Please stop hating Google, they only spy on us to improve our experience

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colinkiama

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Getting back to the topic do you think Microsoft should give up on taking over android and focus on taking over apple's market share since they are both using a closed platform os
 

A895

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Microsoft never had a chance at taking Android in the first place. No one does in reality. If anything Microsoft should focus on building on what they have instead of focusing on taking either one of them.

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Chregu

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Getting back to the topic do you think Microsoft should give up on taking over android and focus on taking over apple's market share since they are both using a closed platform os

I just read your initial post again, and I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic. So, let's change the topic.

Microsoft is trying to take over parts of Andorid's market share by focusing on low cost phones. There's no premium phone available, even the 930 will have less specs and less excitement than the competition. So if they would want to attack Apples market share, they had to provide a premium phone with a premium feel. But seeing that HTC is struggling for years now trying to do exactly that with their Android high-end devices, I don't think it's the best idea.

Microsoft never had a chance at taking Android in the first place. No one does in reality. If anything Microsoft should focus on building on what they have instead of focusing on taking either one of them.

I think the problem is that the market is already saturated. There are only a few "dumb-phones" left to win over new users. Most people are already using a smartphone with either Android or iOS. So they have to attack the competition in some way.
 

A895

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I just read your initial post again, and I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic. So, let's change the topic.

Microsoft is trying to take over parts of Andorid's market share by focusing on low cost phones. There's no premium phone available, even the 930 will have less specs and less excitement than the competition. So if they would want to attack Apples market share, they had to provide a premium phone with a premium feel. But seeing that HTC is struggling for years now trying to do exactly that with their Android high-end devices, I don't think it's the best idea.



I think the problem is that the market is already saturated. There are only a few "dumb-phones" left to win over new users. Most people are already using a smartphone with either Android or iOS. So they have to attack the competition in some way.

I agree that's why I think they need to build on what they have and leverage what they have and other competitors don't. We have definitely reached the point where people change phones 1.5-2 years now. The phone I am using now, I have had since December and I am on the latest OS. So Microsoft definitely has to differentiate compared to iOS and Android.

I think they definitely need to keep using Xbox branding as it is more consumer friendly, and more recognizable.

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Karthik Naik

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Google is more transparent than Apple or Microsoft. Sneaky? A read of their TOS or even just figuring out how they make money will give you a good insight.


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what you posted is valid but why isnt there an off switch or a way to turn it off, it would not hurt them as such because 98% of people wouldnt even use or know abt it even if they made one but im one of the 2%, thats sneaky isnt it
 

Vishnu Hs

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I just read your initial post again, and I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic. So, let's change the topic.

Microsoft is trying to take over parts of Andorid's market share by focusing on low cost phones. There's no premium phone available, even the 930 will have less specs and less excitement than the competition. So if they would want to attack Apples market share, they had to provide a premium phone with a premium feel. But seeing that HTC is struggling for years now trying to do exactly that with their Android high-end devices, I don't think it's the best idea.



I think the problem is that the market is already saturated. There are only a few "dumb-phones" left to win over new users. Most people are already using a smartphone with either Android or iOS. So they have to attack the competition in some way.
Exactly..
 

Karthik Naik

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I just read your initial post again, and I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic. So, let's change the topic.

Microsoft is trying to take over parts of Andorid's market share by focusing on low cost phones. There's no premium phone available, even the 930 will have less specs and less excitement than the competition. So if they would want to attack Apples market share, they had to provide a premium phone with a premium feel. But seeing that HTC is struggling for years now trying to do exactly that with their Android high-end devices, I don't think it's the best idea.



I think the problem is that the market is already saturated. There are only a few "dumb-phones" left to win over new users. Most people are already using a smartphone with either Android or iOS. So they have to attack the competition in some way.

actually other than a few high end phones , HTC mid range and low range phones feel inferior to the competition
even the moto G has a better quality build than the lower HTCs
the 930 is actually one of the best lumias ever produced in terms of design etc
infact all lumias except the 625,620 and 630 feel very premium(the 6xx series isnt bad but compared to the other lumias it is)
 

BobLobIaw

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If something is overpriced you don't buy it. It's not like Apple has a monopoly or anything. If it were overpriced they wouldn't be that successful and had to decrease the prices.

Apple products are simply not overpriced, they are very successful in their price niche. Every company would be tremendously stupid to decrease prices with all the products they sell for the price.

You might think that Apple products are being overpriced, but millions of people buying these products obviously don't.

