10-08-2015 02:22 AM
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  1. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    LOL, consistency? Did you ACTUALLY say that? Let's see. I started with WP7 (Samsung Focus followed by Lumia 900). Then Microsoft started all over with WP8. I got the 920 and then a 1020. When they went from WP7 to WP8 we LOST features, important ones. Then we went from WP8 to WP8.1 and lost MORE. Now Microsoft has started over AGAIN we we've pretty much lost everything that was great about the operating system. If W10M had been the system they launched with instead of WP7 I'd have never given up my feature phone for a smartphone. There's been nothing consistent. And now there's really nothing LEFT of the phone anymore.
    For some of us who got framed by MS many times it's very natural to be against their new OS. I have also been nailed down with WP7.8 trash fiasco, Windows RT ditch and run. and now windows 10 on mobile which runs like and old rugged car. social integration is a total mess! ever since 8.1, it takes you over 10 seconds to post a simple photo to facebook, all apps are either outdated or missing important features, skype client is a bad joke, facebook messenger lacks audio hd and video call etc etc. So yeap, no thanks MS, I cannot trust them anymore.
    Ray Adams likes this.
    10-07-2015 08:50 AM
  2. sameersaab's Avatar
    WP is for nerds like us who are very involved and basically fan boys of a different OS. 8.1 is perfect, as far as I am concerned, but am afraid that an iphone/android user would not like to move if they are used to a ton of apps. 10 mobile is thus far a disappointment, it seems like its just trying to be android - therefore may no longer be a good option, I'm not looking forward to giving my my 1520 yet; whereas when I was on 7, I couldn't wait for 8.
    10-07-2015 09:42 AM
  3. 511pf's Avatar
    It's not for regular people.
    Regular people use Facebook, YouTube, Snapchat and WhatsApp. They also jump into the latest fads: Flappy Bird, Candy Crush, Tindr etc.
    This is an excellent point - and why Windows Phone works for me. I literally use ONE thing on that list - YouTube. And the third party apps for that are fine.
    libra89 likes this.
    10-07-2015 10:42 AM
  4. Shahmeer Shahid's Avatar
    The first thing we should do to solve a problem is to identify it's cause. Yes the app ecosystem is badly tainted in windows phone and I believe its only Microsoft's fault that things have gone so bad !! Hardly a 100 or so crucial apps are needed for 99% of users to be satisfied with their phones and have a good experience and Microsoft should have had blindly pursued those said developers to make and update apps for their platform. I'm talking about the early wp7.5 to wp8 era where suddenly social networking expanded from a handful of websites to app social networks such as snapchat and instagram. Had MS capitalized at that time on getting the developers of such apps on board things might have been different. I'm only happy with windows phone right now because I have a secondary device (nexus 5) with me and I've installed almost every single trending app on it and keep it with me most days and almost always use that when i am at home. For me windows phone has become a glorified feature phone that does smart things. Nowadays the modern smartphone is defined by the latest software features it can pull off and these are defined by apps. Even if MS right now concentrates whole heartily in providing a good experience for atleast those 100 or so apps which appear on top free/paid app lists on the google play store, it may catch up because like i said 99% of users only install and use these apps.
    10-07-2015 11:04 AM
  5. Spicymikey's Avatar
    I love my WP. But I am worried how apps are disappearing from the store and I cannot do what I could a year ago. I'm giving it one more year before I make a decision. I'm going to buy a 950. But I don't recommend a WP to my friends and family anymore. It's just not competitive if you want to use the "smart" part of a smartphone because access to thirdparty services and apps is limited and dwindling
    10-07-2015 12:03 PM
  6. Citizen X's Avatar
    I've found the two groups of people who can be satisfied with a Windows Phone are:

