10-08-2015 02:22 AM
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  1. tgp's Avatar
    There is no virtue in following the herd.
    Except in this case, there is virtue in "following the herd."
    10-05-2015 07:02 AM
  2. Tsang Fai's Avatar
    Many people get addicted to apps. They tend to install the latest apps, be it cool or not, be it useful or not. They spend lots of time everyday on apps.

    They are sacrificing their precious time on smartphones, all because of apps.

    I do spend time on apps like Facebook, local news apps. That's it.

    Life is not just smartphones. Sometimes we need to do other things.

    Having many apps on my smartphone does not make me happier or more successful. It just makes my busier life even busier, which is no good.

    So WP is suitable for people who do not want to be controlled by smartphones. It should be the user who controls what he can do with a smartphone.
    10-05-2015 07:23 AM
  3. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Soooo anecdotal evidence defines the perspective of the entire global population?

    I think not.

    There are ridiculous amount of factors that have contributed to fact why Windows Phone has less than 3% global market share. The key word being Global, in some countries it is actually in double digits. Over all it is doing much better than Blackberry; if their latest handset(s) running Android doesn't take off... I really don't see them lasting in the phone space any longer.
    libra89 likes this.
    10-05-2015 07:44 AM
  4. paulxxwall's Avatar
    Soooo anecdotal evidence defines the perspective of the entire global population?

    I think not.

    There are ridiculous amount of factors that have contributed to fact why Windows Phone has less than 3% global market share. The key word being Global, in some countries it is actually in double digits. Over all it is doing much better than Blackberry; if their latest handset(s) running Android doesn't take off... I really don't see them lasting in the phone space any longer.
    Yes but the global reason is probably the lack of apps ! Nothing else.oh yes and the occasional omitting of something good. When I first got to WP they had about 120,000 apps now maybe 300,000 . No local apps mostly cheesy ones! WP is cheap you would think it would have better market share but it doesn't......ask around you'll see.
    10-05-2015 08:03 AM
  5. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Yes but the global reason is probably the lack of apps ! Nothing else.oh yes and the occasional omitting of something good. When I first got to WP they had about 120,000 apps now maybe 300,000 . No local apps mostly cheesy ones! WP is cheap you would think it would have better market share but it doesn't......ask around you'll see.
    Yes, however that is one part of the argument not the entire argument.
    10-05-2015 08:16 AM
  6. James Jordan4's Avatar
    Who is it aimed at? those that don't want iOS or Android. If it works for you, take it, if it doesn't move on :) You're not doing yourself any favors by sticking around with a platform you don't like or deem inferior to the others
    Very well said.
    Kevin Rush and the1 like this.
    10-05-2015 10:04 AM
  7. ejlee072006's Avatar
    Ummm windowsphone user since 2010,
    This is a known problem,
    I say windowsphone is for users that don't care about apps, now the problem is that, MSFT knew about the app gap problem and yet they won't do anything about it. We don't even see any commercials on TV, they should focus on older people, I've seen old people being coverted to iPhone by there kids, even though all they do is call and text, I think if u don't care about games,snapchat etcccc wp is OK for u.but MSFT have to recognize it though, they have to target this people and they have to DO IT!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    10-05-2015 10:12 AM
  8. ejlee072006's Avatar
    I'm sick and tired hearing about this APP GAP PROBLEM
    Wake up MSFT it's almost 6 years!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    10-05-2015 10:13 AM
  9. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    Regular people/adults, don't play pokemon.
    TIL I am not a regular person.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    10-05-2015 11:16 AM
  10. Marko Marjanovic's Avatar
    I just want to win 10 be relased so i can instal vsco cam because i really do like vintage and calm kinda look on my instagram feed. That's about it.
    I have everything integrated or in store that suit my need and after win10 i can even have that apps all of them talking about. Just port them from ios or android. That's the plan folks, keep calm, we all have our jimmies rustled..psstt everything will be over soon enough.
    10-05-2015 11:20 AM
  11. ArtificiallyYours's Avatar
    Yet another hyperbolic essay that comes down to "you aren't using iOS or Android, you're not NORMAL"...

