Should New Lumia Devices be sold at a loss ?

Longshot2012

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While I agree the market is holding out for the app situation (i'm one of them), they're not going to win ANYONE over that knows about the app situation if they price them the same as the iPhone and the Galaxy. Especially since (apparently) Verizon won't be carrying them. They need to price them so people have a reason to want to try them.
 

gemini5150

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Well I asked my girlfriend and she said that if it was the same as the iPhone or more it would be perceived as just as good or better than the iPhone. However she would still buy the iPhone just because people already know how to use it and its more known. I just wish they sell it a little low because I want it and I don’t want to spend top dollar on it. Its just not the 1020 update and it does not have a lanyard string.
 

zkyevolved

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Oh please, the 930 is being sold for 350 euros right now unlocked, and they're making a profit off it if being sold at that price. Companies inflate their devices a lot. Does anyone actually think an iPhone is worth 900 euros? Or a Note 5 800? To actually make the iPhone 6s Plus, it costs 242 dollars. Yes, the newest model of the iPhone costs that. And that's a HUGE profit. Now, of course, R&D, salaries, etc. But the actual device costs NOTHING. If MS comes in charging 600 or 700 euros unlocked, that'll be a HUGE mistake. They should come in with 450 or 500 AT MOST. THEN people would consider windows phone. I would never pay that high price for a Samsung or iPhone or Windows Phone. It's just too much for ANY phone in my opinion!

Hopefully Microsoft will be intelligent and not aim to make a HUGE PROFIT off of a 3% market share. They should increase their market share for this device that will be awesomely spec'd and then raise it a LITTLE bit like what Samsung has been doing over the past few years. Ever year their devices are MORE expensive.

Galaxy note 5 http://www.techinsights.com/teardown/Note5-Blog-08312015/10.png 298 dollars
Galaxy Note 2 cost 220 dollars.
Iphone 6s Plus 242
iPhone 3Gs cost 178
iPhone 4 188

Yes, they're more expensive today, but omg, NOW the price is INFLATED!
 

uncle_maxim

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To actually make the iPhone 6s Plus, it costs 242 dollars. Yes, the newest model of the iPhone costs that.

Just wanted to use that argument :)

It would be a huge mistake for Microsoft to sell phones at the same prices as the competitors as people who buy iPhones and top Android devices also get an advanced ecosystem with lots of apps and proper service.
Paying ****loads of money for a phone with the same possibilities as a 60$ device from the same product line would be just insane.
Previously Windows Phones were both competitive and unique (given that Android and iOS visually are pretty much the same), but now there's no competitiveness as the app makers either abandon their apps (cheers to Instagram) or just don't make the new ones. The things that made you a brand partisan in the past make you a laughing stock today.
Also, if I were asked whether I wanted to have a phone made of plastic or metal and glass, I would surely go for the second option.

I wonder if MS are doing that on purpose to completely bury the mobile platform?
 

Michael Alan Goff

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Just wanted to use that argument :)

It would be a huge mistake for Microsoft to sell phones at the same prices as the competitors as people who buy iPhones and top Android devices also get an advanced ecosystem with lots of apps and proper service.
Paying ****loads of money for a phone with the same possibilities as a 60$ device from the same product line would be just insane.
Previously Windows Phones were both competitive and unique (given that Android and iOS visually are pretty much the same), but now there's no competitiveness as the app makers either abandon their apps (cheers to Instagram) or just don't make the new ones. The things that made you a brand partisan in the past make you a laughing stock today.
Also, if I were asked whether I wanted to have a phone made of plastic or metal and glass, I would surely go for the second option.

I wonder if MS are doing that on purpose to completely bury the mobile platform?

Why do people quote such a nonsense figure?
 

anguilla1980

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I think history is going to repeat it's self with these devices. I think the 550 is going to out sell the 950 and XL for one price. I think Microsoft will have to market the 950 and XL very aggressively by highlighting what can be done on WIN 10 mobile compared to Android and IOS. I live in the Caribbean and the perception of windows phone is next to trash and that basic things can't be done compared to IOS and Android Cough!!! but actually there is some reason in it try setting a mp3 for a ringtone for example. I think Microsoft has to show what Win10 can do now in comparison to the others in relation to ease of use. Until then, I think die hards will only go for 950 and XL. Just my thoughts for now would love a 950 but my 920 will continue to the job till i can afford it but the 550 is looking a serious contender.

