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  1. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    ^ Yup. When the average Android user hears "live tiles", they think "large icons and crippled widgets". Although that's not really correct, the actual differences are too subtle to be useful as an effective sales pitch, not to mention that widgets have a few of their own advantages.

    Live tiles are the face of WP, and as such they are a relevant branding tool, but that's it. A few of us may like them, but as a marketable feature they are irrelevant.
    Like what? What signature or stand out features they can add that could draw people towards WP, In your opinion?
    Continuum can be that feature, if it's done right. I really think Microsoft also should have done stylus support for more than just the 5.7-inch device, because 5.2-inch devices could benefit from it, and it'd just be something cool to offer, especially if they didn't make you buy the pen separately. Cortana could have been that, Office as well, but Microsoft put them on competing platforms. If Microsoft puts Xbox One streaming into the mobile app, but doesn't carry it to the other platforms, it can be that.

    Really, no one feature can be the answer. However, Microsoft HAS developed enough that, if kept exclusive to Windows Phone, could get the job done. If you could ONLY get Cortana, Continuum, Microsoft Office, Xbox One streaming, live tiles, Xbox Achievements, and the best camera experience on Windows 10 Mobile, it'd be a big deal. Instead, Microsoft has taken the route of mass appeal, so it's going to be tougher to convince people with just Continuum (since it's kind of a niche feature as it is), live tiles (since widgets on other platforms handle many of the beneficial tasks), and better pictures (since most people have low standards and mobile cameras have gotten pretty good across the board).
    Laura Knotek and gpobernardo like this.
    08-15-2015 03:47 PM
  2. gMaesterUK's Avatar
    People I speak to are generally favourable towards Windows Phone. However the 'perceived' app gap, and yes the quality of some apps are still an issue for some. With some of the recent flaws in Android & iOS there's been noticeable chatter about WP being a safer bet, or at least worth a look.

    I used to see posters on my carriers' community forum asking why the poster wanted a WP, however I don't see many of those posts anymore, which is good!

    The CTO of BoA recently mentioning that he wanted to roll-out Win10 soon (I know phones weren't mentioned) is actually a good indicator that business are looking for an easy "one size fits all" solution, and if MSFT manage to get Win10 Mobile (I haven't tried the Insider Program) to be a 'lite' version of it's bigger brother, companies might be tempted to go for a full-Windows experience.
    Software developers look at trends (or should do) so they're ahead of the curve, and if the buzz is about companies choosing a full-Windows experience then hopefully that'll give the devs a kick up the ar$e!

    I've just read June's release of Kantar WorldPanel data, and here in the UK, WP is now at 11.3%! And reading in the UK telecom industry news over the last few months, there's been a big push by providers towards WP (usually the 640). Even my own carrier keeps selling out of the 640!

    Just my input...

    G.
    natakur likes this.
    08-15-2015 03:58 PM
  3. Vikas_Kr's Avatar
    It's preconceived by people that Windows don't have apps. But the same people will say to use Linux despite of the app gap. Actually people want exactly same app on Windows as they see on Android .
    They need to understand that every OS doesn't need same app
    Many people asked me that why there is no antivirus on Window phone or task killers. They need to understand that it doesn't need those things.


    sent from my Lumia 535 using Tapatalk
    anon(7929613) likes this.
    08-15-2015 04:12 PM
  4. Krystianpants's Avatar
    The only app I really would like to have is "flipp". It's an app for store flyers.

    It's typical that developers who are early adopters on a platform and establish a base will gain a lot if the user base suddenly starts growing. So Gameloft stuck around and now with Windows 10 being provided to more and more people i'm sure they are already profiting from it and will continue to. Who knows how many are rushing to make windows 10 apps. Even stats on Steam are showing windows 10 is growing in numbers. Microsoft is still doing it in waves. And focusing on fixes. This is why we are getting cumulative fixes. So they haven't even provided it to everyone and already we are at 50 million.
    StarrWulfe likes this.
    08-15-2015 06:30 PM
  5. Angry_Mushroom's Avatar
    There is a continued app gap. There is no "we have better quality" or "we have fewer junk apps" because at the end of the day both Android and iOS have plenty more of the "good/useful" apps. While MS is working on a few tools to make app transition easier to Windows Mobile stuff, it's totally irrelevant until app developers start creating apps for our platform. Hopefully the promise of universal apps will push more devs towards doing stuff that would benefit everyone.

    Let's not delude ourselves, the Windows Phone ecosystem still trails the competition by a sizable margin, and this goes far beyond social apps.
    rdubmu likes this.
    08-16-2015 03:01 AM
  6. Visa Declined's Avatar
    Not having local apps for banks, stores, parks, pharmacies, and theaters is extremely detrimental to Windows Phone. Yeah it sucks that there are no viral apps like Periscope, and few viral games, but the local apps are a total necessity for most people.
    08-16-2015 06:26 AM
  7. Axeelant's Avatar
    I can say i'm quite an app freak myself. but still i can find anything i need and really use in the windows store. Ok true, i don't use snapchat, but we have everything else we need to make our life easier. For missing bank apps, why not just use a KDP (or other) certificate and use the website, or mobile site? It worked flawlessly for me, but since the WP10, i never tried to import the certificate, can some1 confirm it would work in Edge?

    Most of my friends are now actually considering a windows phone over android (not apple fans because iphone duuuhh :D), but only now as they see the advantages with Win10 on PC, the compatibility, connectivity and everything being very simmilarr in both OS versions. One actually said he is just waiting for Clash of clans, and that's actually coming now :) With astoria it will get even better. And we can all agree that android phones are RAM hungry, start to get slow very fast, and they force u to change the phone after 2 years, because you will no longer get updates. MS updates even older, low-end devices, which tells a lot.
    08-16-2015 07:35 AM
  8. Loco5150's Avatar
    Yes there is, and it is VERY big.... Take it from a user that had about 10 WP devices, bought about 250 apps and hated Android after having SGS for a month, and now moved to Android... I just got frustrated with Microsoft's poor performance with WP and I think they lost the game by their own doing.

    the app gap IS HUGE and you shouldnt only think about Snapchat (which I dont use)or some big app like that, for example tasks apps that sync with O365, in WP I have like 2 choises that both have major problems.

    You can put any fonction that some user might prefer and WP has only limited choices. Well excluding Weather and Calendar apps, those are probably covered.

    Rydy Huyn is single handedly keeping WP where it is today. He should go to Android and make as good apps there, Im sure he could be rich. Although Im 100% sure MS pays him A LOT OF $$$$$ under the table for he's work in WP. You see MS is between a rock and hard place here, they cant start making the apps themselves, not one of the big companies would make apps anymore to WP. Everyone would just say **** it, they will do it if they really want it. Rudy is a way around that for MS, so Im sure they pay decent money for him to support. Still, Looking how many users and downloads Google Store has, I cant help to think how much money he could do there.

    Ive been meaning to write a comprehensive report of moving to Android, but been too busy lately. I think I need to do it soon. I owe it to my friends here at WC.
    08-16-2015 07:53 AM
  9. DavidinCT's Avatar
    If you come from an Apple world, or even a Android world, this is all you know, you NEED apps. It's been proven by polls that people WANT apps, browsing the web on a mobile device is not the best way to deal with stuff and can be very clunky. It's one of the most important things in a modern smartphone. And LOCAL apps are just as important as the big apps.

    Windows Phone suffers two fold here, There is a lack or App gap, if you want local apps, the question is WHAT local apps because I don't think I have seen any (your local stores, radio stations, TV stations etc).

    The other side if it, just because Windows Phone gets an app, does not mean it will be EVER updated. This is VERY common on Windows phone. Crap look at the ebay app, I am sure a LOT of us have this app on their phone, did you know you cant deal with, make or manage "best offers" on Windows Phone ? This was one of the first apps for WP and still cant even do all of eBay's basic tasks. This is just one example.

    I tried one time to convert my wife from an iPhone to Windows Phone, said try it for the 14 days, if you hate it, return it and I will buy you an iPhone. So, she tried it, day by day she didn't like it, It was not the OS, she did like that, it was 100% the apps. She showed me 25 apps, and compared them to the iPhone's version and no question the WP apps were lacking, BIG TIME basic features were not even available on the Windows Phone version. I saw this first hand, she pointed out feature by feature (something I asked her to show me was a "why"), I told her to return the Windows Phone and I did get her an iPhone.

    The biggest problem with Windows Phone is a catch 22 thing. Windows Phone cant get the apps because it does not have the market share but, it can't get the market share because it does not have the apps.

    Microsoft's answer to this is Universal Applications and Android apps because everything else they have tried has failed.

    I really hope it works. I love Windows Phone but, my common term for it is, Waiting...Waiting for a update, Waiting for a app, Waiting for a smartwatch with native support, waiting for XX hardware.... and STILL waiting...

    It's getting really old after owning a WP device from WP7....

