09-16-2014 02:32 PM
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  1. diego866's Avatar
    Good friends, I open this topic to inquire and view some things, having had the iphone 5s and currently from 1 week my 1520 does, I can say that both are almost on par in terms of fluency, the 1520 has the preview of 8.1 some minilag, completely normal because not finished to 100x100.
    Questions, windows phone, unlike android, not working under a virtual machine? like the iphone, is this true? ie windows phone is programmed to work well for hardware that is manufactured?
    Android takes a Java virtual machine with JIT optimization on the terminal; Silverlight Windows phone runs a virtual machine optimized for the cloud store for each device code.

    The code that runs on the last terminal in windows phone is much closer to machine code on Android.

    Knowing this, and knowing that the iphone 5s is already 64 bits while the lumia icon etc is 32 bits, have something to do in the near future that we forget to microsoft on the issue of what updates only update the 64-bit , see, they will be thinking that I'm crazy, because even with no windows phone 64-bit architecture, but this could happen?
    A snapdragon Gigaflops 800 giving 129 which is currently riding the 930, 929 and 1520 is more than enough to be at least 2 or 3 years to date like the iphone?
    a hug and apologize for all throughout the paragraph
    And forgive the words I use, I am Spanish and use a translator hehe
    06-18-2014 06:54 AM
  2. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    64bit mobiles are a gimmick at the moment ,its like 4k amazing technology but not many uses/media for it at the moment
    should be 5-6 years before 64bit(and even 4k) become mainstream in the industry
    06-18-2014 06:59 AM
  3. poststamp's Avatar
    I don't think 64 bit is going to outdate 32 bit in a short time. Most phones even in the near future will be 32 bit, if you make an app just for 64 bit systems only you lose the majority of potential users, same with websites. Also 64 bit systems are backwards compatible with 32 bit programs. First the userbase has to be there, then software will follow.
    06-18-2014 07:05 AM
  4. salmanahmad's Avatar
    This is an interesting topic and I've researched on it since the time Appple unveiled the iPhone 5S. Back at that time I immediately thought whether this change to 64 bit would render most current SOCs useless, turns out the exact opposite happened.

    The big(or main difference) between 32 and 64 bit is that 32 can use upto 4 GB Of RAM, whereas 64 bit can handle over 16 exabytes(which is quite a lot.)

    The iPhone as opposed to high end Windows or Android phones only uses 1GB of RAM so what happens when you couple 64 bit chips with a phone that has only 1GB of RAM? Apps crash, battery life gets worse, etc. However as time passes the apps will be optimized and run more smoothly and 64 bit does have some performance improvements but on a phone with low RAM the difference in performance is negligible.

    Another important factor would be the fact that 64 bit has existed on PCs for quite some time now, but most app developers have continued their support for 32 bit systems for a long time. Another important point would be that the Apple A8 chip is still not as powerful as the Snapdragon 800 or 801, so existing 32 bit chips are still faster than the 64 bit Apple offering, infact Snapdragon 800 devices also have the power to play and edit 4K videos, something which I believe Apple A8 can not do.

    There is no real downside of having a 64 bit device but no real benefits at the moment either. If you have bought a Lumia 1520 rest assured Microsoft has promised support for Windows Phone 8 and 8.1 till 2017, and I'm pretty sure Lumia 1520 will get Windows Phone 9, when it arrives. Plus if you can afford a high end device now I am pretty sure you'll be able to afford one in one or two years when most high end devices will be 64 bit. Plus app developers won't give up support for 32 bit either, as an overwhelming majority of smartphones will be 32 bit for many many years to come.

    However if you still think 64 bit is important, Snapdragon is releasing 64 bit chips at the end of this year and you will see them appearing on different Windows Phone soon after.
    06-18-2014 07:33 AM
  5. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    I don't think 64 bit is going to outdate 32 bit in a short time. Most phones even in the near future will be 32 bit, if you make an app just for 64 bit systems only you lose the majority of potential users, same with websites. Also 64 bit systems are backwards compatible with 32 bit programs. First the userbase has to be there, then software will follow.
    its not fully backwards compatible,my dads 5s had a few apps crash on him and not work,upon googling it i learned apps need to be updated to provide 64bit support
    so i guess alot of work will be needed to provide a smooth transition
    06-18-2014 08:23 AM
  6. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    This is an interesting topic and I've researched on it since the time Appple unveiled the iPhone 5S. Back at that time I immediately thought whether this change to 64 bit would render most current SOCs useless, turns out the exact opposite happened.

