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  1. a5cent's Avatar
    1GB ram devices = 380MB ram usable for running app. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...vs.105%29.aspx
    Incase you don't know how tumblr work, when you using tumblr app, your phone will keep downloading image everytime you scrolling.
    It just simple math, my internet speed is 3MB/s (25Mbps), so it only took 1 minute and 40 seconds to fill up all 300MB RAM available (80MB for the app) while I'm using the app, now CPU have to process and releasing RAM to make space for the newer data every 1'30", while CPU processing all the image and UI to display => higher CPU usage.
    Unless you have the phone with better CPU or more RAM, then too bad in this situation.
    I'm aware that a 1GB WP device caps an app's memory usage to 380 MB. It doesn't matter. Even with half that amount, the idea that an app couldn't display a list of 2MB images makes no sense. I've done it myself. While the math you've presented isn't wrong, it's in no way an accurate representation of what WP (or any other OS for that matter) does under the hood, neither in terms of memory management nor in terms of how the CPU factors into all this. However, I don't want to argue over why none of that really makes sense. I'd rather just focus on what your tinder developer might do in this particular situation. Here's one approach (there are more):

    a) monitor when the list with images is being scrolled very slowly (or not at all) and determine which low-resolution images are on screen at that time
    b) load into memory the corresponding high-resolution equivalents
    c) fade-in the high-resolution equivalents ontop of their low-resolution equivalents.
    d) unload the high-resolution images as soon as they are scrolled off screen

    If done right, the casual user won't notice what's going on. The user will just enjoy the higher quality images and eventually take it for granted. There'd be a lot more to say about what your tinder developer is likely doing and how this would all work, but it doesn't make sense to get into all the gritty technical details here.

    If this still doesn't convince you, then consider that Android also caps the memory that is made available to an app. This cap can vary widely from one device to the next, and isn't directly connected to the device's RAM capacity like it is on WP. In affect, a 2GB Android device can (and in some situations will) limit an app to less than the 380MB that it would get on a 1GB WP device. My point is that devs deal with the exact same problem on Android. Adding more RAM to an Android device doesn't magically solve this problem any more than it does on a WP device. Both are affected by memory caps and both must deal with having less memory than is desirable without sacrificing quality. Maybe your tinder dev knows his way around Android but is a WP newbie? Certainly possible...

    Except every developer willing to developt app for iPhone and Android, and they're willing to optimized for the iPhone rather than Android. Are you sure that they will take their time to optimized for WP10 app?
    The differences you're noticing in memory usage has, in almost all cases, absolutely nothing to do with how iOS or Android developers do or don't optimize their apps. The differences in memory usage on iOS and Android are primarily a function of the OSes themselves. This revolves around runtime environments (Android has one, iOS doesn't), memory garbage collectors (Android uses one, iOS doesn't) and a few dozen other things that have nothing to do with developer's willingness to optimize.

    The same applies to memory management on WP. Ignoring bugs and the occasional outliers, where some devs really can be exceptionally good or bad at their craft, most differences in memory usage will come down to differences between OSes, not developer "optimizations".

    The point is, I want 1GB should be smooth and enough for WP, and now MS are willing to go after Android which is need more RAM to be better perfomance.
    Oh and I heard from somewhere, Windows 10 will have the VM to run the ported apps from Android, that's why 1GB ram minimum is required and 940 may have 3GB ram.
    All the FUD currently being spread on these forums in regard to how Android apps will run on WP (will it require a VM? Can devs upload their APK? etc) is exactly that. BS. I've yet to see a whitepaper detailing any of this. It's all premature speculation. And again... for the gazillionth time (in general on this forum, not directed at you)... stop worrying about Android apps on WP. Like I said, that's not what people will be porting to WP. 95% of the time it's the iOS apps that we'll be getting, so this stink about the overhead of Android apps on WP is somewhat pointless.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not against WP devices generally shipping with 1GB or more. I'm just pointing out that yours are not the best reasons for doing that.
    xandros9 likes this.
    05-08-2015 07:45 PM
  2. Yazen's Avatar
    Here is some reason why I said that:
    - Some of game and app may crash on my Lumia 830 if I'm using it in a long time.
    - Ported apps from Android aren't be good enough on 1GB ram device : http://forums.windowscentral.com/off...r-wp-ever.html
    - Lumia 940 will have 3GB ram, so the other upcoming devices (lumia 740, 840) in middle-line will have to have at least 1.5-2GB ram, and low-end devices will be the 1GB devices.
    - Microsoft started to dump all 512MB ram devices in store.

