Watch the June 24Windows 11 event right here

11-29-2013 08:39 PM
38 12
tools
  1. coip's Avatar
    I have preordered a Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro with a ship date in about 10 days. In the meantime, I've been reading some user reviews online and it seems like there are quite a few problems. I was wondering if anyone here has a Yoga 2 Pro and can attest to these (or, better yet, ease my mind):
    1. Wi-Fi: Apparently connecting to Wi-Fi is precarious, with a poor range and dropped connections.
    2. Color display: many people are complaining about that the super high resolution screen does a subpar job of displaying colors, particularly yellow (which looks like mustard)
    10-25-2013 10:59 PM
  2. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I'm also interested in further information, since I'm considering getting a Yoga 2.
    10-26-2013 02:02 AM
  3. electricbopeep's Avatar
    I hope not. I just ordered mine yesterday. These sound like things that might be fixable via firmware but still...Can you link to these reviews?

    Edit: just checked BestBuy and saw these issues voiced by several users. I might end up going with the XPS 11 if that get reviewed favorable and if the problems are noticeable in mine
    Last edited by electricbopeep; 10-26-2013 at 05:31 AM.
    10-26-2013 04:53 AM
  4. coip's Avatar
    I saw it firsthand today in Best Buy, compared the color display on the Yoga 2 Pro to the Yoga 11S sitting right next to it. I can confirm that it is very noticeable: yellow, orange, and red look off on the Yoga 2 Pro, particularly the yellow looks awful. It isn't as noticeable in videos, but pictures, icons, websites, etc. what should be vibrant yellow is like dull brown mustard. I took two screenshots to post here, one from ur Yoga 2 Pro and one from the Yoga 11S, but when I view them here on my phone they look identical, so it must be something about the way the Yoga 2 Pro renders it. I will contact Lenovo to see what they say.
    10-26-2013 06:00 PM
  5. coip's Avatar
    I called Lenovo and talked to both Sales and Tech Support but neither of them were aware of the problem. So, no official response from Lenovo yet. We don't know if this issue is affecting just a few batches of the Yoga 2 Pro, or all of them. But, it is clearly an issue as it's one of the most popular threads in the Lenovo.com support forums, with nearly 400 replies so far. There you can also view a picture of the problem.

    UPDATE: I've read all 37 pages of that thread and my conclusions are these:
    This affects all Yoga 2 Pros. It's not 'bad batch problem. The display problem is a combination of a crappy screen (i.e., it's a hardware issue) and how Lenovo instructed the Yoga 2 Pro to display colors (i.e., it's also a non-hardware issue--firmware? I don't know what firmware means) because the Yoga 2 Pro uses the same screen as the Samsung 940X. In comparing the yellows displayed on them, the Samsung 940X does a better job at lower power settings, and they are about the same at high power settings, but both still kind of suck compared to other screens. Thus, Lenovo may be able to provide a pseudo-fix by reworking the BIOS or whatever instructs the screen on how much brightness to use to display colors in lower power settings. But, this will likely result in a decrease in battery life. So that is the tradeoff.

    Here are some select quotes from the thread:
    I'd like to share a bit of information on the particular LCD display panel used in this, as well in some competitor models. Yoga 2 Pro incorporates a PenTile panel, which uses a modified RGBW grid that differs from standard RGB in two ways: first, the physical pixel layout is different, and second, it uses a white sub-pixel (hence RGBW). The white sub-pixel is actually a clear pixel that allows the backlight to come through without any color filter, resulting in a brighter screen at much lower power consumption rates. As demonstrated by temporarily changing the Lenovo Energy Management to Performance mode, the yellow brightness can be increased considerably, with the result of shifting closer to a brighter yellow, rather than the somewhat olive tint with the default settings. Some have suggested that the default settings on other systems that incorporate this panel may appear closer to a true yellow. We compared side by side with a Samsung 940X this morning...the greenish tint is an artifact of the specific LCD panel technology and is fairly consistent with other systems using the same panel. That said, it appears that it is possible to affect the displayed color, and so I believe we are exploring what optimizations we could make via a potential update.

    I'll check to see if we have progress on Monday. Realistically, any update (generically speaking) to BIOS or power management is going to take about 2 weeks at minimum. This considers the whole span of validating the symptoms at various levels, making iterative changes, doing regression testing (depending on what changes are made) to ensure other things aren't broken, packaging the release and then publishing to the web.
    "so far everything said by Mark the rep on this forum points to the fix coming by way of a software update. That can easily be pushed to anyone who already has one. [but, again, likely with a tradeoff in battery life]"

    "Hopefully everyone will now at least agree that the y2p and the ab9+ share the same screen and the difference is in the panel tuning which should make it very easy for lenovo to fix. Actually we already know that from uing the high performance setting but it may still need some additional tuning."
    I don't know what I'll be doing. I was really excited about the Yoga 2 Pro--indeed, except for the screen, as I played around with it today in Best Buy I absolutely loved the design--but with firsthand experience I can say that the color rendering is atrocious. They may be able to mitigate this somewhat, but not all the way (because part of the problem is the actual screen itself) and also likely at the expense of battery life (which is important in an ultrabook). I've never owned a Lenovo product before, but I must say I'm extremely disappointed in their lack of quality control. There is absolutley no way that any of these things should've ever shipped to retail--it's really that bad. What kind of an OEM either doesn't check that or, worse, checks it and still ships it?
    Last edited by coip; 10-26-2013 at 11:37 PM.
    10-26-2013 10:05 PM
  6. electricbopeep's Avatar
    Thanks for the update. I watched all the reviews I could find on youtube yesterday and one of the reviewers mentioned an upcoming fix fir screen issues, along with the fact that his unit had dead pixels and screen bleeding. Quality control is definitely not a priority. And while I'm glad theres supposed to be a fix on the way, a hit to battery life is pretty bad since, afaik, the battery life isn't that great in the first place (~6 hours). Color reproduction isn't important to my work but based on the picks in that thread and your experience, the yellows are really atrocious.

    Looking at the xps11, that isn't an option for me since the keys are way too shallow. I wonder if Asus plans on refreshing the transformer book and producing an 11" version like originally planned. Also wondering if the 11" version of the yoga will have these issues - maybe I should wait for that.
    Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express
    10-27-2013 07:47 AM
  7. nottechsmart's Avatar
    I checked out the Yoga Pro 2 yesterday at Best Buy. The screen issues mentioned here were present also. The screen also had bleeding towards the right bottom corner. I also tried playing with the Surface 2, but for the second time Best Buy had a locked unit on display and nobody had the password. I may take a trip to the Microsoft store tomorrow after work as its only a 20 minute drive.
    10-27-2013 09:51 AM
  8. coip's Avatar
    I checked out the Yoga Pro 2 yesterday at Best Buy. The screen issues mentioned here were present also. The screen also had bleeding towards the right bottom corner. I also tried playing with the Surface 2, but for the second time Best Buy had a locked unit on display and nobody had the password. I may take a trip to the Microsoft store tomorrow after work as its only a 20 minute drive.
    I've heard others complain about screen bleeding too, but I guess I don't really know what that means. What does it mean?

    That is such a huge pet peeve of mine when I go to a store like Best Buy and they have the display models powered off or locked without being able to log in. I always track down an employee and make them fix it!

    Man, I'm so disappointed about these Yoga 2 Pro problems. I was deliberating for a long time about what type of computer to get, finally decided on the Yoga 2 Pro, and then this happens, making me rethink the entire thing (even if they mitigate the issue with a firmware update, the fact remains that 1. the screen itself is simply not that good, 2. the quality control department at Lenovo clearly sucks as this never should've shipped). The Surface Pro 2 is looking more appealing. I'm sick of waiting for a new PC. Ugh.
    10-27-2013 02:30 PM
  9. hopmedic's Avatar
    I was really leaning toward the Yoga 2 Pro as well. I was figuring I'd wait until a black Friday sale, though, so I haven't ordered one. This is really disappointing.
    10-28-2013 05:11 PM
  10. perspicuity's Avatar
    Ugh! PenTile!? I know the resolution is insane ... but still! Annoyed. Well, time to start looking for another convertible.
    10-28-2013 09:32 PM
  11. coip's Avatar
    Just an update. I ordered my Yoga 2 Pro on 10/18. It was supposed to ship on 11/4. I just received an email from Lenovo that said the status of the order is "Released to Manufacturing", and with the following update: "We apologize, but we are unable to ship one or more items on your order at this time. We anticipate shipment within 30 days of this notification."

