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  1. tgp's Avatar
    I am starting to notice something with this thread and many others on this forum recently. To me it seems like WP has peaked and is now in decline. For years we were told WP was a new operating system, give it time for developers to develop apps and for the operating system to mature. At some point however it seems to have died a death, people have given up and jumped to iOS and Android and rather than W10 mobile improving things I think Microsoft are flogging a dead horse. This saddens me as I love Windows Phone, the app situation is what has killed WP unfortunately.
    You make a good point, and I would be inclined to agree. It certainly seems that Windows 10 (Mobile) is what the world has been waiting for. I believe it is at least a step in the right direction, hopefully more. Windows 10 will fix everything!

    However (isn't there always a however or but?), consumers are probably getting wary because we've heard that with pretty much every iteration of WP since its inception. How long does this keep going? Market share has barely remained steady the last 2 years. WP is yet insignificant. If it suddenly dropped out of sight, barely anybody (relatively speaking) would notice.
    08-27-2015 08:16 AM
  2. John Christopoulos's Avatar
    Windows Phones just aren't cool or hip and the app gap is real.. Most apps which are there lack in feature parity with other two platforms.. iOS and Android apps do look and work better and get updated with all new features more frequently than WP.. Games are another issue, games come so late if at all come to WP that everyone else had already finished playing them and already moved to the next cool one..Nothing stand out in WP, no unique feature in compare to other platforms besides the tiles which again too futuristic that people often don't like it.. Hardware choices are also limited.. No flagship in two years.. No mettle phones, no gimmicks (finger print scanner and alike which does sell) nothing...limited OEMs supporting the platform half heartedly.. All in all the perception is it's the third underdeveloped ecosystem which received nothing first, not cool, not hip and mostly only liked by fan boys either of Nokia s or Microsoft s... And I don't think anything gonna change this soon..

    Posted via the Windows Phone Central App for Android
    Agree, but i like that you are posting from Android FOR Windows Phone issues. That means you have studied WP and probably have to see much improvement with half the years of WP into the market. And there is also WP 10 Mobile that is not yet official, then we will see the crowd`s acceptance...

    And what is more, most Lumia phone actually act like flagships, without a ton of cores, even with half a gigabyte of RAM...
    libra89 likes this.
    08-27-2015 09:21 AM
  3. Doohickie's Avatar
    NO. You see, App gap MEANS you dont have apps to do important tasks. On WP, we have:
    1. Easy Transfer - WIFI file sharing
    2. wpTorrent - To download torrent files right from WP
    3. VLC - To play ANY video format you can name
    4. Files/Storage Sense - To browse files on your mini PC aka WP
    5. Internet Download Manager - To download in the background
    6. myTube! - The best youtube client, even better than the official youtube app!
    and many more. Hence, there is no app gap.
    Yes there may be some apps on rival OS which you may not find on WP. At the same time, there may be some WP apps that you cannot find on rival OS. We cannot call that as an APP GAP. You have SUPERBEAM on Android. We have EASY TRANSFER. Can you call this an app gap?
    To you, maybe. To me, app gap means the apps I want aren't available on WinPhone. This is true: There are a LOT of apps that simply aren't available on WinPhone. The iPhone and Android universes share the majority of their apps; WinPhone exists in a parallel universe. It's like having white and colored water fountains. Separate is NOT equal.
    theefman likes this.
    08-27-2015 11:46 AM
  4. Doohickie's Avatar
    And what is more, most Lumia phone actually act like flagships, without a ton of cores, even with half a gigabyte of RAM...
    The problem with that is people compare specs and see a big gap between Lumia and LG/Samsung/iPhone and think it simply isn't good enough.
    08-27-2015 11:48 AM
  5. Doohickie's Avatar
    However (isn't there always a however or but?), consumers are probably getting wary because we've heard that with pretty much every iteration of WP since its inception. How long does this keep going? Market share has barely remained steady the last 2 years. WP is yet insignificant. If it suddenly dropped out of sight, barely anybody (relatively speaking) would notice.
    This is exactly where I'm at.

    I jumped in with WinPhone two years ago as my first smartphone. I had a good experience initially, and it seemed like things were improving. Then two things happened: 1. The OS on my phone stopped getting support (I had an HTC 8X on AT&T. I got the push for WP 8 GDR2 shortly after getting my phone, that was the last OS update I ever got. So I went over a year and a half with virtually no OS support. 2. Several apps stopped working or were working worse. American Airlines (who I use for business travel) discontinued their WP app. Facebook integration with my contacts list was no longer supported (MS sent me an email that said, in effect, FB changed how they do things and we're not going to bother to update our integrated contact list to read their data). Several other apps just got buggy. I think the app developers moved on to WP8.1 and no longer supported WP8 apps.

