03-30-2016 04:05 AM
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  1. Loco5150's Avatar
    But also on android you needed to buy a separate app for that. It was not build into stock android. So again, it is related to the app gap.

    Anyhow, I have faith they are going to close a good part of this gap, and really think that stock W10, has a lot of features build in.
    Yes, but my point was I bought every app possible I thought might help me, and some even that I didnt need out of support, and still was lacking functionality and was always doing things with workarounds. My device was not smart, or as smart as the other devices seemed to be.

    I still think that if MS would have been able to move faster after Nokia jumped on board, the market share would have been steadily rising, slowly but steadily. This would have also sent a positive signal for developers to get on board, which would have equally helped the rise of the market share. At some point a tipping point would have reached where everyone would have considered it as the real 3rd option.

    What happened instead was Microsoft going back and forward, taking very long time on implementing new needed functionality, depressing the developers and just killing the momentum.

    Good for Nokia, Im really happy they were able to unload the doomed business to MS. That costed Ballmer and Elop their jobs, but I think more should go, or drastically demoted.

    Whoever thought crippled experience of integrated Facebook would be enough, or that Facebook would be ok on Microsoft changing their user experience as they pleased and removing adds where they make their money, should also go! The whole team who said wow, this is a great idea, should go! These people didnt think it through, MS wasted years on that, WP users were left with 2 subpar Facebook experiences for ages, the crippled integrated and the HORRIBLE app. It was a joke, do you guys remember that app? Hahahahhahahaha, seriously, the team must have been high. Many problems like that interfered with the main objective and caused delays as things were started from the beginning opposed to keep moving forward to reach the objective.

    It was a wasted opportunity. We saw the hope when Nokia got on board and the direction was good at that point. Everyone makes mistakes on business, Microsoft made a huge mistake with WP, Im sure the books will tell the story later.

    I wouldnt be surprised that when Nokia went exclusively to WP, the deal was already put in place, you will take our person as CEO, we work together with so and so resources and after we will buy the business from you on price according to sales. I dont think this type of arrangement would be legal? But it would be a great move by Nokia, consider how the whole business has changed. Even if this fantasy scenario is not true, the sale of the business was still AMAZING move by Nokia.

    How Microsoft has progressed with WP in the past 5!!! years its a joke, it really is. I guess the company is "little" lost.
    Ian_Superfly likes this.
    01-24-2016 09:20 AM
  2. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    I suggest that on their deal Nokia took Microsoft forcefully and not even payed for dinner. The main points where that I know what you are saying, but actually doom and gloom has been right since. It looks worse to WP now than it did 2 years ago. Even less users, more time gone and money spent. I was a believer also year or so ago, but not anymore.

    Fanboys are fanboys, facts are facts and business is business..
    I love how people are fanboys because they are not forum psychics predicting Microsoft doom
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 01-24-2016 at 10:59 PM. Reason: cleanup on aisle 5
    libra89 and ArtificiallyYours like this.
    01-24-2016 09:57 AM
  3. Loco5150's Avatar
    Double post
    Last edited by Loco5150; 01-24-2016 at 10:22 AM.
    01-24-2016 10:09 AM
  4. Loco5150's Avatar
    I love how people are fanboys because they are not forum psychics predicting Microsoft doom
    No, there you are wrong. Microsoft isnt doomed. they just messed up their chance with Windows Phone, their mobile platform. Is the company doomed? No, I dont think so. But for them to get their OS in to decent amount users, they blew it. If you dont see it, I dont know, are you a fanboy, objective or what?

    Only look at the numbers. Lets forget everything else and look at the numbers. Is this a success? No, I dont think anyone why understands business basics can call it a success.

    Based on numbers Microsoft has little choice here.

    EDIT: Here, take a look at this statistic from IDC in December:
    untitled.png
    Worldwide Smartphone Market Will See the First Single-Digit Growth Year on Record, According to IDC - prUS40664915

    Lets forget the very horrible prediction for Windows Phone as its speculation. The current numbers are also HORRIBLE. Yes, no flagship and not that this or those, but that does not matter, only the numbers matter in business.

    The issue for getting around it, is so much more than just one "killer device", or that "crazy one function people cant live without", making this impossible to achieve. They know this; thus to the topic, they have to kill it.