Allot, ok most, of the perception issue is due to Digicel and Lime. I'm mean really, people here go by what's cool and what they see on TV. Without carriers educating a consumer on a product, then it doesn't have a chance. Digicel right now has people thinking the 1020 is hot **** because of the camera, that phone is how old now?! Then again, I don't think the Caribbean is a market anyone but local companies give a **** about, even then, they only give a **** in terms of taking peoples money.
 

a5cent

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To actually make the iPhone 6s Plus, it costs 242 dollars. Yes, the newest model of the iPhone costs that. And that's a HUGE profit. Now, of course, R&D, salaries, etc. But the actual device costs NOTHING.

All consumer electronics cost virtually nothing to manufacture !!!!

Manufacturing a CPU costs practically nothing, yet getting it to the point where you are able to have a functioning CPU roll off the production line often costs billions!

It boggles the mind to see how you guys, despite theoretically understanding that this is no different for smartphones, can then turn around and claim all the work that went into engineering these devices should just be ignored. C'mon! It's nonsense.

You could just as well say that the price of a smartphone should never be more than $10, because that's what postage and packaging costs you. This is similarly drawing a line accross the path that must be travelled to get a smartphone into consumer's hands, and ignoring all the costs associated with the steps that came before it. Drawing that line just before manufacturing is just as arbitrary and ridiculous as drawing it just before postage and packaging!

If you're just going to flat out ignore all the engineering work that went into these devices, why stop there? Why not ignore manufacturing costs too? After all, selling for $10 is better than selling for $160. Right?

There is absolutely no logic to this...
 
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Bobvfr

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Bit late to the party on this one, I have to go back to how I got here to answer, I was about to ditch Windows out of my life a few years ago, but I kept on looking at my wife's WP7 metro design, and now my house is full of MS stuff, Xbox One's, Surfaces, various PC and Lumia's all in multiples of 3.

But if MS get the pricing wrong on the new phones and I have to turn to an alternative for one device, then the temptation would be to turn to the alternatives other devices.

My 1520 is up for replacement after Xmas and I have a few choices, keep the 1520 going, get one of the new WP's or jump ship (Not my preferred choice) but I cannot see how I could persuade others of my family to stay with Windows for much longer if they continue to have to rebuild from the ground up every year, not a massive app user but even I can see that however much I think Apple are selling nothing special for lots of pennies, I would struggle to stay on board, and as stated if my phone isn't o Windows the chances are my next other device purchase would also be on another platform.

So MS need to get the pricing very right, I am not saying in any way they need to compensate us for the frustration, but I am not going to pay top pennies for a device that may not have a future so MS need to convince me they are committed even if that means selling at cost.
 

DoctorSaline

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I don't know what has gotten into me, I used to be a great advocate of competitive pricing. Anyhoo, here goes. I want Microsoft to price 950XL 950 as high as base model iPhone 6s+ and 6s.
 

anon(5335899)

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Pricing will be fair and at value, just like previous models. The notion Microsoft should sell at a loss is simply silly and nonsense. I'd expect these phones to come in at a lower price than the similar specced iPhones and Samsung devices but more expensive than the Chinese phones.

If I had to guess, before taxes and subsidies they'll come in at €499 for the 950XL and €399 for the 950
 

Searcher2015

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This writer's perspective is quite insightful. It is not what most of us will want to read but it does fit the facts and the most recent general pronouncements. I wish he would share more such insights.
 
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Good point. I think that the market bore cheap Windows Phones because those were in line with what most people's opinions of Windows Phone is. At the time it was better than comparatively priced Android phones and there was a clear advantage there especially considering the freebies that came with Windows Phone. I'm not sure who is going to pay a premium for Windows Phone. Amazon and Blackberry have had that same issue selling premium phones for more than $500. So, although $800 may be a fair price for the 950, 950 XL, given the tech, the reality is more like $300, maybe even as low as $250, considering how people rank Windows Mobile as an OS.
 

tgp

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Oh please, the 930 is being sold for 350 euros right now unlocked, and they're making a profit off it if being sold at that price. Companies inflate their devices a lot. Does anyone actually think an iPhone is worth 900 euros? Or a Note 5 800? To actually make the iPhone 6s Plus, it costs 242 dollars. Yes, the newest model of the iPhone costs that. And that's a HUGE profit. Now, of course, R&D, salaries, etc. But the actual device costs NOTHING. If MS comes in charging 600 or 700 euros unlocked, that'll be a HUGE mistake. They should come in with 450 or 500 AT MOST. THEN people would consider windows phone. I would never pay that high price for a Samsung or iPhone or Windows Phone. It's just too much for ANY phone in my opinion!

