IPhone Beating Nokia 10-to-1 Leaves U.S. Effort in Doubt

[GraemeT]

We've been here before so many times. Betamax and VHS always spring to my mind. The technically inferior system won. My dear old Nokia 9500 running S80/S90 or whatever. Cracking phone. The last real Communicator. Died a death due to support neglect (by the people that made it - er, Nokia actually, doh!). Blu-ray/DVD. It's almost, if you've got a decent product, then who shouts out the loudest seems to win. I'm with WP8. I'm with my Lumia 820. Love both. But I know we're coming out of the gates along way behind the other horses, so we're gonna have to crack that whip big time. M$ and Nokia are really going to have to market. Where I am in the UK, I think I've seen lots of newspaper adverts for EE and the 920, but that's about all. Pretty much nothing for anything else. I show friends who have iPhones my 820 and they all (without fail, no really) drool over it and say how old my phone makes theirs look. But unless marketing power breaks the mould they're just gonna upgrade to the next iPhone. It's no good having top banana unless you can convince everyone else that you've got top banana and that they should get onboard too. All this said, form little acorns. Let's see what happens.

 

[TonePhone]

technically inferior is a laugh, I've never seen a handset with so many issues on release. People tout Nokia's build quality but I have a hard time giving them the thumbs up on that.

You could never do a proper "Meet your match" ad for WP8 v IOS and Android because it is too easily countered by the things that both IOS and Android can do that WP8 can't even touch, that is not to say that WP8 doesn't do somethings better than the competition.

The image stabilization in the video recording is amazing when compared to the other phone but in a real world example android or IOS marketing would point out that you can't do any video editing on your handset which ultimately limits your experience more than what you gain with a more stable image.

In the same sense Nokia could point at the great camera eliminating the need to carry a P&S and making us all urban photographers but it is easy to see that this just exaggerates the fact that you can't use those images to interact with the largest image based social network in the world.

You can tout the awesomeness of having a phone that manages office files like a champ, but sadly it manages pdf like a downsy 4 year old.

 

[FinancialP]

The number is actually 40 to 1 and the x00 series is still outselling the x20 series.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

 

[vlad0]

The number is actually 40 to 1 and the x00 series is still outselling the x20 series.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

the 800/900 seemed to have quite a bit of momentum at the beginning.. I think they on the tail end that wave. Windows CE has its benefits.. its a more mature OS than Windows NT mobile, so its probably a bit more stable overall, and power management should be a bit better as well.

 

[Covfam]

Windows phone 8 is awesome but microsoft continues to sabotage itself, first at release they promise the world and tout that they have most of the top 50 apps...well that's a lie, they have a lot of 3rdparty clones of the top apps and more than half of them are missing major features, some of the major representative here are nothing but placeholders for example my apps, I have a lumia 822, my wife an iphone 4, and we have a asus transformer tablet and the slacker & kindle apps on both android & ios have almost 3 times as many features as my wp8 version, games? well fairly non existant spend some time and look at the top games on the wp8 lists most of them haven't been updated one in the last 6-8 months!
Microsoft's music/video service with xbox live is a giant charlie foxtrot, and the only entity at all supporting windows phone 8 is nokia. on almost a weekly basis most of my nokia apps get updates. almost NONE of my Microsoft apps have been updated at all since release and samsung & htc has done jack for their customers but microsoft has sure been busy porting their software left and right to the other platforms. all you get for Microsoft advertisments are stupid dancing clicky surface videos or little cameo apperances by some stars. the only people that are REALLY understanding how wonderful windows phone 8 is are the ones already converted.
I can't get any of my in laws to migrate to windows phone despite that they love the tiles, because 1. their major banking institution doesn't work on win phone 8, 2. there is not an equivalent to the Cozi organizer app that is available for every other platform not named windows phone, 3. their fitness apps aren't on windows phone 8 and some good ones just left, some of the best diabetes apps are not present the few there are hollow imitations, my wife CANT move to windows phone despite loving the operating system because as a physician not a single one of the 14 medical apps that she uses in her medical practice is on wp8 yet they are all on blackberry, ios, android and **** half are on Symbian! trust me on android and ios there is a metric crapload of useless apps but there are also a TON of great ones and microsoft is showing zero confidence/support in their own system.
If they put HALF of the effort into their app market as nokia things would be much better. but frankly windows phone 8 is only alive because of nokia, personally I like the 8x best but after previous htc experience on windows mobile and my experiences with my htc phones on android, i've found that htc doesn't give a rats butt about their customers or supporting their devices, so I went with the lumia 822, wich I have to say i'm grateful for because they have constantly added to their apps, and updated to the, and have constantly made clear publicly their plans and intentions with Samsung, HTC and Microsoft its a big vaccume.
Until Microsoft pulls its head out of its butt and puts the full efforts of the WHOLE Microsoft into making windows a success it will stay a niche device because nokia cannot do it all by itself

 

[snowmutt]

Rolls eyes. You do know that Nokia and Palm essentially invented the smartphone? And then never bothered innovating or developing their respective products, right? And that Nokia released its first "smartphone" in 1996, right?

