The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it?

[FredBloggs007]

The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

So the usual comment from most developers goes along the lines... "we aren't developing an app / game for WP because the user base is too small..."

Ok, so I can kinda accept this sometimes. However, do you think there are / will be more Apple Watch users than WP users? The reason for asking it that I've just read that Trivia Crack will be developing a version of the app which will run on the Apple Watch. I know that Trivia Crack is available on WP, but I'm assuming (could be wrong) that there are / will be more WP users that Apple Watch users. However, it still appears that developers are being incentivised to side with Apple even though the user base is small - at least for the Apple Watch.

My basic assumptions may be wrong (and I know that Win10 will change the game), but MS really do need to work with developers more to get more and more apps on their platform in the same way that Apple are doing so.

Anyone else agree or have any other opinions on this?

 

[darkest.white]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

They are making all those apps for the Apple Watch because they know there are a ton of iSheep who will be herded into buying them

 

[Alex Rodriguez Jr.]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

Well, Microsoft, so far, has been the Apple Watch's biggest supporter.


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[Stiv X]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

Microsoft has always been a software company first, hardware second company. They are also still fighting the "we are a good company" fight.

I don't think there is anyone who wouldn't say MS is not relevant work the exception of WP market share. So, they are winning the positivity pr game.

I do wish, however, MS would leave something propriety in WP.

 

[Jas00555]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

I think there are two things at work here:

1) AFAIK, these aren't necessarily apps written for the Apple Watch, but they're merely the same app that is tweaked to work on the Watch. Like, the Apple Watch doesn't have a store per se, but you'll see apps in the App Store "add support". This makes it much easier to make an app than writing a WP app from scratch.

2) Most WP users have low end phones that cost very little. Hell, the Apple Watch costs 5x as much as the most popular WP, the Lumia 520. If you have an Apple Watch, you obviously have a lot of money to waste.

 

[tgp]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

There's more to it than just sheer numbers. It's profitability. Apple users are known to be big spenders. WP & Android users are notoriously stingy. (Developing for Android still pencils because of the huge amount of users). Apple doesn't need the amount of users Microsoft & Google need, because each user (on average) spends more.

I do wish, however, MS would leave something propriety in WP.

As you've heard before, it's market share. Microsoft knows as well as anyone that if if they have a great product, it's practically wasted if they keep it restricted to 2.7% of potential users. Microsoft has found out that proprietary features don't bring users to WP.

 

[Alex Rodriguez Jr.]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

There's more to it than just sheer numbers. It's profitability. Apple users are known to be big spenders. WP & Android users are notoriously stingy. (Developing for Android still pencils because of the huge amount of users). Apple doesn't need the amount of users Microsoft & Google need, because each user (on average) spends more.



As you've heard before, it's market share. Microsoft knows as well as anyone that if if they have a great product, it's practically wasted if they keep it restricted to 2.7% of potential users. Microsoft has found out that proprietary features don't bring users to WP.

I don't think it has anything to do with Window Phone market share anymore. I think it has everything to do with them wanting to be a services company. I wouldn't be surprised if one day we see some crazy ish like iPhone with Bing services, hell, it already basically has them all.


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[FredBloggs007]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

All great comments - thanks. However, if MS are indeed a software and services company first (remember Cloud First, Mobile First) why is there always an app gap and resistance from developers to release software and devices for WP?

 

[Torcher Death]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

All great comments - thanks. However, if MS are indeed a software and services company first (remember CLOUD FIRST, MOBILE FIRST) why is there always an app gap and resistance from developers to release software and devices for WP?

Because their policy is not 'CLOUD FIRST, WINDOWS PHONE FIRST' & since they themselves put WP behind the others OS, how can you expect others to be any different.

 

[Alex Rodriguez Jr.]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

Because their policy is not 'CLOUD FIRST, WINDOWS PHONE FIRST' & since they themselves put WP behind the others OS, how can you expect others to be any different.

Well, their policy is cloud & services first. Services including Windows & Office. The problem is, & this is a very big one, that Windows Phone will never receive the same preferential treatment as Windows until W10 is live on most devices. Then, they could focus on the phone.

Also, just because Microsoft is a services company, it doesn't mean other companies need to support their operating systems with services of their own. Companies are reluctant to create Windows Phone apps because of the obvious lack of profit. W10 should alleviate that by turning the user base into a billion strong. Microsoft needs to hand deliver the development tools to companies like ADT, BofA, Chase & convince them that Windows is still the largest operating system on the planet.


