10-08-2015 10:02 PM
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  1. gourav mopidevi's Avatar
    first Microsoft should decide what it wants to sell is it windows phone 10/hardware.......there wont be any loss they must lower their profit margin for each device they sell same like xiaomi/one plus one other Chinese oems are practising this method and I feel its good as our competition is with android right now not with iPhone initially Samsung release flagship for high price but after 3months it drops its price drastically where as Chinese oem release their device with same spec at lower price and they maintain initially released price for device life cycle with only slight 1/2 drops in price......this method works only for unlocked device(so no carrier devices) for carrier devices/countries they can build two flagship one for carrier countries another one for no carrier countries...for carrier countries they must build premium device for premium price where as for no carrier countries they must introduce some ugly device like L950 with same hardware like in premium device....after device cycle without wasting resources on no carrier countries they must release same premium device with upgrade specs and concentrate on carrier countries.......
    10-03-2015 01:59 PM
  2. 920Walker's Avatar
    Samsung is spending a big amount for the promotion of its Galaxy S6, S6 Edge and Note lineup. All these are Samsung's Flagship devices. Microsoft have Lumia Icon, Lumia 930 and Lumia 1520 to compete with Samsung's Galaxy and Note lineup. But, have you ever seen any advertisement to promote these Lumia flagships? Microsoft is busy in promoting Lumia 540, 630 and 535 like low end devices. You are promoting your low cost devices and want profit from your Flagships. Is this right?

    .
    The Lumia Icon and 1020 were heavily advertised on TV in the US. They are the most recent flagships. The 1520 is huge and at the time was more of a niche product. I'm not sure if Nokia or MS were more responsible for the ads.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    10-03-2015 02:33 PM
  3. phelme's Avatar
    There seems to be a misconception as to the measurement of an item's value. The value is not the cost of production plus a little markup for profit. Any retailer will tell you that the value of an item is what the consumer is willing to pay for it.
    ...
    If Apple can sell 13 million iPhones in one weekend for $800 each, then obviously the value is there.
    Leo LaPorte and panel on TWiT.tv last weekend made the observation that the iPhone is now seen as a full-on fashion accessory and Apple is marketing and pricing it accordingly.

    Microsoft has no such luxury, though the TSA agent at Boston-Logan who went through my backpack a couple days ago was quite impressed with the size of my 1520 and declared it the largest phone he's ever seen... so there's that.
    10-03-2015 03:03 PM
  4. phelme's Avatar
    The Lumia Icon and 1020 were heavily advertised on TV in the US... I'm not sure if Nokia or MS were more responsible for the ads.
    I actually see a fair number of TV ads for (low-end) Lumias in the US; not sure where this idea comes from that MS isn't trying to get the word out on them (this is in the San Francisco market). Though I imagine for the few that actually become interested enough to head to their local cellular retailer to check them out, a road block of "Windows Phone negativity" is there to greet them on the sales floor and they are steered elsewhere.
    10-03-2015 03:12 PM
  5. luxnws's Avatar
    first Microsoft should decide what it wants to sell is it windows phone 10/hardware.......there wont be any loss they must lower their profit margin for each device they sell same like xiaomi/one plus one other Chinese oems are practising this method and I feel its good as our competition is with android right now not with iPhone initially Samsung release flagship for high price but after 3months it drops its price drastically where as Chinese oem release their device with same spec at lower price and they maintain initially released price for device life cycle with only slight 1/2 drops in price......this method works only for unlocked device(so no carrier devices) for carrier devices/countries they can build two flagship one for carrier countries another one for no carrier countries...for carrier countries they must build premium device for premium price where as for no carrier countries they must introduce some ugly device like L950 with same hardware like in premium device....after device cycle without wasting resources on no carrier countries they must release same premium device with upgrade specs and concentrate on carrier countries.......
    In the U.S., iOS is the trendsetter. Guess it depends where Microsoft thinks it will make the most return on its money. Notice that the October 5 event is being held in NYC and not at an event in another country.