    So suddenly my Lumia 830 is no longer an "affortable flagship" and became a "low-end flagship". :(
    Actually 1GB is enough. Ported apps are running WinRT

    EDIT:
    Microsoft is dumping 512MB for several reasons because keeping apps in memory is favorable. There is no reason 512MB devices would not be able to be supported with Microsoft's approach.

    As Microsoft refines and updates their Runtime, Compiling tools, and WP OS you will see the difference!
    Last edited by Yazen; 05-08-2015 at 10:09 PM.
    05-08-2015 09:26 PM
  3. Draconica5's Avatar
    95% of the time it's the iOS apps that we'll be getting, so this stink about the overhead of Android apps on WP is somewhat pointless.
    So you believe that they will bring iOS app to Win10 instead of Android app. Then why're you so sure about that? There's nothing to point out that the flood of Android app won't happen, and same as your belief that 95% app will be from iOS, which is the good thing. Unleast there is or are something I haven't heard about...

    I know we're too soon to speaking about this, but atleast we have to make MS known our concern about the flood of Android app!

    Some personal thought for a5cent:
    I don't know why you're trying so hard to prove me wrong... I seriously don't really care much about all the detail with this and just want to share my concern about this situation. Isn't that the point about this forum? Or is this forum you only allow to flattery MS and Windows? From all the text wall of your I have the feeling about this, I think you don't want any of us discuss any bad thing about this platform at all. I'm not sure why, but your "tinder developer" words kinda offended also, there's no point to sass around here. If It just me then I'm sorry for misunderstanding.
    05-09-2015 01:10 AM
  4. Yazen's Avatar
    So you believe that they will bring iOS app to Win10 instead of Android app. Then why're you so sure about that? There's nothing to point out that the flood of Android app won't happen, and same as your belief that 95% app will be from iOS, which is the good thing. Unleast there is or are something I haven't heard about...

    I know we're too soon to speaking about this, but atleast we have to make MS known our concern about the flood of Android app!

    Some personal thought for a5cent:
    I don't know why you're trying so hard to prove me wrong... I seriously don't really care much about all the detail with this and just want to share my concern about this situation. Isn't that the point about this forum? Or is this forum you only allow to flattery MS and Windows? From all the text wall of your I have the feeling about this, I think you don't want any of us discuss any bad thing about this platform at all. I'm not sure why, but your "tinder developer" words kinda offended also, there's no point to sass around here. If It just me then I'm sorry for misunderstanding.
    There is not a singleAndroid/iOS app on WP. The interfaces of Android/iOS/WP are similar, and Microsoft is providing tools to help apps to their platform using Android/iOS API.

    Memory consumption will definitely be greater with WinRT apps, so that would be a slight concern for people with 512MB devices.

    Worst case scenario IE will dump tabs in memory and will need to refresh them lol
    05-09-2015 03:09 AM
  5. a5cent's Avatar
    So you believe that they will bring iOS app to Win10 instead of Android app. Then why're you so sure about that? There's nothing to point out that the flood of Android app won't happen, and same as your belief that 95% app will be from iOS, which is the good thing. Unleast there is or are something I haven't heard about...
    I suspect you and many others are focused on Android apps because that's what we've been hearing about for quite some time now. Maybe it's also because other OSes like BB or sailfish can already run Android apps, and we just aren't accustomed to thinking that foreign apps might come to WP from somewhere else other than Android. I don't know.