    Continuum can be that feature, if it's done right.
    The more I think about this feature on a WP device, I question it's usability. Sure if you own a big business and NEED to have a mobile office, sure this might work for you but, MOST of the phone users don't NEED this type of feature.

    It might be of those things you use a few times and never touch again, again, all depends if it's done right.

    Android tried something like this a few years ago, it was not cheap but, it failed (a laptop frame for a Moto phone that gave a desktop app) but, this WAS Android and not Windows, so it could be the reason but, there is a lot of questions with this feature.
    libra89 likes this.
    08-16-2015 09:39 AM
  10. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    Yes. Amazon's MP3 service is missing. Official Google apps are missing. Apps that require Google Play Services will not work with Windows 10. I'm not sure if that means that they cannot be reworked through project Astoria, but it does mean that it will require more work to get them to run. There are a lot of apps that require Google Play Services. And these aren't necessarily Google apps either.

    Right now, the only thing I want from Android is a Google Play Music client that allows me to take advantage of the radio feature. Right now, it isn't possible because these apps think that I need to be upgraded to the premium service. That is how things used to be. Now, you can use the radio feature of GPMAA without GPMAA. These third party clients on Windows Phone do not realize this.

    An official SoundCloud would be nice too. I've tried other SoundCloud clients; either I can't like a song, or I can't upload, or it doesn't cache. Marking a song as a favorite and liking that song are two different things. YouTube clients on Windows Phone do not give recommendations. The few that do are web wrappers, but the real YouTube clients do not give recommendations. I use recommendations, I don't use subscriptions.

    Speaking of web wrappers, there are a lot of them on Windows Phone. A lot of HTML 5 apps.

    The only third party client I actually like on Windows Phone, is Jango Player. It downloads tracks, which is something that the official Jango client does not do. It pulls it straight out of the cache and downloads it to your Music directory.

    So there is an app gap. But it is not what people think it is. It is the fact that third party clients do not support everything. That is not the developers fault. They can only access whatever API are available. That is because these services are broken for other platforms, right out of the gate. And people find themselves going back to Android or IOS, or using the web site. Disney Expedition is a good example of this. Disney will not release their official vacation app to Windows Phone, so we get like, half of the functionality of the Android app, in Disney Expedition.
    08-16-2015 09:41 AM
  11. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    And I think there is good amount of people who would go with WP knowing there is not as big gap as they might think.
    Two different sides of the same coin.
    08-16-2015 09:51 AM
  12. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    How many different times are we going to revisit this topic. Its like it is always presented in a different way, but the end result is the same.

    There is an app gap. There always has, and there probably always will be.

    Some of the blame should be laid at Microsoft because they aren't developing services that are unique to Windows Phone that would compel anyone to come over. The other part of the blame, is that the developers that are making the next great thing, aren't developing for Windows Phone. Finally, developers that are writing for Windows Phone, have products and services that no one knows anything about. MixRadio is a good example of this. MixRadio and Here were actually the reason I chose Windows Phone.

    But this goes back farther than mobile. Google was the primary driver in the early days before smartphones, with their great services on the web. Microsoft was not doing anything interesting online in those days.

    Somehow, I think that Microsoft still does not get it. How is it going to differentiate itself from other platforms? Where is the innovation? Loyalists know that OneDrive and Office Web Apps is better than Google Drive and Google Docs. But everyone else looks at this like, "well, Microsoft is simply offering their own product because of the popularity of what Google offers". As far as they know the Google product came first. And Universal Apps is going to be the same thing. People are going to say, "well of course Microsoft would want Andriod and IOS apps to run on Windows Phone". And you can't blame them.

    Microsoft has some really great ideas. Always has. But those ideas never gain any traction. The only game changer this go around is Continuum and Virtual Reality. I don't even know if people are excited about Windows Hello. This would be a game changer for Mac OS X. Somehow they are going to have to find a way to get people excited about what they're doing. That hasn't happened since the Surface.
    theefman likes this.
    08-16-2015 10:53 AM
  13. Gagan997's Avatar
    There are lots of Missing features in most of app Some Problems i am Sharing ,
    1) Starting from Watsapp , i feel frustrated when i have to erase few msgs from any chat as there is no option to select multiple msgs and erase them at once, we have to erase one by one which is so irritating
    2) Retrica , if you know about this app , it is not available in windows phone i am waiting from such a long time
    3) there are lot of fake apps on windows store which are actually not available officialy but are fake .
    4)Sound cloud is not available officially but there are lot of fake apps
    5) official Chrome app isnot there , and internet Explorer is pathetic ( Thanks to Opera and UC ) also Gmail app is also not there.
    6) Most of apps donot have transparent tiles , so i dont like to pin those apps to START, example Microsoft's own Camera App , Viber , Dominos , Freecharge , Mobikwik , ets mostly used in india for online recharges and payments
    7) Microsoft's Store is too slow while on mobile network ( Except sometime its fast but most of times it is not working properly)
    8) Watsapp and Viber are allowed to run in background but sometime i use to get notification after such a long time and sometime i donot get any notification and only come to know that someone dropped me a msg when i actually open those app's.
    9) While Using Faceboook, If you want to add location in a Post , you will Try again and again and finally either will be posting from any browser or will not add location It's such a crap.

