Should New Lumia Devices be sold at a loss ?

[920Walker]

Sometimes a budget laptop can be had for a bit more than the cost of a monitor, keyboard and mouse. Also, there's the added cost of the continuum dock; Munchkin.

 

[Aquila]

It's unrealistic for people to say these phones should be under $500.

Spec wise, 950/950xl are on par with any flagships out there. Plus continuum, Windows Hello, SD card slot, exchangeable battery, dual SIM, and the expected superior camera they are truly strong competitors.

Strategy wise, MS won't want these two phones comparable with Nexus. Nexus has always been the representative of the best budget phone, while 950/950xl aim at premium business and WP fans markets. They will be charged similar to Galaxy S6 and iphone, but a little bit lower to compete.

My guess is $579 for 950, and $659 for 950xl.

I'd beg to differ on the nexus. The nexus has never represented budget devices, two models (and the new two as yet unreleased) have been subsidized by Google to have budget device like pricing. There aren't areas being skimped on in terms of hardware... it may be a challenge to find something that beats the Nexus 6P on the spec sheet. All Metal, 128 GB storage option, SD 810v2.1, 3 GB RAM, Camera (not as good as Z5 according to tests but on par with or better than all other tested flagships this year), 5.7" 1440p AMOLED screen, gigantic battery, USB-C, Fingerprint scanner, etc, etc. This is not a budget device, but it is $500. The budget devices on Android are the Moto G, ZenFone 2, etc. They're usually sub $200-300 and you're paying for less and getting less in terms of hardware.

Historically the Nexus 4 left LTE absent. Otherwise they have all been flagship devices and most were at flagship prices.

These new Lumias definitely sound like the Nexus devices in terms of specs and if priced similarly, MS will likely sell more and take a loss. Selling at Sony, Samsung and Apple prices seems dangerous however that is probably close to the right amount to turn a profit on each unit.

For me it would be hard to justify the 950XL over the Nexus 6P if the 950 is more than $300-350. The specs are so similar that what we are really boiling down to are aesthetics, ecosystem, software experience and value of those for any price difference. Now I know Nexus isn't playing fair by undercutting pricing, but that doesn't change the price. At $300-350, the 950XL can potentially beat the Nexus 5X and may be enough of a value to settle from the 6P. But above that, it seems hard to explain why I wouldn't go nexus.

Keep in mind, 100% of the growth will need to come from people who 1: dont already love windows mobile 2: are probably invested in apple or Android 3: probably don't know anyone with Windows who is going to push them to try it.

Overcoming systemic unawareness while at the same time overpricing the market won't go well. That said, I'd I price for MS I'd price the XL under Samsung at $550 and the other with Moto at $400. This puts both slightly above nexus but the savings vs apple and Samsung are obvious.

sent via Nexus Assassin Edition. Gonfaloniere.

 

[hf199]

Absolutely! MS is 90 billion dollar company. They should also make an agreement with Google like Blackberry did to add the Google Store and not have to wait for developers to bring apps over. They shouldn't have to rely on them just make it easier and strike a deal!

 

[Aquila]

Absolutely! MS is 90 billion dollar company. They should also make an agreement with Google like Blackberry did to add the Google Store and not have to wait for developers to bring apps over. They shouldn't have to rely on them just make it easier and strike a deal!

MS made an Android device with a windows mobile skin on it, but they went super cheap and didn't take it seriously. I'm not sure if switching to Android is MS's best play. Getting their apps in the Play Store is important but not sure about abandoning the windows part.

sent via Nexus Assassin Edition. Gonfaloniere.

 

[hf199]

Also people need to be re-introduced to Windows Mobile 10 and see the difference. Marketing needs to be big specially in stores and TV. Blackberry can be niche even with Google (Priv) they spend zero dollars on marketing on TV or stores because they can't afford too. MS can and should wallop Apple on this front!

 

[hf199]

Keeps Windows part but incorporate the Google apps.

 

[houkoholic]

Nowhere did I say that aggressive pricing is the only means by which to gain market share. It stands to reason this would be part of any market share growth strategy however. Many here are expecting the L950/XL to be priced aggressively, precisely because they believe MS would be stupid not to chase market share in that way. When that doesn't happen, it should signify to those folks that MS does in fact not believe market share to be an important enough goal to follow by such means. It's just one of many indicators, and one we'll be able to verify soon. That's why I mentioned it.

It's okay that you mention it, but it's not okay to spin it as MS not caring about W10M. Those are completely different things. It would be like saying that since iOS only has 15% of the market share that Apple doesn't care about iOS unless they start lowering their hardware price by half to "beat Android". It's not an apt analogy to make to begin with, so I'm going to point out how ridiculous it is.

Exactly. Whatever your preferred interpretation is, this does, at the very least, signify that MS is not willing to make the same sized investments into smartphone hardware innovations as Nokia previously has. Unless the folks in Redmond were just sitting around twiddling their thumbs, there is no way they will be able to pick up all the slack.

Another ridiculous claim. Nokia's history is known to be wasteful and full of middle management bureaucracy which prevented their good engineering products from seeing the day, that's why their team is so bloated. There were more than 3 times the engineers keeping Symbian up to date than the entire Windows 7 OS team for instance. Nokia was a bloated company that was inefficiently ran and just looking at the numbers of engineers in the company is a silly thing to do. The fact that MS laid off a bunch of Nokia team has absolutely no barring on the engineering effort MS will put into mobile.

I'm not buying the idea that the abstract notion of "a complete ecosystem" can play an important role in an effective market share growth strategy.

