Pricing of Laptop/Tablets and All-in-one Windows PC's

[Kazekage1981]

Microsoft, Lenovo, HP, Dell, etc have released great laptops and desktops that try to emulate/mimic the Surface tablet/laptop hybrid product line and the Surface studio. But the one thing that dampens the consumer from purchasing these products is the ridiculous price range: $1000-$3500.

If you want a budget PC, and not worried too much about Video editing, gaming, VR, Photo editing, you are left with these super crappy Intel Mobile super suck CPUs with integrated ****-like Intel UHD GPUs.

I want more consumers (including myself) to purchase relatively decent powered windows products with lower price point with great price to performance ratio. To do this Microsoft and OEM partners have to really consider:

AMD: There Ryzen/Vega integrated APU give great price to performance ratio.

Qualcomm: Since Windows is now on ARM, you can get always connected Windows 10 laptop/tablets using the Snapdragon 835 & 845 integrated CPUs using your cellular 4G connection

AMD+Qualcomm: AMD and Qualcomm recently announced partnership together in the recent summit in Hawaii. In which the Ryzen mobile platform will have Qualcomms LTE mobile connection

Intel CPUS and discrete GPUs from NVIDIA really dampen the purchasing power of the consumer who could care less about the best performance. With AMD's Ryzen line up along with Qualcomms Snapdragon CPUs, this gives consumers more choices with great price to performance ratio. I would love:

-$500-$800 price range tablet/laptop and/or a All-in-One Windows 10 Surface Studio like desktop with Pen that features:
-Bluetooth
-LTE Connection + Wifi
-Multiple 3.0+ USB Ports
-HDMI Out
-1080p FUHD Screen
-1080p gaming with 60fps
-8+ DDR4 RAM (expandable) + HMB2 memory or GDDR6 or GDDR5
-SD card
-Long Battery Life
-512 GB+ SSD Drive
-Think sleek form factor

And yes i have already given my suggestion to Microsoft, AMD and Qualcomm. And for Gods sake, why do they keep putting in these archaic DVD-R/RW optical drives? Can these OEMS atleast start incorporating Blu-Ray R/RW optical drives if consumers want them?

 

[Old_Mil]

Honestly, I see a situation developing where most people no longer have a Microsoft device of any sort...people buy Into ecosystems. I see an increasing number of droid users replacing their windows PCs with chrome books.

 

[DOGC_Kyle]

have you used any recent Intel CPU? They boost extremely well when plugged in (I can get up to 3.9GHz, dual-core, on my i7) - an eight-gen, dual-core mobile i5 is more than capable of pushing 1080p@60fps in most games. I've even gotten 4K@30fps on my i7, mid-level graphics settings, with Halo Wars, Minecraft (java), Portal 2, Cities Skylines. System is an HP EliteBook 1020 x360, as I have it configured it is quite expensive, but there are cheaper systems with similar specs.

The idea of integrated graphics being weak is horribly outdated, and has been for years now.

Additionally, you have to consider the drawbacks of discrete (or even the new AMD "integrated" graphics). They draw more power, which limits their potential to when plugged in, and/or affects battery life. They also generate more heat, which limits their potential, and requires bulkier and/or noisier cooling.


An HP Envy or Spectre x360 can be found for around $800 (if you look around for sales) new, and has

• 
  -pen
  -1080p display
  -capable of 1080p@60fps gaming (sometimes you can get discrete graphics if you want, or add an external desktop GPU)
  -has multiple USB ports (mix of A and C)
  -some models have HDMI
  -8 or 16GB DDR4 shared memory (you'll be paying extra for 16GB if you really need it, only expandable sometimes, but buying DDR4 notebook memory isn't often cheaper anyways)
  -some models have SD card readers
  -battery life is excellent
  -SSD is pcie/nvme-based and user upgradable (often standard 128 or 256, 512 will be an upcharge)
  -Only thing you won't often get is LTE, although the similar EliteBook does have that, but it's definitely more expensive. Personally though I prefer to just tether my phone and laptop, since getting a data plan just for the laptop is expensive. Tethering is free, and it enables automatically when I'm not on wifi so there's really no downside.
  Some systems I've found now, not on much of a sale (so prices will be lower during a sale):
  15" AMD convertible, $750: HP ENVY x360 Convertible Laptop - 15z touch | HP® Official Store
  15" Intel convertible, $730: HP ENVY x360 Laptop - 15" Touch Screen (2GJ44AV_1) | HP® ENVY
  15" Intel convertible, $700: HP ENVY x360 Laptop - 15" Touch Screen (1ZA23AV_1) | HP® ENVY
  13" Intel convertible, $625: HP Pavilion x360 Laptop -13" Touch Screen (V5M17AV_1) | HP® Store
  The Spectre x360 (which I highly recommend) can be found as low as $700-800 during some sales.
  
  I'm only really familiar with HP stuff, but I'm sure other manufacturers have similar products.
  
  
  Also just a note on BluRay drives - those require special licensing which drives the price up significantly. Not much benefit to outweigh that, given that most people who buy BDs are likely planning to use them on a big screen (and thus have a dedicated player) where the quality difference is most noticeable. Other users either won't be able to take full advantage of the quality difference on a laptop screen (although I suppose some may like a portable player, or use HDMI out, but even still there are cheaper options), or prefer digital downloads/streaming. Laptops with BD drives are not in huge demand.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

I am currently looking for a laptop that can fit my needs for photo editing and arhcitecture rendering

These are the specs I would consider

1. 15-17.3 inch screen, at least 1080p
2. intel core i7, 7th or 8th generation
3. 8GB RAM though I wouldn't mind 12 or 16GB
4. Any size hard disk, but if it has SSD, then the smallest available - SSD storage makes the whole thing too expensive
5. backlit keyboard, preferably with numeric keypad
6. All the usual ports such as USB2.0, USB3.0, ethernet, HDMI - I don't care about USB C since I have nothing that uses USB C
7. light as well, 2kg is okay for me, 2.4kg max
8. Really good battery life - say 6 hours on average use
9. Graphics - if it's NVIDIA, then GTX 1050, 4GB - or equivalent from others
10. Price under 1250USD
11. Windows 10 of course

Any ideas?

 

[dkediger]

There are great desktops out there. My recent business purchases have been Lenovo M710 mini desktop units. Usually 7th gen core I5, 8gb ram, 256gb m.2 SSD. Even in single units these run around $700, but are built really well and durable.

We mate them up quite often to LG or Dell ultra wide 32 or 34" monitors - they don't seem to have any problems pushing that many pixels.

 

[gar216]

Microsoft, Lenovo, HP, Dell, etc have released great laptops and desktops that try to emulate/mimic the Surface tablet/laptop hybrid product line and the Surface studio. But the one thing that dampens the consumer from purchasing these products is the ridiculous price range: $1000-$3500.

If you want a budget PC, and not worried too much about Video editing, gaming, VR, Photo editing, you are left with these super crappy Intel Mobile super suck CPUs with integrated ****-like Intel UHD GPUs.

I want more consumers (including myself) to purchase relatively decent powered windows products with lower price point with great price to performance ratio. To do this Microsoft and OEM partners have to really consider:

AMD: There Ryzen/Vega integrated APU give great price to performance ratio.

Qualcomm: Since Windows is now on ARM, you can get always connected Windows 10 laptop/tablets using the Snapdragon 835 & 845 integrated CPUs using your cellular 4G connection

AMD+Qualcomm: AMD and Qualcomm recently announced partnership together in the recent summit in Hawaii. In which the Ryzen mobile platform will have Qualcomms LTE mobile connection

Intel CPUS and discrete GPUs from NVIDIA really dampen the purchasing power of the consumer who could care less about the best performance. With AMD's Ryzen line up along with Qualcomms Snapdragon CPUs, this gives consumers more choices with great price to performance ratio. I would love:

-$500-$800 price range tablet/laptop and/or a All-in-One Windows 10 Surface Studio like desktop with Pen that features:
-Bluetooth
-LTE Connection + Wifi
-Multiple 3.0+ USB Ports
-HDMI Out
-1080p FUHD Screen
-1080p gaming with 60fps
-8+ DDR4 RAM (expandable) + HMB2 memory or GDDR6 or GDDR5
-SD card
-Long Battery Life
-512 GB+ SSD Drive
-Think sleek form factor

And yes i have already given my suggestion to Microsoft, AMD and Qualcomm. And for Gods sake, why do they keep putting in these archaic DVD-R/RW optical drives? Can these OEMS atleast start incorporating Blu-Ray R/RW optical drives if consumers want them?

 

[gar216]

Windows PC's are absolutely ballooning to an off-putting price. I'm an avid windows user, but please hear me out. The benefit to buying a Mac is that you know what you get when you open the box. You know that "this is the price and it will absolutely be able to do XY and Z. When it comes to a Windows machine, I absolutely think that that the bar needs to rise at the lower end of the spectrum in the $300-$400 range. Windows OEM's tend to nickle and dime for each and every feature. If you spend $800 - $1000 on a Surface (typical for the the i5 range), it should be able to handle more than an i5 can handle.

 

[Joe920]

My biggest pet peeve with PC pricing these days is the shameless markup for added RAM or SSD space. Apple (if I may) has been giving the PC space great ideas on how to extract more dollars from customers: offer semi-affordable devices with slightly too little space, and then charge lots of money to get models with reasonable storage. To make this business model possible, just make sure people can't replace the SSD and RAM themselves. Solution: the Surface line of devices that are all but impossible to open.

Example for the Surface Book 2 13.5" with dGPU

Base model: 256GB / 8GB / Quad core, dGPU: $2000
Next model: 512GB/ 16GB; +$500 for 256GB/8GB extra
Next model: 1TB/16GB: +$500 for 512GB extra

To go from 256GB/8GB to 1TB SSD/16GB costs $1000. That's just pure greed, and it's this kind of pricing (from MS and competitors) that's kept me from upgrading for a while now.

 

[Stacy van Duijn]

Exactly i went from a €1500,- HP laptop and €2000,- pc, Lumia 950/650, win 10 tablet to just a €320,- Chromebook and Galaxy S7 life's all good not missing anything in my life right now. This is the future.

 

[AndyCalling]

With desktop PCs price is an issue, because CPUs have been way over priced due to poor competition and as soon as that got addressed GPUs shot up due to miners.

With mobile PCs price is an issue due to CPUs as with desktops, but this is changing. There has to be a bigger push to reduce price though, because the more mobile the device the more its flexibility is held back by the high price tag. Carrying around a 4 figure wad of cash and placing it on your table in public view in the cafe/pub/train etc. would be crazy right? How about if you made that wad of cash even more sparkly and desirable? With TV advertising too? Even more insane? Well, that's what these companies expect us to do.

If these devices start to come packaged with an inclusive pistol it might work... in the US. Elsewhere, they could try sticking a life insurance policy in the box but it won't be very tempting. Let's hope the Surface not-Phone is forward thinking enough to avoid this issue.

If you do have a mugger's joy device, I'd only use it at home and in the office if I were you. Otherwise, best to get a 'Sun's out, Guns out' sticker for the lid.

 

[rmark66]

The hard part is when you buy a high end computer today and find it is more than you need, but in 4 or 5 years that computer is no longer more than you need. You to figure you should get the high end again because you don't know how much faster the new computers are versus what the OS and apps need. So, you play it safe because of return policies and restocking fees and you go with a high end computer again. You will never know if the midrange computer would have done what you needed. The industry wants it that way.

 

[midnightfrolic]

gotta pay to play.

 

[Keith Wallace]

I don't think prices are climbing to a problematic place, I think people are just expecting tech to hit lower price points than realistically is going to happen. I think that the Surface line has become a terrible value over the past year, thanks to things like removal of the included Surface Pen, the cost increase for a Pen, from $50 to $100, and the price hike on the devices themselves. Consider the Suface Pro 4 pricing, then compare it to the "New Surface Pro"

m3-4GB-128GB/i5-4GB-128GB/i5-8GB-256GB

SP4: $750/$850/$1,200

NSP: $800/$1,000/$1,300

This is on top of a $100 increase from the base SP3 to its SP4 counterpart. This is on top of the $100 upcharge you'll pay to get the Pen now. This is on top of the fact Panos Panay came out and said they didn't call it the "Surface Pro 5" because they didn't consider it enough of an improvement over the SP4 to warrant the numerical increase...beyond the price tag. The value of the Surface line is dead, and it's dead to a point that it's gone from a go-to recommendation to a line I won't recommend unless it's explicitly purchased by someone intent on artistry.

As for the rest of the industry, it's always been this way. If you want premium features, you pay a premium price. People are all about high-resolution touch displays and Windows Ink (and pen) support and solid state drives other bells/whistles. Those things add up. I was still able to find a respectable Dell Inspiron 13" with an 8th-gen i5, touch display, 8 GB of RAM, and 256 GB SSD, and it was only $750. That seems in-line with what one would have paid for a comparable device over the past several years. You can still find your i3/i5 stuff with 4/8 GB of RAM, a slow HDD, and a thick, clamshell chassis for $500-700 just fine.

It's about interests and priorities. Last year, I wanted to build my desktop to be small and portable and sit on a shelf. It was a cheap upgrade. This year, I wanted to do something with a lot of horsepower and needless aesthetics, which cost a lot more. In the past, I wouldn't have had many demands in a laptop. Now, I've held out for months to see what Raven Ridge looks like in the broader consumer space, and I'm willing to pay extra if I have to so I have a laptop I know I'll be happy with. I think too many consumers are getting pulled into purchases they don't realize they don't need, the biggest examples being something with an i7 and/or 16 GB of RAM that you'll never use half of. I say this as someone who has to research and recommend this stuff for both work and peers pretty frequently.

What you described fits well into that Inspiron I recommended for work, and would likely be overkill for the layman. $750, touch display, plenty of internals that'll last you a few years. At the same time, you complain about Intel graphics while saying you don't care about gaming or VR--Intel graphics are perfectly fine when you don't look for those high-end components. You're focusing on the "mobile CPU" and "Intel graphics" when those mean VERY little to everyday use. A U-class i5 will be plenty capable and give you good battery life, while the most meaningful improvement in a general user's day-to-day activities will be getting a SSD.

 

[hocthuenet]

Microsoft, Lenovo, HP, Dell, etc have released great laptops and desktops that try to emulate/mimic the Surface tablet/laptop hybrid product line and the Surface studio. But the one thing that dampens the consumer from purchasing these products is the ridiculous price range: $1000-$3500.

If you want a budget PC, and not worried too much about Video editing, gaming, VR, Photo editing, you are left with these super crappy Intel Mobile super suck CPUs with integrated ****-like Intel UHD GPUs.

I want more consumers (including myself) to purchase relatively decent powered windows products with lower price point with great price to performance ratio. To do this Microsoft and OEM partners have to really consider:

AMD: There Ryzen/Vega integrated APU give great price to performance ratio.

Qualcomm: Since Windows is now on ARM, you can get always connected Windows 10 laptop/tablets using the Snapdragon 835 & 845 integrated CPUs using your cellular 4G connection

AMD+Qualcomm: AMD and Qualcomm recently announced partnership together in the recent summit in Hawaii. In which the Ryzen mobile platform will have Qualcomms LTE mobile connection

Intel CPUS and discrete GPUs from NVIDIA really dampen the purchasing power of the consumer who could care less about the best performance. With AMD's Ryzen line up along with Qualcomms Snapdragon CPUs, this gives consumers more choices with great price to performance ratio. I would love:

-$500-$800 price range tablet/laptop and/or a All-in-One Windows 10 Surface Studio like desktop with Pen that features:
-Bluetooth
-LTE Connection + Wifi
-Multiple 3.0+ USB Ports
-HDMI Out
-1080p FUHD Screen
-1080p gaming with 60fps
-8+ DDR4 RAM (expandable) + HMB2 memory or GDDR6 or GDDR5
-SD card
-Long Battery Life
-512 GB+ SSD Drive
-Think sleek form factor

And yes i have already given my suggestion to Microsoft, AMD and Qualcomm. And for Gods sake, why do they keep putting in these archaic DVD-R/RW optical drives? Can these OEMS atleast start incorporating Blu-Ray R/RW optical drives if consumers want them?

I agreed that. Maybe Laptop producers such as Dell, HP need to get the price down

 

[ArtistJD]

Honestly, I see a situation developing where most people no longer have a Microsoft device of any sort...people buy Into ecosystems. I see an increasing number of droid users replacing their windows PCs with chrome books.

And I don't see any problem with it. After all, everyone chooses what they want.

And to be honest, I do not think Microsoft offers the best user experience and expectations, at least not nearly close as Android does.

#my-two-cents

 

[ArtistJD]

But the one thing that dampens the consumer from purchasing these products is the ridiculous price range: $1000-$3500.

Technology itself is ridiculous, not to talk of the price

 

[Wevenhuis]

I don't think the current quality windows pc's are too pricey, but I do think me and other users are not getting the best experience out of their devices with the current state of windows 10. I don't think enough is done to cater for and support for a good end user experience to get the best out of their device. in my view there are several factors ranging from an ever complex and messy user experience in windows 10, still half baked features spanning since windows 10's first release, software stability and performance issues an inconsistent UI design and many more. All are cogs in an escalating situation.