The Windows 10 April 2018 update has arrived! Get the new Dell XPS 15, starting at $999.99
01-28-2016 09:23 AM
115 12345
tools
  1. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    I don't use Facebook, but everything else you've stated is similar here in the US. I see ads for Surface all the time, especially during NFL games. I've never seen an ad for the 950 from AT&T, which is the exclusive carrier to offer it. AT&T advertises iPhones and Samsung Galaxy frequently. I've even seen AT&T ads for LG and HTC devices.
    I can't remember seeing many ads for Windows Phone in general. It comes off as Microsoft having no passion for them, like they are merely a commodity that they sell and nothing more.
    Andrew Gordon and xandros9 like this.
    12-21-2015 09:23 AM
  2. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    Apps are by far the biggest issue for Windows Phone. It still remains a crippling point for many adopters to the platform. Some people can live without certain apps but many get tired of being left out. You can forgive a phone or OS but lack of apps that your friends have or the ability to try out an app is what is killing the ecosystem more than anything else. Being a 'maybe' for developers will continue to kill WP.

    This is where MS rests it's hopes on universal apps. A big question mark. It also hopes to attract iOS developers with it's 'easy' porting system. Let's see what happens.
    As I've said before on these forums, we may be able to get away without certain apps but the world in general is getting locked down to Android and iOS. You see this when you go to something simple like print out a photo at your local Walmart from your phone and are suddenly confronted with having to download an app before it will let you even do anything. There may be alternative ways of doing things, but the idea of having a Smartphone is all about convenience and the moment they come across a show stopper like that they'll be looking to jump ship, if they haven't already.
    N_LaRUE, libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    12-21-2015 09:29 AM
  3. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I can't remember seeing many ads for Windows Phone in general. It comes off as Microsoft having no passion for them, like they are merely a commodity that they sell and nothing more.
    I saw lots of ads when Nokia was promoting their phones. I even saw a few ads after MS bought Nokia. Now... crickets chirping
    12-21-2015 09:35 AM
  4. libra89's Avatar
    I saw lots of ads when Nokia was promoting their phones. I even saw a few ads after MS bought Nokia. Now... crickets chirping
    The last ad I have seen on tv for phones was the 635 and that was to say that it was available on Amazon. That was more than a year ago though.
    12-21-2015 09:43 AM
  5. Geodude074's Avatar
    As someone who is not a fanboy of Windows phones, here is my general consumer viewpoint of why I don't like Windows phones.

    - The home screen is a confusing, cluttered mess of squares. Compare it to iOS - iPhones look like they're made for preschoolers, the home screen is so simple and straightforward that anyone can use it. Android is similar, but lets you add widgets. Windows mobile though? Weird different sized square tiles everywhere. You have to get used to it the first couple times you use it, but most people don't want to bother with that learning curve.
    - Plasticky builds for premium prices. Why would your average consumer pay $650 for a plastic 950XL when they can pay $650 for a premium metal iPhone?
    - No apps. This is the deal breaker.

    Now, I know what many of you are going to say. "I love Live tiles! Windows Mobile UI is so elegant and easy to use!" Yes that may be true to you because you're a fanboy, but to the general consumer, that is not the case. The majority of consumers who use Windows Phones the first time find it confusing as heck. The first time I used Windows Phones, I didn't know how to resize and snap tiles around. Nobody wants to go through a tutorial on how to use the start screen.
    12-21-2015 10:18 AM
  6. libra89's Avatar
    Now, I know what many of you are going to say. "I love Live tiles! Windows Mobile UI is so elegant and easy to use!" Yes that may be true to you because you're a fanboy, but to the general consumer, that is not the case. The majority of consumers who use Windows Phones the first time find it confusing as heck. The first time I used Windows Phones, I didn't know how to resize and snap tiles around. Nobody wants to go through a tutorial on how to use the start screen.
    I would think that with a new OS in general, you'll have to learn how to use it. My mom used Windows Phone and that was a learning curve, but so was Android for her. I doubt anyone goes in and instantly knows how to use it off the bat. It's a fair point, but it isn't one that only goes for Windows Phone/Mobile.