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[theefman]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

This question, and the others like it on this site is redundant. If its seen as ok for Microsoft to develop for the apple watch then its ridiculous to question why a company that makes their living from software shouldn't as well. Why one rule for Microsoft and another for everyone else?

 

[Alex Rodriguez Jr.]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

This question, and the others like it on this site is redundant. If its seen as ok for Microsoft to develop for the apple watch then its ridiculous to question why a company that makes their living from software shouldn't as well. Why one rule for Microsoft and another for everyone else?

You're comparing a company that has been making multi platform software for decades to a 5 year old company. The majority of the apps that people want, such as banking apps, aren't software companies. They are companies that offer services that try to extend their services for customer ease of use. Microsoft's plan to make money - because that's what this is about - is not comparable to other companies. You're like that girlfriend that does something wrong and then replies with "well you left he toilet seat up four weeks ago so I can do this and get away with it"


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[tgp]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

You're comparing a company that has been making multi platform software for decades to a 5 year old company. The majority of the apps that people want, such as banking apps, aren't software companies. They are companies that offer services that try to extend their services for customer ease of use. Microsoft's plan to make money - because that's what this is about - is not comparable to other companies. You're like that girlfriend that does something wrong and then replies with "well you left he toilet seat up four weeks ago so I can do this and get away with it"

What you say sounds logical, but after further thought I don't think it is. :amaze: Microsoft is a software AND services company. A bank offers a service. Snapchat offers a service.

Yes, a bank offers a mobile app to "to extend their services for customer ease of use." Well, aren't Microsoft's apps for the same reason? How many smartphone users do not have a PC where they can access those services? Not many.

 

[Alex Rodriguez Jr.]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

What you say sounds logical, but after further thought I don't think it is. :amaze: Microsoft is a software AND services company. A bank offers a service. Snapchat offers a service.

Yes, a bank offers a mobile app to "to extend their services for customer ease of use." Well, aren't Microsoft's apps for the same reason? How many smartphone users do not have a PC where they can access those services? Not many.

Snapchat wasn't what I was referring to. They are also an infant compared to Microsoft. But their service is strictly software based. Whereas companies like banks or retail stores have physical sites. They can't expend the resources on a platform which isn't growing. I still don't know what snapchat's deal is. But they really don't have many resources to be updating more than two apps from what I understand. Either way, Microsoft's sole business for many years was software and services. Hardware didn't exist. And now it's, arguably, the only windows phone manufacturer that matters. The point that I'm trying to make is that come hell or high water, Microsoft's business is putting their product everywhere. & that means supporting said product. Smaller companies only need to succeed in niche segments.


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[tgp]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

Snapchat wasn't what I was referring to. They are also an infant compared to Microsoft. But their service is strictly software based. Whereas companies like banks or retail stores have physical sites. They can't expend the resources on a platform which isn't growing. I still don't know what snapchat's deal is. But they really don't have many resources to be updating more than two apps from what I understand. Either way, Microsoft's sole business for many years was software and services. Hardware didn't exist. And now it's, arguably, the only windows phone manufacturer that matters. The point that I'm trying to make is that come hell or high water, Microsoft's business is putting their product everywhere. & that means supporting said product. Smaller companies only need to succeed in niche segments.

OK now I'm completely confused! I agree with what theefman posted above about the double standard. You were refuting him. I was refuting you to back up theefman. Now I think I agree with what you said here!

I believe what comes across here on WC is not necessarily questioning why a company would develop for Apple Watch, but rather why they would develop for Apple Watch and at the same time ignore Windows Phone.

Microsoft needs to hand deliver the development tools to companies like ADT, BofA, Chase & convince them that Windows is still the largest operating system on the planet.

...if you call an OS with 14% market share "the largest operating system on the planet." It's not anywhere close. And even if it was, the banks do provide a top notch tool for PCs. It's called a "website." For something like a bank, the desktop market holds little value because those users probably wouldn't use the app anyway.

 

[Alex Rodriguez Jr.]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

OK now I'm completely confused! I agree with what theefman posted above about the double standard. You were refuting him. I was refuting you to back up theefman. Now I think I agree with what you said here!

I believe what comes across here on WC is not necessarily questioning why a company would develop for Apple Watch, but rather why they would develop for Apple Watch and at the same time ignore Windows Phone.



...if you call an OS with 14% market share "the largest operating system on the planet." It's not anywhere close. And even if it was, the banks do provide a top notch tool for PCs. It's called a "website." For something like a bank, the desktop market holds little value because those users probably wouldn't use the app anyway.