    30 days! Well, the potential good news is that they may actually be working on a significant solution to the color-rendering problem if they are delaying shipment by a month. Imagine all the lost sales as interested customers drift towards competitors' products. Imagine all the added costs of fixing this problem. Lenovo management cannot be too happy about this. Really makes you wonder what in the heck Quality Control was doing when they approved the Yoga 2 Pro. Now they have massive delays, increased expenditure, and a sullied reputation. I still want an official response from Lenovo detailing exactly what they're doing to fix the problem, and how it affects the other parts of the system (such as battery life).
    10-29-2013 02:52 AM
  12. PicodeGalla's Avatar
    I too want a yoga pro 2 and after reading all the reviews on some of the problems, it has made me want to wait until next years yoga which could potentially ship with windows 9. Hopefully they update the wifi card to accommodate for the newer AC and also put in a better battery. Label me disappointed as well, as I would have bought this in a heartbeat if it weren't for these two hiccups.
    10-29-2013 01:17 PM
  13. coip's Avatar
    Update: The shipping delay was due to the type of model I ordered (orange).

    We have an official response from the Lenovo admin on the Lenovo forums:

    "We are not building with different LCDs. The information that I have yesterday is that there is an update to energy management (software ) and a BIOS update on the way "soon". Given my general 2 week estimate for these kinds of things, I would think maybe within another week we'll see it. There may be other fixes included, but two that I am aware of are the power management glitch where it doesn't stay in performance mode and an erroneous error message saying incompatible AC adapter attached (if using a ThinkPad 90w AC adapter from X1 carbon, helix, etc).

    I think the power management update will deliver stable performance and help you lock in a decent yellow on max perf. (what you can already get by setting to max perf, just that it will stay set after the update)"


    This is really disappointing. Their solution to the problem is to use maximum power settings (there goes battery life). I don't know what they were thinking when they made a device. It was almost as if they decided to make everything awesome except the most important thing: the display. Now they've got a probable flop on their hands.

    Also, I'm very concerned with Lenovo's lack of an official response about this. You are literally the only Lenovo employee I've talked to, out of dozens, who has acknowledged the problem. Here is my experience talking to Lenovo on the phone just a few minutes ago:

    I called Lenovo customer service and the lady said she has not heard of a 'yellow color-rendering problem' and instisted the delay in shipping was caused solely by "exceptionally high demand for the product". She offered to transfer me to technical support to discuss the issue. I accepted. The guy I talked to said it might be a problem with the Intel grpahics card in need of a driver update. I asked him if that was the official response from Lenovo and if there was indeed a driver update. He said he didn't know because "this is the first time anyone has called in to me with this problem." He said he would look into it, put me on hold for 20 minutes, came back and asked me if I've seen the machine in use. I explained that I did see it, comparing a Yoga 2 Pro to a Yoga 11S at Best Buy and that the yellow problem was indeed a huge problem. He reiterated that he has never heard of it and said that he can't help me troubleshoot it if I don't have the machine in my possession. I pointed out that it's been nearly 2 weeks since the Yoga 2 Pro launched, that there is a thread on the forums of Lenovo.com with hundreds of customers with this problem, and that that's a little strange that they don't have an official response yet.. He assured me that this was the first time he has heard of the problem and to call back when I have the device and he'll help me troubleshoot it.
    10-29-2013 02:55 PM
  14. Takiat's Avatar
    I was really leaning toward the Yoga 2 Pro as well. I was figuring I'd wait until a black Friday sale, though, so I haven't ordered one. This is really disappointing.
    I have returned the yoga 2 i5 silver and cancelled the yoga 2 orange i7 I ordered directly from Lenovo. I picked up the surface 2 and couldn't be happier. No QC issues so far. Lenovo decided to go for the big number spec sheet with the ridiculous res instead of making the yoga a great device. They left out QC to make it cheaper but I guess the old saying is true.... you get what you pay for.
    10-29-2013 04:00 PM
  15. bwhavinga's Avatar
    I just spoke with CS who said that the delay was waiting for clementine orange covers, not on anything related to wireless or the display. I asked specifically about the wireless connectivity but he said all major issues get reported to Lenovo who generates a statement if it is a widespread problem. He was not aware of any such information regarding and major issues. However based on all of this information I will not be spending $1200 on this laptop. Just not worth the trouble with these issues that to me are major.
    10-31-2013 05:01 PM
  16. coip's Avatar
    I just spoke with CS who said that the delay was waiting for clementine orange covers, not on anything related to wireless or the display. I asked specifically about the wireless connectivity but he said all major issues get reported to Lenovo who generates a statement if it is a widespread problem. He was not aware of any such information regarding and major issues. However based on all of this information I will not be spending $1200 on this laptop. Just not worth the trouble with these issues that to me are major.
    The Wi-Fi connectivity problem seems to be fixed already with a driver update. The color rendering problem is being addressed, but the solution is not ideal (just a power management tweak that will likely affect battery life). The real concers are that 1) this got past Quality Control in the first place, but even more so 2) that whenever you call Lenovo to ask them about it they all claim ignorance. Telling consumers they've never heard of this problem and thus making the consumers feel like they're wrong when in fact they are aware of the problem is a dickish move on Lenovo's part.

