[Ten Four]

I wonder what the Continuum docking device will cost? Anyone heard that yet. I'm beginning to wonder if I have underestimated the appeal of Continuum, including for myself. That tiny dock looked pretty neat in the photo I saw. Here's the scenario I can envision now. Someone is in the market for a new PC for home use and sees that they can get a pretty sweet phone and this little dock, then also have a nice Windows 10 PC using their old monitor, keyboard, and mouse. The typical person doesn't really need a desktop PC at home anymore, but a laptop or even the Surface is also overkill. However, once in awhile they need the big computer to do taxes, write a resume, work on a spreadsheet, or even surf the web at a decent size with everything working properly. A 950 or 950XL plus Continuum might be just the trick for that person, and they get a nice phone with a great camera too for less than the cost of a decent PC.

[xmai77]

Selling at zero profit or less means MS would remove any and all profit potential from the WP hardware market. This would make MS the scourge of the industry and draw the ire of companies who rely on smartphone profits to survive. By killing the profit potential in the WP market, MS would also turn away any OEMs currently thinking of releasing a WP device. I personally don't find engagement by other OEMs important, but many others here do.

If MS wants other OEMs to engage, they must take the exact opposite approach, by asking well above average prices.

I actually question whether MS is earning any money on these at all, even at $700. There is no set price at which a phone is guaranteed to make a profit, as it must first recoup the hundreds of millions MS invests in software and hardware engineering. That means the only way to make a profit is by selling high-end devices, with high margins, in large numbers... something high-end Lumias don't typically do.

Assuming these won't sell in large numbers, it's safe to say these devices are already losing MS money at almost any price. IMHO the question is not whether MS should be prepared to lose money, but how much?

I do think they must come in below the price of an iPhone, but expecting MS to go much lower isn't fair either.

Either way, chasing market share is not W10M's goal. Even if it was, it would be far more reasonable to do that with low end devices.

Not necessarily. The same things were said when Google decided to release the Nexus line of phones but it worked out. I'm sure it did hurt the other OEMs but many are thriving despite the presence of the Nexus phones in the market. I think Microsoft needs to do the same thing and release a flagship phone at a lower cost than other flagships in order to grab market share. I feel one-two punch that the Nexus phones and budget Android devices provided really propelled Android to it's current standing on the market.

[KarateDad]

So, now that we know the pricing, $649 for the 950XL, what do you think? The iPhone 6s Plus is $749. The Galaxy 6S Edge+ is $815.

Probably not a loss leader for Microsoft, but definitely cheaper than the competition.

[xboxnerd]

Hey, good guess! It ended up being $549 and $649. I personally think they needed to be at least $100 below that to compete. But it's not a crazy price at least like it would've been if they priced it like the S6 Edge Plus or iPhone 6 Plus.

Cheaper than I guessed! I am now seriously considering getting a 950 early next year.

[melhiore]

Now we know the pricing. Good. If 950XL will be selling for 530 ish w/o any accessories I will be getting an iPhone soon... Microsoft set the price slightly too high for the phone that does not have any ecosystem behind it...

[mertzi]

Although I don't think MS sees the nexus line as competition (even if they should) they could've matched the prices of 6P and the XL. I think a lot of potential buyers actually are those who would buy a Nexus and not an S6 or iphone 6S because they are tech enthusiasts. Those choosing Samsung or Apple don't even know Microsoft makes phones.

[vEEP pEEP]

I'd love to buy a cheap high end phone!!!

But it makes no sense for MS to lose money on this.

People line up a day in advance to pay top dollar for an Iphone - MS should work on getting an image like that. Not dropping prices.

Pump out those Universal Apps, kick @$$ on the Surface 4, market that Holo tech - and WP will get market share.

[Udonitron]

I highly doubt they are losing $ on the Lumia's.
If the new iPhone costs Apple $230 to make then surely this is not costing MS much more.
They could have asked slightly less...they will more than make up for it with the Sur Facebook.

[KarateDad]

I am wondering if i could travel with just an 950XL, dock and keyboard/mouse. Then connect to the clients monitor. Would make traveling a whole lot easier. Could even connect to the TV in the hotel room, and watch Netflix without having to rely on the crappy wifi at most hotels.

Then again, a Surface book sounds intriguing too.

[Aquila]

I am wondering if i could travel with just an 950XL, dock and keyboard/mouse. Then connect to the clients monitor. Would make traveling a whole lot easier. Could even connect to the TV in the hotel room, and watch Netflix without having to rely on the crappy wifi at most hotels.

Then again, a Surface book sounds intriguing too.

Several hotels that I have been to recently disable the ability to switch inputs away from their dedicated cable input. They have HDMI ports, but they're useless. I wouldn't bank on that functionality. The rest sounds like it'll work.

[luxnws]

I highly doubt they are losing $ on the Lumia's.
If the new iPhone costs Apple $230 to make then surely this is not costing MS much more.
They could have asked slightly less...they will more than make up for it with the Sur Facebook.

They didn't price the phones to fly off the shelves, that's for sure. Looks more like the flagships are intended for business use as in companies that want all Microsoft solutions from top to bottom.

[a5cent]

Selling at zero profit or less means MS would remove any and all profit potential from the WP hardware market. This would make MS the scourge of the industry and draw the ire of companies who rely on smartphone profits to survive. By killing the profit potential in the WP market, MS would also turn away any OEMs currently thinking of releasing a WP device. I personally don't find engagement by other OEMs important, but many others here do.

Not necessarily. The same things were said when Google decided to release the Nexus line of phones but it worked out. I'm sure it did hurt the other OEMs but many are thriving despite the presence of the Nexus phones in the market.

In the WP market, where MS makes over 95% of the sales with their Lumia line, Lumias selling at cost or below would absolutely and necessarily mean game over for anyone else. Yes... necessarily.

[SillyBirds]

Expensive here in France: 599€ for the 950, 699€ for the 950 XL

[zkyevolved]

Expensive here in France: 599€ for the 950, 699€ for the 950 XL

Are those the official European prices? Because I think for another 50 euros I'd buy an iPhone with 64 gb of space. I really like the 950XL though. Hopefully prices will drop rather quickly! haha. It looks nice and stable!

[Jakoh]

Are those the official European prices? Because I think for another 50 euros I'd buy an iPhone with 64 gb of space. I really like the 950XL though. Hopefully prices will drop rather quickly! haha. It looks nice and stable!

But isn't the hardware better than the iPhone?

[imnotevenhererightnow]

So, now that we know the pricing, $649 for the 950XL, what do you think? The iPhone 6s Plus is $749. The Galaxy 6S Edge+ is $815.

Probably not a loss leader for Microsoft, but definitely cheaper than the competition.

The Edge+ is $699 unlocked for the 32GB version.

[SillyBirds]

Are those the official European prices? Because I think for another 50 euros I'd buy an iPhone with 64 gb of space. I really like the 950XL though. Hopefully prices will drop rather quickly! haha. It looks nice and stable!

Those are the prices from the French press release, so it applies only to France.

[zkyevolved]

The Edge+ is $699 unlocked for the 32GB version.

note 5 is 883 euros for the cheapest version :P Just saying.

[zkyevolved]

Those are the prices from the French press release, so it applies only to France.

Hmmm... Let's see what the price is here in Spain ... It'll probably be the same, being neighbors and all.

[zkyevolved]

But isn't the hardware better than the iPhone?

Yes, but iPhone has a more well established market for apps, track record, and, generally speaking, I believe people are happy with customer support for iPhones. I had an iPhone 4, and they shipped me new devices really quickly without having to pre-send my messed up iPhone. Then again, my iPhone was the only device I have ever had to return due to some kind of error xD...

Regardless, I think buck for buck, an iPhone is a more stable bet. But I'm not an iPhone goer! But I can see most people going into a shop and seeing "what? for 50 euros more I can get the most desired and popular phone on the planet that has a huge app ecosystem? I'll take that please!" rather than "Hmm.. Microsoft's first phone... Missing most of my apps... Will have to rebuy the ones it does have... Slower support. I don't know how Microsoft will handle my claims if my device breaks down..."

I know I know. This is a Windows forum! I'm all for windows! I'm just not so sure about pricing compared to other flagships .... I'll wait until the price drops and then buy that beautiful 950XL :)

[Closingracer]

Sold at a loss? No. On a video game console you have $60 games, subscription services and other ways to make up for that loss. With $1 apps it's going to be a long time before Microsoft makes up the difference. Instead I think MS should price it as close to the manufacturing cost as they can. Basically, if it costs $500 to make then sell it for $550. Don't sell it for $700, shoot for market share instead.

Now if we're talking cheap devices (below the $100 dollar mark) selling at a loss probably isn't that bad of an idea.

Yeah but xbox is selling albeit slower which is the reason for the price cut. At this time I think more users is more of a priority then making a profit so selling it for a loss for the sake of getting more users could be a good thing if a ton of people buy it which I doubt unless Apple or Samsung does something terrible in security


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gordon Jones1]

Remember HP and the Touchypad? WebOS everyone? Great device for new product but priced the same as other tablets in the market. After 1 month, stopped making them and declared out of the phone/tablet business, lost 30% of their market value.

Windows should strongly consider a lower price point or sub cost on the high end phones. Keep the margins on entry level, low end phones. Build the base of owners/users. Larger share of the market will result in apps being developed.
Work out exclusive deals with streaming services.
Heck, reduced Netflix, free Netflix, amazon prime, etc.
This will result in larger market share of phones making it more attractive to app builders.

[Jakoh]

I know I know. This is a Windows forum! I'm all for windows! I'm just not so sure about pricing compared to other flagships .... I'll wait until the price drops and then buy that beautiful 950XL :)

To be honest, compared to other flagships, the price is good. Nexus 6P is only $50 cheaper at release, and Lumia 950xl has a better camera (f/1.9 vs f/2.0), support for continuum.

However much i hate, I understand that apps make people run. So i support your decision to go with an iphone. Hopefully, one of M$'s new tools can deliver:
1. cross compiling tools for IOS/android apps!
2. universal win 10 apps.

[slivy58]

Remember HP and the Touchypad? WebOS everyone? Great device for new product but priced the same as other tablets in the market. After 1 month, stopped making them and declared out of the phone/tablet business, lost 30% of their market value.

Windows should strongly consider a lower price point or sub cost on the high end phones. Keep the margins on entry level, low end phones. Build the base of owners/users. Larger share of the market will result in apps being developed.
Work out exclusive deals with streaming services.
Heck, reduced Netflix, free Netflix, amazon prime, etc.
This will result in larger market share of phones making it more attractive to app builders.

Shhhh have to be quiet, my comments today during the event appeared to be getting deleted LOL...

Back on track... I remember the TouchPad well, RIP Lil Buddy lol.... Oh ya, forgot about the BB PlayBook, double RIP ;-)


Because we're not "there" yet phone/OS wise one has to wonder about their pricing strategy, don't think it is hugely overpriced but definitely could have been better. I'm waiting to see what our carriers do here in Canada along with availability elsewhere, that will speak louder than anything else can as to the direction we are heading.

[Laura Knotek]

Remember HP and the Touchypad? WebOS everyone? Great device for new product but priced the same as other tablets in the market. After 1 month, stopped making them and declared out of the phone/tablet business, lost 30% of their market value.

That debacle had more to do with issues with HP's management.