    Somehow I doubt Microsoft is going to try to go toe-to-toe and slug it out with Chinese manufacturers like Xiaomi for the consumer market in China. They are going to get third party manufacturers to bear (or share) the risk of selling the hardware. That's why Microsoft wrote off all or nearly all of the Nokia acquisition. They don't want to take big losses for the sake of chasing market share in relatively low margin hardware business that doesn't have the brand name of an Apple.
    10-03-2015 03:18 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    Yea, I agree but, on the other side of it, they are clearly interested in Market share due the facts I claimed. (1) If they didn't really care, why create Universal apps ? (2) Why create a plugin to port iOS and Android apps directly to Windows phone ? (3) Why even create these *new flagships* ?
    1. IMHO it's not correct to say that Universal apps were conceptualized as a means of "saving" WM. Microsoft set their various versions of Windows on a path towards unification long before the iPhone hit the market. Most of the things that make up the UWP today started life as part of Windows Vista. I agree that Universal apps must play an important and successful role in the W10 ecosystem if WM is not to fail, but the concept doesn't exist because of WM. MS would definitely have preferred that their mobile efforts had long lead to a more meaningful share of the market, without all this responsibility now resting on the UWP's shoulders.
    2. That's not a play for market share. That's WP's capitulation and the main reason why MS is no longer chasing market share with W10M. The more successful Islandwood and Astoria are in stimulating app activity in the W10M store, the less relevant W10M becomes to MS as an OS. Islandwood and Astroria sacrifice MS' ability to control their own ecosystem, protect their turf, and to innovate in meaningful ways beyond what their competitors have already done (conformity ties W10M to iOS and Android at the hips), in exchange for W10M remaining a viable product in consumer's eyes until universal apps (not iOS or Android sourced apps) become more widespread and can fill in more of the holes.
    3. Because MS can't sell their UWP vision without offering UWP compatible hardware in all standard form factors. I don't want to get into more details here. Either way, chasing market share is the absolut last reason to make a high-end smartphone. The reason Apple's worldwide market share has now dropped below 14% is because they only have phones on offer that most people deem too expensive. The L950/XL have no snowball's chance in hell of moving the needle as far as WM's market share is concerned. None. That's not what they are here for. They're only purpose is to keep the ball rolling... for now...

    Obviously, MS does want a bigger part of the mobile pie. As far as I'm concerned though, W10M is now on the reserve bench. It's just there. MS' UWP vision just isn't viable without a low-cost, small form factor, touch device capability, so MS has no choice but to keep W10M moving along, and they will do that for as long as they remain in the personal computing business. Rather than pushing W10M, MS will instead be pushing UWP, which may or may not relate to phones. If the fruits of those efforts at some point trickle down to W10M, then all the better for it... if that trickle at some point becomes a stream, then MS can eventually bring W10M back into the game... until then... reserve bench. That's where this notion of "not being interested in market share" comes from.

    That's how I see it.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-03-2015 at 04:06 PM. Reason: spelling
    10-03-2015 03:41 PM
  7. Joe A's Avatar
    Selling these devices at a loss is a tricky situation, Microsoft has a fiduciary responsibility to make money for its stock holders , losing money on a business model is acceptable for some period of time but not indefinitely. I feel that most cell phones like the iPhone 6 are overpriced and Apple makes more than a handsome profit on the product. But they can and do command those prices for now. Yes Microsoft has billions in the bank, but if they can't sell mobiles phones at profit after some time, especially if they have some sort of long term goal of establishing a new product category , then the 950 line my be priced to sell no matter what, but at some point they have to turn an acceptable profit on those phones, or what ever they end up becoming has to contribute to the bottom line, otherwise it will be time to stop committing resources and funds to the product.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Laura Knotek and libra89 like this.
    10-03-2015 04:12 PM
  8. MDboyz's Avatar
    They need to look at BlackBerry, and learn from it. It didn't work when you priced your phone the same or higher than iPhone, and Android. You are trying to catch up, so you have to spend money to close the distance.
    10-03-2015 04:36 PM
  9. melhiore's Avatar
    Not necessarily at loss but well priced. If the price will hit iPhone 6s brackets, I will go for iPhone just because ecosystem is great. For me the choice is simple. All MS apps are available on the iOS and these look way better than native Windows stuff...
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    10-03-2015 05:29 PM
  10. PsycheEye's Avatar
    Not necessarily at loss but well priced. If the price will hit iPhone 6s brackets, I will go for iPhone just because ecosystem is great. For me the choice is simple. All MS apps are available on the iOS and these look way better than native Windows stuff...
    This is what really bothers me..
    There are several cases where native Windows Phone apps look worse and are worse on Windows Phone than on Android and iOS. Skype for example.. I haven't used it in a while on Windows Phone, but less than a year ago it was horrible on Windows Phone when compared to for example Android.