    It's quite a shame because it is otherwise an almost perfect machine. Still, I'm looking at other options now:
    Dell Venue 11 Pro
    Dell XPS 12
    Sony Tap 11
    Surface Pro 2
    HP Split 2
    Toshiba Satellite
    10-31-2013 07:31 PM
  17. coip's Avatar
    It seems that all Lenovo is going to do to fix the yellow problem is tweak their own 'energy management' software to pump out higher brightness and thus mask the problem, at the expense of battery life I assue. To get an idea of what we can expect if we do end up choosing a Yoga 2 Pro, I went to Best Buy today and took comparison shots. I can't get the picture to post here, so I posted it in the Lenovo forums. Click here to see it.

    I then wrote this: The Yoga 11S in any mode looks better than the Yoga 2 Pro in high performance mode. The on one the left is the Yoga 2 Pro running in low performance mode. The one in the middle is the same Yoga 2 Pro running in higher performance mode. And the one on the right is a Yoga 11S running in any performance mode. In these comparison shots you can see that the Yoga Pro 2's color rendering capabilities in low performance are atrocious. In high performance mode they improve to 'just bad' and still look terrible compared to the Yoga 11S. And let me tell you, these pictures do not fully do it justice. This is a very serious problem and it's mind-boggling that Lenovo let this pass through quality control.
    nottechsmart likes this.
    11-02-2013 01:37 AM
  18. electricbopeep's Avatar
    This is so disappointing - a "fix" that compromises one of the most important parts of user experience. I cancelled my order (I was going for clementine too), partially because of the color issues and also because I'm thinking I might want to order the 11s 2, or even maybe the ThinkPad yoga. I saw the 13.3" yoga 2 and its horrible yellows at best buy in person. However, best buy is also selling the 2nd Gen 11s already and im wondering if it has the same color issues (I couldn't tell since they didn't have a display model). I've never dealt with Lenovo before but the fact this problem happened in the first place, along with their handling and ignorance of it, is a real turn-off.





    Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Tapatalk
    11-02-2013 05:17 AM
  19. electricbopeep's Avatar
    So I've been in Best Buy several times this week to compare the 13" and 11" yoga and see the color issues for myself. Since I plan on getting an 8 inch tablet I was having trouble committing to the 11s and I wasn't sure if it would have the same color issues. I went back today, leaning towards buying the 11" and one of the reps mentioned that she had the Sony Vaio Flip in stock. I had been very intrigued when it was first announced and had watched several hands on videos, and I was pretty impressed in person too. I purchased it (the active digitizer support put me over the edge) and plan on putting it through its paces over the next few days and will order the pen as soon as its in stock online.

    Its a shame that the yoga had such QC issues; hoping I've made the right decision with the Vaio...
    11-02-2013 03:49 PM
  20. coip's Avatar
    Lenovo has now locked the thread in their forums (already nearing 70 pages), preventing users from further complaining. Classy.
    11-04-2013 05:20 PM
  21. iosub's Avatar
    Lenovo has now locked the thread in their forums (already nearing 70 pages), preventing users from further complaining. Classy.
    unbelievable...
    11-04-2013 05:33 PM
  22. Nonymous666's Avatar
    The thread isn't locked and is up to 71 pages. Latest post was 3 hours ago.
    11-05-2013 11:42 AM
  23. coip's Avatar
    The thread isn't locked and is up to 71 pages. Latest post was 3 hours ago.
    Yes, it seems they've reopened it now (probably because they were getting beat up on Twitter about locking it), but believe me, it was locked yesterday. I wish I had taken a screenshot as evidence but it doesn't really matter, I suppose, since it's back open.
    11-05-2013 12:06 PM
  24. El Jinete's Avatar
    I'm in the same boat. I want a machine that is primarily a laptop that I can use as a tablet leisurely. Extreme portability is not required as I will use it in bed and while watching TV in tablet mode often but I won't be taking it to the store with me. I am very disappointed with the color rendering and I can't believe it doesn't have an active digitizer? I swear I read in the initial release that it had one but a 3rd party Wacom pen would have to be purchased? Am I completely wrong about this?

    The other machine that I am really interested in is the Sony Vaio Flip 13. This is a really nice machine (just barely started showing up at Best Buy) but it has a few questions. First, the fan on it seems very loud. I have read complaints about this and I wonder if it isn't a quality control thing too. The 14" version is almost silent but for some reason the 13" version is pretty loud. Does anyone know about this? Also, the build quality seems great to me but I'm not sure I like the metallic feel as much as the grippiness of the Yoga. It's a tough call because the Sony is a little lighter and thinner I think. Finally the Sony does have 2 USB 3 ports instead of just one which is nice. Also, the hinge is a little weird but it seems like something I would get used to. To summarize

    Sony Flip 13
    Pros:
    Thinner
    Lighter
    Works with Pen
    Better Display
    2 USB 3 ports
    Keys not exposed in tablet mode

    Cons (Pros for Yoga 2)
    I like the feel of the Yoga Pro 2 better
    No hinge to mess with
    I have always had very good success with Lenovo
    Completely flat when in tablet mode(Sony has a slight gap to accommodate the hinge at the top)
    Loud fan (maybe just a problem with a single batch?)
    The charger seems a little weird (it connects but can pivot so it's hard to trust that it is in good)

    What do you think? I'm really interested in some opinions here because you guys seem to be in almost the exact same boat as me.

    Another note: I have never had a tablet with a pen but am very interested in it. I am a major enthusiast photographer and am interested in how using a pen could be to edit photos in Photoshop and light room. I know that Adobe doesn't fully support N-Trig yet but I assume it will at some point. Part of me wonders if I have a Stylus I won't use it but I hope I love it. Anyway, let me know what you think.

    Thanks,
    Eric
    11-06-2013 09:54 PM
  25. electricbopeep's Avatar
    Hey Eric - the yoga with the digitizer that you're thinking of is the ThinkPad yoga, which is 12.5" and a bit more expensive, and maybe heavier from what I remember. I believe the ms store has it available for pre-order now.



    Regarding the VAIO flip, the fan is indeed loud. I was taken aback by it when I started using at home for the first time. There is a silent mode, but even in that mode, its not truly silent half of the time. It cycles between being on and off and you take a performance hit (which you won't notice for most non-intensive tasks). That aside, I love it.



    I've had it for a week now and took it on my first biz trip and got amazing battery life. Unplugged at 6pm and worked for most of the time on the train down and through a working dinner and still had juice left when I went to plug in at 2am (with no charging in between).



    Keyboard is decent. I tried the yoga keyboard in BB and I think I liked that one better, a little more travel and less flex. Build quality is good otherwise and i love the combination of aluminum on top and high-quality plastic on bottom. Gap in tablet mode doesn't bother me since im using it in a similar way that you are - having the slight angle the gap creates is actually useful for viewing and typing.



    I plan on getting the pen tomorrow and will report back. I had a convertible with an active digitizer in 2006-2009 and loved it. I've been using a capacitive stylus with the w500 and I'll be happy to go back to active.





    Sent from my Lumia 920 using Tapatalk
    11-09-2013 06:03 PM
38 12

Similar Threads

  1. Major Microsoft Surface Pro 2 Flaw with Pen Tracking
    By zain_faiz in forum Microsoft Surface Pro
    Replies: 98
    Last Post: 05-27-2015, 08:50 AM
  2. Surface 2 (non Pro) display port
    By g808 in forum Microsoft Surface Laptop
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-30-2014, 10:59 AM
  3. Issue with surface screen
    By minhthanhvn in forum Microsoft Surface Pro
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-10-2013, 09:39 AM
  4. surface pro vs pro 2
    By ioaniro in forum Microsoft Surface Laptop
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-27-2013, 03:33 AM
  5. clicking on lower left of screen
    By rachel_lee87 in forum Windows Phones
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-25-2013, 11:40 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD