- It would be shocking if the 950/950 XL were carrier specific. My bet is that they will sell the unlocked phones in the Microsoft Store too.
The only reasons why people buy phones through carriers nowadays is financing (they can't afford to buy it with one payment) and upgrade convenience. What most people don't seem realize is that they are paying extra for both.10-04-2015 07:00 PMLike 0 - Well even more than selling cheaper, they need to have at all wireless providers, maybe easier said than done, but having at at&t only, howmany they going to lose that way? I am on my 4th windows phone now, however with T-Mobile and on jump, if T-Mobile doesn't get one, sadly guess back to android. I will never switch providers just for a phone, besides would have to pay $300 to T-Mobile plus new phone, even if bought at ms store...screw that.
Last edited by HoosierDaddy; 10-04-2015 at 07:41 PM.
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anon(9275303) and libra89 like this.10-04-2015 07:07 PMLike 2 - Share
- To be honest the 640 is pretty fast...i can't justify spending so much money IF all I want is a LITTLE increase in speed a better camera...i can just go with a higher end Nokia released 2 years ago for 130 bucks....
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libra89 likes this.10-04-2015 07:08 PMLike 1 - Share
- AquilaAlienware RogueIs anything known about the camera yet? There are a lot of really good cameras that came out in the past year.
sent via Nvidia Shield Tablet - Android Central Moderator.- Share
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Laura Knotek likes this.10-04-2015 07:11 PMLike 1 - Share
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Pure View
OIS
If former Nokia imaging personnel were involved in designing these new devices I'll safely assume these cameras will smoke the competition.10-04-2015 07:58 PMLike 0 - It will be very interesting to see how they price the Lumia 950s.
They can't really sell these for more than the Nexus phones. It's pretty much the same specs and not too many people want a Windows Phone.
We saw what happened with the Surface RT, which was priced like an iPad and with the Amazon Fire Phone, which was priced like an iPhone. Both were such big flips they ended up being a write off and sold in a flash sale.
On the other hand, they said the flagship phones will be for the WP fans, who might pay more. So if all they want to do with these devices is appease the fans, the pricing could be higher (and later on the models targeting business users, where they're looking for growth now, will be priced to sell)
That's why it's so interesting. The pricing will let us know where Microsoft wants to go with WP- Share
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10-04-2015 10:26 PMLike 4 - Share
- Well the 950/XL has microSD and swappable batteries - supposedly "deal breaker" level features for many of the highly vocal geeks whom would complain loudly that the Nexus and most Android flagships don't have (just look at all the hate when Samsung removed these feature on the Galaxy flagships and how many geek swore that Samsung will not get their business). So it's not the "same spec" as a Nexus - it's actually better. The only inferior point of the 950s is that of the app ecosystem.
Not that I expect any of those people to put the money where their mouth is though, no matter the pricing, as Os choice for mobile is like a religion for these people, and no rational reason will convince them otherwise, which includes cheaper pricing. So no point in making it the same.10-04-2015 11:38 PMLike 0 - It will be very interesting to see how they price the Lumia 950s.
They can't really sell these for more than the Nexus phones. It's pretty much the same specs and not too many people want a Windows Phone.
We saw what happened with the Surface RT, which was priced like an iPad and with the Amazon Fire Phone, which was priced like an iPhone. Both were such big flips they ended up being a write off and sold in a flash sale.
On the other hand, they said the flagship phones will be for the WP fans, who might pay more. So if all they want to do with these devices is appease the fans, the pricing could be higher (and later on the models targeting business users, where they're looking for growth now, will be priced to sell)
That's why it's so interesting. The pricing will let us know where Microsoft wants to go with WP
I truly believe the right thing to do is to price them slightly below the Nexus phones. True, the fans might pay more regardless, but it would be incredibly short-sighted of Microsoft to try to make a quick buck off of those who have supported them for years. I'd say the price should be about $350 for the 950 and $450 for the XL.
Microsoft has said that they're no longer trying to grow a standalone phone business, so at this point their premium phones exist solely to complete the Windows 10 "picture". The market for Windows Phone is already tiny, the market for *premium* Windows Phones is multiple times smaller than that. So the 950/950XL are not going to be money-makers in and of themselves, no matter what they cost.
I'd really like to see Microsoft essentially say, "Hey, thanks for sticking with us on our whole vision for the Windows 10. We're not going to gouge you on the prices because there's no reason to anyway."- Share
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Tien-Lin Chang likes this.10-05-2015 12:45 AMLike 1 - Share
- The problem is that failed for BlackBerry. Adding the Android runtime destroyed native BlackBerry app development and failed to improve market share. Now BlackBerry is releasing an Android device.
If that succeeds, then BlackBerry 10 is dead. If that fails, then BlackBerry will most likely exit the handset market completely.10-05-2015 01:33 AMLike 0 - I'm so excited for the event tomorrow! :D The prices that were leaked can't be right... I hope... nearly 1,000 USD for their base model? Hmmm... That's like Blackberry asking for 1,000 USD for their next Priv hahahaha. I'd laugh them right off the stage. It must be due to inflation or first day releases or something. But that price will never hold xD
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libra89 likes this.10-05-2015 01:50 AMLike 1 - Share
- any price above 450$ for these two won't hold.
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Robinator likes this.10-05-2015 02:46 AMLike 1 - Share
- ... Let's just say on some aspects, we can agree to disagree.
If they are saying they "don't care" about market share, how ever it's worded, in all and all, that would be 100% BS. Sure there is no point to "chase" iOS or Android but, to be successful, they NEED to gain a larger part of that pie, sitting at 2-4%, as it's a nice achievement (for a new phone) but, after 5-7 years now, it's a disappointment and does not do much for their bottom line.
Anything about it, Windows 10 to Windows 10 Phone, NEEDS to be successful or I honestly don't think we will see a Next version. Referring to Windows 10 phone only, Windows 10 on desktop will be successful, as something like 90-95% of the computers in the world run Windows, it cant fail but, Windows 10 phone can.
Not caring about market share is not the same as not chasing it however! There is a difference! You appear to gloss over that difference and view both as saying the same thing with different words. It's not. The wording is important, or it least it is if we want to understand what it is we're agreeing to disagree on.
Chasing market share would require:
- MS to aggressively compete on handset price (they won't)
- for MS to at least maintain their device R&D and manufacturing capacities (massively being scaled back)
- for MS to launch sizable WM marketing campaigns globally (you will see nothing of the sort)
- MS to put FAR more effort into providing WM with innovative, compelling, and most importantly, unique features, without which the masses have no reason to choose WM over competing offerings (by tying WM to iOS/Android MS has willingly sacrificed their ability to innovate in the app space, and we all know where MS stands when it comes to keeping at least some features or services exclusive to WM).
I could easily go on with more technical issues, but that would be getting too much into the weeds. Either way, none of the above is happening. There will be no major and direct efforts to increase WM's market share. They will not be chasing market share. If you still disagree, then yes, we can agree to disagree.
WM is no longer of major relevance in and as of itself. It isn't required to be a successful product in its own right. It needs only to serve its purpose as a component of MS' overarching UWP vision. As such, for as long as MS remains in the personal computing market, WM isn't going away, even if doesn't gain more market share.Last edited by a5cent; 10-05-2015 at 03:32 AM. Reason: last paragraph
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10-05-2015 03:00 AMLike 4 - This is not a given actually. Chasing market share doesn't really mean you have to sell stuff much cheaper than your rivals. It's ONE way to do it, for sure, but not the ONLY way.
for MS to at least maintain their device R&D and manufacturing capacities (massively being scaled back)
They still have internal R&D, they just got rid of the Nokia ones. Again, means nothing, some people may even think it is better because Microsoft's internal R&D gave us gems like the Surface Pro 3.
[*]for MS to launch sizable WM marketing campaigns globally (you will see nothing of the sort)
]MS to put FAR more effort into providing WM with innovative, compelling, and most importantly, unique features, without which the masses have no reason to choose WM over competing offerings (by tying WM to iOS/Android MS has willingly sacrificed their ability to innovate in the app space, and we all know where MS stands when it comes to keeping at least some features or services exclusive to WM).
Ever since I've moved to W10 everywhere (my desktop, my Surface Pro 3, my 1520) I've experienced a much tighter integration between my devices that cannot be rivaled by Android/iOS (iOS CAN do it, but it means I have to switch to OSX - which I'm not going to). The only thing that's missing is Edge sync support which is coming. This is already a huge feature win over the competition to me. Is it for everyone? No. But for people who spend equal time on all screens (desktop AND tablet AND phone) instead of mainly one screen (desktop OR tablet OR phone), Windows offers the best experience and that is Microsoft's sales point. It won't appeal to everyone, but to say MS doesn't have anything to innovate in is nonsense.10-05-2015 03:58 AMLike 0 -
Exactly. Whatever your preferred interpretation is, this does, at the very least, signify that MS is not willing to make the same sized investments into smartphone hardware innovations as Nokia previously has. Unless the folks in Redmond were just sitting around twiddling their thumbs, there is no way they will be able to pick up all the slack.
I'm not saying it's hopeless. W10M still has a chance at a comeback, theoretically even without MS' UWP vision taking off (we can never fully rule out Google imploding or whatever). But until MS' UWP vision takes off or something else changes, W10M will remain on the sidelines, in the sense that MS will not be pushing it directly into the market with any meaningful amount of corporate muscle. If you disagree with that, we'll also have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by a5cent; 10-05-2015 at 09:00 AM. Reason: slight improvements throughout
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libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.10-05-2015 05:20 AMLike 2 - Share
- What Microsoft should possibly attempt to do is to sell at cost, or with extremely low profit, ALL its set of phones, from the high end ones to the cheapest ones and do that for say three years in a row and see what happens.
I believe the result will be that many will try them because the financial penalty of getting a phone that the person would not like would then be very minimal for these first three years when they are ALL sold at cost, or with extremely low profit.
The idea is to gain as much market share for Windows 10 mobile and its Windows smartphones as possible in the shortest possible period of time. Of course, it would be a strategic and long-term (just three years) decision.
That would be similar to the strategic and extremely smart decision (as well as indispensable for the apps for the Windows 10 mobile OS) that Microsoft took by giving for free the Windows 10 OS to most current users of Windows (Windows 7, Windows 8 users).
What Microsoft must do is to allow any Google Android and iPhone users to give it a try for the Windows 10 mobile OS and a Windows smartphone at the minimum financial penalty in case they would not like the Windows smartphones that they would choose to try for a while. That is the goal that Microsoft must make reality.
Having said that, Microsoft has a lot of work to do to put all the Windows 10 mobile phones in the hands of every single main US carrier first. It is by winning the American users first while keeping the users in Europe happy with new Windows smartphones that Microsoft will change the dynamics of the market and increase its market share.
After all, I believe that is what Google did and still does with its phones, they are sold probably at cost or very near to cost, as they are usually much cheaper than they should for their specifications and than they are for similar Android phones on the market.10-05-2015 06:03 AMLike 0 - It's unrealistic for people to say these phones should be under $500.
Spec wise, 950/950xl are on par with any flagships out there. Plus continuum, Windows Hello, SD card slot, exchangeable battery, dual SIM, and the expected superior camera they are truly strong competitors.
Strategy wise, MS won't want these two phones comparable with Nexus. Nexus has always been the representative of the best budget phone, while 950/950xl aim at premium business and WP fans markets. They will be charged similar to Galaxy S6 and iphone, but a little bit lower to compete.
My guess is $579 for 950, and $659 for 950xl.10-05-2015 06:37 AMLike 0 - A couple of things you might want to consider.
1) Although subsidized phones are going away, payment plans are replacing them, so you can still get a decent phone (albeit iPhone, Android or Windows 10) at a cheap price and pay monthly payments added to your bill. I believe the Microsoft Store may be adding this option as well, since Apple is now doing it.
2) CONTINUUM - With Continuum, you get not just a phone, but a PC as well. You don't have to purchase a phone AND a laptop. With Lumia 950/950XL, your phone IS your laptop. Just plug it into the Continuum dock and you have a desktop PC with full monitor, keyboard and mouse support. This is something you will NOT see in either iPhone nor Android. This feature alone is worth charging the same price as iPhone or Android devices because you won't need the added expense of purchasing a PC. So, instead of lowering the price of the 950/950XL, I think MS should INCLUDE the Continuum dock with the purchase of the phone, thereby eliminating the need for any other purchases. But even if they don't, the Continuum dock will still cost a lot less than a new PC, so you still come out ahead.10-05-2015 07:13 AMLike 0 - AquilaAlienware RogueIt's unrealistic for people to say these phones should be under $500.
Spec wise, 950/950xl are on par with any flagships out there. Plus continuum, Windows Hello, SD card slot, exchangeable battery, dual SIM, and the expected superior camera they are truly strong competitors.
Strategy wise, MS won't want these two phones comparable with Nexus. Nexus has always been the representative of the best budget phone, while 950/950xl aim at premium business and WP fans markets. They will be charged similar to Galaxy S6 and iphone, but a little bit lower to compete.
My guess is $579 for 950, and $659 for 950xl.
Historically the Nexus 4 left LTE absent. Otherwise they have all been flagship devices and most were at flagship prices.
These new Lumias definitely sound like the Nexus devices in terms of specs and if priced similarly, MS will likely sell more and take a loss. Selling at Sony, Samsung and Apple prices seems dangerous however that is probably close to the right amount to turn a profit on each unit.
For me it would be hard to justify the 950XL over the Nexus 6P if the 950 is more than $300-350. The specs are so similar that what we are really boiling down to are aesthetics, ecosystem, software experience and value of those for any price difference. Now I know Nexus isn't playing fair by undercutting pricing, but that doesn't change the price. At $300-350, the 950XL can potentially beat the Nexus 5X and may be enough of a value to settle from the 6P. But above that, it seems hard to explain why I wouldn't go nexus.
Keep in mind, 100% of the growth will need to come from people who 1: dont already love windows mobile 2: are probably invested in apple or Android 3: probably don't know anyone with Windows who is going to push them to try it.
Overcoming systemic unawareness while at the same time overpricing the market won't go well. That said, I'd I price for MS I'd price the XL under Samsung at $550 and the other with Moto at $400. This puts both slightly above nexus but the savings vs apple and Samsung are obvious.
sent via Nexus Assassin Edition. Gonfaloniere.- Share
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Laura Knotek and Onager1286 like this.10-05-2015 08:56 AMLike 2 - Share
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- AquilaAlienware Rogue
sent via Nexus Assassin Edition. Gonfaloniere.- Share
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libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.10-05-2015 09:03 AMLike 2 - Share
- Also people need to be re-introduced to Windows Mobile 10 and see the difference. Marketing needs to be big specially in stores and TV. Blackberry can be niche even with Google (Priv) they spend zero dollars on marketing on TV or stores because they can't afford too. MS can and should wallop Apple on this front!
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Aquila likes this.10-05-2015 09:04 AMLike 1 - Share
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Should New Lumia Devices be sold at a loss ?
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