[the1]

That debacle had more to do with issues with HP's management.

You took the words right out of my mouth. HP's management was a trainwreck.

Back on topic, I see nothing wrong with the price. I honestly think most people talking about it should be lower because they just want a reason to get a cheap phone, not for the sake of the company or anything like that. But it is what it is.

[slivy58]

That debacle had more to do with issues with HP's management.

Maybe so, but I think the point being, there can be more than one entity that can cause the demise of a product, company and so fourth.

[Laura Knotek]

Maybe so, but I think the point being, there can be more than one entity that can cause the demise of a product, company and so fourth.

That's true.

Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) running Stock/AOSP (Android 6.0 Marshmallow) ElementalX-N7-5.00 using Tapatalk

[tgp]

That debacle had more to do with issues with HP's management.

I managed to get an HP Touchpad when they were being liquidated. I soon gave up using WebOS. I couldn't find any apps! It reminds me of when I started using WP about 3 years ago.

FWIW, I still have the Touchpad. I flashed it to Android, and for awhile it was dual booting WebOS and Android. I don't use it much anymore, but it still works.

[the1]

I managed to get an HP Touchpad when they were being liquidated. I soon gave up using WebOS. I couldn't find any apps! It reminds me of when I started using WP about 3 years ago.

FWIW, I still have the Touchpad. I flashed it to Android, and for awhile it was dual booting WebOS and Android. I don't use it much anymore, but it still works.

I did the same thing and loved WebOS. Talk about an OS that was shunned until the pilfered features showed up on their OS of choice..lol

[Laura Knotek]

I managed to get an HP Touchpad when they were being liquidated. I soon gave up using WebOS. I couldn't find any apps! It reminds me of when I started using WP about 3 years ago.

FWIW, I still have the Touchpad. I flashed it to Android, and for awhile it was dual booting WebOS and Android. I don't use it much anymore, but it still works.

I know someone from one of my local Linux User Groups who has an HP Touchpad that he got during the fire sale. He dual boots webOS and Android.

Sent from my rooted Nexus 7 (2013) running Stock/AOSP (Android 6.0 Marshmallow) ElementalX-N7-5.00 using Tapatalk

[Laura Knotek]

I did the same thing and loved WebOS. Talk about an OS that was shunned until the pilfered features showed up on their OS of choice..lol

This is a great podcast. Vector 44: The legacy of webOS | iMore

[tgp]

I did the same thing and loved WebOS.

I really like Web OS as well. Its circumstances remind me a lot of WP: a great OS, but hamstrung by the lack of apps.

He dual boots webOS and Android.

I dual booted WebOS and Android until I did an update that broke the dual boot. Since I almost never used WebOS anyway, I just flashed the entire drive to the Android partition and didn't reinstall WebOS.

[Closingracer]

You took the words right out of my mouth. HP's management was a trainwreck.

Back on topic, I see nothing wrong with the price. I honestly think most people talking about it should be lower because they just want a reason to get a cheap phone, not for the sake of the company or anything like that. But it is what it is.

The problem with price is simple. While it's fair price for the specs the thing is if you have the iPhone 6s plus at a base price of $749 , Samsung Galaxy Note 5 at or around $700, nexus 6p at $450 base and LG V4 or whatever their new phone is arounf the same price people will be getting those over windows phones. It can't compete and so far has proven it can't. Lowering it to $500 for the xl is reasonable for people to consider it


Lack of carriers also hurt it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tien-Lin Chang]

But isn't the hardware better than the iPhone?

Not really :

SoC - Apple A9 is almost twice as fast as Exynos 7420 in single-core task and on par in multi-core task

storage - the 6s got NVMe NAND which also faster than any other solution on the mobile market now, internal storage also much satble and safer than SD card.
iPhone 6s and iPhone 6s Plus Preliminary Results
RAM - 950/XL got larger RAM but it's different system but from WP8/8.1 I don't feel WP managing RAM better than iOS and we know W10M have more functionality it will consume more, I'll leave it to reviewers.

The 950/XL are better in its 2k screen and higher res camera - however MSFT is hesitated to mention if it has PDAF which a very important feature after OIS.

[Mark Wright1]

The price is well retail...
look at the original 640 retail yet you get it for $80 in the US.
There is just too much variation from what you "can" pay and their listed price.
Actually I don't think its unreasonable for the HW. and the camera(950) is always a unique piece of kit and not some generic sensor others just slap in.

[GCrane1982]

Someone has already pointed this out but R&D costs are a fixed cost overhead which has already been spent and factored into the companies budget/finances. So if anything the higher price point tells me that Microsoft is not expecting to sell large volumes of these devices, they are keepoing people happy by releasing a flagship but at the same time trying to extract as much profit as they can out of each individual device. I also don't think they are too concerned about recouping the R&D costs, Microsoft would be spending billions on many different R&D projects each year that never see the light of day. So what is their tactic? Who knows

As an example of the cost benefits to Microsoft, lets say the cost of the parts in these devices are somewhere around $230.00 which is apparently similar to the iPhone 6S, add a further $20.00 to offset Apples volume purchasing discounts on the parts, add a further $15 for manufacturing costs (assembly and testing) and a further $5.00 for shipping and you have a cost base of approx. $270 per device to get the devices into retailers hands.