    If someone can explain why Microsoft release and maintain their own apps better on other systems, then please do. 'Cause i really want to know..........
    melhiore and Tien-Lin Chang like this.
    10-03-2015 05:47 PM
  11. leehab's Avatar
    " So, they invest BILLIONS in Nokia but, they have no interest in Market share ? Really ? Are people that clueless to believe that for one second ? "

    Yes they are that clueless . MSFT does Not have futuristic long term plan . This CEO is blinded by Clouds and thinks that is the only thing that matter . Yet Amazon started from zero and now is #1 in Clouds with market share of 29.0% . Apple was once almost bankrupt and so was Ford and look at what the CEO did . Because they had vision . When there was a rumor that
    Ford CEO might be hired the stock jumped 5 points but then it dropped when this guy was hired . MSFT needs an outsider
    10-03-2015 06:15 PM
  12. Nadjib Bait's Avatar
    The solution is super simple:
    Pay Bieber, West or Kardashian to show himself a couple times in public with a Lumia... believe me market share will go from 3% to 10% the first year, you'll have an Instagram app better than iOS one, and Snapchat will release an app in a couple months...

    That's the unfortunate truth of our modern societies: sheep, sheep everywhere...
    melhiore likes this.
    10-03-2015 06:34 PM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    I saw windows phones in several Blockbuster movies.

    sent via Nexus Assassin Edition. Gonfaloniere.
    Kjetil Stokke likes this.
    10-03-2015 06:39 PM
  14. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    If someone can explain why Microsoft release and maintain their own apps better on other systems, then please do. 'Cause i really want to know..........
    It makes sense if MS has already concluded that WM will go away. If they announce they are pulling the plug while loyal customers still think it will eventually succeed, it could lead to marches on Redmond with torches and pitchforks. If they gradually make it less and less appealing compared to other phones and market share drops, that same angry mob will instead feel sorry for MS and its gallant attempt.

    I'm not saying I thing that is happening (although more twisted things have happened) but you asked for any explanation.

    Or you can take MS at their word which is (to paraphrase) their services and Office are far more important than any devices or even the Windows OS, so they are giving the good stuff to the largest market-share platforms first.
    10-03-2015 07:15 PM
  15. gazmatic's Avatar
    at a loss no. most phones dont cost more than $300 to make.
    the maximum price of the xl should be 599 with the accesories included.

    if not it will be doa.
    they should even think about pricing it high than 650. as a longtime windows fan. the nexus 6p costs 650 and that is the most i plan on spending on a phone.

    so if microsoft wants this phone to bomb, they will give it iphone pricing. if they want even a flicker of success, then it should be the same price or cheaper than the nexusp.

    because as a long time lumia lover, my red lumia 920 is looking rather dated and i want a new phone now. i want a lumia 950 xl but if it's more than the nexusp then guess what i'll be buying?
    10-03-2015 07:16 PM
  16. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    The solution is super simple:
    Pay Bieber, West or Kardashian to show himself a couple times in public with a Lumia... believe me market share will go from 3% to 10% the first year, you'll have an Instagram app better than iOS one, and Snapchat will release an app in a couple months...