    Early on it seemed like things were getting better, then they just steadily got worse.

    When I decided to upgrade, it made no sense to go with a WP8.1 when W10M is right around the corner and the WP8.1 look to be out-of-date already, especially since my experience with WP was that once you commit to a phone, things don't improve, they decline.
    08-27-2015 12:01 PM
  6. lparsons21's Avatar
    The fallacy of thinking that W10 will fix the gap is that most corporate/equipment apps are missing in Windows too. Instead things like banks and such use the web. While that is fine for many things, on a phone the web browser just suck because of the small screen they have to display on imo.
    08-27-2015 01:04 PM
  7. tallarob's Avatar
    I love my Windows phone and hate the thought of going back to iPhone, but there are several apps I can think of right off the top of my head:

    I just bought a new golf swing analyzer (SkyPro) and it works only with iOS and Android. - Thankfully I have an old iPad
    Epocrates
    Infinity TV app
    Publix (local grocery store chain)
    Acuralink - for accessing info on my car
    Golf Channel app
    I'm not a snapchatter, so I don't worry about that. Most of the big apps seem to be covered but it is the smaller specialty type apps where the deficiencies really show up.
    I get by fine with the apps I have, but there is no denying that Windows mobile falls short in the app category. I'm hoping Windows 10 universal apps will start to fill in the gaps.
    Laura Knotek and libra89 like this.
    08-27-2015 01:08 PM
  8. gernerttl's Avatar
    The fallacy of thinking that W10 will fix the gap is that most corporate/equipment apps are missing in Windows too. Instead things like banks and such use the web. While that is fine for many things, on a phone the web browser just suck because of the small screen they have to display on imo.
    Yes. Here is something else to consider. Much of what you mentioned can be accessed via a webpage. However, the problem is that the mobile webpage, if they have one, isn't as capable as the app. My credit union has an app for iOS and Android, but not for WP. I can use the mobile webpage to pay bills, transfer funds, etc. But only the app allowed me to deposit a check. Is THAT a deal breaker for me? Right now, no. Like I said previously, there are some apps that I wish I had, but they are not show stoppers at the moment.

    Am I contemplating jumping ship to either Android or iPhone... Yes. I thought about going back to Android, but I still think the OS is too fractured and hodge podge. iOS although blah and IMO, old and used up, would be for me a better option I think. From my experience with Apple products, they seem to play a little better with Windows than Android does.

    Right now, I'm holding off jumping for two reasons.

    1. Cost. I don't want to have to spend money again on apps I already own.
    2. I'm taking a wait and see approach on Windows 10 Mobile. I've already upgraded to Windows 10 on my desktop and SP3 and love the new OS. It is good looking, smooth, and more intuitive than Windows 8.1 was. I'm a Verizon customer, and right now it seems that Verizon is lukewarm on Windows Mobile devices. Although, there are rumors that Microsoft may make the 950/950XL available for all carriers. There are also rumors that HTC MAY release the M9 in a Windows variant, and even LG MAY release the G4 in a Windows variant. If HTC and LG do that, then I can see a tad more interest in Windows Mobile devices. HTC and LG have better name recognition in the US than Lumia does. If Microsoft can capitalize on that, then I see a better future with Windows Mobile devices. And name recognition is a big deal, even for app developers.
    Laura Knotek and Al4video like this.
    08-27-2015 03:04 PM
  9. akshaypn's Avatar
    Agree, but i like that you are posting from Android FOR Windows Phone issues. That means you have studied WP and probably have to see much improvement with half the years of WP into the market. And there is also WP 10 Mobile that is not yet official, then we will see the crowd`s acceptance...

    And what is more, most Lumia phone actually act like flagships, without a ton of cores, even with half a gigabyte of RAM...
    I am Windows Phone users since last two years and two months.. 1020 is still my primary phone and camera.. 1320 is a test device which is running not so impressive features wise and ugly and inconsistent UI wise Windows 10 Mobile... All I can say is WP 8 was a great OS and after that WP 8.1 and W10M are just downgrades in speed, stability, UI, look and feel.. I added an Android tablet last year and that's why I am not missing any apps or games and I can clearly see how far WP is behind.. This combo plus my ipod touch work for me, so I am not gonna leave Windows as long as my phones don't die.. My Android tablet never lags, no resuming, loading and I enjoy using all the basic apps and games on it like WC, Facebook, YouTube, Gmail, Maps and Twitter and many more, I have to say I never really enjoyed using these basic apps on WP..

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    RaRa85 likes this.
    08-28-2015 03:29 AM
  10. RaRa85's Avatar
    Here's a very small example of my quality over quantity argument. I think the apps that are already available need to be either updated or replaced. Here is our very own Windows Central App on Android and Windows Phone. Notice how the poll is embedded in the Android app and missing in the Windows Phone one. Again not a huge deal. But you add up these small features missing on just about every single cross platform app and you can see the vast difference between them.uploadfromtaptalk1440790896558.jpguploadfromtaptalk1440790907329.png

    Sent from my D6616 using Tapatalk
    chmun77, akshaypn and Laura Knotek like this.
    08-28-2015 03:41 PM
  11. 737 Pilot's Avatar
    To each his own. The convenience of having a number of apps that I use on the go makes Windows Phone very deficient. While I own 3 Windows Phones as MP3 players it just reinforces the fact that about 20% of my regularly used apps are not available and probably never will be. While most people talk about the Top 100 it is really the smaller ones that I miss - NHL team app, Baseball team app, Credit Unions, Brokerage houses, credit card apps - I could go on and on. That means my only real choices are iOS (I still refuse to pay the Apple Premium) and Android. Android has gotten much better and there are many good phones at the budget (Moto E), mid range (Moto G, Zenphone 2, Alcatel Idol 3, HTC Desire 626) and of course the high end. While I believe the recent decision by Motorola to sell one model with comprehensive radio support (all 4 major carriers - one model with World Phone capability, also) and now Microsoft to sell direct are the right moves I believe Microsoft will have even less brand recognition as I'm fairly sure that most people don't even know the Microsoft Store exists. I believe they will be lucky to hold on to the 2-3% share they currently have.
    08-28-2015 07:57 PM
  12. gernerttl's Avatar
    I found this article yesterday. Although, it doesn't specifically address the so called, "app gap"; it does talk about Microsoft's future in hardware and mobile devices.

    Did you all know that Windows Phone sales increased by 45%? Something to think about...

    Ignore the Noise: Microsoft Corporation's Future Includes Devices -- The Motley Fool
    Laura Knotek and libra89 like this.
    09-01-2015 12:36 PM
  13. Doohickie's Avatar
    Did you all know that Windows Phone sales increased by 45%? [/url]
    Hmmm... and why is that?

    The reason for the bump in smartphone sales with declining revenue was Microsoft's emphasis on low-end units, particularly in the fastest-growing segment: emerging markets.
    So they aspire to be the Kia of smartphones. If it keeps them around, great, but it's not exactly a compelling narrative to me.
    09-01-2015 02:49 PM
  14. Al4video's Avatar
    You say your Android tablet never lags, That means nothing to guy who has one that does lag...mine

    My Lumia 1520.3 doesn't lag. I bet there are plenty people who would beg to differ when talking about theirs.

    You either want windows phone or you don't.

    I miss my banking app. It's been over a year since I had it. I thought I was going to get sick, go through withdrawals or possibly die without my banking app.
    But oddly none of that happen and the world still turns. Imagine that.

    For all the people who are complaining about a device and or platform while knowing there is another platform available with all your little bells and whitsles, it just sounds silly.
    It's clear you have insecurity issues. You don't have the guts to leave windows phone. But you are happy making everybody miserable with complaints.
    I DARE ANY OF YOU TO LEAVE.
    jaimeastin and Mindi B like this.
    09-01-2015 03:18 PM
  15. gernerttl's Avatar
    So they aspire to be the Kia of smartphones. If it keeps them around, great, but it's not exactly a compelling narrative to me.
    Right now, the low-end market is being courted by everybody. Even Apple got into it with the iPhone 5c. Although, I don't think they did very well, in that they haven't released a low-end version of the iPhone 6...at least not yet.

    If it promotes Microsoft services and gets more of its devices in peoples hands, then that is a good thing. If I remember correctly, Samsung, LG, and HTC didn't immediately jump into the flagship arena. They started in the mid to low-end markets and then worked their way into the flagship market.
    libra89 likes this.
    09-01-2015 08:48 PM
  16. chmun77's Avatar
    You say your Android tablet never lags, That means nothing to guy who has one that does lag...mine

    My Lumia 1520.3 doesn't lag. I bet there are plenty people who would beg to differ when talking about theirs.

    You either want windows phone or you don't.

    I miss my banking app. It's been over a year since I had it. I thought I was going to get sick, go through withdrawals or possibly die without my banking app.
    But oddly none of that happen and the world still turns. Imagine that.

    For all the people who are complaining about a device and or platform while knowing there is another platform available with all your little bells and whitsles, it just sounds silly.
    It's clear you have insecurity issues. You don't have the guts to leave windows phone. But you are happy making everybody miserable with complaints.
    I DARE ANY OF YOU TO LEAVE.
    "Lag" is very subjective to different people. On Windows Phone, "lag" is represented by "Resuming". To me, if I move back to an opened app and instead of presenting me the UI, it is showing me a text "Resuming" and this is lag. On the other hand, whenever I switch between apps on my Note 4, the UI appeared instantly and ready to be used.

    Also, background processing sucks big time on windows phone. Casting video via TubeCast to the TV doesn't work when the phone is locked. The streaming will just stop and video freezes on the TV. The phone need to be awake in order to have nice streaming experiences.

    And I can tell you, I'M LEAVING WINDOWS PHONE FOR AN IPHONE BECAUSE I HAD ENOUGH OF ITS NONSENSES SINCE WP7. And oh, you cannot stop people from complaining in the forum. Take it or leave it.

    PS: I hate doing Internet banking via the IE on Windows phones. The browser is freaking slow and rendering looks weird.
    09-02-2015 02:57 AM
  17. Al4video's Avatar
    "Lag" is very subjective to different people. On Windows Phone, "lag" is represented by "Resuming". To me, if I move back to an opened app and instead of presenting me the UI, it is showing me a text "Resuming" and this is lag. On the other hand, whenever I switch between apps on my Note 4, the UI appeared instantly and ready to be used.

    Also, background processing sucks big time on windows phone. Casting video via TubeCast to the TV doesn't work when the phone is locked. The streaming will just stop and video freezes on the TV. The phone need to be awake in order to have nice streaming experiences.

    And I can tell you, I'M LEAVING WINDOWS PHONE FOR AN IPHONE BECAUSE I HAD ENOUGH OF ITS NONSENSES SINCE WP7. And oh, you cannot stop people from complaining in the forum. Take it or leave it.

    PS: I hate doing Internet banking via the IE on Windows phones. The browser is freaking slow and rendering looks weird.
    You aren't going anywhere. Quit whining. If you were leaving why are you still here trying to explain why you're leaving. THAT'S NONSENSE!

    That doesn't make sense. JUST LEAVE. I can assure you nobody will miss you. You will be in the Apple forum complaining by the end of the week.
    09-02-2015 03:16 AM
  18. akshaypn's Avatar
    Why would I leave when I already have devices of other platforms.. I like all of them and all the platforms, right now Android is my favorite though and I don't mind babysitting number of gadgets.. But for sure I won't buy anymore W10M phones.. And whenever my WP s die, I would pick up a Nokia, hopefully they will be there with Android powering them..

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    09-02-2015 04:02 AM
  19. smogz's Avatar
    I was using Windows phone before I crashed the device and had to go back to my old Android phone. For me there was no big app-gap. The problem for me was the Google-apps missing and the fact that lots of apps, for example Spotify, feels 3-4 generations older than the Android-apps
    09-02-2015 04:35 AM
  20. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    You say your Android tablet never lags, That means nothing to guy who has one that does lag...mine

    My Lumia 1520.3 doesn't lag. I bet there are plenty people who would beg to differ when talking about theirs.

    You either want windows phone or you don't.

    I miss my banking app. It's been over a year since I had it. I thought I was going to get sick, go through withdrawals or possibly die without my banking app.
    But oddly none of that happen and the world still turns. Imagine that.

    For all the people who are complaining about a device and or platform while knowing there is another platform available with all your little bells and whitsles, it just sounds silly.
    It's clear you have insecurity issues. You don't have the guts to leave windows phone. But you are happy making everybody miserable with complaints.
    I DARE ANY OF YOU TO LEAVE.
    A bit aggressive for no reason really. If people feel things are missing it's a personal thing and nothing do to with how good or bad WP is.

    As for leaving, I stopped using WP last November. I went full Android and I'm happy. So have others. We're still here on the forum because we still support MS and WP.

    I won't say I'll never own another WP but currently Android suits me better. I'm happy to wait for WP to mature more then go back.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 09-02-2015 at 05:11 AM.
    09-02-2015 04:55 AM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    "Lag" is very subjective to different people. On Windows Phone, "lag" is represented by "Resuming". To me, if I move back to an opened app and instead of presenting me the UI, it is showing me a text "Resuming" and this is lag.
    Not really.

    Using your definition, every OS with a boot sequence lags, since it takes a few seconds to boot into the OS. Other than giving you a way to apply a "bad word" to every OS in existence, your definition of the term "lag" serves absolutely no purpose.

    The term "lag" traditionally refers to a touch interface's inability to precisely track your finger movements. It is objectively measured as the largest delta between the distance your finger travels on screen and the distance traveled by the UI beneath it (over a period of time). Stutter is just that delta becoming larger and smaller over a short time frame, so that too is correctly referred to as "lag".

    The resuming delay is not lag. Neither is the time it takes to launch an app on iOS or Android. The time it takes for Chrome, Safari or Edge to send, receive and render a web page is also not reasonably referred to as "lag".

    Yes, these operations may perform more or less well on different operating systems. App switching on WP sometimes doesn't perform as well as one might expect, but it's not reasonably referred to as lag, at least not without every conceivable delay on every OS also being called lag, which is pretty much senseless.

    I'm not disputing your findings. I completely agree that task switching on WP has long been in desperate need of performance improvements. I just prefer terms to be more than meaningless buzzwords.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-02-2015 at 07:16 AM. Reason: formatting
    09-02-2015 05:01 AM
  22. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    The term "lag" traditionally refers to a touch interface's inability to precisely track your finger movements. It is objectively measured as the largest delta between the distance your finger travels on screen and the distance traveled by the UI beneath it (at any given moment). Stutter is just that delta becoming larger and smaller over a short time frame, so that too is correctly referred to as "lag".
    Being honest I never knew where the idea of 'lag' came from so thanks for clarifying that. You just took away most people's favourite complaint. :P

    That's of course if they understand what you wrote....
    a5cent, tgp, libra89 and 1 others like this.
    09-02-2015 05:14 AM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    Being honest I never knew where the idea of 'lag' came from so thanks for clarifying that. You just took away most people's favourite complaint. :P
    That's of course if they understand what you wrote....
    I know not everyone will get that, but my posts are really only directed towards the more intelligent/educated readers anyway. That's why we're both here, right? 😉

    And yeah, I think that obsoletes the whole "lag" issue on most devices. Not all, but most
    09-02-2015 05:23 AM
  24. c0wb0ycliche's Avatar
    Re: the aggression towards those who switched but still post here.

    I can only speak for myself but I imagine this is the case for others as well - even though I've switched - in my case extensively to Google devices and services - doesn't mean a) I don't still use Windows 10/Xbox One etc., and b) that I don't still passionately care about Microsoft's devices and services.

    I want nothing more than for Windows to be successful in the market, especially in mobile, and would switch back in a heartbeat if it somehow got to app, feature, service and device parity with Android and iPhone - even if I don't think that is going to happen.
    N_LaRUE and a5cent like this.
    09-03-2015 11:17 AM
  25. Al4video's Avatar
    Re: the aggression towards those who switched but still post here.

    I can only speak for myself but I imagine this is the case for others as well - even though I've switched - in my case extensively to Google devices and services - doesn't mean a) I don't still use Windows 10/Xbox One etc., and b) that I don't still passionately care about Microsoft's devices and services.

    I want nothing more than for Windows to be successful in the market, especially in mobile, and would switch back in a heartbeat if it somehow got to app, feature, service and device parity with Android and iPhone - even if I don't think that is going to happen.
    There's no aggression towards anyone. Matter of fact there's no reference to anyone who switched but remained here.

    There are two points of view though. Some of us who understood when we left Android and Apple for Windows mobile that it was going to be a tough go. But one that we were willing to take on. Not like those who seem to think this was going to happen overnight. Well it hasn't and it's not. You will be using beta versions and awkward upgrades until they get it right, despite all the moaning you can do.

    What's nauseating is the constant complaints about windows mobile whether you still use the device or not.

    Let's face it if you are using another device but still here complaining then you must not be satisfied with your Apple or Android device? I would think if that's the devices you are using now but longing for windows to succeed then you should be in the Android and Apple forum expressing your displeasure.

    Do they not tolerate your complaints in the Apple or Android forums?
    09-03-2015 12:54 PM
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