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01-11-2014 09:49 AM
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  1. pseudoware's Avatar
    I realize this has been discussed ad nauseum, but maybe the conversation is now different w/the S2 and 2520.

    Anyway, for someone currently in the market for a W8 tablet, why should RT be considered?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    11-21-2013 10:37 AM
  2. dznk's Avatar
    All comes down to what people want to use it for. If you don't need to install third party Desktop programs like Photoshop, Dreamweaver, iTunes etc RT will usually be fine. Also RT comes with Office preinstalled (although some Full Windows 8.1 tablets do now, not all though). Other benefits include Encryption as standard and better battery life on the whole.

    I personally think RT is great for tablets. Still got Office, IE, SkyDrive, access to your Mail, Outlook Calendar, OneNote to sync notes to and from your other PC's and Phones, stream music with Xbox Music, NetFlix etc the list is surprisingly large. You hear lots of people moaning that with RT you can't install Desktop programs... true, but you can't on iOS and Android either, they both work great as tablet OS's, well so does RT in my opinion.
    toddpart and hopmedic like this.
    11-21-2013 10:54 AM
  3. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    I know one thing for sure, includes office WITH outlook.
    11-21-2013 10:54 AM
  4. Shaz2012's Avatar
    Also includes full version of IE. Question - I wanted to know, can you \\network path on the desktop side of RT?

    If it is possible, it would be awesome because then, I can then browse my NAS for pictures and videos, you need a paid app for that in IOS and Droid.
    11-21-2013 10:30 PM
  5. drachen23's Avatar
    Question - I wanted to know, can you \\network path on the desktop side of RT?
    Yes. Network paths, mapped drives, registry editor, remote desktop, the works. Think of it as Windows 8 non-Pro (no domain logins, no VMs) that you can't install non-Store software on but includes Office. If you don't need specialized VPN software or things that depend on Java, it's not that bad. If you do need that software or things like other browsers or iTunes, Windows RT is not for you.
    11-21-2013 10:54 PM
  6. Insti Gator's Avatar
    This is a question whos answer I genuinely seek, because all the benefits mentioned here I see as invalid.

    Case in point Ill use the pro-RT points above :
    1.) Comes with office Asus Transformer T100 comes with office.
    2.) Better battery life, surface 2 quoted by Microsoft at 10 hours Asus Transformer T100 quoted at 11 hours.
    3.) Includes outlook (for $449) Transformer T100 is $349, can purchase outlook for price difference if desired.
    Windows 8.1 tablets can do everything RT tablets can do and more, have equivalent battery life and specs, and are cheaper.. which brings me back to the question, why RT?

    And food for thought : Apparently new surface pro 2 firmware now gets the pro 2 about 8.5 hours battery life so even the battery life angle is defeated, however the price differential still exists between Microsoft tablets.
    11-21-2013 11:12 PM
  7. ioaniro's Avatar
    RT - thin, light, usually cheaper, marginally better battery, connected standby + different bonuses depending on manufacturer (SkyDrive, GPS, 4g, etc) included in the package.
    Pro - runs all the programs you can think of, stylus support (some). Usually more expensive (the cheap ones come with low res, low memory for a full windows etc.), slightly heavier and thicker.
    11-22-2013 02:05 AM
  8. PandaSPUR's Avatar
    This is a question whos answer I genuinely seek, because all the benefits mentioned here I see as invalid.

    Case in point Ill use the pro-RT points above :
    1.) Comes with office Asus Transformer T100 comes with office.
    2.) Better battery life, surface 2 quoted by Microsoft at 10 hours Asus Transformer T100 quoted at 11 hours.
    3.) Includes outlook (for $449) Transformer T100 is $349, can purchase outlook for price difference if desired.
    Windows 8.1 tablets can do everything RT tablets can do and more, have equivalent battery life and specs, and are cheaper.. which brings me back to the question, why RT?

    And food for thought : Apparently new surface pro 2 firmware now gets the pro 2 about 8.5 hours battery life so even the battery life angle is defeated, however the price differential still exists between Microsoft tablets.
    EDIT: Just a disclaimer: I don't have personal experience with either the Bay Trail Atom processor or the Tegra 4 in Surface 2, so the following is just my own educated guesses.

    I think the biggest difference here would be your perceived speed.
    The T100 manages to be small and cheap with good battery life because its running a Bay-Trail Atom processor. Intel Atom processors have come a long way since their old netbook days, but they're still slow compared to their Haswell Core i counterparts.

    The Surface 2's processor is supposedly top-end amongst ARM processors. I haven't done research on it so I cant comment.