    The big(or main difference) between 32 and 64 bit is that 32 can use upto 4 GB Of RAM, whereas 64 bit can handle over 16 exabytes(which is quite a lot.)

    The iPhone as opposed to high end Windows or Android phones only uses 1GB of RAM so what happens when you couple 64 bit chips with a phone that has only 1GB of RAM? Apps crash, battery life gets worse, etc. However as time passes the apps will be optimized and run more smoothly and 64 bit does have some performance improvements but on a phone with low RAM the difference in performance is negligible.

    Another important factor would be the fact that 64 bit has existed on PCs for quite some time now, but most app developers have continued their support for 32 bit systems for a long time. Another important point would be that the Apple A8 chip is still not as powerful as the Snapdragon 800 or 801, so existing 32 bit chips are still faster than the 64 bit Apple offering, infact Snapdragon 800 devices also have the power to play and edit 4K videos, something which I believe Apple A8 can not do.

    There is no real downside of having a 64 bit device but no real benefits at the moment either. If you have bought a Lumia 1520 rest assured Microsoft has promised support for Windows Phone 8 and 8.1 till 2017, and I'm pretty sure Lumia 1520 will get Windows Phone 9, when it arrives. Plus if you can afford a high end device now I am pretty sure you'll be able to afford one in one or two years when most high end devices will be 64 bit. Plus app developers won't give up support for 32 bit either, as an overwhelming majority of smartphones will be 32 bit for many many years to come.

    However if you still think 64 bit is important, Snapdragon is releasing 64 bit chips at the end of this year and you will see them appearing on different Windows Phone soon after.
    ^ i think this shows a better view of what i mean
    +1520
    06-18-2014 08:24 AM
  7. jpal12's Avatar
    This is an interesting topic and I've researched on it since the time Appple unveiled the iPhone 5S. Back at that time I immediately thought whether this change to 64 bit would render most current SOCs useless, turns out the exact opposite happened.

    The big(or main difference) between 32 and 64 bit is that 32 can use upto 4 GB Of RAM, whereas 64 bit can handle over 16 exabytes(which is quite a lot.)

    The iPhone as opposed to high end Windows or Android phones only uses 1GB of RAM so what happens when you couple 64 bit chips with a phone that has only 1GB of RAM? Apps crash, battery life gets worse, etc. However as time passes the apps will be optimized and run more smoothly and 64 bit does have some performance improvements but on a phone with low RAM the difference in performance is negligible.

    Another important factor would be the fact that 64 bit has existed on PCs for quite some time now, but most app developers have continued their support for 32 bit systems for a long time. Another important point would be that the Apple A8 chip is still not as powerful as the Snapdragon 800 or 801, so existing 32 bit chips are still faster than the 64 bit Apple offering, infact Snapdragon 800 devices also have the power to play and edit 4K videos, something which I believe Apple A8 can not do.

    There is no real downside of having a 64 bit device but no real benefits at the moment either. If you have bought a Lumia 1520 rest assured Microsoft has promised support for Windows Phone 8 and 8.1 till 2017, and I'm pretty sure Lumia 1520 will get Windows Phone 9, when it arrives. Plus if you can afford a high end device now I am pretty sure you'll be able to afford one in one or two years when most high end devices will be 64 bit. Plus app developers won't give up support for 32 bit either, as an overwhelming majority of smartphones will be 32 bit for many many years to come.

    However if you still think 64 bit is important, Snapdragon is releasing 64 bit chips at the end of this year and you will see them appearing on different Windows Phone soon after.
    The main benefit of 64 bit ARM is the updated ARMv8 architecture. And 32 bit processors do have support for more than 4 GB RAM using Physical Address Extensions. They cannot allocate more than 4GB to one process though.
    Anglerdk likes this.
    06-20-2014 02:14 PM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    And 32 bit processors do have support for more than 4 GB RAM using Physical Address Extensions. They cannot allocate more than 4GB to one process though.
    Yeah, but that is a twenty year old hack that intel used just before PC's moved to 64 bit CPUs. You really don't want to do that if you don't have to, and today there is no reason to.
    Last edited by a5cent; 12-03-2014 at 04:51 PM. Reason: spelling
    DavidinCT likes this.
    06-21-2014 10:04 AM
  9. Fade_z's Avatar
    This is an interesting topic and I've researched on it since the time Appple unveiled the iPhone 5S. Back at that time I immediately thought whether this change to 64 bit would render most current SOCs useless, turns out the exact opposite happened.