    That's the unfortunate truth of our modern societies: sheep, sheep everywhere...
    Would absolutely work BUT it would require the celebs to keep using Windows Phones. Unfortunately, these aren't the kinds of people who take commitments seriously, even if they wanted to (which they won't). Didn't MS pay CNN (or some network) to use Surface devices on the air and some camera shots showed them still using their Apple devices where the camera wasn't meant to show? As soon as the check is cashed and the celeb doesn't know how to do something on the WP, they will go back to the iPhone in a heartbeat. Or better yet, like the Verizon commercial showing geese (former customers) flocking back, Apple will pay the celebs more to do a commercial about how much they missed their iPhones but learned their lesson the hard way.
    Nadjib Bait and libra89 like this.
    10-03-2015 07:24 PM
  17. Nadjib Bait's Avatar
    Would absolutely work BUT it would require the celebs to keep using Windows Phones. Unfortunately, these aren't the kinds of people who take commitments seriously, even if they wanted to (which they won't). Didn't MS pay CNN (or some network) to use Surface devices on the air and some camera shots showed them still using their Apple devices where the camera wasn't meant to show? As soon as the check is cashed and the celeb doesn't know how to do something on the WP, they will go back to the iPhone in a heartbeat. Or better yet, like the Verizon commercial showing geese (former customers) flocking back, Apple will pay the celebs more to do a commercial about how much they missed their iPhones but learned their lesson the hard way.
    MS can just give them a super big check (would still cost a lot less than TV ads for eg) with a very serious/strict contract, I think it could work.
    10-03-2015 07:38 PM
  18. desitunez's Avatar
    After 7.2 Billion dollar loss , they cant afford too :D
    10-03-2015 07:50 PM
  19. Vladimir Byazrov's Avatar
    I might consider Microsoft's top notch flagship phone for no more than $500. but even for this price I'd probably look away. I've had enough experience with WP7 and WP8 on two phones. And it felt like an inhabited unfriendly island. So maybe $300 price tag could trick me into buying my third Microsoft's experimental thingy they call a smartphone.
    10-03-2015 09:31 PM
  20. Queen Kong1's Avatar
    Keep costs low= sell more!! That's why select few have iphones. Lumia 532 is $29.00 Amazing price
    10-03-2015 10:15 PM
  21. scandiskwindows9x's Avatar
    if sells with no profit just will do a very clear thing, bankruptcy the problem that Windows Phone have is the apps that is the problem, now are deepen the problem with the discontinuation of some services and apps and the lack of here maps by the day of today 10/03/2015 that deepen the problem also the same policy of Nokia of release each 2 years an new device when the today chipset companies are so fast paced that when the snapdragon 810 was new some months later came the newer version of this chipset and that is enough time for Samsung start to do and release an new phone taking advantage of the latest materials in the market and while this the lumia phones gets outdated really fast, also with each new windows phone release more features are took off and that instead of attract more people , move away more people, and have not shown anything creative or any new function rather we are celebrating by functions added that on Android, Symbian were long time ago
    10-03-2015 10:42 PM
  22. peterfares's Avatar
    Selling the flagship phones for $400-$500 would not be selling for a loss, they'd still be making a profit on them just not iPhone level profits. The Moto X Pure is sold for $400 and OnePlus Two is $329 and those phones are not sold at a loss.
    Tien-Lin Chang and 920Walker like this.
    10-03-2015 11:53 PM
  23. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    It makes sense if MS has already concluded that WM will go away. If they announce they are pulling the plug while loyal customers still think it will eventually succeed, it could lead to marches on Redmond with torches and pitchforks. If they gradually make it less and less appealing compared to other phones and market share drops, that same angry mob will instead feel sorry for MS and its gallant attempt.
    If they ever did give up on their own smartphone OS, I'm not sure why people think that it would be in the form of some grand announcement or press release from MS: "Nadellla to fans: we quit". Yeah, no.
    They could just slowly put fewer and fewer resources into maintaining Windows mobile, until one day you turn around, and it's not there anymore.
    Honestly, IMO I think that's already the path they're on.

    Anybody who still thinks that Microsoft is planning on rolling out a huge marketing campaign for phones alone is dreaming or deluded; commercials and marketing efforts may *include* phones, but spending Millions on a phone launch, like Nokia spent to launch the Lumia 920 is not realistic.
    That particular horse has left the barn.
    As has been stated, phones are now included in Microsoft's portfolio, but I don't believe they expect to win in smartphones, or even crack double digit share worldwide.
    That's over, and they're moving on to other things.
    10-03-2015 11:55 PM
  24. Vincent McLaughlin's Avatar
    No, selling the phones at a loss would not solve the long-term issue. What MS needs to do is market the unique features that the phone has to offer to the markets that can best use them, respectively. That means they will need to have commercials and other advertisements that focus on this. We all know the app situation and that alone will not keep those who decide to try WP from going back over to Android iOS. Many consider WP half-backed and that, IMO, is far from the truth at this point. It does what most phones need to do and then some. However, what MS has to focus on is implementing these features and making them smooth and quick. This is what early adopters of WP have come to love about it and have lost faith that MS bring this back to WP. What people also fail to realize is that most of this bias at this point about Windows 10 Mobile is based on a TP OS, not a finished product. The TP program has been a blessing and curse, but at the end of the day, I think it will pay off.
    10-04-2015 12:12 AM
  25. Aldrich Uyliong's Avatar
    Microsoft already is selling Lumia devices at a loss. Apple is the only OS maker in the mobile space that actually make money on hardware but I know what you mean. And I think undercutting on price is a bad idea. It flies for upstarts but if an established company like Microsoft did that, it sends the wrong message to consumers.

    Specifically, it comes across as lack of confidence and lack of interest to support the product from the company. Remember that fire sales usually precede the closing of businesses.
    10-04-2015 01:36 AM
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