Hopefully Microsoft will be intelligent and not aim to make a HUGE PROFIT off of a 3% market share. They should increase their market share for this device that will be awesomely spec'd and then raise it a LITTLE bit like what Samsung has been doing over the past few years. Ever year their devices are MORE expensive.

Galaxy note 5 http://www.techinsights.com/teardown/Note5-Blog-08312015/10.png 298 dollars
Galaxy Note 2 cost 220 dollars.
Iphone 6s Plus 242
iPhone 3Gs cost 178
iPhone 4 188

Yes, they're more expensive today, but omg, NOW the price is INFLATED!

There seems to be a misconception as to the measurement of an item's value. The value is not the cost of production plus a little markup for profit. Any retailer will tell you that the value of an item is what the consumer is willing to pay for it.

Stores have items where there is little or even no markup, and other items where they might have a 1,000% or more markup. It just depends on what we as customers are willing to pay.

If Apple can sell 13 million iPhones in one weekend for $800 each, then obviously the value is there. You might not think so, but plenty of other people do. If you were Apple, would you price them at $400 if they'll sell for $800? Of course not!
 

lokeshkumar84

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Samsung is spending a big amount for the promotion of its Galaxy S6, S6 Edge and Note lineup. All these are Samsung's Flagship devices. Microsoft have Lumia Icon, Lumia 930 and Lumia 1520 to compete with Samsung's Galaxy and Note lineup. But, have you ever seen any advertisement to promote these Lumia flagships? Microsoft is busy in promoting Lumia 540, 630 and 535 like low end devices. You are promoting your low cost devices and want profit from your Flagships. Is this right?

Secondly, You are targeting wrong areas. Microsoft actually don't know where to sell its Smartphones and other Devices like Surface. That is why they are loosing. For example, India is a conventional market for Nokia/Microsoft. But Microsoft's priority is USA and European market only. From there, they start loosing. They provided a free space for other OEMs.

I am expecting that Microsoft will learn by its previous experiences. I hope they will promote their Flagships with some interesting advertisements. And I also suggest that don't ignore your established markets like India, Brazil etc. People of these countries Like and Love Lumias and other Microsoft devices. So, fulfill the requirements at time, where and when it is needed.

My last request to Microsoft is, please bring your newly announce devices to the market timely. Because, your newly announced devices gets older when others launch their new devices.
 

leehab

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The CEO came from the Clouds division and he said that is the future and he also said phone division will be scaled down as they do not want to pursue that .

To me that is the greatest mistake MSFT has made . Cell phones are becoming more and more a daily device we are using thus ecosystem become a vital part of that . Samsung fell behind because it could not offer that and Apple offered it right away and constantly improved on it .

The new CEO will fail in the Clouds as Amazon is not only #1 now but is set to revolutionize it next month . MSFT needs an outsider as CEO to save it

The new phones should carry a low price because the hardware is outdated and price is the only way to get us , the current users , in upgrading . That is the only way to get new consumers to join
Even when big companies want to promote a product they sell it at a loss to gain market share .
Wendy started by giving away free burgers
 

19Michael87

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That's where the Universal App platform comes in. It is no longer only about the phones. If you develop for Windows 10 you develop for the 900 million users that are expected to come over from Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 to Microsofts latest and greatest within the next 11 months that the free upgrade plan will be available. The current 100 million Windows Phone users are more like icing on the cake.

So Microsoft doesn't have to chase market share in the short run with their phones, instead of that they can chase profits. If they can announce growing revenue figures and some profit figueres most of the pressure will be gone. As most major Android OEMs produce at a loss. The critics in the tech blogosphere will lose all their ammo, and most likely start writing positive articles about how good Windows 10 Mobile is and that Microsoft is on the right track.

And with Microsoft making money on their own mobile platform other OEMs will take notice and most likely get intrigued enough to investigate the possibility to enter the Windows 10 Mobile market with their own handsets.
 

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