Can Microsoft be serious about Enterprise with out Verizon?

[sprtfan]

I've heard about how Microsoft is going to target Enterprise with their Windows 10 mobile phones but can they really do this with out offering a phone that works on Verizon? Getting a company to switch to a different phone might be hard enough to do but if they'd have to change providers as well I can see it becoming almost impossible. I really don't know anything about this and is why I'm asking. Maybe this is not much of a hurdle but it seems like it would be a pretty significant one to me. So, can Microsoft make a push into Enterprise with Windows 10 mobile with out supporting Verizon?

 

[Sam Not Spam]

Is it possible that Verizon simply doesn't want to support them?

There's kind of a lack of real competition between carriers. Ideally, we could buy a phone and use it on any network, forcing all of them to fight on pricing, service, etc. Dual-SIM phones let you split up services between two carriers (data on one, voice/text on another). Instead, its kind of a lock-in... buy a phone and it'll work on 1 major (AT&T or Verizon) and 1 not-as-big (T-Mobile or Sprint).

 

[dkediger]

It kind of depends on what supporting Verizon means:

• Having Verizon as a retail outlet for devices;
• Selling "unlocked" CDMA certified/Verizon capable devices directly through the Microsoft Store.

If they want to get any traction in the US, they will need at least the second. They can get by without having Verizon as a retail outlet - most businesses order/activate/upgrade their equipment themselves through carrier online portals without ever encountering a human rep anyway. Getting them from a different portal is just that. As long as the phones works on the network - which is the critical factor.

Too many places in the US where one carrier or the other has a dominant position in coverage to think that a single carrier (ATT) or a carrier and half (ATT/TMo) can be a winning combination.

 

[RumoredNow]

Ima copy over a post from the Jade Primo forum that sheds light on this topic. It is from someone who has, by all reports, usually had good insight into how Verizon thinks and works. User's name is Mr. MacPhisto.

It's a Snapdragon 808, so all the bands are there unless they are locked. The 950 and the 950XL have CDMA radios since ALL 808 and 810 processors do, but they've been locked by the firmware due to issues between Verizon and Microsoft.

The way it works with Verizon is that after an independent third party has verified an unlocked phone, Verizon must allow it on their network. That's the deal they made with the FCC.

The primary questions surrounding the Jade Primo are FCC licensing and who pays for the third party review. Acer would be wise to do this since it would allow them to sell a low cost, unlocked phone that will work on all US carriers.

The Jade Primo is going on sale in Europe for 400 Euros with keyboard, mouse, and dock. That's the equivalent of $428. When we account for the VAT in Europe, the price comes to around $360. So it's very possible we could see an unlocked Acer Jade Primo for under $400 USD with keyboard, mouse, and dock packaged.

Verizon won't sell the Jade Primo. Samsung and LG are working on Windows 10 phones that may debut in March. Haven't heard much on HTC and Motorola is considering doing a Windows version of the Droid Turbo 2. Any Verizon plans for Windows 10 are centered around March. There may be an Intel based phone in the works in an attempt to compete with the rumored Surface phone. Verizon believes this has been guaranteed as an exclusive to AT&T and is working with Lenovo/Motorola to try to make an alternative - so that may come instead of a Windows Turbo 2.

Everything is up in the air. Verizon does intend to carry Windows 10 products in tablet and phone form. They feel there is a future there. But just HOW they'll do it is not so firm inside the company right now. They weren't even given an option on the 950 because of how long they took to get the 735 to market. Microsoft also pulled them as a vendor for the Surface 3 LTE. It'll work on their network, but they were removed as a reseller. This all goes back to their lackluster handling of Microsoft products and poor support of Windows phones.

From what I've heard from my Verizon source, Verizon is locked out by Microsoft for a set period. They may give them another shot early next year - and they COULD get the 950 or 950XL with CDMA at that time, but they were not going to be part of the launch.

I think the opening for Verizon with Microsoft will come when Surface 4 launches, but they need to show some support for Windows 10 before Microsoft will bring the Surface line to Verizon. And Verizon, a carrier focused on business customers, desperately wants to sell Surface.