    The big(or main difference) between 32 and 64 bit is that 32 can use upto 4 GB Of RAM, whereas 64 bit can handle over 16 exabytes(which is quite a lot.)

    The iPhone as opposed to high end Windows or Android phones only uses 1GB of RAM so what happens when you couple 64 bit chips with a phone that has only 1GB of RAM? Apps crash, battery life gets worse, etc. However as time passes the apps will be optimized and run more smoothly and 64 bit does have some performance improvements but on a phone with low RAM the difference in performance is negligible.

    Another important factor would be the fact that 64 bit has existed on PCs for quite some time now, but most app developers have continued their support for 32 bit systems for a long time. Another important point would be that the Apple A8 chip is still not as powerful as the Snapdragon 800 or 801, so existing 32 bit chips are still faster than the 64 bit Apple offering, infact Snapdragon 800 devices also have the power to play and edit 4K videos, something which I believe Apple A8 can not do.

    There is no real downside of having a 64 bit device but no real benefits at the moment either. If you have bought a Lumia 1520 rest assured Microsoft has promised support for Windows Phone 8 and 8.1 till 2017, and I'm pretty sure Lumia 1520 will get Windows Phone 9, when it arrives. Plus if you can afford a high end device now I am pretty sure you'll be able to afford one in one or two years when most high end devices will be 64 bit. Plus app developers won't give up support for 32 bit either, as an overwhelming majority of smartphones will be 32 bit for many many years to come.

    However if you still think 64 bit is important, Snapdragon is releasing 64 bit chips at the end of this year and you will see them appearing on different Windows Phone soon after.
    Personally i think apple made this decision to make way for the future. If they have 64bit architecture now people can already begin to make use of it, so when they release the next 3/4 iphones [with more ram] the situation would be better because they have the advantage in years of development as opposed to Android/WP
    06-21-2014 10:29 AM
  10. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    Personally i think apple made this decision to make way for the future. If they have 64bit architecture now people can already begin to make use of it, so when they release the next 3/4 iphones [with more ram] the situation would be better because they have the advantage in years of development as opposed to Android/WP
    but by the time 64 bit becomes the norm the phone will already be outdated and wont run 64bit apps properly and will lose support by then unless someone sticks to their phone for 4 years atleast
    a good example is the lumia 630-quad core cpu but 512mb ram which is a bit pointless imho
    DavidinCT likes this.
    06-21-2014 11:13 AM
  11. James8561's Avatar
    Another important point would be that the Apple A8 chip is still not as powerful as the Snapdragon 800 or 801, so existing 32 bit chips are still faster than the 64 bit Apple offering, infact Snapdragon 800 devices also have the power to play and edit 4K videos, something which I believe Apple A8 can not do.
    FYI the Apple A7 in the iPhone 5S beats every other phone chip on the market so no, the Snapdragon 801 doesn't beat the A7.
    iPhone A7 Chip Benchmarks: Forget the Specs, It Blows Everything Away
    that link shows why. A7 just owns everything else right now. in fact if apple sells A7 chips to 3rd parties they'll make another fortune.
    and who plays 4k videos on a 720p phone. or even 1080p phone. you want a 60" TV for that.
    Karthik Naik, erMonas and FFR like this.
    06-21-2014 02:04 PM
  12. Fade_z's Avatar
    FYI the Apple A7 in the iPhone 5S beats every other phone chip on the market so no, the Snapdragon 801 doesn't beat the A7.
    iPhone A7 Chip Benchmarks: Forget the Specs, It Blows Everything Away
    that link shows why. A7 just owns everything else right now. in fact if apple sells A7 chips to 3rd parties they'll make another fortune.
    and who plays 4k videos on a 720p phone. or even 1080p phone. you want a 60" TV for that.
    HA...HA...HA

    Also dont forget benchmarks dont say **** because one can optimize for it PLUS the OS its on does count rather heavily.
    And further the snapdragon 801 does beat it specs wise.
    06-21-2014 07:15 PM
  13. realwarder's Avatar
    Something to consider is that Windows Phone apps have a lot of c# code which is more like Java on Android - it is a JIT technology, compiled prior to use. Whether the actual CPU is a 64bit or 32bit is irrelevant. Objective C on iOS is natively compiled for a specific 32bit or 64bit processor.