And millions of people do think that Apple products are overpriced. "Don't buy it then" is a lame response that is just a glorified "who cares?" argument that adds nothing to the discussion. You're chastising someone for bringing up a perspective that you happen to disagree with. The person who brought up the point wasn't even complaining about it, so why are you pretending he was?
 

Chregu

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And millions of people do think that Apple products are overpriced. "Don't buy it then" is a lame response that is just a glorified "who cares?" argument that adds nothing to the discussion. You're chastising someone for bringing up a perspective that you happen to disagree with. The person who brought up the point wasn't even complaining about it, so why are you pretending he was?

I'm arguing from the companies point of view. There's not reason for them to decrease prices. If you don't like it don't buy it. There's really no reason why you should care at all. And I think the high-price point of Apple products is something that makes them more successful, not less. Apple products are premium, people buy them because they are premium. This is partially due to the high price, but it only works because the quality and user experience justifies the price to some extent. I think that's also the reason Apple doesn't try to release a low-cost phone. It would destroy their image long-term.

The situation is different from an user's point of view of course. If you don't think they offer a good enough experience for you to justify the price, if you think other products offer more for the price, then you are free to buy these alternatives. No reason to dislike Apple over it.

There are people paying 50 $ for a t-shirt after all.

MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS - THRIFT SHOP FEAT. WANZ (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube
 
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I laughed to those people who think that Google spy but MS not.
Latest Reason To Quit Hotmail: Microsoft Admits To Spying On It
Their are lots if news of ms spying.

Don't you guys know about NSA case?
And what Cortana. It's also keep records of yours interest or other things.

If privacy is the biggest concern for you then the only solution is to stop using internet.

Due to the particular nature of current US "democracy" there are very few (not to say none) US companies able to grant privacy at the moment. The first known backdoor from MSFT was reported in Win 98 and since there on and on. However, Google has taken this at a whole different level (and the NSA). The data is not just collected for commercial uses by Google. It's then saved in servers where it can be recycled (despite the NSA denying some aspects of this) and used for military purposes, personal profiling, blackmailing you if the case in the future, and, as it happened since Echelon, gain economic advantages. Today there isn't much difference between China and the US in this respect. Perhaps the US are even worse because, to put it as many of their allies (like Brazil and others) said "they have abused the long relationship of friendship to spy on their closests allies"..sometimes with allies willing or partially so, sometimes with allies totally unaware (Same UK, same Australia). Google/MSFT/YAHOO/SKYPE are not secondary actors in this. They have had important roles, for a long time.
 

Chregu

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actually other than a few high end phones , HTC mid range and low range phones feel inferior to the competition
even the moto G has a better quality build than the lower HTCs
the 930 is actually one of the best lumias ever produced in terms of design etc
infact all lumias except the 625,620 and 630 feel very premium(the 6xx series isnt bad but compared to the other lumias it is)

Don't get me wrong. I'm not disputing the quality of Lumias or the 930. It's a sweet phone. It looks good, it has good hardware, it has a good OS, it has a very good camera. It's great! But it's in no way exciting.
 

savagelizards

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Cortana will keep the records you want her to keep And I don't understand why you Americans are so scared of of the NSA spying on you. Its not like they are gonna spread the info they gathered to a stranger.

As an American, I will take that on.

The problem with our own American Government spying on us is twofold. First, we are an open society based on free speech. Our government should be afraid of the people, not the people of the Government. The ability to read our private communications allows the government almost unprecedented ability to know how to manipulate the people.

In a democracy, you own you. The government doesn't own you. It's purpose is to serve you. Corrupting that purpose corrupts your own rights to self-determination. It's why in American law there has always been a provision for privacy.

I am not trying to argue that Americans love our Government or that it's not corrupt or even that it's doing a reasonable job, but our imperfect system has its merits, and it's worth preserving our privacy to preserve our liberty. For me personally, that's why I don't feel comfortable in a walled-off Apple dictatorship (Stalin made the trains run on time, after all, but that's not for me), but that's another story.

The second reason is primarily why I am opposed to the collection of any of this data, and that's because the creation and storage of this data creates an unnecessary vulnerability. The government has proven itself vulnerable to hacking across the board. Should we assume that the NSA is so clever that it itself cannot be hacked? Knowledge is power, and if the NSA is collecting all our phone and email traffic and someone knows how to access that data, they could manipulate outcomes for their own benefit. It could be anything from betting on sports (imagine if you knew that the star quarterback was having blinding headaches that he was hiding from the coaching staff) to betting on the stock market (the CEO was having second thoughts about that big merger) to whose wife or husband was having an affair.