    Anyway, if both iOS and Android apps could be automatically ported to WP by the press of a button, and there was absolutely no difference between either approach, then we could safely assume we'd get both iOS and Android apps in equal amounts. Then you and I would both be wrong.

    It's just not true that there will be no differences. For example, apps ported from iOS will not require the support of a security container at runtime (some form of emulation), nor will they require a runtime environment like ART or MS' CLR. Those are already two huge reasons to prefer the iOS apps as a starting point, simply because developers can expect better performance and won't have to spend as much time troubleshooting performance issues. Another issue that will have some affect are the conceptual differences between Android and iOS/WP. No porting tool, no matter how good, can make all of those differences inherent to Android disappear. That means all but the most trivial apps being ported from Android will require more manual adaptations. Add these issues together, and you get better runtime performance at a cheaper porting cost, when porting from iOS rather than Android. That already seals the deal for almost all developers.

    Finally, at the build conference, the crowning W10 announcement that MS worked themselves towards, was the ability to recompile iOS apps for W10 (not the ability to port Android apps). The fact that MS already has their iOS porting tools out in the field and that the iOS Candy Crush port is already in the WP store, further hints at which approach MS deems more important. I already explained why above. I also recall an MS employee stating that they thought long and hard whether they need the ability to port Android apps at all, but they eventually decided to do it because iOS doesn't play a role in many of the low-end markets WP is trying to win over. It's only in those situations, when there is no iOS app to use, when MS will recommend using the Android porting tools.

    Most of us in these forums live in western societies. There are likely few apps we'd want which exist only for Android but not for iOS. That's why most of the developers making the apps that we in these forums use, will have a choice between one of two starting points. That's why most of those will chose iOS as their starting point.

    So yes, while I won't be surprised if ported Android apps require more memory than their WP or iOS counterparts, saying that 1GB devices are outdated because of this seems very premature to me. If we were talking about 512 MB devices being sold in developing markets where iOS has 0% market share, then I'd say you have a point. Maybe that's why MS has stopped producing 512MB devices. That's just not the topic of this thread.

    Some personal thought for a5cent:
    I don't know why you're trying so hard to prove me wrong... I seriously don't really care much about all the detail with this and just want to share my concern about this situation.
    Because you are wrong, and because despite claiming that you don't care about the technical details of memory management, your entire argument rests on your incomplete understanding of precisely such details. I'm trying to convince you that while it's fine to want more RAM, you're not doing so for sensible reasons. I have nothing against you personally. I just want to help the WP community evolve a better understanding of what these devices do, how they work, and what's important and what isn't. In this case having more than 1GB of RAM isn't that important, at least not for the mentioned reasons.
    Yazen, Raj Poladia and HeyCori like this.
    05-09-2015 06:08 AM
  6. Yazen's Avatar
    Porting from iOS to WinRT is the job of the developer. All this talk about memory consumption should be transparent to consumers. ;)

    This is not an automagical process... At least not yet it is
    05-09-2015 09:06 AM
  7. startrunner's Avatar
    That is simply not true. Apps don't run simoultaniously, unlike Android which still runs kinda good even on 1GB of RAM. Any decent non-game app will not use more than 300MB of memory. Did you forget to turn off background services on your phone from the Battery Saver app? Even the ones that are said to have a 0% usage slow your phone down. My Lumia 520 still runs smoothly.
    05-09-2015 12:42 PM
  8. Neyney10's Avatar
    My friends phone I galaxy s3 and have it over 2 years now. He can run WhatsApp, facebook, facebook messenger and a browser smoothly and fast, and yea, this android have only 1gb of ram.
    colinkiama likes this.
    05-09-2015 12:57 PM
  9. manus31's Avatar
    I'm not sure if 1 gb devices are doomed just yet.Windows 10 will run fine regardless.Ram is only the amount of memory in use at any one time. A gig is enough for mobiles.The iphone 6 has the same.I would be more inclined to say that phones with snapdragon 400 series processors are no longer enough
    05-09-2015 02:01 PM
  10. wuiyang's Avatar
    Last but not least, I doubt we'll be getting many Android apps at all. Those that are ported to WP will almost all come to us from iOS.
    At least not RAM eater app... and ios also has limited access to the OS too, same as Windows Phone. Seems logic to me
    Malcolm Rodrigues likes this.
    05-10-2015 05:27 AM
  11. rhapdog's Avatar
    There is not a singleAndroid/iOS app on WP. The interfaces of Android/iOS/WP are similar, and Microsoft is providing tools to help apps to their platform using Android/iOS API.