The market share which matters to these companies are computer & mobile/tablet, of which Microsoft is still king.


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[Jas00555]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

The market share which matters to these companies are computer & mobile/tablet, of which Microsoft is still king.


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TECHNICALLY, tgp is correct. Market share is sales within a given time period, and Android is winning that battle. If you had said user base, then you would be correct (1.5 billion Windows vs 1.1 billion Android)

 

[Alex Rodriguez Jr.]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

TECHNICALLY, tgp is correct. Market share is sales within a given time period, and Android is winning that battle. If you had said user base, then you would be correct (1.5 billion Windows vs 1.1 billion Android)

You, and the majority of the readers here, obviously understand what I meant lol


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[stephen_az]

Re: The so-called 'app-gap' and how the Apple Watch is getting away with it!

So the usual comment from most developers goes along the lines... "we aren't developing an app / game for WP because the user base is too small..."

Ok, so I can kinda accept this sometimes. However, do you think there are / will be more Apple Watch users than WP users? The reason for asking it that I've just read that Trivia Crack will be developing a version of the app which will run on the Apple Watch. I know that Trivia Crack is available on WP, but I'm assuming (could be wrong) that there are / will be more WP users that Apple Watch users. However, it still appears that developers are being incentivised to side with Apple even though the user base is small - at least for the Apple Watch.

My basic assumptions may be wrong (and I know that Win10 will change the game), but MS really do need to work with developers more to get more and more apps on their platform in the same way that Apple are doing so.

Anyone else agree or have any other opinions on this?

Your underlying assumption is wrong since Windows Phone is a stand alone mobile platform and Apple's Watch is a companion product specifically for iPhone users. It is not the small number of initial watch buyers but the massive potential of all iPhone users being targeted. Long and short of it is there is simply no basis for comparison. Every iPhone user already in the ecosystem could be a watch buyer. Growth in sales of Windows phone comes from people not yet in the smartphone game or people switching from another ecosystem. In terms of balancing risk and reward, supporting Apple's watch is an easy decision whereas supporting a low market share OS trying to grow has far more risk in exchange for only incremental or long term reward. Like it or not, people prefer options that look like an easy win over something where you need to project outwards and assume not yet realized growth to break even....

 

[Mr G Reaper]

Speaking as a developer (a really really novice one) microsoft are not easy to program for, ok lets take an example:
yesterday i learnt that not every phone has an sd card, a big issue as my app saves data to the sd card so that users can access it.
so i decided to allow the user to select a folder, my app is a universal app that means its windows and windows phone, the code for the gui is different but there is also a shared code, on the windows version, getting a folder was easy took 20 minutes to figure out and implement, the same method however was not allowed for windows phone, on a windows phone you have to use a specific method, suspend your app to load this method, allow the user to select the folder then resume your app passing on the folder, it involved a complete rewrite of one of my core classes, two additional classes, and a near rewrite of the gui class for the phone side.... it took all my free time yesterday to achieve (and ill be honest, there is a lot of that code i had to implement that i dont even understand...i hate adding code i dont understand)
The msdn docs are pretty tough on novice coders
The msdn forum is pretty useless, ask for clarification on an msdn doc section you dont understand you will most often get a response linking you to the same doc telling you to read that for help...if you get a response at all.
stackoverflow are pure evil to a novice coder
and there are no alternative help avenues (or very very few)

Then there is the fact microsoft have the monopoly on the store side, if you want to release your app to people it has to be via the store and HAS to be certified, from releasing an update to microsoft to it actually being available can take up to 12 hours (thats the most i have had so far though my most recent update may be trying to beat that record though one stage of certification states "usually takes 5 days")

now android development, its java and apart from my personal hate of how strings are done, its pretty simple. There is help everywhere, tons of very "newb" friendly development forums that will help you get on your feet and explain things, tons od very easy to follow documentation.
There is alternative markets, or you can just send your mate the apk file and he can install it on his phone straight away no problem.

Of apple i know nothing.

These could well be reasons for the difference in numbers between windows phone apps and android.

As for apple watch, developers will know that its the latest craze and will want to cash in on that, i suspect there will be a hell of a lot of apps for it.

Number of users:
my first app has been up a month, i have not advertised it beyond a reddit post and a video of it on youtube, its been downloaded 69 times, thats a lot for a unheard of and niche app (rpg character generator) (only had two people rate the app and not recieved a single donation)
my second edition which i have not yet advertised has had 2 downloads on phone and 1 on windows and has only been up 2 days.
This makes me think the windows phone user base is a lot bigger then most people think.