosts up the yellow performance. I tried it out, comparing the default settings, their new settings, and a different Lenovo device and I found that the default settings are awful, the fix makes it better, but it's still bad compared to what it should be. Is it adequate enough? We don't know yet because Lenovo has given no information on the following variables:
    1. What affect will it have on battery life for a machine that already doesn't have good battery life (you say it will be minimal, but I want to see benchmark tests and results);
    2. If this fix is totally dependent on Lenovo's proprietary software, what happens if we change operating systems? Will they continue updating it when Windows 9 and 10 launch? If not, will the display revert back to puke green?

    You say otherwise but I disagree: this is a huge mark on Lenovo's quality control record. There is just no way this screen should've gotten past preliminary testing let alone final quality control and shipment to retail. It's that noticeable. More frustrating is their response to the issue. You say they have great customer service. I don't think any company that lies to its customers is very great. This is a well-known problem: the thread on Lenovo's own page is up to 80 pages now. This problem is 23 days old but if you call the sales department, they'll lie to you and tell you there is no problem or that the problem has been fixed or that the problem was isolated to one shipment. All of that is untrue. If you call technical support they say that they've never heard of this problem, that this is the first call they've gotten about it, etc. I've called tech support 5 times and they all denied there was a problem. None of that is acceptable by any company. I'm just vocal because I'm really upset: I put off other purchases and waited months for this device, I was quite excited about it as it seemed perfect, and now there is this very noticeable problem that the company trying to sweep under the rug. It's been very frustrating.

    Thank you for your input on the Dell XPS. I was considering the XPS 12, but look into those problems more now. I agree that the Surface Pro 2 is definitely the best built machine. I love the Surface line (I have the Surface RT). I was hoping for a larger screen (liked the Yoga 2 Pro's 13.3" one), though. We'll see. There are a lot of great devices out there this season but none of them completely pull away from the others. All have pros and cons.
    11-09-2013 09:29 PM
  4. electricbopeep's Avatar
    Like Eric I've never had a pen/stylus, but it seems to be all the rage this shopping season. What kind of things do you use it for? I'm not an artist so I don't need to draw. It could be semi-useful for drawing diagrams and other sorts of things in OneNote if I were taking notes on a lecture or something, but would a digitizer really be that much better than a stylus for that? And other than that, what are we missing out on?
    The main benefit a digitizer offers for me is palm rejection- meaning that you can rest your wrist/hand on the screen of the device as you're writing and the pen won't be distracted, as it would be with a capacitive stylus. depending on your writing style, this is really helpful for note taking and drawing (since writing while holding your hand above the surface can feel unnatural), especially with 11" or larger screens.

    As far as other applications, yes, note-taking, annotating docs and images, especially involving formulas, diagrams and things of that nature are things where a digitizer would provide a benefit in terms of palm rejection and accuracy/smoothness. The latter makes for easier character recognition, especially in programs where you convert text after it's entered. A digitizer also often has an eraser and other contextual functions built into buttons on the pen that make the writing experience more enjoyable. Pressure sensitivity is another benefit, but that mostly comes into play with drawing and graphic design.

    for the most part though, if you don't mind altering your writing style (lifting your palm of the screen) and are just doing basic note taking every now and then, a capacitive stylus should do the job. there are some really, really good mesh ones out there that provide a better experience than the popular rubber ones.
    coip likes this.
    11-10-2013 08:11 AM
  5. El Jinete's Avatar
    Electicbopeep,

    Thanks for the information! I'm glad to hear you like it because I ordered the Vaio flip on Saturday. It does seem perfect for my needs other than the fan but I'm hoping it won't be too bad. I'm glad to know it has a silent mode that could help some if it's an issue.

    After your post I looked into the Thinkpad Yoga coming out the end of December. I love Thinkpads and thought it could be a good option. It looks nice but it is over 1 pound heavier than the Flip and it has a smaller screen. The battery is a little longer though. The lower weight and larger screen have convinced me to stick with the Flip. I look forward to hearing what you think of the Stylus! Thanks.


    Sent from my RM-877_nam_att_205 using Tapatalk
    electricbopeep likes this.
    11-10-2013 11:20 AM
  6. fwaits's Avatar
    Official BIOS and Energy Management fix is out for those that care.