If Microsoft has already spent $200 million on R&D to develop these devices and would spend a further $200 million on marketing them, it would only cost them $400 million in total in fixed overhead costs. So, how many devices and at what margins does Microsoft need to obtain to recoup these costs and turn a profit. If they can sell 5 million units per quarter over a year, which looks to be achievable based on previous WP sales volumes, they would sell a total of around 20 million units in a year. So to break even they would only need to sell these devices for around $290.00 each.

Why don't they sell them for $325.00 with a RRP of around between $375 and $425? This would generate $35.00 profit per device or $700 million over a 12 month period. This $700 million could be kept as profit or could be channelled back into additional marketing or bundling accessories and services and further driving sales and market share.

The only reason I can think for the higher price is due to the fact that they do not want to discourage other OEM's from creating Windows 10 mobile devices, but who would they be discouraging? The only OEM's that would have any impact on significant sales volumes would be the big players such as HTC, Samsung, Sony, the problem is that none of them so far have committed to build any high end Windows 10 devices. Secondly i don't think they would be worried about Microsoft releasing a high end low cost handset, the Nexus handsets haven't stopped them, either has the OnePlus One handsets. These big OEM's will make handsets for whatever platform they see as viable and can produce a profit for them and until the Windows 10 market share grows this is not going to happen.

At the end of the day these handsets at these prices will not compete with iPhone or any similarly priced Android devices. The only people buying them will be the Microsoft fans that already have a Windows Phone. The result being that the market share will only reduce or at best stay the same as it current is.

[zkyevolved]

To be honest, compared to other flagships, the price is good. Nexus 6P is only $50 cheaper at release, and Lumia 950xl has a better camera (f/1.9 vs f/2.0), support for continuum.

However much i hate, I understand that apps make people run. So i support your decision to go with an iphone. Hopefully, one of M$'s new tools can deliver:
1. cross compiling tools for IOS/android apps!
2. universal win 10 apps.

Noooooooooo! Don't get the wrong idea! The iPhone is NOT for me! I'm just saying that being that close in price, I think a lot of people would go for the "status symbol brand" over the newbie on the block! I'm very excited for the 950XL. I will def. buy it and try it out. If it doesn't work for me, then I'll return it. But I'm def. not an iPhone person! Far too closed for my taste. My Lumia 1520 and 930 were great devices (930 had bad battery life and made my palms sweaty daily). This might be the next best device :D

[zkyevolved]

Expensive here in France: 599€ for the 950, 699€ for the 950 XL

Prices for Spain are 650 and 750 euros. Kind of out of my range of money I'd like to pay. I think I'll wait for prices to drop on Amazon a bit! haha. I'm quite happy with my LG G4, but I really want to give Microsoft's device a chance.

[CygnusOrion]

Absolutely not. Microsoft is not Acer. They are in this to make mega-profits, not just survive.

[pjm1891]

I don't get how the price can differ in countries that all use the euro.

[RainbowHurricane]

Been thinking about initial retail.

Perhaps a price in the premium range would drive interest.
If interested consumers on the edge were sparked by a proposed cost comparable to other premium devices maybe people looking for different would turn their heads.

To some it's all about the OS.
To others it's all about the hardware.

Hard to say what may drive number three to the top.
I honestly believe "established" doesn't mean eternal.

I think that these phones do need to be $100 cheaper because you can get cheaper phones like One Plus Two and Moto X which are flag ship phones at premium prices. Hopefully they will put them on permanent sale in November for Christmas.

Microsoft spent too much time talking about Contiuum in the Presentation. This is something that will only appeal to a few Programmers.
Kids are looking forward to doing Excel with their phones. Microsoft still needs someone up top that understands the personal, consumer experience.

Its really disappointing that there was no replacement for the 1020. That they could price at $649.

[Zulfigar]

I don't get how the price can differ in countries that all use the euro.

Taxes.

[april1dorlarpor]

in nigeria where i live most people won't go for windows phone. they complain it's kinda complex and expensive i'm getting a 535 or 532 very soon, 950 and 950xl costs over 100 grands

[HoosierDaddy]

Okay, when God was about to release the frog, it made sense to discuss if the frog should have wings so it didn't bump its **** hopping. But after it was decided, not much point to keep debating. Same with this thread. The MSRP price was announced. Story closed.

[kpluck]

So, now that we know the pricing, $649 for the 950XL, what do you think?.

I think it is priced like an Android device, not a phone running an OS with a tiny percentage of the market. I don't think the price is unreasonable but it is too high for price to be a reason to switch to WP from Android or iOS and frankly, MS needs all the reasons it can get.

Maybe battery life will be outstanding. Maybe the camera will be class leading. As someone interested in the 950XL with a Nexus 6P on preorder, both those things will have to be true for me to cancel my preorder and I will need to see reviews saying that before my 6P ships the first week of November.

Clock is ticking.

-kpluck

[Ten Four]

As a Lumia fan, I hate to say it but the app gap will determine the fate of windows mobile. Hardware is exciting and attractive, but most people will still choose a phone that has their local bank app available and that will not be Windows, sadly.

[a5cent]

Taxes.

I live in a country with one of the lowest sales tax rates in Europe (>10% lower than in Germany), yet the products are never cheaper. Almost all the official importers (company subsidiaries) slap on a higher price tag to "compensate" for the lower taxes. It makes no difference.

It's not so much taxes, as it is companies setting the highest possible price that will just manage to not negatively impact sales volume. That's it.

[Feoray]

Charging over $500 for a phone that can't even get bank apps. lol what a joke. Of course they are too expensive.

[DracheMitch]

It doesn't cost $500 to make. The iPhone 6/6+ cost less than $250.