For that same reason, I don't want Google indexing my email. Or storing data about my movements, or which web pages I might go to. Any centralized collection of this sort of data should be illegal.

And for those of you that will say Google has required you to agree to its privacy policy, we all know that no one ever reads the policy, since the services they provide are not available unless you accept. Many times it's the store clerk who is setting up your new Galaxy S5 that's accepting that privacy policy anyway (I have watched this repeatedly). No one would buy an Android device and then fail to activate it's most powerful features. And Google, by requiring you to establish a gmail account to use the phone, leaves you always signed in and your device constantly reporting back everything you do.

When I got my Nokia Icon, it was because I was making a conscious effort to remove myself from the Google ecosystem. It was initially very frustrating, because there were key holes in the OS and no good browsers. 8.1 solved virtually all of my complaints, and I am finally quite happy with my phone. And yes, my advertising ID is turned off.

It may seem ironic given the core values of Google when the company was founded (don't be evil), but I have a lot more trust in Microsoft than I do Google. That's important, not only for my privacy now, but also for a future world in which virtually everything in our digital lives will be stored in the cloud.

Imagine having 100gb of data on Google Drive and they announce a change to their privacy policy. Could you move it all quickly enough? Would you?

Before you say that they would never make such a change because they would lose their user base, ask yourself why so many people willingly click accept now when they activate their smartphones. Is it because they have weighed the risks and trust Google to have their best interests at heart? Or because they just don't realize what they are giving away?

In a democracy, you own you. Not a king or a dictator. But in Google's world, they own you - the moment you click accept. You are not simply purchasing a consumer electronics product, and you are most certainly NOT Google's customer - you are their PRODUCT.
 

bobbob1016

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The 5S also has a 64-bit processor, metal construction and much higher resale value. Like I said, value means more than dollars and cents. My point is not only valid, it's vindicated. I don't like the iPhone or iOS, but I'm not blind to its virtues. Just like I don't care for Scarlett Johansson, but there's no denying she's smoking hot.

No, it's valid, and opinion. What everyone has been saying is value is relative. Personally, I don't care about the construction of the phone as if I'm going to use a case, who cares? 64 bit in a phone doesn't make much sense yet either. I like NFC and Wireless charging, I think those have more value as they're more functional. Here's a case and point:
http://www.vaautoracing.org/images4/RiceBurner2.JPG
Someone gives this car a lot of value. I don't, as I *hate* imports. If I had this car as stock, I'd gladly trade it for a muscle car (that was in decent condition), even if the resell value of the muscle car was much less, because personally, I value a good Mustang (even a foxbody) over any import any day.

Tl;dr, one man's trash is another man's treasure.
 

Karthik Naik

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Don't get me wrong. I'm not disputing the quality of Lumias or the 930. It's a sweet phone. It looks good, it has good hardware, it has a good OS, it has a very good camera. It's great! But it's in no way exciting.

i guess thats sorta true
i dont really feel like upgrading from my 720 just yet
i want an upgrade thats really an upgrade too
not that the current lumias are bad but i want more of wp
maybe a newer design as well that way i can keep my 720 and get a newer lumia too
 

bobbob1016

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As an American, I will take that on.

The problem with our own American Government spying on us is twofold. First, we are an open society based on free speech. Our government should be afraid of the people, not the people of the Government. The ability to read our private communications allows the government almost unprecedented ability to know how to manipulate the people.

In a democracy, you own you. The government doesn't own you. It's purpose is to serve you. Corrupting that purpose corrupts your own rights to self-determination. It's why in American law there has always been a provision for privacy.

I am not trying to argue that Americans love our Government or that it's not corrupt or even that it's doing a reasonable job, but our imperfect system has its merits, and it's worth preserving our privacy to preserve our liberty. For me personally, that's why I don't feel comfortable in a walled-off Apple dictatorship (Stalin made the trains run on time, after all, but that's not for me), but that's another story.

The second reason is primarily why I am opposed to the collection of any of this data, and that's because the creation and storage of this data creates an unnecessary vulnerability. The government has proven itself vulnerable to hacking across the board. Should we assume that the NSA is so clever that it itself cannot be hacked? Knowledge is power, and if the NSA is collecting all our phone and email traffic and someone knows how to access that data, they could manipulate outcomes for their own benefit. It could be anything from betting on sports (imagine if you knew that the star quarterback was having blinding headaches that he was hiding from the coaching staff) to betting on the stock market (the CEO was having second thoughts about that big merger) to whose wife or husband was having an affair.

For that same reason, I don't want Google indexing my email. Or storing data about my movements, or which web pages I might go to. Any centralized collection of this sort of data should be illegal.

And for those of you that will say Google has required you to agree to its privacy policy, we all know that no one ever reads the policy, since the services they provide are not available unless you accept. Many times it's the store clerk who is setting up your new Galaxy S5 that's accepting that privacy policy anyway (I have watched this repeatedly). No one would buy an Android device and then fail to activate it's most powerful features. And Google, by requiring you to establish a gmail account to use the phone, leaves you always signed in and your device constantly reporting back everything you do.

When I got my Nokia Icon, it was because I was making a conscious effort to remove myself from the Google ecosystem. It was initially very frustrating, because there were key holes in the OS and no good browsers. 8.1 solved virtually all of my complaints, and I am finally quite happy with my phone. And yes, my advertising ID is turned off.

It may seem ironic given the core values of Google when the company was founded (don't be evil), but I have a lot more trust in Microsoft than I do Google. That's important, not only for my privacy now, but also for a future world in which virtually everything in our digital lives will be stored in the cloud.

Imagine having 100gb of data on Google Drive and they announce a change to their privacy policy. Could you move it all quickly enough? Would you?

Before you say that they would never make such a change because they would lose their user base, ask yourself why so many people willingly click accept now when they activate their smartphones. Is it because they have weighed the risks and trust Google to have their best interests at heart? Or because they just don't realize what they are giving away?

In a democracy, you own you. Not a king or a dictator. But in Google's world, they own you - the moment you click accept. You are not simply purchasing a consumer electronics product, and you are most certainly NOT Google's customer - you are their PRODUCT.

I agree with you on your first point, and the second one to an extent. I'd say that some data scanning is needed, but that it needs to be done right, as they couldn't scan enough to stop the Boston Bombers.

On to the Google thing. I don't have anything signed in for Google, so they can't really track as easily. I do think that up until recently, Google was the "new kid on the block" and as a younger company, they have a lot more encryption as that's a newer thing. They were the first with two-factor authentication (I know it's not encryption, but it's a new thing) as well as the first to make their searches https iirc. There is proof that Microsoft has opened hotmail emails from a former employee to see that he leaked Windows 7 and 8.

When they make policy changes, they do email you soon enough, but as you said no one really reads those apparently. Personally, I don't, but that's me. You can 100% absolutely use an Android device without Google. Most ROM's make you install Google packages separately, so that's one thing, but there's also FSpot. Which is an app store completely devoid of Google stuff. You then install a different mail program and browser, and bang, Android sans Google.

If you're this security conscious, you do only use Linux/BSD, with only open-source drivers, and you've read every line, right? You use TrueCrypt whole drive encryption, not BitLocker, right? BitLocker is closed source, and the government has the keys to it as Microsoft gave them the keys, so you can't use that. You use a VPN, and PGP for everything? As well as making sure your DNS doesn't leak what sites you go to through your ISP's DNS servers, right? Otherwise, how do you *know* for a *fact* that nothing funny is going on on your computer? They could be watching you read this as we speak. And you only use BitCoin, right? The ad agencies can track you by credit card usage, even if you turn off your advertising ID. You also only use WiFi, right? As your carrier can be told to track your phone by the Government as well, I mean, it's pretty easy to figure out where you are by just seeing which towers you connect to. Does your WP ask which apps can access your data? And can you selectively turn those things off? I can tell my Z10 which apps can access which sensors, and which data, and I have XPrivacy on my GS4, so I can stop apps from accessing Contacts/Account Settings/GPS. Yes, I have to trust that that's actually happening, but still.

As I've said, I like some Microsoft services over Google's, but as these points against Google are conjecture, and F.U.D. I figured I'd just counterpoint them. Use what you want to use, but just don't get a false sense of security.

Microsoft opening former employee's hotmail account link for those who don't want to scan my older posts:
Microsoft scans blogger's Hotmail account to track down Windows 8 leaker | The Verge
Read the "UPDATE" section, as it points that the EULA says Microsoft can open your Outlook email.
 

Karthik Naik

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I laughed to those people who think that Google spy but MS not.
Latest Reason To Quit Hotmail: Microsoft Admits To Spying On It
Their are lots if news of ms spying.

Don't you guys know about NSA case?
And what Cortana. It's also keep records of yours interest or other things.