    So about your points:
    1. Yep, Win 8 Pro can do anything RT can, and more.
    2. Battery life vs perceived performance will be different. Surface 2 has 10 hours while giving you performance on the higher end amongst RT tablets. T100 has 11 hours while giving you performance on the low end amongst Win8 Pro tablets.
    3. Honestly in terms of buying Office, if you're a student or faculty you can just get the entire 2013 suite for $10 from Microsoft's "Home Use Program"
    11-22-2013 08:26 AM
  9. pseudoware's Avatar
    OK, I just pulled the trigger on a "Black Friday" RT online. I won't get it for a few days, but I'm pretty excited. This isn't my first W8 tablet, but I've been w/o a W8/WP8 device for a few months, and I'm glad to be "back in the game" at really great price. Thanks for the replies.
    Laura Knotek and Jazmac like this.
    11-27-2013 11:47 PM
  10. anon(8032808)'s Avatar
    I think price points will always be cheaper for RT and battery life should usually be better. The T100 and Surface 2 have similar battery life ...yet the Surface 2 has better specs including a much better screen (1080p). But it's hard to know about price points since no one is really selling RT anymore.

    The real benefits of RT are that many consumers these days don't want to deal with the desktop. They don't want viruses and all the responsibility and confusion that comes with it. Something like RT is simple to use for them. If they can sell them for cheaper and with better battery life then RT can be a winner.
    edoug likes this.
    11-28-2013 01:01 AM
  11. Insti Gator's Avatar
    I think price points will always be cheaper for RT and battery life should usually be better. The T100 and Surface 2 have similar battery life ...yet the Surface 2 has better specs including a much better screen (1080p). But it's hard to know about price points since no one is really selling RT anymore.

    The real benefits of RT are that many consumers these days don't want to deal with the desktop. They don't want viruses and all the responsibility and confusion that comes with it. Something like RT is simple to use for them. If they can sell them for cheaper and with better battery life then RT can be a winner.
    Dude - I literally just explained how your points are invalid :

    I think price points will always be cheaper for RT
    Nope - Surface RT $449, Asus Transformer T100 $349

    battery life should usually be better
    Nope - Surface RT rated 10 hours, Asus Transformer T100 rated 11 hours

    And viruses and responsibility? What is this Spider-Man? "With great computing power comes great responsibility!!"
    I could potentially see it being simpler but still seems invalid logic.
    The specs are hard to judge being completely different processors however general consensus is that they are equivalent performance.
    11-28-2013 01:56 AM
  12. anon(8032808)'s Avatar
    RT devices would be cheaper but no OEM is making them to show that. They have to be cheaper because Microsoft charges less for their licenses. And yes I think most consumers like simple ...Its why iProducts sell like crazy. The number one complaint about Windows of all time is ...viruses.
    11-29-2013 11:33 AM
  13. rodan01's Avatar
    RT is a consumer oriented device, easy to use, secure, affordable and more capable for content creation.

    The advantages over Windows 8:
    -A secure, virus free environment, with no degradation of performance caused by misbehaved apps.
    -Clean interface, easy to use and touch oriented. No desktop.
    -An optimized OS that run smoothly in mid-low end hardware. They have a lot of work to do in this area, probably switching to Windows Phone as a base.

    The product is not ready, a pure RT tablet would be a total failure without enough apps in the store and without Office.
    Last edited by rodan01; 11-30-2013 at 12:40 AM.
    11-30-2013 12:19 AM
  14. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Best browser on an ARM tablet.
    Best full battery life (bar iPad Air).
    Has Office (with touch-optimized apps coming later) built in.
    ...among many other reasons.

    (The fact that I can plug in a 1TB SSD into the thing is a testament to how awesome it is.)

    Sent from my Lumia 620 using Tapatalk
    Guytronic likes this.
    11-30-2013 04:51 AM
  15. Old_Cus's Avatar
    The past few days the Surface RT was selling between $169.99-199.99. I think that pretty much trumps all the previous discussions. The biggest reason was PRICE. (I bought one for $169.99 when. I wasn't even considering one until I saw the holiday special prices)
    11-30-2013 09:00 AM
  16. wpnokia920's Avatar
    I purchased one with cover for 199. But damn its slow. Its going back.
    11-30-2013 09:15 AM
  17. theefman's Avatar
    Funny how viruses are always brought up an an advantage over x86 tablets yet just look at the exponential YoY growth of viruses on android. If RT was popular you can bet it will have viruses, being ARM based is no protection. Everything else mentioned as a plus over Atom is invalid even outlook as it lack some features, however small, from the full version. RT is just as much a compromise as the other ARM based platforms and has no advantage over the new Atom powered tablets.
    11-30-2013 09:21 AM
  18. hopmedic's Avatar
    Funny how viruses are always brought up an an advantage over x86 tablets yet just look at the exponential YoY growth of viruses on android. If RT was popular you can bet it will have viruses, being ARM based is no protection. Everything else mentioned as a plus over Atom is invalid even outlook as it lack some features, however small, from the full version. RT is just as much a compromise as the other ARM based platforms and has no advantage over the new Atom powered tablets.
    Not true. From a developer's perspective, I can tell you that RT apps are sandboxed, much like Windows Phone apps. This is nothing like the wide-open design of the Android OS. You're not going to have to worry about viruses on RT devices just as you don't on WP.
    raccoon210 and Guytronic like this.
    11-30-2013 08:17 PM
  19. Kebero's Avatar
    As a user of the original Surface RT, a laptop with Windows 8.1 Professional, and an IT professional, the following is my take on the relevance of Windows RT:

