11-15-2015 11:46 AM
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  1. Pete's Avatar
    Simply put, there isn't enough people that use the phones. New WP only being released on one carrier in the USA doesn't help, and their market penetration across the world is no better. Why should we spend the time porting when there just isn't enough to justify the time/cost of porting to ANOTHER platform? I hate to say it's but it's all about the money, and WP isn't where the money is app. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Gamer as well, I met my wife though on an online gaming clan. I want to make fun, entertaining, addictive games... and to get the most people playing, and paying for said game... I gotta go where the people play and pay. And that ain't WP.
    I'm not app developer, but from what I've read, Microsoft has put a great deal of effort into making Android->Windows Phone porting as easy as possible for devs.

    Out of interest, in what way are these development tools inadequate for your purpose, and have you made any attempt to talk with Microsoft about how to improve your time/effort cost in bringing your software to a larger market?
    11-13-2015 09:00 AM
  2. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    When reading his post.... it's pretty easy to see why as a dev WP is so far off my radar.... it's kind of a "eeeeeh, maybe, if we have time." kind of thing.
    I don't much care about the past. I want to know if it really will take about as much time to port apps to WM10 as to fetch a cup of coffee. Of course there will be coding for apps that use a service not on WM or if a developer wants to tweak it to "look" more like a native app, but I want to know how easy it really will be to just port without the cosmetic changes. Just how many non Windows services/APIs does an average app use. If most apps can really be ported without coding changes then that's all it will take to close the app gap. The time to tweak the cosmetic stuff or adding enhancements that only Windows will allow are secondary
    Pete likes this.
    11-13-2015 09:01 AM
  3. Paul Cordova's Avatar
    Unfortunately I'm on Verizon and at a point I don't wish to pay to switch carriers. That being said I recently purchased a Note 5 (3 weeks now). I left it from a Nokia Icon running Windows 10 TP.
    I can say there things about both I prefer. I'm not going to list them though as I personally think MS is falling flat on this release. Re opening preorders price drops before release. I would go back to a 950XL if one were to be available on Verizon because I'm a fan. Fans won't make this release a success though. I can say that traveling to various states across the US, it's super rare to see a fellow windows phone user in any major airport I've been to. Having said that that the Note is a great phone as well and I'll be fine with keeping that should MS limit itself, carrier wise, in the US.
    I hope they prove me wrong I really do.
    11-13-2015 09:08 AM
  4. Paul Cordova's Avatar
    I'm not app developer, but from what I've read, Microsoft has put a great deal of effort into making Android->Windows Phone porting as easy as possible for devs.

    Out of interest, in what way are these development tools inadequate for your purpose, and have you made any attempt to talk with Microsoft about how to improve your time/effort cost in bringing your software to a larger market?
    I'd like to know this as well. The keep saying as easy as possible but easy is not necessarily cheap. If there is still a cost why would one do it with proof of a return. The universal app idea sounds great but where are they?
    11-13-2015 09:12 AM
  5. jmagwp's Avatar
    Ever heard of the game “Cook, Serve, Delicious!”? It's an indie title that has been though the porting game, with versions of the game on iOS, Android, and PC. Check out the founders take on sales of his game through the various platforms. I should also note I made an error, we will be making a PC version of the App as well... so his take is VERY relevant.

    Gamasutra: David Galindo's Blog - How much do indie PC devs make, anyways? (Part V)

    When reading his post.... it's pretty easy to see why as a dev WP is so far off my radar.... it's kind of a "eeeeeh, maybe, if we have time." kind of thing.

    Simply put, there isn't enough people that use the phones. New WP only being released on one carrier in the USA doesn't help, and their market penetration across the world is no better. Why should we spend the time porting when there just isn't enough to justify the time/cost of porting to ANOTHER platform? I hate to say it's but it's all about the money, and WP isn't where the money is app. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Gamer as well, I met my wife though on an online gaming clan. I want to make fun, entertaining, addictive games... and to get the most people playing, and paying for said game... I gotta go where the people play and pay. And that ain't WP.
    I understand your position, but your position is also limited to gaming. Personally, I don't have enough free time to play games on my phone, hence I don't have a single game on my device and never will. I want my phone to be productive, to help me manage my info, my personal life, my business life, etc. And I'm not alone. My point is that the mobile world is much, much bigger than games and there is an enormous opportunity for developers.
    11-13-2015 09:21 AM
  6. Ian Legarda's Avatar
    Answering the original post....... I don't know.

    I don't know why my sim card can never stay put for longer than a day on my Note 4. I also don't know why it can't stay put for longer than a day on my Lumia 830.

    People complain about the resuming screen on the Lumia 830. Yes, it's there occasionally, but MY Note 4 lags as well. There are times when the screen is unresponsive for over 10 seconds and there are times when you can definitely notice the display stutter.

    I do not use that many apps, hardly in fact. But the two apps that I do need/use for work exists in the Google Play store and not in the Windows Store. On days that I use the Lumia 830, I still have to carry the Note 4 for use with these apps. I do not like carrying two phones. Bank of America stopping support and pulling their app was a speed bump. It's so much easier accessing my banking needs on the Note 4.

    Widgets, live tiles. I prefer the live tiles. Most android widgets I've come across are terrible. I am a a 1 homescreen kind of user. I do not scroll to other homescreens on android (I removed them) and I do not scroll downwards on the Lumia 830 either. I have everything I need on one screen, accessible at one glance. For my use case, the Lumia 830 does a much better job then the Note 4. I can get more information on the Lumia 830 than I can on the Note 4 with the apps and homescreen layout that I use.

    The keyboard. I've tried the other Android keyboards out there. I still think the Lumia 830's keyboard is that much better. I have fewer errors. Text prediction and auto correct also seems to be better on it. I have 2 languages installed on both keyboards. Swype also feels so much better to use on the Lumia 830.

    Updates. I've tried Build 10536 & 10581 on the Lumia 830. From the two builds I've used I can say that WM10 has gotten better, but I am back to Denim on the Lumia 830. The bugs have kept it on Denim thus far, maybe an RTM build would make me go back to the previews. The Note 4 is still on 5.0.1. I am at the mercy of TMobile which seems to be taking their time to push 5.1.1 to the Note 4's, who knows when we'll see 6.0 (will it ever see 6.0?)? I highly doubt it will be receiving any of the monthly security patches that google is pushing out and that some manufacturers are pledging to deliver.
    11-13-2015 09:29 AM
  7. StaticXCC's Avatar
    I'm not app developer, but from what I've read, Microsoft has put a great deal of effort into making Android->Windows Phone porting as easy as possible for devs.

    Out of interest, in what way are these development tools inadequate for your purpose, and have you made any attempt to talk with Microsoft about how to improve your time/effort cost in bringing your software to a larger market?
    There is no magic wand when it comes to porting, no matter what Microsoft says or has done to help. Depending on the type of App, it might be a simple process, or a complex nightmare. That's as specific as I'm willing to go into for various reasons or another. Sorry.
    11-13-2015 09:30 AM
  8. StaticXCC's Avatar
    I understand your position, but your position is also limited to gaming.
    Yea that's the thing... it's not really limited to gaming. Cook Serve was just intended to be shown as an example, not as a all encompassing answer.

    Still not convinced of my argument? That's OK as well. The amount of apps on the Windows Store speaks for itself really. App submissions have been going DOWN since 2013 last I read (sorry, don't have the link on me, you can probably bing it somewhere). If the devs were raking it in... that would draw devs from iOS, Android, and PC. That hasn't happened in any significant amount. I mean sure, you have the really BIG names like Facebook and Twitterz, but.... for the most part... nadda.
    11-13-2015 09:37 AM
  9. Pete's Avatar
    There is no magic wand when it comes to porting, no matter what Microsoft says or has done to help. Depending on the type of App, it might be a simple process, or a complex nightmare. That's as specific as I'm willing to go into for various reasons or another. Sorry.
    Yes, I can see how that depends on the app. I guess the point I'm making is that there's several million Windows 10 devices out there (desktop/tablet/mobile) who's users could potentially use your apps, but you seem willing to write off the effort as well as the potential revenue those users can generate for you. There's gold in them thar hills, you know, and all it would take is rustling up a few wagons...

    But I get it, it's just not economical for you to invest effort in a developing marketplace. Many other devs feel the same way and for want of tending, the field falls to rot and ruin.
    11-13-2015 09:45 AM
  10. StaticXCC's Avatar
    Yes, I can see how that depends on the app. I guess the point I'm making is that there's several million Windows 10 devices out there (desktop/tablet/mobile) who's users could potentially use your apps, but you seem willing to write off the effort as well as the potential revenue those users can generate for you. There's gold in them thar hills, you know, and all it would take is rustling up a few wagons...

    But I get it, it's just not economical for you to invest effort in a developing marketplace. Many other devs feel the same way and for want of tending, the field falls to rot and ruin.
    IDC: Smartphone OS Market Share 2015, 2014, 2013, and 2012

    Just something to look at, and get depressed over if you like Windows Phone.

    I've played with the Windows Phone, it's nice I like the ideas... but it's not really worth it to me on a personal level to switch carriers and switch from android to wp. If as a dev I'm not willing to do this, what makes you think it's worth it for the average consumer?

    When SmartPhones first came around, (I'm looking at you Blackberry and Palm) they had the user base... Apple comes out and WhOa! Steals the thunder. iPhone does great, old smartphones left in the dust (blackberry, I loved ye)

    Android comes out... and gets to the point it's great to... so great, it steals market share from iPhone. Well we know where Android vs iPhone is from a market share point of view now don't we?

    It's entirely possible for Microsoft to develop a phone that will WOW consumers and make people switc. It's happened twice in the smartphone world. If Microsoft's new phone is compelling enough for consumers... they will switch, and then DEMAND devs port over, quickly. Microsoft simply hasn't made the Windows phone compelling enough. It doesn't need to be "As Good" as Android or iPhone. It needs to be better, MUCH better to get that WoW factor in. Simple as that. It's not up to thee developers to sell Microsoft's product for them. It's entirely on Microsoft. Microsoft feels the same way actually. If they didn't, they wouldn't take a cut of our sales.

    It's that simple.
    11-13-2015 10:03 AM
  11. Pete's Avatar
    Ok, so lets forget the market share argument because it's irrelevant in this particular argument (since Universal apps apply to all form factors and you need to consider Windows users having a far larger user base than just mobile).

    So your argument has now shifted from time/resource considerations to your own personal opinion of Windows Phone as an operating system.

    And the number one reason that reviewers have offered bad feedback regarding Windows Phone? It's not the hardware or specification or the OS itself, it's the lack of apps.

    Lets put it another way, there's not a huge amount of really great apps out there for Windows or Windows Mobile. There's a big market there, why not grab some of it?

    I don't mean to be beating on you, I'm just trying to understand concrete reasons why developers aren't making the best of what they have open to them. I'm not yet seeing any compelling reasons I'm afraid.
    920Walker likes this.
    11-13-2015 10:19 AM
  12. alexx17's Avatar
    no fragmentation, cool ui no static icons, i can uninstall any apps i do not want to have...not just deactivate them.
    RumoredNow and hiya15 like this.
    11-13-2015 11:12 AM
  13. jdawgnoonan's Avatar
    I hope that the Universal platform brings the apps. Right now without the apps W10M has no advantage unless you are fully immersed in the MS ecosystem. I like the platform, but it isn't my job to support the platform in the hope that it might succeed. They need to entice me back with real advantages. I have an SP3 already, so I don't need to connect my phone to a monitor.
    11-13-2015 11:26 AM
  14. RumoredNow's Avatar
    4. Links open in app instead of browser
    Click on a Wikipedia link on a Bing search? official Wikipedia app opens to that article. Click on a YouTube video? official YouTube app opens the video. Heck click on a windowscentral link and the WC app will open to show you the article.
    Personally, this would drive me bonkers.

    "NO, you stupid App. I'll call you when I want you. I TELL YOU, YOU DON"T TELL ME. DIE APP, DIE."

    [/psychotic break]
    11-13-2015 11:28 AM
  15. jdawgnoonan's Avatar
    I work in information security, and today windows out of the box is more secure than other platforms (Macs, Linux). That is before the user touches it. Most people don't realize this though and judge windows reputation by pre SP2 XP.
    RumoredNow, 920Walker and libra89 like this.
    11-13-2015 11:31 AM
  16. user234's Avatar
    Windows phone is better for getting security updates,
    I'm still waiting for T-Mobil to Fix Stagefright v2. on my LG G3, and that's just unacceptable.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    11-13-2015 11:32 AM
  17. hiya15's Avatar
    Another fanboyisms thread..... Tiles are just not for everyone, but icons are.

    Next!!!
    Not agreed, Icons were for me only before I came to know the Tiles and I am sure I am not the only one.
    You can not assume icons are for everyone.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    11-13-2015 12:25 PM
  18. ben55124's Avatar
    I think anyone who is still using a Windows phone sees something special. For me it's the value of a L640 and I like the tiles. My most used app is audible and that's surprisingly good now.
    920Walker likes this.
    11-13-2015 12:36 PM
  19. saulgould13's Avatar
    Well for one the UI and lives tiles resonated with me since 2013.. Still rockin it going into the New Year.
    RumoredNow and 920Walker like this.
    11-13-2015 12:46 PM
  20. MicrosoftWinPho's Avatar
    I like the performance. The S6 which my mum has screws up a lot of the time whereas my 1520 still works after 2 years of continued abuse.

    I've had an iphone 4, Samsung s2 and then a windows phone. I love my windows phone after trying them all out. Fortunately the lack of apps doesn't affect me at all since I have all the apps I need.

    However, My favourite mobile OS is WP7 for its integration. I've not really played with W10M to comment.

    I'm looking forward to my 950 XL though :D

    One more thing... I've made quite a bit of money on writing apps for WP7/8/8.1 and W8/8.1 :) I plan on carrying on with that for W10M. So thank you guys for supporting me :D
    RumoredNow, Jazmac, hiya15 and 1 others like this.
    11-13-2015 02:00 PM
  21. Valtheus's Avatar
    Personally i don't think there is nowadays any point to compare mobile or even desktop OSes. Yeah maybe the early years of their development would make sense, but not anymore. All three OSes are really good mobile systems that will do the job one way or another. They all got apps more or less, they all got a modern UI, they all got similar functionality. Pretty much the same story goes for hardware.

    So it all comes down to a matter of personal preference. I for example started with the iOS and the first iPhone, then turned to Android, and one day i decided i liked windows mobile better. Why? Personal preference for different reasons. I can do the same exact things with an android or iphone device, thats for sure, i just prefer my 640. Its that simple.
    jpharwood likes this.
    11-13-2015 02:19 PM
  22. James8561's Avatar
    Thanks dude. (1,4 and 5 are all browser related making the list 6. Launcher and widgets are of the same class making what you do, 5 things) In short, what you do is not demonstrably different with these five things to what anyone else does or can do with Windows Phone. That is the only point I wanted to get to. When you list all of what a smart phones capabilities are in your other post, then compare it to this reality, it looks like YOU don't do much beyond what WE or anyone else on this or any platform are doing with the smart phone. Sans Continuum.
    No, we don't have access to some of the social time wasters available on other platforms, but we truly don't miss much else that matters. And if I didn't say it before, WM10 is amazing. But again, I appreciate your candor.
    Adguard isn't actually only browser related since it blocks in-app ads as well.
    I get your point that we all use our phones similarly, but since the title of the thread asks why one OS is better, I just want to list out how Android do certain things better than Windows phone. In fact, many of the things I listed aren't even possible on a WP.
    I highly encourage you to try out other mobile OS

    And like I said I'm still a fan of WP. My first smart phone was Lumia 920, upgraded to 1520. Bought various WP for my family. It's just that with the Galaxy Note 5 my eyes were open to the rest of the world and it's a wonderful world outside of the WP bubble.
    Last edited by James8561; 11-13-2015 at 02:58 PM.
    11-13-2015 02:45 PM
  23. DrewT3's Avatar
    It's entirely possible for Microsoft to develop a phone that will WOW consumers and make people switc. It's happened twice in the smartphone world. If Microsoft's new phone is compelling enough for consumers... they will switch, and then DEMAND devs port over, quickly. Microsoft simply hasn't made the Windows phone compelling enough. It doesn't need to be "As Good" as Android or iPhone. It needs to be better, MUCH better to get that WoW factor in. Simple as that. It's not up to thee developers to sell Microsoft's product for them. It's entirely on Microsoft. Microsoft feels the same way actually. If they didn't, they wouldn't take a cut of our sales.

    It's that simple.
    When Apple wowed the market it wasn't with advanced features. It was with a simple, finger driven UI that made things like taking pictures, emailing and web browsing easy. Remember that the first iPhone didn't even have apps while Palm, Symbian and Windows Mobile had extensive app catalogs and capabilities far more advanced than the iPhone's.

    The power users and road warriors weren't excited about the iPhone, it was the average person who found Symbian or Palm too hard to use. Once Apple cracked the mass market, the apps came. The power users came for the higher quality apps.

    In 2015 the masses already have a smartphone, there isn't another untapped market to sell into. Now the problem would be to convert the existing smartphone owners, which is much harder than the problem Apple faced in 2007.
    11-13-2015 03:14 PM
  24. StaticXCC's Avatar
    Personally, this would drive me bonkers.

    "NO, you stupid App. I'll call you when I want you. I TELL YOU, YOU DON"T TELL ME. DIE APP, DIE."

    [/psychotic break]
    He left off when you first click said links or open apps in android, you can set it as the default app at that time, or just once... just like windows. And you can change your default apps at any time. No need to have a psychotic breakdown good sir.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android, Samsung Note 4
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-13-2015 05:24 PM
  25. StaticXCC's Avatar
    Ok, so lets forget the market share argument because it's irrelevant in this particular argument (since Universal apps apply to all form factors and you need to consider Windows users having a far larger user base than just mobile).

    So your argument has now shifted from time/resource considerations to your own personal opinion of Windows Phone as an operating system.

    And the number one reason that reviewers have offered bad feedback regarding Windows Phone? It's not the hardware or specification or the OS itself, it's the lack of apps.

    Lets put it another way, there's not a huge amount of really great apps out there for Windows or Windows Mobile. There's a big market there, why not grab some of it?

    I don't mean to be beating on you, I'm just trying to understand concrete reasons why developers aren't making the best of what they have open to them. I'm not yet seeing any compelling reasons I'm afraid.
    Well as I said, a desktop program is planned, so perhaps with the universal stuff it'll be easy. We will see. We are a small company... 2 people, so supporting ios, android, wp, and desktop all together may be a strain.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android, Samsung Note 4
    11-13-2015 05:29 PM
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