If privacy is the biggest concern for you then the only solution is to stop using internet.

i see you have dug up an article like this but have you attempted to read it? it clearly states that they went through a bloggers emails to catch a leaker , someone who was spilling the beans on their newer tech etc
so they are actually in the right when they tried to catch an abuser of their policies unlike google who sells your info to some strange ad company and often its spam or "dirty" even for legit searches it will get double meaning ads
 

radmanvr

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My friend posted an article on Facebook about Google buying some sort of lens company that uses the phones camera to translate words into other languages in real time and everyone loses their minds over it. They thought it was extremely awesome and how it will change the world. I told them that my Bing translate has been doing this for a while and he asked me for a link. I did better, I showed him a screenshot of Bing translate in action and he was like meh its not the same.

Anyways, I am not a Google hater. I like some of their services while some of their services are just mediocre but it seems the Google fanboys have a totally different view.
 

A895

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what you posted is valid but why isnt there an off switch or a way to turn it off, it would not hurt them as such because 98% of people wouldnt even use or know abt it even if they made one but im one of the 2%, thats sneaky isnt it

There is an off switch. All you have to do is go into dashboard setting and privatize your settings. Like for me I opted out search history being saved, that way I don't get targeted ads.

Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
 

A895

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As an American, I will take that on.

The problem with our own American Government spying on us is twofold. First, we are an open society based on free speech. Our government should be afraid of the people, not the people of the Government. The ability to read our private communications allows the government almost unprecedented ability to know how to manipulate the people.

In a democracy, you own you. The government doesn't own you. It's purpose is to serve you. Corrupting that purpose corrupts your own rights to self-determination. It's why in American law there has always been a provision for privacy.

I am not trying to argue that Americans love our Government or that it's not corrupt or even that it's doing a reasonable job, but our imperfect system has its merits, and it's worth preserving our privacy to preserve our liberty. For me personally, that's why I don't feel comfortable in a walled-off Apple dictatorship (Stalin made the trains run on time, after all, but that's not for me), but that's another story.

The second reason is primarily why I am opposed to the collection of any of this data, and that's because the creation and storage of this data creates an unnecessary vulnerability. The government has proven itself vulnerable to hacking across the board. Should we assume that the NSA is so clever that it itself cannot be hacked? Knowledge is power, and if the NSA is collecting all our phone and email traffic and someone knows how to access that data, they could manipulate outcomes for their own benefit. It could be anything from betting on sports (imagine if you knew that the star quarterback was having blinding headaches that he was hiding from the coaching staff) to betting on the stock market (the CEO was having second thoughts about that big merger) to whose wife or husband was having an affair.

For that same reason, I don't want Google indexing my email. Or storing data about my movements, or which web pages I might go to. Any centralized collection of this sort of data should be illegal.

And for those of you that will say Google has required you to agree to its privacy policy, we all know that no one ever reads the policy, since the services they provide are not available unless you accept. Many times it's the store clerk who is setting up your new Galaxy S5 that's accepting that privacy policy anyway (I have watched this repeatedly). No one would buy an Android device and then fail to activate it's most powerful features. And Google, by requiring you to establish a gmail account to use the phone, leaves you always signed in and your device constantly reporting back everything you do.

When I got my Nokia Icon, it was because I was making a conscious effort to remove myself from the Google ecosystem. It was initially very frustrating, because there were key holes in the OS and no good browsers. 8.1 solved virtually all of my complaints, and I am finally quite happy with my phone. And yes, my advertising ID is turned off.

It may seem ironic given the core values of Google when the company was founded (don't be evil), but I have a lot more trust in Microsoft than I do Google. That's important, not only for my privacy now, but also for a future world in which virtually everything in our digital lives will be stored in the cloud.

Imagine having 100gb of data on Google Drive and they announce a change to their privacy policy. Could you move it all quickly enough? Would you?

Before you say that they would never make such a change because they would lose their user base, ask yourself why so many people willingly click accept now when they activate their smartphones. Is it because they have weighed the risks and trust Google to have their best interests at heart? Or because they just don't realize what they are giving away?

In a democracy, you own you. Not a king or a dictator. But in Google's world, they own you - the moment you click accept. You are not simply purchasing a consumer electronics product, and you are most certainly NOT Google's customer - you are their PRODUCT.

So you by your own admission don't read the TOS and you don't want yo actually edit your setting and privatize your account.

No you jut wanted to switch phones that's all that is.

Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
 
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