I do know they are very concerned about a Surface phone going to AT&T. Have no idea if that phone exists or if it would go exclusive to AT&T. MS would be smart to listen to Verizon offers if the phone is real. The Surface lineup is something they can use to get leverage with carriers. Response on Verizon to the iPad Pro at launch was WAY below expectations. They feel Surface has a lot more business cred.

 

[sprtfan]

Thanks, lots of great info there.

 

[theefman]

Ima copy over a post from the Jade Primo forum that sheds light on this topic. It is from someone who has, by all reports, usually had good insight into how Verizon thinks and works. User's name is Mr. MacPhisto.

I find it hard to believe the information from the post you quoted when the reality of buying a WP or Windows device in a Verizon store has been consistently poor for years.

 

[RumoredNow]

I find it hard to believe the information from the post you quoted when the reality of buying a WP or Windows device in a Verizon store has been consistently poor for years.

I'm just copying it over... If it has any basis in reality it shows Vzw recognizes Microsoft helps them service Enterprise better than iOS or Android.

 

[elindalyne]

So basically, anyone who mucked with WP before(TMo, Sprint, VZW) got put in the corner.

Everything in that copypasta makes sense. Businesses are eating up the Surface. If VZW can't carry that they'll lose a lot of their business accounts.

 

[RumoredNow]

So basically, anyone who mucked with WP before(TMo, Sprint, VZW) got put in the corner.

A frequent poster on these forums has a theory: for 950/XL carriers were asked not to sit on updates and also to allow Microsoft greater leeway in updating core apps/portions of the OS directly.

Only AT&T said OK and that is why today looks like it does for availability of these phones in the US.

I can see some semblance of reality in that.

 

[elindalyne]

And with that in mind, if the Surface 4 or Panos Phone end up being huge, VZW will have no choice but to allow Microsoft more leeway with W10M.

Even without Verizon...It just feels like the market is beginning to shift. Watch Europe go bananas over the phones and the marketshare rise again.

 

[dkediger]

I'm just copying it over... If it has any basis in reality it shows Vzw recognizes Microsoft helps them service Enterprise better than iOS or Android.

I used this as a velvet fist with our Verizon rep just last week. He did a pre-holiday drop in "How Ya Doing?" stop and noticed one our Surface setups. He commented that they "Should be able to get those soon so we can really be mobile....yada, yada." And I waved my Icon at him and told him until they started taking the phones seriously, that "we were quite fine, thank you." Also dropped the hint that we were considering just killing our business plan partly because several users have asked for access to other devices.

ATT isn't really a good carrier choice for us - neither is TMo - but the implication as to why is clear. We're also not likely at all to consider an LTE enabled tablet. But I'm not afraid to make a pointed comment when its warranted and the opportunity presents.

 

[Sam Not Spam]

A frequent poster on these forums has a theory: for 950/XL carriers were asked not to sit on updates and also to allow Microsoft greater leeway in updating core apps/portions of the OS directly.

Only AT&T said OK and that is why today looks like it does for availability of these phones in the US.

I can see some semblance of reality in that.

As I recall, that's the reason AT&T had and kept the iPhone exclusive at launch and for quite some time after... they were the only ones who would let Apple do things they way they wanted to. I *could* see that happening here, but honestly? Its not like Microsoft is operating from a position of strength here. I've got an old Surface and love it, but I can always use my phone's hotspot if I need mobile internet... built in LTE or whatever would be nice, but its not the only option. Besides, anywhere I can't use my phone as a hotspot I likely won't be able to the build in connection, either.

Honestly, Apple had control, Microsoft is trying to get it (which is why things are less integrated than in 8.1 and 10 than 7 and 8), and even Google is trying to get more moved out of the OS and into the parts they control... I just wish Google had pushed for a more Apple-like deal when they introduced Android instead of making it so OEM and carrier friendly... ideally they could've helped make Apple's exception into the status quo, benefitting all platforms.

 

[elindalyne]

They are sort of in a position of power and control with the Surface line though. LTE enabled Surfaces are huge among business right now. If they can't sell those, they'll start losing out on more and more sales.