    BIOS Update & Lenovo Energy Management for Windows 8.1 (64-bit) - Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro

    Noticeable improvement and for me looks great. To be fair I don't do any graphic intensive work that requires extreme color calibration, but the yellows look fine to me now, and not anything that would drive me to return the device. It's been awesome for me. No other issues on my end or for the couple others so far that I've bought for customers at work. Wi-Fi has been solid.
    11-18-2013 07:07 PM
  7. DustinM22's Avatar
    As fwaits posted there is now a fix for the screen color and wi-fi! I have tested it on my Lenovo Yoga Pro 2 and it works. It is a good thing for Lenovo it works too or I would be returning it and not recommending it to ANYONE! Another suggestion is to go to change advanced power settings> Display >enable adaptive brightness and turn it off. I only disabled when plugged in and allowed it to run while on battery, I figure it will help conserve battery. This will radically increase the brightness of the screen to what you would normally expect to see. I can now say this is honestly one of the best ultrabooks on the market for specs, price and support.
    11-20-2013 03:11 PM
  8. coip's Avatar
    I got the fix and I wasn't very impressed with it. The yellows still look like crap. But, that said, overall the Yoga 2 Pro is just awesome so I'm keeping it despite the flaws (and despite the fact that I am not impressed with my first experience buying a Lenovo computer). Clementine Orange model for the win.
    11-23-2013 07:27 PM
  9. electricbopeep's Avatar
    I got the fix and I wasn't very impressed with it. The yellows still look like crap. But, that said, overall the Yoga 2 Pro is just awesome so I'm keeping it despite the flaws (and despite the fact that I am not impressed with my first experience buying a Lenovo computer). Clementine Orange model for the win.
    im glad it worked out for you (and im jealous that you're now in possession of a clementine orange laptop)! I watched Lisa at mobiletechreview's take on it yesterday and she seemed impressed overall and said that the update hadn't adversely affected battery life. How many hours are you getting? Also, did you get the 11 or 13 in (when I finally took the plunge with buying my VAIO, the 11in yoga still wasn't available through Lenovo)? I'm have a couple of people who are looking for this type of device and it seems like I'd be able to recommend the yoga to the them. The price with the current built-in discounts from Lenovo is pretty appealing and im guessing there might be more price cuts next week.
    11-24-2013 07:16 AM
  10. coip's Avatar
    im glad it worked out for you (and im jealous that you're now in possession of a clementine orange laptop)! I watched Lisa at mobiletechreview's take on it yesterday and she seemed impressed overall and said that the update hadn't adversely affected battery life. How many hours are you getting? Also, did you get the 11 or 13 in (when I finally took the plunge with buying my VAIO, the 11in yoga still wasn't available through Lenovo)? I'm have a couple of people who are looking for this type of device and it seems like I'd be able to recommend the yoga to the them. The price with the current built-in discounts from Lenovo is pretty appealing and im guessing there might be more price cuts next week.
    I got the Yoga 2 Pro, which is the 13" one. The 11" one (11S) does not have the yellow problem--it renders colors fine. On the Yoga 2 Pro, after the fix, for normal usage, I'm getting a battery life of 4 hours on maximum performance and 6.5 hours on minimum performance, which is not as good as other ultrabooks in its class.
    11-24-2013 11:30 AM
  11. electricbopeep's Avatar
    I got the Yoga 2 Pro, which is the 13" one. The 11" one (11S) does not have the yellow problem--it renders colors fine. On the Yoga 2 Pro, after the fix, for normal usage, I'm getting a battery life of 4 hours on maximum performance and 6.5 hours on minimum performance, which is not as good as other ultrabooks in its class.



    thanks! I'd be interested to know how many hours you can eek out on a
    low performance.

    fyi there is a yoga 2 pro 11 in (with haswell) but it seems Lenovo still hasn't launched it on their website. Best buy has had it for over a month now, though





    Sent from my Lumia 920 using Tapatalk
    11-25-2013 06:03 AM
  12. coip's Avatar
    thanks! I'd be interested to know how many hours you can eek out on a
    low performance.

    fyi there is a yoga 2 pro 11 in (with haswell) but it seems Lenovo still hasn't launched it on their website. Best buy has had it for over a month now,
    Sorry, by "minimum" performance I meant low performance. I only did one test for each (high and low performance). Neither was very scientifically rigorous but should provide a general idea. I just used them both how I would use them for real: reading the Web, watching videos, remote desktop, Skyping, playing music, etc. For me the range was 4 to 6.5 hours.

    I've played with the Yoga 11S in Best Buy. The screen on it is gorgeous: it renders colors just fine, unlike the Yoga 2 Pro. If you're looking for an 11" 2-in-1, I'd recommend it.

    Also, just in case it helps someone, but because of the Yoga 2 Pro's ridiculous resolution, I had some problems connecting it to an external monitor (most external monitors have a maximum resolution of 1920x1080, much lower than the Yoga 2 Pro's 3200x1800). Basically, the solution is that you have to drop down the resolution on the Yoga 2 Pro to match that of the external monitor or it can create some consistency problems.
    electricbopeep likes this.
    11-26-2013 02:17 AM
  13. coip's Avatar
    I just wanted to add that I recently started using the Yoga 2 Pro's Bluetooth feature and have had all sorts of problems. I checked Lenovo's forums and there are a host of other people too. I cannot believe how dysfunctional this device is. I thought Lenovo had a reputation for having stellar hardware, but this thing (2nd generation, mind you) has a host of problems: color rendering, WiFi drops, Bluetooth drops, etc. It's absurd.
    11-29-2013 08:39 PM
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