    And once more, they blew it themselves. The market was difficult sure, but there was the need for 3rd platform. The market share started to rise. there was the chance, but when the rise stopped. Its lights out.
    Lord Method Man likes this.
    01-24-2016 10:19 AM
  5. ajayden's Avatar
    No, there you are wrong. Microsoft isnt doomed. they just messed up their chance with Windows Phone, their mobile platform. Is the company doomed? No, I dont think so. But for them to get their OS in to decent amount users, they blew it. If you dont see it, I dont know, are you a fanboy, objective or what?

    Only look at the numbers. Lets forget everything else and look at the numbers. Is this a success? No, I dont think anyone why understands business basics can call it a success.

    Based on numbers Microsoft has little choice here.

    EDIT: Here, take a look at this statistic from IDC in December:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Untitled.png 
Views:	25 
Size:	62.3 KB 
ID:	121132
    Worldwide Smartphone Market Will See the First Single-Digit Growth Year on Record, According to IDC - prUS40664915

    Lets forget the very horrible prediction for Windows Phone as its speculation. The current numbers are also HORRIBLE. Yes, no flagship and not that this or those, but that does not matter, only the numbers matter in business.

    The issue for getting around it, is so much more than just one "killer device", or that "crazy one function people cant live without", making this impossible to achieve. They know this; thus to the topic, they have to kill it.

    And once more, they blew it themselves. The market was difficult sure, but there was the need for 3rd platform. The market share started to rise. there was the chance, but when the rise stopped. Its lights out.
    We should look back at this post exactly one year from now, just to see if Windows Mobile is around or not. Only time will tell.
    But I am sure Windows Mobile will be around as long as Microsoft is around.
    01-24-2016 10:58 AM
  6. Loco5150's Avatar
    Well see and if it's around in what form. If its just an OS that scales to a smaller screen, but no one actually uses a phone with it, does that mean its still alive.

    Nadella said Windows Phone is not sustainable with market share that is has now. Will the market share change soon? I doubt that very much, which would mean they will kill it.
    01-24-2016 11:43 AM
  7. David B7's Avatar
    We all have our opinions but I think we can agree on one thing. Like my dad would say when I was growing up, it's time (for MS) to pee or get off the pot.
    Loco5150 likes this.
    01-24-2016 12:38 PM
  8. David Steadson's Avatar
    Priority is where their strength lies and their strength lies in the PC/Tablet market.
    Which is exactly what they're doing. What you've missed is they've merged the phone market in with it. WM will succeed if universal apps on PC/Tablet work.

    Another thing I think with win 10 If you do write a good app for windows 10 mobile you can be a big fish in a small pond. Whereas with IOS you just another little fish in a very big pond. But I do hope they do fix the IOS bridge to import apps and get more onboard so everyone stops whining. We all what the problem is so let's fix it.
    The thing is, it's *not* a small pond. Look at the figures below. Over 31 million units in just the last year. That's 31 million currently under-served potential customers!

    No, there you are wrong. Microsoft isnt doomed. they just messed up their chance with Windows Phone, their mobile platform. Is the company doomed? No, I dont think so. But for them to get their OS in to decent amount users, they blew it. If you dont see it, I dont know, are you a fanboy, objective or what?

    Only look at the numbers. Lets forget everything else and look at the numbers. Is this a success? No, I dont think anyone why understands business basics can call it a success.
    I'm an entrepreneur. I've been founding and running my own companies for a couple of decades. Yes, just look at the numbers. Do you know how many units the first iPhone sold? 6.1 million. Was it a failure? It wasn't until 2010 that Apple sold more than 30 million iPhones in a year.

    Was the iPhone a failure for it's first 3 years? Of course not.

    Just forget iOS or Android exist for a moment. If you had some product and you sold 31 million new units in a year where you didn't actually launch much in the way of new products, and had 100 million + active users of it, you in no way would consider it a failure. Standing alone, those are very big numbers. It's only in comparison to iOS and Android as a percentage that it looks small.

    Based on numbers Microsoft has little choice here.

    EDIT: Here, take a look at this statistic from IDC in December:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Untitled.png 
Views:	25 
Size:	62.3 KB 
ID:	121132
    Worldwide Smartphone Market Will See the First Single-Digit Growth Year on Record, According to IDC - prUS40664915

    Lets forget the very horrible prediction for Windows Phone as its speculation. The current numbers are also HORRIBLE. Yes, no flagship and not that this or those, but that does not matter, only the numbers matter in business.

    The issue for getting around it, is so much more than just one "killer device", or that "crazy one function people cant live without", making this impossible to achieve. They know this; thus to the topic, they have to kill it.

    And once more, they blew it themselves. The market was difficult sure, but there was the need for 3rd platform. The market share started to rise. there was the chance, but when the rise stopped. Its lights out.
    Now, I absolutely agree (as do many others), that Microsoft really did screw this up more than once. It doesn't mean it's full-time just yet though, and I do think the current attempt to merge markets is there best chance of getting back in the game. I came across some articles yesterday on the Surface Pro 3 as it was launching - they were basically calling the Surface line a failure and predicting (and/recommending) Microsoft would drop it soon.

    As a businessman I actually think some developers are missing an opportunity here. If I lived in australia (used to, Europe now), population 20+ million, and I saw some product selling like crazy in the US that wasn't available in Australia, I'd see opportunity - there's a proven, customer validated product and an untapped market with little competition.

    Instead, they're all desperately hoping to be the next big "new" thing in the highly AndriOS world.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    01-24-2016 06:23 PM
  9. Mindi B's Avatar
    Well, I see it in a different light.
    Well that's too bad - because THE MARKET, which is ultimately the number one priority for any product, sees it in the light of WP having no apps and ecosystem to offer. That's the mass consensus.

    And sadly, more bad news (given there's never any good news)...

    Windows 10 Mobile Again Delayed... Should Microsoft Give Up on Its Windows 10 Mobile Strategy?

    Once again delayed. It's seriously time for MS to concede it hasn't worked and to let things go. They'd be much better off creating great apps & services for iOS and Android (which frankly, is what's going on anyway).
    Last edited by Mindi B; 01-24-2016 at 07:09 PM.
    01-24-2016 06:40 PM
  10. ajayden's Avatar
    Well that's too bad - because THE MARKET, which is ultimately the number one priority for any product, sees it in the light of WP having no apps and ecosystem to offer. That's the mass consensus.

    And sadly, more bad news (given there's never any good news)...

    Windows 10 Mobile Again Delayed... Should Microsoft Give Up on Its Windows 10 Mobile Strategy?

    Once again delayed. It's seriously time for MS to concede it hasn't worked and to let things go. They'd be much better off creating great apps & services for iOS and Android (which frankly, is what's going on anyway).
    I think most of us have not go it yet. Microsoft has already let go and they are not competing with anyone. They are just trying to improve the services they have currently. They have already said that they are not looking for market share in mobile market.
    chmun77 likes this.
    01-24-2016 07:18 PM
  11. thetruth1960's Avatar
    Actually, I see it as a positive event, that you are moving to iOS and Android development. If your clients want to develop for those environments, you must develop to earn your living but the positive part comes where you can impress upon your client that after development of the iOS and Android apps, you can develop a Windows Universal App without much effort using islandwood.
    Yep. And I like I said in a previous post, for the systems I build, there is a possibility that the system will benefit from a Windows App. And of course that would be a Universal App.
    01-24-2016 09:51 PM
  12. Mindi B's Avatar
    I think most of us have not go it yet. Microsoft has already let go and they are not competing with anyone. They are just trying to improve the services they have currently. They have already said that they are not looking for market share in mobile market.
    Which means, it has nothing to offer.

    Without market share, you have no developer interest.
    No developer interest = no services to offer that aren't native to the OS.
    theefman likes this.
    01-25-2016 01:21 AM
  13. Timbre70's Avatar
    Saving up for my iPhone 7.
    Mindi B likes this.
    01-25-2016 01:40 AM
  14. Stan Nadella's Avatar
    Saving up for my 950XL, and looking forward to WM10 in February!
    01-25-2016 02:52 AM
  15. M7H's Avatar
    Nadella said Windows Phone is not sustainable with market share that is has now.
    No, he did NOT say that!

    The reporter said it, and he "sort of" agreed, to be able to give his explanation.....
    Loco5150 likes this.
    01-25-2016 05:38 AM
  16. shibiyi's Avatar
    Microsoft os not giving up but they dont care about their loyalist.
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 01-25-2016 at 12:23 PM. Reason: cleanup on aisle 5
    01-25-2016 07:06 AM
  17. Loco5150's Avatar
    I'm an entrepreneur. I've been founding and running my own companies for a couple of decades. Yes, just look at the numbers. Do you know how many units the first iPhone sold? 6.1 million. Was it a failure? It wasn't until 2010 that Apple sold more than 30 million iPhones in a year.