Your being a bit technical. Yes, there were smart phones before the iPhone. Some very efficient tools.

Who spurred on app development as an entertainment product and tool development product? Who made it lag free and user friendly? Who developed an entire ecosystem- music, movies, games, computer and other streaming media? None of those were Apple inventions or Apple original thoughts. But Apple was the first to put it all in one package. Truthfully, Android still hasn't been able to catch iOS and Apples ecosystem. Microsoft is trying to build one (doing a nice job but still has a monster long way to go).

The iPhone is stale, old, unimaginative, and hasn't added any true features in 2 years. You can tell that by the fact their commercials pushed Siri and only Siri for the 4s while it was still in Beta, and the iPhone 5 ads are bragging on such amazing cutting age tech as panorama photos (say Cheeeee *takes breathe* eeeese!!!), a 4" screen (perfect for the thumb reach!!) and - GASP- a sound canceling microphone for when you are on a call. Honestly, I was with my family over Thanksgiving when I saw that one, and got so irritated I Hulked-out into mean green mobile geek in spite of myself. Throw in how overpriced their services and products are, we have the litany of Apple bashing.

But it is Apple, it is iTunes, it is an amazing ecosystem, it is a dependable device, and Apple supports their products. I respect those things about them. They have brand loyalty. Honestly, I think WP has a better chance taking away Android users then Apple.

 

[FinancialP]

the 800/900 seemed to have quite a bit of momentum at the beginning.. I think they on the tail end that wave. Windows CE has its benefits.. its a more mature OS than Windows NT mobile, so its probably a bit more stable overall, and power management should be a bit better as well.

No, the financials are readily available now. The x00 is actually still selling more than the x20 and x22. This is due to the deep discounts and subsidies and the fact that the x20 isn't available in many places.

 

[LeLee092]

I've only ever taken an intro to marketing class but here it goes.
If Nokia really wants to educate consumers about their product they need to invest time educating the sellers..
Most of the time when you walk into a store and ask about a Windows Phone the representative doesn't know enough about it and would say something along the lines of "I wouldn't recommend it" "Its a hit or miss" or "I've never used one, I'd rather you get an Iphone/Android"
And most consumers listen to them and buy something else...

How many of you walked into the store and have a representative recommend you a Windows phone?..yeah that's what I thought

 

[TonyDedrick]

I've only ever taken an intro to marketing class but here it goes.
If Nokia really wants to educate consumers about their product they need to invest time educating the sellers..
Most of the time when you walk into a store and ask about a Windows Phone the representative doesn't know enough about it and would say something along the lines of "I wouldn't recommend it" "Its a hit or miss" or "I've never used one, I'd rather you get an Iphone/Android"
And most consumers listen to them and buy something else...

How many of you walked into the store and have a representative recommend you a Windows phone?..yeah that's what I thought

I still don't get, in this day and age of information being readily available, why anyone still relies on store representatives/salespeople (no disrespect to the good ones). They come my way and I either walk the other way or shoot them down before they say a word.

 

[cgk]

Everything seems to point to pure brute force - the more marketing dollars (above and below the line) you throw at your product, the bigger the result. Some of the numbers are getting crazy, I just saw a twitter from Benedict Evans says that he estimates that Apple is spending $3 per phone//tablet, while Samsung is spending $30 per phone/tablet. I think the issue (for the consumer) is that structural change in the market means you need to have many many billions at your disposal to make a serious impact.

 

[Laura Knotek]

I still don't get, in this day and age of information being readily available, why anyone still relies on store representatives/salespeople (no disrespect to the good ones). They come my way and I either walk the other way or shoot them down before they say a word.

I think it comes down to the fact that the "Average Joe" or "Average Jane" is not tech savvy. Those of us who belong to tech forums and follow tech sites are the minority.

 

[cgk]

My sister-in-law recently got an iphone, it took me an hour to show and demonstrate to her what an app was.

 

[Laura Knotek]

My sister-in-law recently got an iphone, it took me an hour to show and demonstrate to her what an app was.

I have a friend who has an iPhone and has no clue how to use email on it. Over a year ago, I was at a bar with a bunch of friends. I had a BlackBerry at the time, and there were two other iPhone users, an Android user and this guy who didn't know how to use email on his iPhone. The conversation then turned to why this guy never replied to emails using his iPhone, so the rest of the group decided to find out.

We sent each other emails. The guy who didn't know how to use email could not figure out how to reply to an email or send a new one. The gal with the Android device took the guy's iPhone and answered one of the emails I sent. Then she tried to show him how to send new emails or reply to emails. He never figured it out. To this day, I've never received a reply from him using his iPhone; he only replies via web-based email in PC browser.

The only thing he uses the iPhone for is SMS/MMS and camera. A feature phone would meet his needs.

 

[JonesCK1]

But lots of people here expected different. There was much talk of how Windows 8/Windows RT/Windows Phone 8 would form a trifecta that would radically change the fortunes of Windows Phone, but so far that simply hasn't happened. Windows RT has fizzled, Windows 8 isn't going anywhere, but it hasn't boosted Windows Phone sales, and Microsoft seems to have screwed the pooch on marketing Windows Phone. I don't think anyone expected WP to overthrow iOS or Android, but getting pummeled during a holiday season isn't exactly a good sign.

[borrowing this from a fellow poster] Hmm, looks like they're doing pretty good globally:

BBC News - Samsung leads mobile phone shipments

Some interesting figures on global shipments by company - As the saying goes - "How do you like them apples?"

1st Samsung

2nd Nokia

3rd Apple

 

[realwarder]

[borrowing this from a fellow poster] Hmm, looks like they're doing pretty good globally:

BBC News - Samsung leads mobile phone shipments

Some interesting figures on global shipments by company - As the saying goes - "How do you like them apples?"

1st Samsung

2nd Nokia

3rd Apple

Samsung	396.5	25.2%
Nokia	335.6	21.3%
Apple	135.8	8.6%
ZTE	71.7	4.6%
Other	635.4	40.3%

Would be nice if Nokia could turn those 300M phones into WP8 sales (Yes I know most were not smartphones... but one can dream)

 

[Romantical]

I agree with your point that people don't really know how much the Nokia 920 really has to offer and Windows phone in general. I don't think it was wise for Nokia to sell their best phone through AT&T exclusively. I also think the weight of the phone is a little undesirable. For Windows 8 phone to have a real chance in the US they really need to crank out some new high quality lighter weight phones. I hear Nokia has one in the works and I hope it starts selling soon. Also, when if at all, will the Samsung Ativ S phone come to the US? The Odyssey offered at Verizon does not sound competitive to the iPhone but the Ativ S might be able to stop people in their tracks. It looks exactly like the Samsung Galaxy 3 but with a much better platform. I believe more high quality phones will catch more interest and people will start to take notice when they see other people using these phones just the way the iPhone caught on. After all in reality the Windows 8 phones are way more exciting and fun than the iPhone. I find the iPhone has become boring.

 

[anon(5503495)]

Light phones feel like a piece of **** to me, u drop and it'll snap. Heavy phones have quality in them. I don't like the iphone5 at all, can't even feel it in the pocket, I wanna know my phone is there, I also wanna use it as a weapon to protect myself. Jk

 

[Romantical]

:grin:

 

[fatclue_98]

No, this guy is completely right. Apple DID essentially invent the modern smartphone - at least in terms of one that was of a high enough quality for everyday people (not tech enthusiasts) to leave their 'dumb' phones. They were the ones to first 'crack' the perfect unity of phone, music player and internet device, the first to present it in a way that even the biggest technophobe could use, and the first to use what are now smartphone necessities e.g. corning gorilla glass (which Steve Jobs actually contacted Corning about - it had been mothballed).

Smartphones have come a long way since then, I loved the 4s but found the 5 a bit stale & boring. However it kinda pisses me off this bizarre psychology that as soon as something becomes too popular (e,g. Apple) it automatically becomes achingly hip to NOT like it.

They might be on the beginning of a downward slope now, but apple did change the tech world and I think respect should be given where it's due.

Long before the iPhone was a twinkle in SJ's sack, Palm Treos had touchscreens, square icons and Kinoma music players. Blazer browsers sucked, but even the 650 had cut & paste, Exchange compatibility and Documents To Go. Smartphones were for professionals, not for watching YouTube. Many BlackBerries, Treos and iPaqs even came without cameras for the enterprise customer that forbid cameras in the workplace. I don't see any particular phone knocking the iPhone off its perch anytime soon, but let's give credit where credit is really due.

 

[LeLee092]

I still don't get, in this day and age of information being readily available, why anyone still relies on store representatives/salespeople (no disrespect to the good ones). They come my way and I either walk the other way or shoot them down before they say a word.

Unfortunately most of our growth are going to come from indecisive users or as lak611 mention "Average Joes". Representatives aren't there to sell you, store clerks know that you already know what you want and probably wont be able to change your mind, representative are there to sell to people who have no clue what they want, and those are the people every company is competing for, all of Apples, Google and Microsoft advertisement are aimed at these people.
I was talking to a best buy mobile representative the other day and she told me that Bose representatives give a mini seminar twice a year to best buy employee just informing them of all the new things and cool features that they offer.
When someone walks in to the store looking to buy headphones, which brand do you think she's going to recommend them? the one she knows barely anything about, or the one she had a whole seminar worth of knowledge?