    This is why phone wars are best reserved for petty manchildren.
    10-05-2015 01:47 PM
  12. paulxxwall's Avatar
    Yes, however that is one part of the argument not the entire argument.
    True only one part ! But the biggest part!
    10-05-2015 02:28 PM
  13. Aquila's Avatar
    Part of your problem here is that you've framed your question around this concept of 'regular people' as if such a thing exists and if it did, that there is significant overlap in their interests. You like to play Pokmon, I play Fallout and will miss out on the Pipboy app when I play Fallout 4 on my Xbox. Is that enough to switch?

    Another question is over whether people are always able to make the best decision for themselves even if the market wasn't skewed.

    For instance, few people like to think about their personal security. They have the perfectly reasonable expectation that devices wouldn't be sold insecure. They also expect that the data they send through the internet is not being stored and collated for use by a third party for its own advantage and we both know that both these expectations were violated from day one with Android.

    There are two reasons Android simply isn't adequate from a security point of view. Firstly, it is old technology adapted for a use model that was never imagined at the time and incorporating a technology - JavaScript - which is notorious for being a security disaster area. I was not surprised when the Stagefright bug was uncovered, because it is only the latest of several serious security flaws found in code not intended for purpose. I hope all your Android toting friends are using the Zimperium app to check their devices aren't open to malware. Android is no more secure than Windows was in the late noughties and it will take a similar titanic effort to straighten it out. In fairness, Google, Samsung and LG have committed themselves to the same monthly update schedule Microsoft took so much flack for, but it's much harder to get those updates on to phones generally.

    The second reason Android will never be secure is Google itself is an advertising company, their whole business is based upon the assumption that you have no legitimate claim of ownership on information about you. It simply isn't in Google's interest to respect your privacy; at very best, Google's interests can be said to be indifferent to your own.

    It is a simple historical fact the Google have often had to improve security on Android after public outcry. For instance, they only made device encryption the default after the BBC ran a story on the Tesco Hudl tablet leaving files readable after a hard reset. Similarly, Google are facing anti-trust proceedings after it was found that they were skewing search results to favour their own services. Are you sure you want this organisation to have your personal data and that of your friends? Are your sure you want to your Pokmon app that much?

    To my mind their are only two viable smartphone options: iOS and Windows Mobile, and that's because the day to day functionality (Windows phones do so much out of the box.) and security of my mobile computing life is too important to sacrifice for convenience or the sake of following the herd.
    This isn't going to be popular on Windows Central, I know that there are many who hate Google... you may fire at will.

    I may ask you to back that bus up a little bit. Two claims that may need to be adjusted with some additional context:

    1. Stagefright: At its HEIGHT the media ran with the story that over 1 billion devices were effected. In truth, stagefreight had the ability to impact less than .08% of devices at the time that it was discovered and no single device has ever been impacted in the wild. All devices running Android 4.0 were systemically protected by other mechanisms within Android for all known attacks that this vulnerability had available. The devices at the highest risk were Android phones running API level 10 Gingerbread 2.3.3 to 2.3.7 with more than .5GB RAM and Tablets/Google TV and other devices on API levels 11 through 13 Honeycomb with more than 1GB of RAM and being MMS capable through cellular radios. You can imagine the tiny number of devices that this is comprised of. The security updates rolling in September and October eliminated the first step of the risk so that unknown implementations of this attack can not expose undiscovered vulnerabilities that could make it through the other 6 layers of defense against this attack.