    A) People who don't need the latest apps, and can do okay without Google, this generally includes parents. I've set my parents and my wife's parents up with the Here Suite and a handful of other media, news, and weather apps. These are things the Windows Phone store has in abundance. I show them how to pin stuff to their start screen, and they fall in love each time with Windows Phone. I can't over-emphasize this, the Start Screen is one of the original ideas that is still there and it is STILL the best thing Windows Phone has going. It is still a great alternative to the app whack-a-mole method on iOS and Android.
    Yup. Parents. As long as they can call, text, email, a little web surfing and do some Whatsapp parents are happy. They don't need a billion apps. I pin useful stuff to the home screen so they don't have to hunt for it. They are happy.
    10-07-2015 12:16 PM
  7. wpfan86's Avatar
    I love my WP. But I am worried how apps are disappearing from the store and I cannot do what I could a year ago. I'm giving it one more year before I make a decision. I'm going to buy a 950. But I don't recommend a WP to my friends and family anymore. It's just not competitive if you want to use the "smart" part of a smartphone because access to thirdparty services and apps is limited and dwindling
    What significant apps have disappeared from the store?
    10-07-2015 12:21 PM
  8. elindalyne's Avatar
    The app situation should change sooner rather than later... One of the things that most people don't really seem to grasp is that you don't just get the WP marketshare, but you also get the W10 marketshare. There is literally no work for a dev that has already created a phone app to port that over to W10.

    Adding to that Astoria and Islandwood, I don't think the app-gap will be an issue for much longer.
    10-07-2015 12:21 PM
  9. minus365's Avatar
    Recently, I use my phone mainly for emails (got 3 emails accounts synced in - 2 personal, 1 business), bit of internet browsing, photos, mobile banking, my Xbox stuff. Skype, OneDrive....
    I am perfectly fine with what Win10 offers. I want to be safe with all my needs, would it be Office, OS integration/syncing across platforms, etc....
    Personally, I don't have time to go through zillion of apps in store while seeing 99% rubbish, bloatware, full of ads.. I am fine with what Windows store offers. Of course, would like to see Windows10 being same attention of developers as Android and iOS, but nothing dramatic....

    The way I see it, cheap Android for blokes on budget, Apple for all those freaks and trendy people (honestly I don't see any sense in taking selfies while holding my phone in top corner outside of bus window :D).
    Windows for all others who JUST want to stay productive and don't need to spend life on fiddling with the device. No need for bells and whistles. I just need "almost" desktop experience and I am perfectly fine. End of story.

    Desperately waiting for the Surface Phone to bring PC in my pocket.
    10-07-2015 12:32 PM
  10. William Bergmann's Avatar
    My Lumia 1020 was probably my favorite phone ever. I love the UI, and I love the standard elements (contacts, dialer, camera, etc...). Alas, when my 1020 's screen broke, I took the plunge and moved over to Republic Wireless, which meant a Moto X Gen 2.

    The hardware is very comparable, except for the camera, which is terrible. Speed is good. I had to tweak the UI pretty hard to make it baseline usable.

    That said, it's 10x more usable as a day-to-day device for getting things done. I can deposit a check into my bank account without driving to the bank. That one app saves me 20-40 minutes a week. That is huge. Just knowing that, if there is n app that I want to use, I have a 90% chance of it existing, rather than a 30% chance, is simply put, huge.

    Further, I think the WP7>WP8>WP10 jumps have hurt the brand's momentum, as has the confusing mess of phones spread across the carriers over the years. It's taken so long to get to the point where we have a cheapo model, a flagship model, and big screen model, and have all 3 available in the same form factors from all carriers...

    I'm starting to get some faith back, and I will be saving for a 950 XL down the road... But I need to know that it will just work, and that it will be supported, and that the apps I depend on will still exist a year down the road.
    MikeSo likes this.
    10-07-2015 03:27 PM
  11. Thallanor's Avatar
    Can you knowingly say you prefer the interface of WP when W10M takes nearly all UI elements from Android/iOS?
    Don't confuse the design decisions made for apps w/ the design of the OS. In regards to the OS itself, what is it one sees the most? The lock screen. The notification centre. The Start Screen. The closest one might get to Android or iOS is the notification centre. But the lock screen? The Start Screen? How do you figure the layout management, live tiles, etc. are in any way taken from iOS or Android?

    If you want to start arguing about hamburger buttons, app icon placement, etc. that is fair, but the OS itself is pretty different from the two you mention.
    10-07-2015 04:00 PM
  12. Thallanor's Avatar
    For me to even consider switching back to Windows Phone, I'd need:

    * all the Google apps
    * a payment system on par with Apple Pay
    * Cortana should be backed by a knowledge graph as expansive as Google's adding new cards all the time
    * 3D Touch and "smart tiles/icons" that give context-specific actions based on pressure sensitivity applied to the screen
    * banking apps
    * Dropbox, Zillow, Instagram, Facebook, Candy Crush and the other top 500 apps on iOS/Android not just there, but same quality & updated!
    * best-in-class first-party MS apps experiences(Outlook, Groove, OneDrive, Office, etc...)
    * hardware that exceeds the latest iPhone(Surface Phone)
    You're... asking for a device that doesn't exist even amongst Android or iOS offerings. O_o What _are_ you currently running? Or smoking?
    CygnusOrion likes this.
    10-07-2015 04:03 PM
  13. ianberg's Avatar
    My wife likes her Nokia Lumia 520 but she primarily uses it for phone calls, texting and camera. She's uninterested in using it for email, Facebook and games, she goes straight to our iPad for that because she likes doing those activities on a larger screen. If she wasn't using this Windows phone she' be fine with a discount Android.
    10-07-2015 04:06 PM
  14. Thallanor's Avatar
    But in 2015, I'm not sure. The UI smoothness? Even we ignore the sluggish when actual running apps and resume/reload issue, the main screen smoothness isn't that special anymore.
    I am an avid supporter of Windows Phone, but I gotta admit, after Windows 10 Mobile's Start Screen loading loop finally got to me, I rolled back to W8.1 and I realized how much of that sluggish nature I had been putting up with with W10M, simply in the name of "living with it." I am one of the loudest when it comes to "it's pre-release, expect some of this" but it wasn't until going back to W8.1 that I realized how much of all those little things I was putting up with. I'm praying that over the next month or two, we're going to see more and more performance and bug-related updates to W10M but if the experience remains similar to how it was when I was on it last week... it's not good.
    MikeSo and Tien-Lin Chang like this.
    10-07-2015 04:07 PM
  15. Thallanor's Avatar
    In my opinion, this point right here overrides any advantages WP may have. And "couple" should be changed to "quite a few." When this gets covered, then we have something.
    What is a "key app?" I don't mean in this in an accusing manner, but more in the hopes of clarification. It's hard to debate if those things are not laid out. I think, one might find - and that's more or less the point I'm seeing in this entire thread - is that what a "key app" is varies from one person to the next.
    10-07-2015 04:13 PM
  16. Thallanor's Avatar
    I think Windows Phone's UI is the most readable. Visited someone who's vision deteriorated because of exposure on the battle field, said he could read the text on the Windows Phone Hamburger Menu just fine without me having to hand it over.
    I can agree with this. I have a condition where I lost vision in my left eye, most of my vision in my right eye - surgery next week. But having been an Apple fanboy for years until switching to a Samsung Focus years ago, and also running an Android smartphone just to play with, I have to say that Windows Phone is the a) easiest to access the accessibility options and b) has accessibility options that are the most effective.

    Granted, my Start Screen now looks like something akin to a Pong playing field with just black and white boxes, and most people can likely read it from 10 feet away now, but at least it's usable. :)
    10-07-2015 04:20 PM
  17. Thallanor's Avatar
    LOL, consistency? Did you ACTUALLY say that? Let's see. I started with WP7 (Samsung Focus followed by Lumia 900). Then Microsoft started all over with WP8. I got the 920 and then a 1020. When they went from WP7 to WP8 we LOST features, important ones. Then we went from WP8 to WP8.1 and lost MORE. Now Microsoft has started over AGAIN we we've pretty much lost everything that was great about the operating system. If W10M had been the system they launched with instead of WP7 I'd have never given up my feature phone for a smartphone. There's been nothing consistent. And now there's really nothing LEFT of the phone anymore.
    What features were stripped from each iteration of Windows Phone? I know there have been changes - and the one that still stings is the "post to all social media" option in the Me tile - but I'm curious what else?
    We're seeing major changes, but I don't see them being much different than the iOS -> Fisher Price redesign or Android's annual UX refresh. And while requiring a new device to upgrade to W8 was frustrating, it's also that which led me to finally ditch iOS in favour of Windows Phone.
    10-07-2015 04:24 PM
  18. Thallanor's Avatar
    These phones are meant to be personal - regardless of OS - and that makes it difficult to define what a "regular" user is. I don't think there is any benefit to answering your question specifically, either, as it will not affect the outcome of your decision. What _will_ affect the outcome of your decision is that you need to sit down and make a list of what apps are absolutely critical. Is Pokemon required? Then Windows Phone is not for you. That makes the decision easy. If that app is in the middle - one you would like but could do without - then keep working on your list. You'll eventually make a decision.

    Personally - and I fully admit I'm likely not a "regular user" - I find that most of the apps that I need and want are available on Windows Phone. There are some glaring exceptions, but they're ones that I've found comparable apps to. I used to find with my iPhone that I'd suffer from downloading every single app that looked interesting, whether I wanted it or not. The result was a cluttered phone. Lately, I _welcome_ the opportunity to pare down my apps list, to keep things running fast and efficiently. Again, I know that's likely different from most.

    When it became possible to side load Android APKs on W10M, I immediately went to a couple "Top 100" apps pages for Google Play. The result was that out of all of those apps, there were only a couple I was mildly curious about, and the rest I simply couldn't care about. (Now I _know_ I'm not regular - those apps are, after all, Top 100 for a reason.) But this just proves what I'm saying - step back and look at your needs and your wants and what you can do without. The decision will be clear.
    libra89 likes this.
    10-07-2015 04:34 PM
  19. Mindi B's Avatar
    The app situation and thus an almost non-existent ecosystem is why I left WP for iOS earlier this year. I still miss WP so much, but it has nothing to offer sadly, other than whatever the OS itself has out of the box.

    I never cared much for apps before leaving for iOS, but I've definitely noticed a whole new world opened up since I jumped ship. I have access to SO MUCH now, and everything is updated very very regularly. Having developers and organisations SUPPORT your chosen platform and having your experience evolve is something users don't get to experience on WP. I can go anywhere, see an advert or offer, and right away interact without any hesitation of whether my chosen platform is supported. It totally opens the modern world right up.

    I'm sure plenty of you will refute that WP 'has little to offer outside of the OS', but it's just the truth,. not a random troll. That you guys can't experience that on your chosen platform sucks - WP deserves a LOT of success. It's damned awesome.

    I hope that the new working partnerships between MSFT, FB and IG can be a catalyst for WP to gain momentum - I want to come back, but only if there's something to come back to.

    So in regards to what the OP wrote, he's right - WP just won't cut it for the public out there the way it is these days. People need their apps and services, iOS and Android are mature ecosystems now, people have their expectations and modern lives to get on with. They're not going to research third-party apps, they're going to expect the REAL thing is there, that they can download install and have a seamless experience. But that's the total opposite of the reality.
    10-07-2015 06:11 PM
  20. jamiept's Avatar
    Yes, we need apps. Apps, apps, apps.

    Why is this constantly being discussed as if nobody understands? If you are convinced that WP is not for you, why try and convince others as if they don't already know what WP does and does not offer?
    Thallanor likes this.
    10-07-2015 09:18 PM
  21. CygnusOrion's Avatar
    You're... asking for a device that doesn't exist even amongst Android or iOS offerings. O_o What _are_ you currently running? Or smoking?
    I currently have an iPhone 6S, but I am not 100% satisfied because I am coming from first having had Windows Phone and then Android. I wish I could have an Uber-Phone that combined the best of all 3.
    Laura Knotek and Thallanor like this.
    10-07-2015 10:21 PM
  22. Thallanor's Avatar
    I currently have an iPhone 6S, but I am not 100% satisfied because I am coming from first having had Windows Phone and then Android. I wish I could have an Uber-Phone that combined the best of all 3.
    Was it the... HTC HD2? I believe it was, that was to ship with Windows Mobile 6.5 but was so close to Windows Phone 7 that it shipped with that instead. They go for a fortune on eBay from time to time because apparently, you can install WM6.5, WP7, Android, and a couple other OSes. :) Of course, the hardware is ridiculously dated now.

    Side loading APKs is part of the solution, though technically unofficial at this point. And from our standpoint, probably always will be, unless we're a developer trying to port apps. One can hope though! It's a slippery slope though, adding Android app support... I can see where people argue that if I developed Android apps, why would I even bother? I suppose if you keep it unofficial, but make it super easy for Android developers, we might see something.

    Regardless, yes - if we could get the key features from all mobile OSes into one? Would be amazing. Of course, that would lead to a lot of copycat accusations, if not outright lawsuits, but would be amazing. Ah well... I can dream!
    10-07-2015 11:25 PM
  23. Thallanor's Avatar
    The app situation and thus an almost non-existent ecosystem is why I left WP for iOS earlier this year. I still miss WP so much, but it has nothing to offer sadly, other than whatever the OS itself has out of the box.
    While the app situation is currently below that of iOS or Android, I think that we're at a point where it's make it or break it. With Universal Apps and the ability to easily port from Android and iOS, it's one last chance to see if it can be made to work. Failing that, I suppose there is the option to make Astoria user-friendly so anyone with two brain cells to rub together can download from the Google Play Store and install onto Windows Phone.

    As for apps, it can still be frustrating from time to time. I work on a daily basis supporting Android, iOS, and BlackBerry devices. (And to a much lesser extent, Windows Phone.) Yeah, I see some apps that would be nice to have on WP, but I cannot say as I need them. I think I've mentioned before that I'm a bit weird in terms of keeping my WP clean. I like apps, and install a lot, but if there is something I want, but isn't available, I kinda go "well, at least it's less clutter." :)

    Granted, there are 1-2 apps I'd really like to see, but they're not major. Mainly a couple fitness apps I really liked on iOS. (I used to run iPhones as my daily driver for about 4 years.) I think it's really just that 1-2 apps that every person wants that would make or break the app store. I mean, beyond that, how many fart apps do we need? :)
    10-07-2015 11:30 PM
  24. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    I am an avid supporter of Windows Phone, but I gotta admit, after Windows 10 Mobile's Start Screen loading loop finally got to me, I rolled back to W8.1 and I realized how much of that sluggish nature I had been putting up with with W10M, simply in the name of "living with it." I am one of the loudest when it comes to "it's pre-release, expect some of this" but it wasn't until going back to W8.1 that I realized how much of all those little things I was putting up with. I'm praying that over the next month or two, we're going to see more and more performance and bug-related updates to W10M but if the experience remains similar to how it was when I was on it last week... it's not good.
    Actually I tink that's why MSFT's new flagship goes to the top line from QCom and I believe the SPEC war will going on between W10M and Android no matter how hard some WP fans refuse to admit by the resource saving image MSFT had implanted ti their mind.

    It's not ture

    For some reason my ATIV S had stuck at WP8.0 GDR2 for so long that I got directly upgrade to WP8.1 GDR3 and man I gonna tell you it's obvious performance drop but for most other it might be a slow progression. They have the super fast/smooth image from WP8.0 and every update it got slower a little bit "not a big deal, it still got a lot to offer, it still smooth, still way faster than lagdroids" <-- I've heard lots of this. Prople just fixed on the original image then refused to look around until the W10M TP really make the phone looks like an old man after some terrible stroke "it just TP, what do you want? Just going in/out the app got slower, the main screen still fast"

    I got the feeling that MSFT was a bit too cooky to think they can bring all WP8 device up to W10M and make everyone happy with what they got with the low-spec hardware they provided.



    Seeing how hard these guys trying to avoid launch any app is really funny lol.

    I really hope with the newest SoC the W10M can be powered up to the level like the day WP7/8 punch us
    10-07-2015 11:30 PM
  25. Muessig's Avatar
    This thread had strayed away from its original purpose and has resulted in members bickering with one another. Thread closed.
    10-08-2015 02:22 AM
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