    Memory consumption will definitely be greater with WinRT apps, so that would be a slight concern for people with 512MB devices.
    Candy Crush Saga was ported from iOS using Microsoft's new tool. How can you say there is not a single Android/iOS app on WP?
    Candy Crush Saga also runs awesome on 512MB devices.
    HeyCori and Mach_E like this.
    05-10-2015 09:34 AM
  12. xandros9's Avatar
    Candy Crush Saga was ported from iOS using Microsoft's new tool. How can you say there is not a single Android/iOS app on WP?
    Candy Crush Saga also runs awesome on 512MB devices.
    worth noting that I believe my sister plays it avidly on her iPhone 4 to this day.
    Mach_E likes this.
    05-10-2015 09:50 AM
  13. D M C's Avatar
    Candy Crush Saga was ported from iOS using Microsoft's new tool. How can you say there is not a single Android/iOS app on WP?
    Candy Crush Saga also runs awesome on 512MB devices.
    You are kidding right ? Sir

    If not then let me tell you it barely runs on 512MB RAM WP devices.
    It run normally in her slow motion(animation) and not to mention if switch to other task or lock your screen while playing. This game will restart.
    And
    I apologize in advance if your comment was sarcasm.
    fdalbor likes this.
    05-10-2015 10:07 AM
  14. rhapdog's Avatar
    You are kidding right ? Sir

    If not then let me tell you it barely runs on 512MB RAM WP devices.
    It run normally in her slow motion(animation) and not to mention if switch to other task or lock your screen while playing. This game will restart.
    And
    I apologize in advance if your comment was sarcasm.
    Perhaps it doesn't run well on low processor powered devices, but Lumia 635 is fine. It's not the RAM a game needs as much as CPU/GPU.
    a5cent and Yazen like this.
    05-10-2015 10:11 AM
  15. D M C's Avatar
    Perhaps it doesn't run well on low processor powered devices, but Lumia 635 is fine. It's not the RAM a game needs as much as CPU/GPU.
    Ok that may may be the case.
    It look like my prehistoric Lumia 620 doesn't have enough power to run CCS.
    I apologize again.
    05-10-2015 10:16 AM
  16. colinkiama's Avatar
    I'm not sure if 1 gb devices are doomed just yet.Windows 10 will run fine regardless.Ram is only the amount of memory in use at any one time. A gig is enough for mobiles.The iphone 6 has the same.I would be more inclined to say that phones with snapdragon 400 series processors are no longer enough
    The windows 10 mobile tech preview started on s400 phones. Of course its enough
    05-10-2015 10:19 AM
  17. VARUNGUPTA16061992's Avatar
    My exp on L535 is bit bitter ... Same was on L620 post 8.1 update... I think MS must again focus on user performance front as they used to...! Or may b we need more RAM!!!
    05-10-2015 10:39 AM
  18. a5cent's Avatar
    My exp on L535 is bit bitter ... Same was on L620 post 8.1 update... I think MS must again focus on user performance front as they used to...! Or may b we need more RAM!!!

    If you're using a L535, there are definitely good reasons to want more RAM, but this thread is NOT about any of the lower end devices with 512MB RAM. It's about how much 1GB devices would benefit from a bump to 1.5 or 2GB. Keep the thread on topic please.