    2. Privacy: Most users of things that connect to the internet are aware of the fact that they are giving their information to some company or another. The question about privacy, from a public perception, typically generates fear of that information being SHARED. In most cases, people think of data being bought/sold/traded, etc. Google has a unique model in AdSense with which your data, stuff about you, never makes it to the advertiser. Instead, the ad is placed by Google and the revenue is shared with the site, etc. at the expense of the advertiser and all of this happens with your data never leaving Google's side of the equation. This is unknown to most users, but Google takes another step and forbids themselves from sharing your data with ANY third party (unless required to do so by law, such as via a VALID warrant) without your explicit permission to share specific data with that specific third party. They give you complete control over this. This is different from the approach that say, Apple takes, where they give themselves permission to share your anonymized data with whomever they choose. To the end user, this is more or less the same thing - personal details about you, connected to your identity, never make it outside of the company you shared it with. BUT, Apple is trading data and Google is not. This is the opposite of the public perception. That said, Microsoft gives itself permission to share data within their network of Microsoft controlled affiliates, subsidiaries and vendors. This SOUNDS like the worst of all three, but in reality it just means that they outsource some of their big data analysis, etc. I have not heard of a situation in which Microsoft has abused user privacy other than the Yahoo partnership fiasco from 2013 but users of all systems should remember that their Outlook account belongs to Microsoft, their gmail belongs to Google and their Facebook belongs to Facebook, etc. On a similar note, ever word typed in this forum belongs to Mobile Nations.

    I don't really think that any mobile OS is inherently more secure that another, I do think some users are more inherently secure than others. That said, Google has a LOT of FUD being spread about them and most of it is being spread by hypocritical mouthpieces of companies that actually violate the tenants for which they want to accuse Google of violating. Yes, Google's business is data mining and turning that data into two things: 1. useful features and 2. (most important) dollars. Apple and Microsoft are in the same business with the same tools and they're doing the exact same two things with data - they just have a different way of describing it and a different twist on the feature-set.
    10-05-2015 07:25 PM
  14. 7a2eer's Avatar
    I use it for the integration with our home system. I came straight from Symbian, bypassing IOS and Android. Would I like for WP to get more respect from vendors? Absolutely, but until that happens, I like the interface, and reliability.
    Can you knowingly say you prefer the interface of WP when W10M takes nearly all UI elements from Android/iOS?
    10-05-2015 09:39 PM
  15. CygnusOrion's Avatar
    For me to even consider switching back to Windows Phone, I'd need:

    * all the Google apps
    * a payment system on par with Apple Pay
    * Cortana should be backed by a knowledge graph as expansive as Google's adding new cards all the time
    * 3D Touch and "smart tiles/icons" that give context-specific actions based on pressure sensitivity applied to the screen
    * banking apps
    * Dropbox, Zillow, Instagram, Facebook, Candy Crush and the other top 500 apps on iOS/Android not just there, but same quality & updated!
    * best-in-class first-party MS apps experiences(Outlook, Groove, OneDrive, Office, etc...)
    * hardware that exceeds the latest iPhone(Surface Phone)
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    10-05-2015 10:29 PM
  16. tangledW's Avatar
    For me to even consider switching back to Windows Phone, I'd need:

    * all the Google apps
    * a payment system on par with Apple Pay
    * Cortana should be backed by a knowledge graph as expansive as Google's adding new cards all the time
    * 3D Touch and "smart tiles/icons" that give context-specific actions based on pressure sensitivity applied to the screen
    * banking apps
    * Dropbox, Zillow, Instagram, Facebook, Candy Crush and the other top 500 apps on iOS/Android not just there, but same quality & updated!
    * best-in-class first-party MS apps experiences(Outlook, Groove, OneDrive, Office, etc...)
    * hardware that exceeds the latest iPhone(Surface Phone)
    You just described a device with features that neither Android or iPhone have individually.

    I'd suggest you buy an iPhone 6s and new Samsung, then duct tape them together.
    10-06-2015 12:30 AM
  17. Slovenix's Avatar
    People around me that are 20y+ seems to switch to Windows phones and prefer it. However I'm like the youngest out of those and when I ask them if they know Snapchat (that thing everyone seems to cry about) they don't even know it or think its stupid and they also don't care about Google and neither Microsoft, they just want something that works.
    libra89 likes this.
    10-06-2015 12:45 AM
  18. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    What kind of people is Windows Phone (And next, Windows 10 Mobile) aimed at? Not the regular people.
    In 2010, I'd say windows phone was aiming those who fed up with the UX of android yet no ready to pay for iPhone. Providing smooth UI, simple(refreshing?) design and basic function in a more affordable price. Fair enough

    In 2012, I'd say people were expecting windows phone can sync work with windows (the same NT core blah) and showing greater ability with the state-of-the-art SPEC on par with droid phones (those S4 flagships).

    But in 2015, I'm not sure. The UI smoothness? Even we ignore the sluggish when actual running apps and resume/reload issue, the main screen smoothness isn't that special anymore.

    This video shown that with smaller loading from metro UI design, android device from the same time (the lagdroid era) can achieve similar smoothness.

    The semi-interactive tiles UI is not change for 5 years and more than 10% of the PC are sharing similar UI - it's strange to say iOS/Android UI are boring if your PC/tablet/phone all look the same in the near future isn't it?

    The 3rd party launcher for sure give android way more possibility and refreshness than WP.

    The camera? The OIS+41mp was the ACE card MS/Nokia had at it's time, but with new sensor design the sharpness/resolution of new camera performance on the mobile market are increased significantly. With no clue how much effort MSFT still put/keep in image department I'm not sure how much advantage this 8x FxAA 5mp supersampling photo can keep? The new 20mp camera not even mentioned if it got PDAF, I couldn't see ANY special hardware-wise and software work can be achieved/copied pretty soon. Not to mention how much they can solve the traditional white balance problem all the way from 920 to 830.

    The low price at entry-level product? After three years the MSFT entry level product (even 550/640) won't stand a chance in a head-on battle against android entry level machines. You can get one kicking 830's *** hard in around 150USD off-contact and that's really a treat.

    The new, really sync with deaktop, windows 10 mobile OS? They might really got the sync dream achieved, but with cloud everyone can work anywhere anytime so I couldn't find a real strong feature in windows 10 mobile so far...

    I hope I was wrong :)
    10-06-2015 03:20 AM
  19. Ian Too's Avatar
    This isn't going to be popular on Windows Central, I know that there are many who hate Google... you may fire at will.

    I may ask you to back that bus up a little bit. Two claims that may need to be adjusted with some additional context:

    1. Stagefright: At its HEIGHT the media ran with the story that over 1 billion devices were effected. In truth, stagefreight had the ability to impact less than .08% of devices at the time that it was discovered and no single device has ever been impacted in the wild. All devices running Android 4.0 were systemically protected by other mechanisms within Android for all known attacks that this vulnerability had available. The devices at the highest risk were Android phones running API level 10 Gingerbread 2.3.3 to 2.3.7 with more than .5GB RAM and Tablets/Google TV and other devices on API levels 11 through 13 Honeycomb with more than 1GB of RAM and being MMS capable through cellular radios. You can imagine the tiny number of devices that this is comprised of. The security updates rolling in September and October eliminated the first step of the risk so that unknown implementations of this attack can not expose undiscovered vulnerabilities that could make it through the other 6 layers of defense against this attack.
    Firstly, thank you for your response. It's good to stick to facts and makes such a change from the usual Android user response.

    I take my lead on security matters from Steve Gibson of the Security Now podcast. If he says the situation isn't good enough, as far as I'm concerned it isn't. Steve covered Stagefright over three or four weeks, covering its discovery, going through technical issues, explaining the type of attack and why features like address space layout randomisation(ASLR) do not adequately defend users against hackers exploiting these weaknesses - don't forget Stagefright is actually seven or eight separate vulnerabilities. Don't forget features like ASLR are not new or unique to Android; they were developed on Windows years before they were incorporated into Android - and hackers have long ago developed strategies to get around them. Also, as I understand it, these vulnerabilities are zero-day, which means they are already being exploited in the wild.

    2. Privacy: Most users of things that connect to the internet are aware of the fact that they are giving their information to some company or another. The question about privacy, from a public perception, typically generates fear of that information being SHARED. In most cases, people think of data being bought/sold/traded, etc. Google has a unique model in AdSense with which your data, stuff about you, never makes it to the advertiser. Instead, the ad is placed by Google and the revenue is shared with the site, etc. at the expense of the advertiser and all of this happens with your data never leaving Google's side of the equation. This is unknown to most users, but Google takes another step and forbids themselves from sharing your data with ANY third party (unless required to do so by law, such as via a VALID warrant) without your explicit permission to share specific data with that specific third party. They give you complete control over this. This is different from the approach that say, Apple takes, where they give themselves permission to share your anonymized data with whomever they choose. To the end user, this is more or less the same thing - personal details about you, connected to your identity, never make it outside of the company you shared it with. BUT, Apple is trading data and Google is not. This is the opposite of the public perception. That said, Microsoft gives itself permission to share data within their network of Microsoft controlled affiliates, subsidiaries and vendors. This SOUNDS like the worst of all three, but in reality it just means that they outsource some of their big data analysis, etc. I have not heard of a situation in which Microsoft has abused user privacy other than the Yahoo partnership fiasco from 2013 but users of all systems should remember that their Outlook account belongs to Microsoft, their gmail belongs to Google and their Facebook belongs to Facebook, etc. On a similar note, ever word typed in this forum belongs to Mobile Nations.
    This is good to know, but I don't think I ever accused Google of sharing data with third parties. For me Google themselves crossed the line, by using user's property to track them. It is one thing to send a device's (and therefore user's) location when that user requests a service and completely another to continually track their movements. Google, Facebook, Microsoft and Apple have all inadvertently shared user information with the NSA, GCHQ etc, so I'd rather that type of information wasn't collected at all.

    I don't really think that any mobile OS is inherently more secure that another, I do think some users are more inherently secure than others. That said, Google has a LOT of FUD being spread about them and most of it is being spread by hypocritical mouthpieces of companies that actually violate the tenants for which they want to accuse Google of violating. Yes, Google's business is data mining and turning that data into two things: 1. useful features and 2. (most important) dollars. Apple and Microsoft are in the same business with the same tools and they're doing the exact same two things with data - they just have a different way of describing it and a different twist on the feature-set.
    Well everybody has a right to their opinions, but I can't agree with the assumption that all OSs are equal in terms of security. The whole point of closed ecosystems like those of Apple and Microsoft is that all apps are vetted prior to publication so users can be safeguarded against malware. Although I'm happy that apps downloaded from the Play store are safe, there's nothing stopping users from installing apps from somewhere else. Also, Apple do not store user's fingerprints on the device, but hash the image so that the fingerprint cannot be recreated, but HTC for instance stored the fingerprint as an unencrypted jpeg. Then there was the case where Samsung stored the PIN for their Knox secure folders in cleartext on the device. Why do you expect me to agree that the levels of security are the same when I can point to these and other serious breaches? You over time have shrugged each of these off, but I don't have the same investment in the ecosystem that you do, so I've no reason to be as lenient. By all means point to similar stories about Microsoft's mobile ecosystem if you can find them.

    The simple fact is that Android is the new Windows with security not only not the top priority, but often compromised by OEMS. With Windows at least you can say it was programed before viruses were prevalent, but Google had Windows as an example to learn from and Microsoft learned from their brush with Code Red, such that most third party anti-virus/firewalls actually increase the attack surface on PCs (again, according to Mr Gibson, who recommends Microsoft Security Essentials.).

    As for FUD, well you can't tell people who follow Microsoft anything about that, given the hysteria surrounding Windows 8, Windows 10 and Cortana. But I won't accept that accusation against me, because I've linked to reputable sources like the BBC and The Guardian, not some click-bait site that splits the story up into eight pages so you have to load more ads.

    Finally, don't fixate on Stagefright, because I'd rejected Android long before that and long before I came to hated Google for not respecting my right to choose which phone I carry. My concern was and is exactly what other vulnerabilities there are and could these tiny drops ever club together to make a torrent. Exactly how many leaks does this bucket actually have?
    a5cent likes this.
    10-06-2015 04:30 AM
  20. Aquila's Avatar
    I'd agree with a lot of your points and I dont think that any mobile OS is set up with the user's privacy and security in mind.

    And to be clear, when I'm talking about the FUD being spread, I'm talking about Tim Cook, The Verge (and other media), etc. as they have the responding to know better when they are speaking to the public. Most people will never read their chosen company's privacy statement, let alone research beyond that.

    Microsoft has been in the tech media's scary monster clickbait crosshairs for awhile concerning windows 10/privacy settings and almost no reporting goes to what they actually do - it is all focused on what they could do with an improperly worded statement.

    Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator, Gonfaloniere
    Thallanor likes this.
    10-06-2015 07:37 AM
  21. TechFreak1's Avatar
    True only one part ! But the biggest part!
    Yes and No, people got along just fine before the app-centric era however the younger generation know nothing beyond the world of their apps.

    Most of the banking apps are web wrappers but given quite a few have embraced the digital era and incorporated scanning. Places still have plastic membership cards, however its obviously easier to carry a phone with everything on it as opposed to as wallet full of plastic cards.

    On the flipside when you lost your wallet you had to order new cards and pins (plus perhaps you would've lost photos of loved ones as well) whereas with a phone you lose hell of a lot more. Digital credentials to your bank account (online banking), social media account access, email access, photos, diary notes, your frequently visited places (GPS logs) etc etc.

    So yeah, as nice and convenient it is to have everything in one place... but it is beyond incomprehensibly inconvenient when you lose or have your phone stole. Similiarly the Experian hack - Experian was allegedly being used a cleaning room for companies to avoid identifiable information being leaked or stolen BUT having everything held (cleaned) by Experian meant - everything was/is easily identifiable...
    10-06-2015 08:56 AM
  22. Aquila's Avatar
    Sorry for getting off track on the privacy part - that's a fun debate that deserves its own thread(s). Here's my take on Windows as a mobile platform for the average joe:

    Comments are average Joe's, not mine.

    1. No one is using it (sorry WC people) - I'm concerned about the ways I communicate with my friends/family not being available. After all, when I switched from iOS I lost iMessage, Facetime, etc... what am I losing now by going from Android to Windows?
    2. The sales person is telling me to buy something else. Aren't they the expert? If the Note 5 and iPhone 6sPlus aren't the best, why are they the most expensive?
    3. Does this even work on my carrier?

    That's all before picking it up. Those are hurdles. Now, the question of the day - once I (or Joe) pick up the device - what is there that is going to cause me to want to keep it and what is there that is going to make me want to throw it away? And most importantly, what isn't there?

    Watching the live event now.
    MikeSo and bsbharath1987 like this.
    10-06-2015 09:05 AM
  23. MikeSo's Avatar
    Honestly, I wonder why I keep staying with WP myself. I have no explanation. Seriously.

    I guess it just feels good, and I like to be different.
    vw412fan and Thallanor like this.
    10-06-2015 10:40 AM
  24. Davestrada's Avatar
    We are the same.
    10-06-2015 11:19 AM
  25. salvabigboy2's Avatar
    If windows phone had a app store like an android or up a device then I would most definitely get a windows phone again! I love the design, camera, and os! It's soooo smooth and easy to use! Sadly, it's the app store that keeps me from getting another one

    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    10-06-2015 11:57 AM
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