Tell that to Apple, because that's how Apple sell Macs to iPhone users and why Mac sales are growing. Microsoft is just betting the other way - hoping Windows 10 desktop users would buy a W10M to accompany it. This strategy makes sense, and for once MS actually has a good footing to start with due to W10 desktop being well received, unlike W8 which had a terrible reputation which dragged down everything along with it. So yes you CAN indeed sell it to people the idea of a fully "in" ecosystem. The issue is going to be Microsoft's marketing effort, which we can all agree on is terrible, but MS does have a unique product experience in hand that cannot be full realised with a mixed environment. Yes you do get some of it, but it's not best.

 

[tgp]

It's okay that you mention it, but it's not okay to spin it as MS not caring about W10M. Those are completely different things. It would be like saying that since iOS only has 15% of the market share that Apple doesn't care about iOS unless they start lowering their hardware price by half to "beat Android". It's not an apt analogy to make to begin with, so I'm going to point out how ridiculous it is.

Apple and Microsoft are in two different leagues in mobile. Apple of course would like to have a higher market share (meaning higher sales; what company wouldn't), but what they have is fine because they make a boatload of money. Apple makes more profit than any company in history. Microsoft so far has lost a lot of money in their mobile division.

Microsoft needs higher sales. Apple doesn't. If Microsoft made a profit at 2.7% market share, they wouldn't care either.

 

[cw3k]

It's unrealistic for people to say these phones should be under $500.

Spec wise, 950/950xl are on par with any flagships out there. Plus continuum, Windows Hello, SD card slot, exchangeable battery, dual SIM, and the expected superior camera they are truly strong competitors.

Strategy wise, MS won't want these two phones comparable with Nexus. Nexus has always been the representative of the best budget phone, while 950/950xl aim at premium business and WP fans markets. They will be charged similar to Galaxy S6 and iphone, but a little bit lower to compete.

My guess is $579 for 950, and $659 for 950xl.

The price will need to be in under $500 to be attractive to users other than hardcore Windows fans. 1+2 is selling with the same Specs for under 400 with 64gb. There is really no reason why MS, who has billions in profit cannot do it. They are giving away W10 free anyway. If it price in the $600 or $700, then there is really no reason to buy a WP when you it cost the same or more than an IOS/Android phone with similar specs. FWIW, you can go to eBay and get a S6 128gb for about 600 used. Samsung Exynos 7420 performs better than the Snapdragon 810.

I remembered HP release the TouchPad years ago with WebOS and priced it the same as an iPad. Guess where is TouchPad and WebOS (PalmOS) now?

While I agreed W10 is nice, but without phone Apps, it is just a basic camera with basic phone functions. No one is paying $600 or $700 for a basic camera phone. I admit I would like to give WP10 a try, but at 700, I will write it off.

 

[mmar1974]

MSFT should create that "certification" LTLMC (Long Term Loyal Microsoft Customer)

 

[tgp]

There is really no reason why MS, who has billions in profit cannot do it.

Certainly they can, but how much longer should they keep throwing money at it? It has already been 5 years...

 

[cw3k]

Certainly they can, but how much longer should they keep throwing money at it? It has already been 5 years...

MSFT was doing it wrong in the earlier days. Had a good competing premium phone, yet only released it for AT&T instead of selling it unlock. They have stores and online store too. Then treat the developer like crap. Instead of doing something like come develop our phone and we waive all fees for 2 years, they changed a higher fee. A lousy store, still a lousy store after 5 years.

MSFT still want to be in this market and I hope they don't make the same mistake again. They should price this phone at 0 profit or even take a loss on it. Waive the fees for the airs for 1 to 2 years. Get the users base and you can charge whatever you want. But now, WP has no users

Like I said, 1+2 has the same specs and it is selling for under $400. I don't see why MS should price the 950 in the 600 range.

Price this phone in the 400s and it will be feature headline for all tech and phone sites for the next few months. Developers will jump it on it too.

 

[ejlee072006]

At this point MSFT should stop this practice, there's no reason to hide the new phones, you not apple you are not Samsung u are catching up, release the phones saturate the market or if you can't do all that just drop windowsphone and move on


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[ejlee072006]

Looking at this leak photos, those phones are still DOWNGRADE for my LUMIA 1520


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[jcrider]

thanks

 

[Aquila]

Roughly 24 hours until we will probably find out what the actual strategy is. I have a feeling that there are quite a few more people in the, "I will buy this no matter what it is priced at" camp than in the, "I'm only buying if it is cheap" camp. Of course, prior to last week I didn't know either one existed, not sure how many are in that camp.

 

[Tien-Lin Chang]

Just a quick question, for those who insist 950/XL should have a premium price-tag. How many of you will really buy it?

If the ratio is low then how you expect the outsiders will pay for it when the insiders shows low desire to really aquire them?

Plus the different carriers/fequence/area usually require different models, it create a difficult situation either the massive stock unsold or limit units made/carriers supported and make them like unicorn - the 1520/930 case AGAIN?

I think it will be a real challenge for MSFT.

 

[Paul Cordova]

Looking at this leak photos, those phones are still DOWNGRADE for my LUMIA 1520


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Downgrade? Ha ha look at the specs. Or are you just upset at the color options?

 

[ejlee072006]

Its not always about the specs, you have to look at the overall appearance! Yes! The COLORS SMH


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[Paul Cordova]

I will most likely buy the 950XL at any price point.
That being said it may also be my last Windows phone if MS doesn't bring a better level of support to it and its app environment. Also the carrier issue may change that. If it's not on Verizon I'm not sure I would jump carriers to get it. I agree that a price point about $100 less than other flagship would help.