    RAM is one of those things where having more of it has huge benefits, if your device is constantly struggling for RAM space. Once a device has enough to avoid that struggle 95% of the time, adding more RAM does little, and after some point, adding even more will improve absolutely nothing.
    xandros9 likes this.
    05-10-2015 04:04 PM
  19. bijak_riyandi's Avatar
    No, I'm using only 1 app at a time. And you said that obvious and that means you knew I already know that, right?
    you can't generalize performance of some apps that's being used in a long time to the overall performance of the device/ecosystem
    05-10-2015 05:00 PM
  20. Yazen's Avatar
    Candy Crush Saga was ported from iOS using Microsoft's new tool. How can you say there is not a single Android/iOS app on WP?
    Candy Crush Saga also runs awesome on 512MB devices.
    Not running through an emulator of any sort. Thought the term "porting" gave that away xD
    In an ideal situation, Candy Crush source code went through a program that matched certain iOS API to WP equivalents. Therefore in a sense, Candy Crush is native to WP.

    EDIT: iOS code is matched to WinRT implementations. Ultimately there will need to be some manual work on the view component, but this software will be a boon to smart developers.
    Last edited by Yazen; 05-10-2015 at 09:01 PM.
    a5cent likes this.
    05-10-2015 08:03 PM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ I agree.

    For Android sourced apps, rhapdog may still have a point however, because those apps, even after their conversion, still require runtime support and apparently some form of emulation to function (their security container). They are somewhat of an Android/WP Chimera.

    For apps ported from iOS I absolutely agree though. Calling them iOS apps after their conversion is at least very misleading.
    05-11-2015 01:22 AM
  22. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Not running through an emulator of any sort. Thought the term "porting" gave that away xD
    In an ideal situation, Candy Crush source code went through a program that matched certain iOS API to WP equivalents. Therefore in a sense, Candy Crush is native to WP.

    EDIT: iOS code is matched to WinRT implementations. Ultimately there will need to be some manual work on the view component, but this software will be a boon to smart developers.

    When a user launches an iOS app in WP, the Objective-C runtime has to be loaded and many iOS libraries. If after that the user launches an Android app, the Android runtime has to be loaded and many Android libraries. The same for Windows apps and HTML5 apps.
    In devices with low ram these component can't be cached and performance could suffer, a lot of long Loading/Resuming screens.

    ...

    I think most of the apps ported to WP will be Android apps because they require less changes or no changes at all to the original code base. iOS apps require more work and a bigger divergence in the code base.
    05-11-2015 11:01 AM
  23. colinkiama's Avatar
    When a user launches an iOS app in WP, the Objective-C runtime has to be loaded and many iOS libraries. If after that the user launches an Android app, the Android runtime has to be loaded and many Android libraries. The same for Windows apps and HTML5 apps.
    In devices with low ram these component can't be cached and performance could suffer, a lot of long Loading/Resuming screens.

    ...

    I think most of the apps ported to WP will be Android apps because they require less changes or no changes at all to the original code base. iOS apps require more work and a bigger divergence in the code base.
    I agree, this is Most likely going to happen but we should wait to see how the android and IOS apps will run on 512mb devices
    05-11-2015 11:33 AM
  24. Wbutchart1's Avatar
    If you're using a L535, there are definitely good reasons to want more RAM, but this thread is NOT about any of the lower end devices with 512MB RAM. It's about how much 1GB devices would benefit from a bump to 1.5 or 2GB. Keep the thread on topic please.

    RAM is one of those things where having more of it has huge benefits, if your device is constantly struggling for RAM space. Once a device has enough to avoid that struggle 95% of the time, adding more RAM does little, and after some point, adding even more will improve absolutely nothing.
    Errr, the L535 does have 1gb ram, low end perhaps but it's not a 512 device.
    05-11-2015 12:51 PM
  25. Br1t's Avatar
    We are all running the same OS yet WP scales it's memory use depending on available memory. The MS app field medic will show you what's available and what's being used. On my 2gb M8, 1.5 of it is in use, so the answer is more memory helps but not required. Going forward into W10 more required memory is still just an assumption currently, but it makes sense to think the OS will scale with the hardware available at the time.
    05-11-2015 01:14 PM
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