    Was the iPhone a failure for it's first 3 years? Of course not.
    I agree with you on many of your points, but not here. I have to say that comparing this to iPhone is not a good one. Market has changed since the launch of iPhone. iPhone sold more units every year since launch and on the 5th year 120 million units. The difference in that perspective alone is huge compared to WP, the main point being the steady rise vs the growth of WP. And anyway, the market is different now, you cant compare this situation to how iPhone developed.

    The market will change again, iOS and Android will most likely die and make room for something else, but thats not happening yet.
    01-25-2016 12:07 PM
  18. Loco5150's Avatar
    As a businessman I actually think some developers are missing an opportunity here. If I lived in australia (used to, Europe now), population 20+ million, and I saw some product selling like crazy in the US that wasn't available in Australia, I'd see opportunity - there's a proven, customer validated product and an untapped market with little competition.
    Like I wrote I live in Finland. We (I think) actually had the highest market share for Windows Phone. This has since plummeted. The main reason being, that people were disappointed in their devices and the user experience. It was lacking in many way, we cannot disagree on that Im sure. Facebook was subpar for years, many many missing apps, like Instagram and so many others (that actually are missing totally) and the OS had it own shortcomings. Now as an entrepreneur I know this to be a very BIG problem. Its very hard to get someone back after they disappoint and leave.
    01-25-2016 12:36 PM
  19. tgp's Avatar
    Like I wrote I live in Finland. We (I think) actually had the highest market share for Windows Phone. This has since plummeted. The main reason being, that people were disappointed in their devices and the user experience.
    The reason Finland had a high market share for Windows Phone was no doubt because of the Nokia name. Microsoft was very clever to exploit Nokia's name recognition to push Windows Phone. Will that work out long term?

    Now that the Lumia brand has changed from Nokia to Microsoft, it no longer has the clout of Nokia. Has Windows Phone made enough of an inroad to sell well on its own merits? It will also be interesting to see what happens if Nokia releases an Android phone. Will it be able to ride on its reputation of the past?
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-25-2016 12:43 PM
  20. RayWP7's Avatar
    Ok. So I am attempting to reply to a specific post, but for some reason the browser (Edge) or the site is just bumping me to the bottom. So, this will probably just end up a ramble.

    First, I don't agree that Microsoft is giving up. The products and platform continue to evolve and incrementally get better. Is the rate of positive change fast enough? That is very debatable.

    Second, is the platform where it needs to be? Good question. For what it is worth my household presently includes two 950s and a 640XL. One of the 950s was replaced due to bad pixel dead center in screen. Not a platform issue, but all three of them had some stability issues. I don't think people experiencing reboots, etc, is bad hardware. Even if Windows 10 on officially designed/supported devices such as 950 is markedly more stable than Windows 10 on older phones, it may not be stable enough if enough people are experiencing problems. I was Windows 10 Technical Preview participant before 950 release as were all of my household on devices ranging from HTC One M8, 830s, and 530. My most annoying problem now is battery life and I am convinced it is due to Windows Hello (which works pretty well, all things considered). I will pull my phone out of my pocket due to it being a little warm and discover that the red IF LED is lit solid (screen blank/off). Waking the phone with the power button will reset state and the IF LED will turn off. What if the phone is in my jacket chest pocket where I am less likely to sense subtle changes in temperature? I'll tell you what happens. My phone dies in about half a day with nearly zero use. This can be fixed with software issue. Is it in the firmware update? Don't know, haven't checked. But, its a problem we're all having at home.

    Third, I'm no longer a member of TP mainly because I think I've bled enough helping test, contribute feedback, etc. Now I just want to enjoy the fruit of participation. I too am an early adopter since the Samsung Focus. I've possessed nearly every phone/ generation since then on WP. It has definitely evolved and frankly I think for the better present-remaining issues notwithstanding. Now that I've bought my first home, I am finally starting to feel the "app-gap" so many people bitched about. Home automation is harder if you have to use phone to do everything. :) We see more apps from big names coming day by day (or month by month), I just hope we reach some critical point where developers see an advantage of writing Universal apps and the floodgates open. Wishful thinking? Perhaps.

    Fourth, if Windows 10 doesn't succeed I'll be disappointed. Sure. Bigtime. Why? I definitely don't care for Android. And Apple, well, it will do - but I will not relish being exactly like everyone else EVEN IF being so opens up a world of apps for me! Sigh. The cost of wanting options.
    Loco5150 and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-25-2016 02:14 PM
  21. Loco5150's Avatar
    The reason Finland had a high market share for Windows Phone was no doubt because of the Nokia name. Microsoft was very clever to exploit Nokia's name recognition to push Windows Phone. Will that work out long term?