    Now I know that the situation is really more complex than that - game engines and C++ libraries on WP are target specific, and the current Native compiler is too, but many non-game apps on WP don't care about a 32bit or 64bit processor, and so when they come along, it really won't make much difference.

    And yes, 64bit will come, but why rush when the impact is small?

    Personally I'd even put up with a slower, more efficient dual core 32bit phone with a battery that lasts a week (yes, I love dreaming) than some 8 core 64bit monster that lasts 8 hours!
    06-21-2014 11:05 PM
  14. James8561's Avatar
    You attempt to downplay my evidence by discrediting benchmarks, which is like the only accurate thing we have to gauge mobile performance while you proceed to cite specs, an incredibly unreliable source of manufacturer inflation of meaningless number.

    If you honestly think that a Snapdragon 801 is faster than an A7 simply because it has 4 cores at 2.5 GHz compared to 2 cores at 1.3 GHz, then the marketing scheme is successful and you will continue to be fooled. No mobile processor runs above 2 GHz for any appreciable length of time or your battery die in an hour and your phone melts. Specs inflation always.
    Here's an example. A 4 core Intel core i7 4770 at 3.5 GHz owns an 8 core AMD FX 8350 at 4 GHz any day.

    Bottom line, If you honestly think that only core count and frequency dictate processor performance, then you are truly mistaken.
    06-22-2014 03:33 AM
  15. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    You attempt to downplay my evidence by discrediting benchmarks, which is like the only accurate thing we have to gauge mobile performance while you proceed to cite specs, an incredibly unreliable source of manufacturer inflation of meaningless number.

    If you honestly think that a Snapdragon 801 is faster than an A7 simply because it has 4 cores at 2.5 GHz compared to 2 cores at 1.3 GHz, then the marketing scheme is successful and you will continue to be fooled. No mobile processor runs above 2 GHz for any appreciable length of time or your battery die in an hour and your phone melts. Specs inflation always.
    Here's an example. A 4 core Intel core i7 4770 at 3.5 GHz owns an 8 core AMD FX 8350 at 4 GHz any day.

    Bottom line, If you honestly think that only core count and frequency dictate processor performance, then you are truly mistaken.
    This is right everyone knows that the same spec Intel Celeron would be no match for an i7
    06-22-2014 03:44 AM
  16. FFR's Avatar
    Apple has the only 64bit mobile ecosystem, today.
    They have the hardware, the os, and the apps, the iOS 7 sdk has recompiled all 3rd party apps to 64 bit, and from iOS 7 onwards all of apples default apps are now written natively in 64bit.


    Apple is going to leverage the 64 bit architecture for iOS 8, extensibility, cloud kit, health kit, and home kit.

    We all remember the Qualcomm reaction:

    "Qualcomm Insider: Apple 64-Bit Chip `Hit Us in the Gut'"

    The 64-bit Apple chip hit us in the gut, says the Qualcomm employee. Not just us, but everyone, really. We were slack-jawed, and stunned, and unprepared. Its not that big a performance difference right now, since most current software wont benefit. But in Spinal Tap terms its like, 32 more, and now everyone wants it.


    Unless your apple ofcourse.


    The roadmap for 64-bit was nowhere close to Apples, since no one thought it was that essential, the Qualcomm insider says....But once Apple introduced a 64-bit processor, all the other phone-makers wanted one too. Apple kicked everybody in the balls with this. Its being downplayed, but it set off panic in the industry.

    Hmm I wonder what else was "downplayed" until competitors have the time to react? Multitouch, capacitive screens, etc. etc

    http://blog.hubspot.com/opinion/qual...-hit-us-in-gut
    06-22-2014 06:57 AM
  17. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Personally i think apple made this decision to make way for the future. If they have 64bit architecture now people can already begin to make use of it, so when they release the next 3/4 iphones [with more ram] the situation would be better because they have the advantage in years of development as opposed to Android/WP
    Possibly, but I believe they did it to get press and to continue the illusion of their phone/os being more advanced then the others when in reality there was no practical need to do this for quete a while. I believe the choice to change to 64 bit when they did was more of a marketing decision.
    calfee20 likes this.
    06-22-2014 07:09 AM
  18. FFR's Avatar
    Possibly, but I believe they did it to get press and to continue the illusion of their phone/os being more advanced then the others when in reality there was no practical need to do this for quete a while. I believe the choice to change to 64 bit when they did was more of a marketing decision.
    That's because you haven't used one.
    06-22-2014 07:15 AM
  19. Kaushik Dash's Avatar
    FYI the Apple A7 in the iPhone 5S beats every other phone chip on the market so no, the Snapdragon 801 doesn't beat the A7.
    iPhone A7 Chip Benchmarks: Forget the Specs, It Blows Everything Away
    that link shows why. A7 just owns everything else right now. in fact if apple sells A7 chips to 3rd parties they'll make another fortune.
    and who plays 4k videos on a 720p phone. or even 1080p phone. you want a 60" TV for that.
    Uh, it shows that it beats the Snapdragon 600 but doesn't show anything about the 800..

    Sure cores don't count but that link doesn't prove anything. You should show link of the A7 beating the S800, not S600. That's what Salmanahmad tossed it.
    06-22-2014 07:51 AM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    That's because you haven't used one.
    I have, and I completely agree with others that there is zero perceivable benefit.

    However, I think most here are stretching really hard in an attempt to make sense of something that just fundamentally doesn't make sense. At least on the iPhone a 64bit OS is rather irrelevant, and will remain so for quite some time.

    Where a 64bit iOS is likely to make a lot more sense is on larger tablets (much higher resolution displays, more graphics intensive apps, etc). I think 64bit iOS just happened to debut on the iPhone, but that is not where it will find its purpose, at least not at first.

    My prediction is that we will see a 4GB tablett rather sooner than later.
    JamesPTao, Mach_E and Karthik Naik like this.
    06-22-2014 08:05 AM
  21. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    I have, and I completely agree with others that there is zero perceivable benefit.

    However, I think most here are stretching really hard in an attempt to make sense of something that just fundamentally doesn't make sense. At least on the iPhone a 64bit OS is rather irrelevant, and will remain so for quite some time.

    Where a 64bit iOS is likely to make a lot more sense is on larger tablets (much higher resolution displays, more graphics intensive apps, etc). I think 64bit iOS just happened to debut on the iPhone, but that is not where it will find its purpose, at least not at first.

    My prediction is that we will see a 4GB tablett rather sooner than later.
    yeah i think apple should have added the much needed wireless charging and nfc to the iphone instead of M7 and the new 64bit cpu first as wireless charging and nfc are fast becoming a norm soon
    DavidinCT and JamesPTao like this.
    06-22-2014 02:56 PM
  22. Fiann's Avatar
    Possibly, but I believe they did it to get press and to continue the illusion of their phone/os being more advanced then the others when in reality there was no practical need to do this for quete a while. I believe the choice to change to 64 bit when they did was more of a marketing decision.
    Apple has been adding more and more features from iOS to OS-X. I wouldn't doubt that this move is in part to support that. In fact, I would not be at all surprised to see an update at some point that allows use of iOS apps on OS-X and for them to try to merge the platforms, much like MS is doing with Windows/WP. They need to make sure that the 64-bit software is well established and works well before that time. I also expect them to bump the specs on iPads further so that they will eventually need the 64-bit addressing for RAM.
    06-24-2014 12:39 PM
  23. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    128bit :D
    DavidinCT likes this.
    07-01-2014 01:52 PM
  24. David P2's Avatar
    In the case of Android and iOS they will have to go completely 64bit (both hardware and all software) before19th January 2038, due to the way Unix based OS's handle dates on a 32bit system.

    At 03:14:08 UTC on 19 January 2038, 32-bit versions of the Unix time stamp will cease to work, as it will overflow the largest value that can be held in a signed 32-bit number (7FFFFFFF^16 or 2,147,483,647). Before this moment, software using 32-bit time stamps will need to adopt a new convention for time stamps,[19] and file formats using 32-bit time stamps will need to be changed to support larger time stamps or a different epoch.
    The next second after that will be 00:00:00 1st January 1970.

    See here: Year 2038 problem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    James8561 likes this.
    07-01-2014 02:13 PM
  25. EspHack's Avatar
    even 2gb ram is overkill for most phones at the moment, 4+ its just plain useless, I don't see it sticking anytime soon, battery life doesn't help either, I cant think of an app that actually needs more than 4gb of ram to run, even on desktops that's hard to see
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    07-01-2014 06:40 PM
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