    First, I think that price can be a factor, if we consider overall hardware construction. Sure, the Transformer Book T100 costs ~$100 less than the Surface 2, but are we really comparing apples to apples? Let's assume that the Bay Trail and Tegra 4 processors are roughly equivalent to each other. Outside of that, the display on the Surface 2 outclasses that on the T100 - regardless of whether or not 1080 is necessary on such a small display or whether or not the display on the T100 is adequate, there is no denying that one display is simply better. The same can be said for the build quality. Accessory ecosystem may also be a factor. If there was a Bay Trail device that was comparable in terms of build and internals to the Surface 2, then we could validly make price comparisons.

    As we move to the cloud, I think the walled garden approach and the sandboxing of processes is certainly an improvement in security. Given that many people use their computers for little other than basic office tasks and consumption, it's understandable that tablets in general are making a move toward becoming primary computing devices. In this arena, Windows RT has an advantage over other tablet operating systems. Should services like Amazon's new cloud-based Windows desktop catch on - even in a small degree, Windows RT would be a great OS for a device that connects to those services. I understand that there are cases where Windows RT cannot replace a desktop-class OS - gamers come go mind, as do those who need to work with heavy A/V processing or virtualization. However, as we see more and more improvements with technology such as RemoteFX, we may see the need for desktops in those markets shrink.

    Windows RT can also play a good role within the enterprise environment when partnered with a private cloud. The walled garden here, when coupled with built-in VPN capabilities, remote desktop, and remote app - not to mention Office with Outlook, creates a device that is very secure and productive that is easy to deploy and manage, and does not carry with it the risks a laptop may have in a mobile workforce.

    None of this is to say that Bay Trail Windows 8.1 Core devices are worthless or no good. In fact, I think they are great. However, I don't think that they necessarily end-of-life Windows RT. When cross-shopping the two, it becomes a value analysis of what the device is going to be used for and what the overall hardware is like. Personally and professionally, I find Windows RT to be a better choice than a Bay Trail Windows 8.1 Core device. I love my Surface RT and would love to get my wife one and move her away from her AMD-based netbook (my laptop is powerful enough to act as a server for the home and to host full Windows 8.1 installs into which we could remote desktop for any thing that RT could not handle.

    This was posted using my Surface RT w/a purple Type Cover 2 while watching The X-Files in a snapped Hulu Plus window.
    12-01-2013 10:07 PM
  20. Insti Gator's Avatar
    Kebero nice rebuttal! I appreciate your insightful post - So now a few questions and observations.

    To address your first point on cost - I agree! The surface was built more expensive than the T100, hence the price gap. However, the market seems to have dictated that the production of RT tablets is not profitable. Let's compare the Asus VivoTab to the T100. The VivoTab was introduced somewhere around $400-$500 alongside the Surface. Build quality, processor capability, screen resolution and storage are all equivalent to the current T100. And yet it cost the same as the Asus Win8 tablets from that day and now costs more than the T100. Apparently RT technology is not profitable.

    Ex 2 - Samsung produces an ARM Android Galaxy tablet for ~$250. They also produce full Win8 laptops for $400+ and there is no confusion that the Win8 tablets can accomplish infinitely more than the Android. RT does not compete with that price point. RT is in the same price point as full Win8 laptops yet is limited (to a lesser degree than Android, but still limited). If RT was priced more competitively then I would at least have ONE solid pro for RT devices. Alas, RT has been every bit as expensive as full Win8 laptops, thus not being useful. The reason I compare the Surface 2 to the T100 is because they are both being currently produced. When RT devices were coming out they still didn't have competitive price points and currently still don't. Sure the Surface has excellent build quality but what benefit is that to RT? Why not have an exceptionally well built Win8.1 tablet built on the Atom processor? Now you have a $449 Surface 2 that makes sense.

    Lastly, the rest of your points are that the tech market is moving toward conditions that are more favorable to RT OS. Be that as it may, this is not an "advantage" for RT. Since, Win8 can already do what RT does better.

    For instance, when you say :
    Windows RT can also play a good role within the enterprise environment when partnered with a private cloud. The walled garden here, when coupled with built-in VPN capabilities, remote desktop, and remote app - not to mention Office with Outlook, creates a device that is very secure and productive that is easy to deploy and manage, and does not carry with it the risks a laptop may have in a mobile workforce.
    You mention built-in VPN, remote desktop and remote app, office with outlook. All the things Win8.1 tablets can also accomplish. So if it's about what RT can do we need evidence of what it can do outside the realm of what Win8 can already do.

    i.e. - You buy a MacBook (Mac OS) and an iPad Air(iOS). Using the outline of my argument above the iPad has to offer something the MacBook cannot. Well it's not going to be in Word Processing, Video streaming, app usage, app gameplay or music storage and playing because a MacBook can already do ALL of that. But if an iPad can cost 1/2 to 1/3 as much as a MacBook, and have 3-4x the battery life but still do 90% of the daily activities of a MacBook - Then there is value to the iPad and iOS!

    These are the same advantages RT must have in order to make any sense. What can the RT offer that Win8 can't?
    Cheaper? No.
    Lighter? Marginally/No.
    Better Battery life? Nope.

    In summation if this was the only thing anyone read about my feelings on RT it would be like this :

    What if I handed you a Surface 2 (RT) that could do everything Win8.1 could do..... Wouldn't it be perfect? Or do you enjoy needing a second full Win8 device. What if Microsoft put the new Bay Trail Atom into the Surface 2 shell?! Then the Surface could do everything the Pro could do in the same excellent build that you enjoy. Would that hinder RT? From your argument only by the privacy/protection viewpoint and I still need clarification on that one.

    If all RT has going for itself is increased protection then that's not going to revolutionize the industry and ignite a viable second Microsoft OS.

    my laptop is powerful enough to act as a server for the home and to host full Windows 8.1 installs into which we could remote desktop for any thing that RT could not handle.
    What if the RT could handle it all? That's what a Win8 tablet is - An RT without limitations.
    theefman likes this.
    12-02-2013 12:24 AM
  21. rbiasca's Avatar
    Here is the problem with your argument. You are comparing cheap full win8 tablets to nice rt tablets. The cheap tablets all have bad screens and build quality and the only to rt devices left have awesome builds and screens. You can't just say the same things over and over again and make people believe them. If there was a modern rt device that had a bad screen and poor build quality like your beloved t100 then it would be a lot cheaper. But there is not a cheap rt device out there now except for last years surface which was a first attempt by Microsoft.
    12-05-2013 12:41 AM
  22. jjmurphy's Avatar
    Here's why I chose RT. I needed all day battery life with LTE and access to Office. My day isn't 9-5, it's typically 7-7 at least. I do sometimes get to plug in, but not always.
    I had an ativ500, but the storage they used on it made the atom processor seem even worse.

    If I needed much else for day to day, I would have chosen intel, but honestly, if I want intel, I use my desktop since it has a lot more system resources than any of the current win 8.1 laptops.
    12-07-2013 11:03 PM
  23. pseudoware's Avatar
    I also had a clover trail Atom powered tablet. Largely an unsatisfying experience. Now, if I need Intel, I just RDC to my desktop from my RT. :-)

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    12-08-2013 08:39 PM
  24. Citizen X's Avatar
    None of this is to say that Bay Trail Windows 8.1 Core devices are worthless or no good. In fact, I think they are great. However, I don't think that they necessarily end-of-life Windows RT. When cross-shopping the two, it becomes a value analysis of what the device is going to be used for and what the overall hardware is like.
    Agreed. Dad has Nokia 1520 and I bought the Dell Venue 8 Pro for mom. It's nice the Venue 8 Pro can do some things that the 1520 can't but the 1520 is locked down secure. RT ensures my dad will have a virus free life and built in Outlook is nice. Buying outlook on it's own for my mom's Windows 8.1 tablet would cost me more than the tablet!
    12-11-2013 02:54 PM
  25. pseudoware's Avatar
    Agreed. Dad has Nokia 1520 and I bought the Dell Venue 8 Pro for mom. It's nice the Venue 8 Pro can do some things that the 1520 can't but the 1520 is locked down secure. RT ensures my dad will have a virus free life and built in Outlook is nice. Buying outlook on it's own for my mom's Windows 8.1 tablet would cost me more than the tablet!
    1520 is Windows Phone 8.1, not RT. Did you mean 2520?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    12-11-2013 08:40 PM
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