    Now that the Lumia brand has changed from Nokia to Microsoft, it no longer has the clout of Nokia. Has Windows Phone made enough of an inroad to sell well on its own merits? It will also be interesting to see what happens if Nokia releases an Android phone. Will it be able to ride on its reputation of the past?
    Yes of course, but thats not the point here. If you got them to visit the platform and they left out of disappointment, it will be hard to get them back. Great that its only Finland, a small country no one cares about, but the problem still exists. If someone tries or has tried WP, it lacks, it really does, the OS and the APPS. They disappoint, go back and tell everyone about the ****ty experience.

    What Microsoft has on the table now, they cant get around this problem. Even IF (and its a big if because we have been waiting since WP7) they can fix the OS, they will still have the APP problem.

    If you use WP, you will be a second class citizen on the app front. You a) dont have the app you want or b) it lacks features or c) iOS and Android get the new features way ahead WP.

    I know this, I was with the platform for ages! WP has (or had ;)) potential, yes, but Microsoft failed to execute.

    EDIT: And like someone wrote here on this page and I forgot to mention, what I love now being on Android is that Bluetooth devices actually work! I have bought Casio and Magellan watches. Its amazing to look at gadgets and know, that these will work on your device... Its totally different world than with WP.

    Disclaimer: :D Im not a big fan of Android (or Google) in some aspects, but Im pointing out the problems that WP has, things that dont exist in the other 2 platforms. I know you all know these issues, I just dont think anymore that MS cant get around them. Im not a believer anymore.
    Last edited by Loco5150; 01-25-2016 at 03:14 PM.
    tgp and Andrew Gordon like this.
    01-25-2016 02:48 PM
  22. Loco5150's Avatar
    Ok. So I am attempting to reply to a specific post, but for some reason the browser (Edge) or the site is just bumping me to the bottom. So, this will probably just end up a ramble.
    I hope they release other browsers to WP soon. But they probably wont, they killed the metro Firefox also, is there even others in development?
    01-25-2016 02:51 PM
  23. tgp's Avatar
    Yes of course, but thats not the point here. If you got them to visit the platform and they left out of disappointment, it will be hard to get them back. Great that its only Finland, a small country no one cares about, but the problem still exists. If someone tries or has tried WP, it lacks, it really does, the OS and the APPS. They disappoint, go back and tell everyone about the ****ty experience.

    What Microsoft has on the table now, they cant get around this problem. Even IF (and its a big if because we have been waiting since WP7) they can fix the OS, they will still have the APP problem.

    If you use WP, you will be a second class citizen on the app front. You a) dont have the app you want or b) it lacks features or c) iOS and Android get the new features way ahead WP.

    I know this, I was with the platform for ages! WP has (or had ;)) potential, yes, but Microsoft failed to execute.
    Yes I agree 100%. Using Nokia was a way to use a current vehicle to get Windows Phones into users' hands. The question is, will they stay after trying it? A lot of them probably weren't even really aware of what they were getting into.

    I don't think that Nokia's Windows Phone "experiment" did Nokia's name any favors. I guess it remains to be seen to what extent it was affected, if Nokia does in fact release an Android phone.
    01-25-2016 03:04 PM
  24. mdefran65's Avatar
    Yess me to!!! I've been using 3 different WP's and only twice I've seen all the issues on this site.
    01-25-2016 03:11 PM
  25. VermaEklavya's Avatar
    I have the dual sim. I love the phone and the platform. I'm just concerned that MS almost seems to be forgetting about us and focusing on the other platforms. I don't, however, recommend it the way I have in the past.
    It seems Nadella's philosophy of Mobile First Cloud First was not limited to Windows phones and OneDrive. As a strategy, I think it's great. "If you can't beat them, join them". There's nothing wrong with that, all companies are in it for profit. In this case, MS is unfortunately overlooking the needs of its first party customer base, or so it seems. Microsoft should now choose the customer base they really want to serve, and focus on that instead of trying to make everyone happy. Even Apple put its own productivity suite on the side to give priority to MS on iOS (and also OSX?), coz they know they are in the hardware business, and are focusing on exactly that.
    01-25-2016 04:08 PM
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