    She didn't know what a widget was, or even how it works. Never mind the things that randomly pop up for her that have her considering if she should install something or not. For level of ease to learn/figure out, iOS surely wins, as you said.
    12-21-2015 10:39 AM
  7. cracgor's Avatar
    I think the main point about live tiles and user interface is that they are a mess and cluttered. When Windows 7 introduced them, they were not messy. They were single color and flipped every one in 5 tiles maybe. Now even with the transparency, live tiles look worse than ever. The number of tiles on the screen, the way they block your background picture, and how they flip around out of sync. I do not like live tiles in their progressive implementation. I really like the windows phone interface, but I have to struggle to make it look nice. I end up selecting live tiles on the home screen that are transparent at the top so that I can see the background image I select--which means I put the tiles with the most information I want a page down defeating the purpose of live tiles. Even in this bragging area (http://forums.windowscentral.com/mic...l/395349-5.htm) for home screens, I find almost all truly ugly. For another example on my Android phone, I just have at most two rows of icons on any screen, leaving most of my background completely unobstructed.
    Laura Knotek, Geodude074 and nmco9 like this.
    12-21-2015 10:59 AM
  8. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    Now, I know what many of you are going to say. "I love Live tiles! Windows Mobile UI is so elegant and easy to use!" Yes that may be true to you because you're a fanboy, but to the general consumer, that is not the case. The majority of consumers who use Windows Phones the first time find it confusing as heck. The first time I used Windows Phones, I didn't know how to resize and snap tiles around. Nobody wants to go through a tutorial on how to use the start screen.
    You're right I am going to disagree However I don't consider myself a Windows Fanboy either as I came relatively late compared with most in here and I certainly do not think it's without its faults. Tiles certainly aren't any more difficult to use than Android Widgets. Once someone is shown how to add and resize tiles, it's second nature, I mean I can't see how they could've made that any easier.

    Are Tiles Perfect? Maybe not, but to me, they give some of the functionality of a widget with the cleaner look of iOS. As to the home screen being a cluttered mess, that is up to the user. You can layout your tiles to mimic a 'grid' of icons or have dissimilar sized ones like widgets to match the priority of certain apps.

    I am not of the opinion that the Tiles themselves are the cause of Windows Phones's unpopularity. It's the apps, plain and simple.
    12-21-2015 11:00 AM
  9. colinkiama's Avatar
    The start screen can really put people off although with windows 10, it looks soooo nice 😍
    mary beth hale likes this.
    12-21-2015 08:05 PM
  10. tgp's Avatar
    I would think that with a new OS in general, you'll have to learn how to use it. My mom used Windows Phone and that was a learning curve, but so was Android for her. I doubt anyone goes in and instantly knows how to use it off the bat. It's a fair point, but it isn't one that only goes for Windows Phone/Mobile.

    She didn't know what a widget was, or even how it works. Never mind the things that randomly pop up for her that have her considering if she should install something or not. For level of ease to learn/figure out, iOS surely wins, as you said.
    I think the familiarity edge goes to iOS and Android. Their icons look like Windows (desktop), which virtually everybody is familiar with. WP's home screen of tiles looks like the start screen on Windows 8/8.1, which Microsoft deprecated in Windows 10.
    Laura Knotek, colinkiama and nmco9 like this.
    12-21-2015 08:24 PM
  11. odin09's Avatar
    The first time I picked up a windows phone I had it up and running instantly. I was moving things, downloading and changing settings. Everything was very intuitive, for me. When I tried to set up an iPhone I struggled with the settings and even had to call iPhone friends to ask how to do things. For me... Windows phone was much easier. I also love the tiles!
    12-21-2015 08:54 PM
  12. sumanthsuresh's Avatar
    You're right I am going to disagree However I don't consider myself a Windows Fanboy either as I came relatively late compared with most in here and I certainly do not think it's without its faults. Tiles certainly aren't any more difficult to use than Android Widgets. Once someone is shown how to add and resize tiles, it's second nature, I mean I can't see how they could've made that any easier.

    Are Tiles Perfect? Maybe not, but to me, they give some of the functionality of a widget with the cleaner look of iOS. As to the home screen being a cluttered mess, that is up to the user. You can layout your tiles to mimic a 'grid' of icons or have dissimilar sized ones like widgets to match the priority of certain apps.

    I am not of the opinion that the Tiles themselves are the cause of Windows Phones's unpopularity. It's the apps, plain and simple.
    Apps are there just some basic one. Works fine for me. People need a lot more fancy and there is always comparison to iOS and android
    12-21-2015 09:36 PM
  13. gcyoung's Avatar
    Here in the UK I've not seen a single ad for the L950 or L950XL on TV or billboards. Odd for new phones and this close to Xmas. I see the occasional ad in my Facebook feed but I don't really see that as advertising.

    The Surface on the other hand I see ads for all the time.

    It does make you wonder.
    Nadella was pretty clear about the 950 being for Windows Phone enthusiasts, so that's a pretty small market, that will already know the phones are released. I also wonder if they didn't know that it would be a rather rocky launch, and decided not to promote the new phones and OS until the bugs had been worked out. Not surprised to see no promotion.
    12-22-2015 09:52 AM
  14. deadonthefloor's Avatar
    Since every post here has focused on the consumer end, I'll offer my take from the supply side.