    There may be many more reasons but still i love Windows phone in hope that may be some day they will improve this
    Pirate Arr likes this.
    08-16-2015 11:12 AM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    With astoria it will get even better. And we can all agree that android phones are RAM hungry, start to get slow very fast, and they force u to change the phone after 2 years, because you will no longer get updates. MS updates even older, low-end devices, which tells a lot.
    Be careful with your assumptions about Astoria. A WP device that can run Android apps will have the exact same issues as an Android phone. It will definitely be even more RAM hungry.
    Whatever issues you perceive Android to have, Astoria will bring those to WP too.
    Laura Knotek, libra89 and Axeelant like this.
    08-16-2015 12:59 PM
  15. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    Be careful with your assumptions about Astoria. A WP device that can run Android apps will have the exact same issues as an Android phone. It will definitely be even more RAM hungry.
    Whatever issues you perceive Android to have, Astoria will bring those to WP too.
    What are you basing this assertion on?
    08-16-2015 01:04 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    What are you basing this assertion on?
    For beginners, the fact that it's not possible for WP to control what apps can run in the background, how often, and when, while at the same time being compatible with Android's quasi free-for-all multitasking model. No computing system can simultaneously have/support both.
    There are many such examples.
    The differences between WP and Android aren't so much a result of one group of engineers somehow being more competent than the other. They are the result of having different power/security/reliability goals, being achieved through deliberately different design choices and the consequences thereof.
    These are just basic laws of software engineering.
    08-16-2015 01:56 PM
  17. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    I say lets not confuse personal satisfaction with the reality of the situation. Having switched to a cheap Android, waiting for a new WP flagship, I have to say that this idea that an app gap doesn't exist is ridiculous. Forget about the number of apps available vs not available. This also includes the number of features in the Android and iOS versions of apps (my wife has an IPhone 5c) vs WP is astounding.
    theefman and natakur like this.
    08-16-2015 01:59 PM
  18. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    For beginners, the fact that it's not possible for WP to control what apps can run in the background, how often, and when, while at the same time being compatible with Android's quasi free-for-all multitasking model. No computing system can simultaneously have/support both.
    There are many such examples.
    The differences between WP and Android aren't so much a result of one group of engineers somehow being more competent than the other. They are the result of having different power/security/reliability goals, being achieved through deliberately different design choices and the consequences thereof.
    These are just basic laws of software engineering.
    Oversimplification. Apps on Windows Phone would not behave the way that they do on Android. You're looking at this as though the port would be an exact duplication of what is occurring on Android. That would rarely be the case. Apps can be reworked to take advantage of what Windows Phone has to offer. So you're saying that the settings in Battery Sense do not control what runs in the background?
    08-16-2015 02:22 PM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    You're looking at this as though the port would be an exact duplication of what is occurring on Android. That would rarely be the case.
    Functionally, they are an exact duplication. That's the only part that matters, and that's already been proven by Astoria.
    Oversimplification. Apps on Windows Phone would not behave the way that they do on Android.
    Wherever you got that from, you should probably stop using them as a source. With few exceptions, Astoria creates behaviorally identical ports.

    So you're saying that the settings in Battery Sense do not control what runs in the background?
    I don't know what Battery Sense will or will not control. I do know it will not control all aspects of ported app's background activities. Admittedly that isn't relevant for all apps. It will be relevant for some
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-16-2015 02:40 PM
  20. libra89's Avatar
    Yes. Amazon's MP3 service is missing. Official Google apps are missing. Apps that require Google Play Services will not work with Windows 10. I'm not sure if that means that they cannot be reworked through project Astoria, but it does mean that it will require more work to get them to run. There are a lot of apps that require Google Play Services. And these aren't necessarily Google apps either.

    Right now, the only thing I want from Android is a Google Play Music client that allows me to take advantage of the radio feature. Right now, it isn't possible because these apps think that I need to be upgraded to the premium service. That is how things used to be. Now, you can use the radio feature of GPMAA without GPMAA. These third party clients on Windows Phone do not realize this.
    Great points in everything that you said. I think it's very important to remember that Google apps are missing because Google chose to do that! They intentionally did it, so it's not fair to say that those are missing as a compliant if this very company knows exactly what they are doing. It shouldn't be odd that Google only has like one app in the Windows Store.

    That's kind of like saying Snapchat is not on WP so it's a problem. Rudy made an third party app for Snapchat but Snapchat purposely chose to no longer be on WP all by themselves.
    08-16-2015 02:45 PM
  21. Christopher Kendalls's Avatar
    Functionally, they are an exact duplication. That's the only part that matters, and that's already been proven by Astoria.

    Wherever you got that from, you should probably stop using them as a source. With few exceptions, Astoria creates behaviorally identical ports.



    I don't know what Battery Sense will or will not control. I do know it will not control all aspects of ported app's background activities. Admittedly that isn't relevant for all apps. It will be relevant for some
    You're hung up on Project Astoria, but you're missing the bigger picture. No one wants, nor is expecting, a one for one port of apps to Windows Phone. The same apps, on Android and IOS, are different. The same services. So you're telling me that those same apps that work on two different platforms that take advantage of the best of each platform cannot be reworked for Windows Phone?

    My source is Microsoft's own papers on how background tasks on Windows Phone works. It is tied down, to 20 applications. But, since applications do not run forever in the background, all of your applications will run in the background at some point. That is all that we really want. You want apps to be available in the background, whenever, and that is not a necessity that is a preference that you have. No one needs to have every single app they open up run in the background consuming resources.

    Also, how is it that you do not know what battery saver will or will not control. It is documented on Microsoft's website. I'm not sure what you're doing with your phone, but I set all of the apps that can work in the background, to work in the background. I get an error message that the app will not work, because I have 19 other apps set to work in the background. I ignore the message. It works anyway. Now, I can't have more than the maximum amount of apps running in the background at the same time, but it does work. I have 35 apps set to run in the background through battery saver. When I go to "show usage from last 24 hours" only 18 apps are shown.

    Even Windows Central has articles on the subject. Check out Windows Phone 8.1?s Battery Power Sense will bring fine-grain control over apps | Windows Central and this link Background tasks in Windows Phone 8.1 can run even with Battery saver on, user can override limit of 20 tasks. | NPU which states that even with the 20 task limit, you can exceed it in Windows Phone 8.1

    If an Android phone with less than a 1 GB of RAM tries to run more than 20 tasks at once, hell, even more than 5 at once, depending on how memory intensive those apps are in RAM the phone either locks up, the device overheats, or the device restarts. Windows Phone perform better on 512 MB, but all of the new devices that are on the market now designed to be compatible with Windows 10 have a minimum of 1 GB of RAM.
    08-16-2015 03:45 PM
  22. Stephen Townsley's Avatar
    A mobile WP app for my bank would be good, my local transit system, local buses, my local taxi company an nfc wallet that worked and good bitcoin clients would be a start.

    Add to that the BBC weather app in the UK and a few other things....
    Daniel Frankovitch likes this.
    08-16-2015 04:44 PM
  23. Loco5150's Avatar
    The poor market share really is Microsofts own fault at this point. Looking where WP is in functionality after 5? years, its a joke...

    When you are playing catch up, its double speed or you wont catch anyone. What MS has done, is gone 2 steps forward and one back. Many times. Too many times. This has lost them the game, and i dont believe they can bounce back anymore.

    When Nokia got on board, Microsoft should have been able to start moving super fast with the OS. The momentum was there, but microsoft couldnt do really big steps. Sure, more tiles nice, but they should have had more tiles to begin with.

    Poor management killed WP. I think its lights out for it now... Apps it will never get thats for sure.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    theefman and Pirate Arr like this.
    08-16-2015 05:46 PM
  24. GMC262's Avatar
    Microsoft has made missteps but I don't think much could have overcome Apple's name cache; in the mobile space, they've been "the coolest guy in the room" for a while. That seems to have waned somewhat with other phone mfrs now offering hardware that exceeds the specs of current iPhones-but still, Apple is the experience by which the others are measured.
    08-16-2015 08:01 PM
  25. TheJackah's Avatar
    With the improved Windows Dev centre and Windows 10 there will be a lot more apps coming to Windows Phone for sure.

    Posted via the Windows Central App
    natakur likes this.
    08-16-2015 09:20 PM
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