    The reason Windows Phone never took off in any meaningful way is the mismanagement by MS.

    1. OEMS: Microsoft lost the OEM market before they even began their WP journey by establishing rigid hardware requirements and forbade them from altering the look and feel. The positioning from MS at the time is "We" want "Our" consumers to have a consistent hardware experience across the ecosystem. By tying the OEMs' hands on any sort of differentiation, it severely limited the appeal. What OEM want's to be just another me a

    2. Carriers: Since many carriers are also landline operators, there is much tension there, as MS have slowly been eating away at those value added profits by providing PBX integration to Exchange and then the ultimate insult, buying Skype. Carriers have no love for MS.

    3. Software developers: By insisting (initially) that all Windows phone apps had to be sandboxed in a little silverlight container meant many developers who could've potentially developed an app, did not do so due to the steep learning curve. On top of that, the limitations of the OS / Silverlight layer meant many apps simply were not possible.

    4. Stupid pivots: not the UI, but the radical shifts that occur with each re-imagining of what Windows on the phone should be. They went from a well thought out, simplistic design, to Continuum. Each shift in the roadmap meant much rework to fit in the new runtime/ecosystem. To the point that many apps in the Windows Phone store today are still their original WP7 Silverlight apps. Silverlight -> Windows Runtime -> UWP (Windows Runtime 2.1).

    5. Bad design decisions: The biggest failure in this journey was having TPM as optional in WP7 and mandatory in WP8. This left the consumer with a bad taste as their devices were immediately cut from the WP8 upgrade path, in clear violation of the promise mandated by MS when WP7 launched that "Our devices will have supported upgrade path for 18 months".


    When MS stack the deck against themselves like this, failure is imminent. So they backpedal with the OEMs and allow them to recycle their Android designs, which in turn meant much work for the UX team to support new screen ratios. Now, in this iteration, they try to bypass the carrier. Microsoft made the mistake of thinking they were still the 800 lb gorilla in the room, using their clout to get others in line with their vision, rather than collaborating with the different players in the ecosystem to build something that works for everyone.
    cracgor, RumoredNow and N_LaRUE like this.
    12-22-2015 11:13 AM
  15. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    I personally think the whole universal apps and continuum deal is really a way for Microsoft to slowly creep away from the consumer market by shifting focus to more business orientated devices (ie Surface Phone).
    12-22-2015 11:40 AM
  16. cracgor's Avatar
    I personally think the whole universal apps and continuum deal is really a way for Microsoft to slowly creep away from the consumer market by shifting focus to more business orientated devices (ie Surface Phone).
    Or creep away from phones in general. Maybe the future device line isn't even a phone+. I can't say I understand how Continuum really is useful without wireless interaction and no need for additional peripherals.
    anon(6078578) and N_LaRUE like this.
    12-22-2015 03:15 PM
  17. chmun77's Avatar
    Now, I know what many of you are going to say. "I love Live tiles! Windows Mobile UI is so elegant and easy to use!" Yes that may be true to you because you're a fanboy, but to the general consumer, that is not the case. The majority of consumers who use Windows Phones the first time find it confusing as heck. The first time I used Windows Phones, I didn't know how to resize and snap tiles around. Nobody wants to go through a tutorial on how to use the start screen.
    When I showed my friend the windows phone I'm using, his very first reaction is - "what are all those squares? So messy!". I think in order to use windows phone, one has to have to be prepared to use a very different home screen. This is also why MS decided to make the big Start "disappear" for the new Windows 10 desktop OS. People are just to used to the "old and static" icons sad to say.

    Another thing that disappoint me a lot is how slow apps are being updated - the non third party apps to be precised. On my Android, I see such promises by the app developers:



    To make things worse, I see this when I tried to reinstall Tunein:


    Where are the promises on windows phone? I'm seeing Facebook, Messenger, Whatsapp, Flipboard, Instagram, etc all being updated frequently on my Note 4 and iPhone6s+. On the contrary, things are so quiet on the windows phone platform. Is just so demoralizing!
    xandros9 and Laura Knotek like this.
    12-22-2015 07:57 PM
  18. chmun77's Avatar
    I personally think the whole universal apps and continuum deal is really a way for Microsoft to slowly creep away from the consumer market by shifting focus to more business orientated devices (ie Surface Phone).
    That's why they are forcing consumers to pay for using Office on the phone via Continuum starting next April.
    xandros9 likes this.
    12-22-2015 08:04 PM
  19. WinOMG's Avatar
    Because you're only looking at it from a limited perspective. With Android, you can change your home screen to anything you want (make it look like an iPhone or Windows Phone) and you can change your keyboard. You can root your phone and make it so that on phone startup you can show a boot log. You can browse the system files and do anything you want and even change the lock screen or download a new messaging or phone app. You also have a crap load of apps to choose from. I used to think like you did. I was a hardcore WP fanboy. But I decided to give Android a try and well, I am doing a lot more than I used to before. And with iPhones, they have the apps, but they also have simplicity. WP has simplicity, but no apps.
    Last edited by WinOMG; 12-22-2015 at 08:49 PM.
    12-22-2015 08:16 PM
  20. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    In Romania Windows Phone was and is doing fine with both mid and high level phones. This Monday I've bought my Lumia 950 from my operator and the sales person told me that they have the second batch running as the first one was already sold out. I've been also in Germany and Austria and I've seen many people using windows phones
    RumoredNow likes this.
    12-23-2015 01:42 AM
  21. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    That's why they are forcing consumers to pay for using Office on the phone via Continuum starting next April.
    Not to start this whole argument again (there's a whole thread of it) but they never once said that Office on Continuum would be free. They also stated many times that Mobile Office is free where as the desktop version is not. When you're using Continuum you are not mobile are you? That's the distinction.

    Leave it to MS to make it complicated but what else is new?
    Laura Knotek and RumoredNow like this.
    12-23-2015 01:51 AM
  22. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I personally think the whole universal apps and continuum deal is really a way for Microsoft to slowly creep away from the consumer market by shifting focus to more business orientated devices (ie Surface Phone).
    Reality is they should have focused on their stronger side first, the business side. MS has always been strong in business. Having a good business oriented phone probably would have helped them a lot considering BB went bust and they weren't in a position to capitalise.

    Saying that, there's no reason why they couldn't have did both at the same time. Unfortunately their phones were never 'business' enough looking aside from the L925. That new L650 is looking nice, if a bit low spec.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-23-2015 01:54 AM
  23. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Nadella was pretty clear about the 950 being for Windows Phone enthusiasts, so that's a pretty small market, that will already know the phones are released. I also wonder if they didn't know that it would be a rather rocky launch, and decided not to promote the new phones and OS until the bugs had been worked out. Not surprised to see no promotion.
    Isn't that just a bit silly? I mean why make a product and not market the thing? That's kind of like doing the 'build it they will come' mentality. It doesn't work really.

    As for it being the phone for enthusiasts I don't think they achieved that.
    12-23-2015 01:56 AM
  24. Jochie Van der Merwe's Avatar
    As a general consumer, I used iPhone, Android and now Windows Phone. Contrary to your opinion on the learning curves for using the various UI's, I found Android exceedingly tricky. I had to study the manual to learn how to remove empty start screen pages. Then, to complicate things further, behind the start screen there is a whole lot of extra pages loaded with all your apps, many of them bloatware duplicates which can't be removed. Then, on top of that, there are the widgets to figure out.

    On contrast, it was immediately clear to me how to move Windows tiles around, change their sizes or unpin or pin them. To me, the Windows Phone UI really was a piece of cake to figure out compared to the Android UI.

    I will agree that the app gap may be an issue. However, in South Africa, we have most bank apps, movie apps, train and Uber apps, payment apps. The thing about MS that is troubling in our nook of the world is that MS still does not let you buy music tracks and movies from their music store! Really annoying, as this requires a workaround via iTunes on a PC.
    12-24-2015 02:10 AM
  25. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    Isn't that just a bit silly? I mean why make a product and not market the thing? That's kind of like doing the 'build it they will come' mentality. It doesn't work really.

    As for it being the phone for enthusiasts I don't think they achieved that.
    I agree with Paul Thurrot in that they should've been $100 cheaper. This is especially true if they really were meant for the "enthusiasts". No one is saying they should give them away, but saying they are the equal hardware wise of the iPhone etc. still does not justify the price. There is more to pricing than simply hardware, such as desirability etc.
    N_LaRUE and mary beth hale like this.
    12-24-2015 12:51 PM
115 12345

Similar Threads

  1. Where is reminder notification tone seletion on Windows 10 mobile technical preview
    By Seamuzzaman Nahid in forum Windows 10 Mobile Insider Preview
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-02-2016, 02:27 AM
  2. I have forgotten my Windows phone password and I wanna reset it, how can I do it?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-06-2016, 03:52 PM
  3. Why am I not able to hard reset my Lumia 520 I was trying to install Windows 10?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Nokia Lumia 520
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-14-2015, 11:04 AM
  4. Can I still use Windows Live mail 11?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-14-2015, 04:55 AM
  5. How do I install good proxy, like hotspot on my phone 730?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Nokia Lumia 730 & 735
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-14-2015, 12:47 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD