04-04-2016 07:15 AM
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  1. Deepak's Avatar
    I'm not blind. I see them. I simply just don't want them and it seems that way for most Lumia fans.
    Yes it seems that way for me too. But Lumia has lost its sheen. Everyone is now looking forward to Surface phone (which I think won't make much difference). I too don't want to buy a non-Lumia WM but if the company is not willing to improve their phone business then I, as a consumer, won't be willing to wait either. If Microsoft releases a new phone within 4-5 months (which is unlikely) then I would gladly wait else I'll consider Lumia 950XL. But if some other manufacturer is offering me a better option then why not consider it? Lumia is no iPhone and would never be. So, for the platform to grow, it needs global or even regional OEMs. The so-called term "Lumia fans" holds no relevance now. Just my opinion.
    rianext and RumoredNow like this.
    03-12-2016 06:12 AM
  2. Vishnu PG's Avatar
    https://www.change.org/p/microsoft-w...edium=copyLink

    Started the petition guys..

    First Challenge :
    Need 5 Signatures.

    Head over and show your support
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-12-2016 07:20 AM
  3. Vishnu PG's Avatar
    Go ahead if you are sure of it...but make sure you have the resolve to keep pushing for it and let more people know about it here. Many petitions have tanked within days because the petitioner didn't dedicate enough time and energy to the cause.
    I am willing to go the distance...

    https://www.change.org/p/microsoft-w...edium=copyLink

    Help me reach the first target of 5 signatures.

    Constructive Edits are welcome to the petition
    RumoredNow and Guytronic like this.
    03-12-2016 07:23 AM
  4. Kevin Hill2's Avatar
    As great as some of the Lumia phones have been there needs to be a bigger choice out there, and I have always said this, Microsoft is not Apple, as much as the Lumia fans would like it to be. If Windows phone is going to make it there needs to be a choice of phones, styles and prices. What does it matter if say Samsung makes an SG7 Windows phone to go along with the Android, you would get a great Windows phone. Me personally, have a problem with Chinese phones, And I'm sure they are good if not great. I'm looking forward to the new HP phone. Embrace something new. Still loving my Windows M8.
    03-12-2016 09:11 AM
  5. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Nah I'm good. Bring me the next Microsoft phone. I really don't want android rehashes and I like Lumia camera and apps.
    That's a good point. Lumia firmware is a huge value added package.

    OEMs that want to enter this space need to spend time and $ on their firmware, not just take the free to 6" and under devices OS, tweak it to work on the hardware and call it a day.

    Users expect and deserve niceties. At this point in the game, most OEMs "skin" Android. They should do the same with W10M if they want to succeed with this audience.

    On a BLU, at least the OS feels attuned to the hardware. And, so far as I know, it isn't simply cloned from their Android offerings.

    But Lumia touches were missing:
    • Glance Screen
    • Double Tap to Wake
    • Brightness and Color Profiles
    • EQ
    • Relying on the stock Camera App without customizing the algorithms and having a sub-par Camera experience out of the box (and this is huge - more and more consumers use their mobile device as their only camera)
    • Sensor Core
    • Gestures
    03-12-2016 10:51 AM
  6. rianext's Avatar
    That's a good point. Lumia firmware is a huge value added package.

    OEMs that want to enter this space need to spend time and $ on their firmware, not just take the free to 6" and under devices OS, tweak it to work on the hardware and call it a day.
    [/LIST]
    Yes indeed. HTC One M8 did initially get its own customization..like using Cortana on their flip cover. Their support kinda died out soon after though...

    Recently Xiaomi updated their firmware for the mi4 win10 mobile with camera updates and crash fixes... which makes me hopeful because they did it even with very few users.

    But ultimately I think support for windows phones by other OEMs will not sustain unless we become more vocal about our wants from other OEMs. Xiaomi mi4 was used as a test bed for a win10 rom, maybe they ought to know that we like the idea and we need more phones like that, if not with win10 preloaded.

    Which brings me back to my original point..let OEMs know you want windows from them...most of this community hasn't expressed interest in others for nearly 3 years because Nokia/Microsoft churned out enough phones to keep the majority of us happy...those times are gone...now is the time to be vocal about wanting phones from other OEMs. I am sure Microsoft is doing their part to court OEMs...why dont we do ours to let OEMs know that there is demand to meet what Microsoft is asking of them?
    03-12-2016 11:21 AM
  7. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Users expect and deserve niceties. At this point in the game, most OEMs "skin" Android. They should do the same with W10M if they want to succeed with this audience.
    Is it even possible for OEMs to "skin" Windows 10 Mobile?

    I agree that the OEM skins and launchers are a huge factor in the myriad Android devices available. I doubt if there would be nearly as many Android devices available if stock Android were the only option.
    Guytronic likes this.
    03-12-2016 12:44 PM
  8. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Is it even possible for OEMs to "skin" Windows 10 Mobile?

    I agree that the OEM skins and launchers are a huge factor in the myriad Android devices available. I doubt if there would be nearly as many Android devices available if stock Android were the only option.
    Having seen the difference first hand between the likes of L520/521/635/640 and BLU Win HD/Win HD LTE + reading here about OneTouch Fierce XL, One (M8) Windows, etc... And having been on Android for awhile with a few different phones and a couple of tablets + using my wife's Android choices...

    I have no problem answering yes, W10M and WP can be skinned...

    There are AOSP and Factory ROMS and there are overlays like TouchWiz, Sense and others. They may add a bit more or less to the UI, but their main focus is "value added" Apps, Features and Settings. Whatever changes the Android OEMs are making, it is mostly cosmetic in terms of User Interface. Samsung has the same Home "Pages," App Drawer, Icon Tray, and pull down Notification/Settings window shades as a Nexus. Recognizably so. It's really only in the 3rdy party developer world of custom tweaks and ROMS that users deviate into areas that might be considered significantly divergent. Android has certain "standards" that they promote in terms of UI and I've not seen OEMs getting too far away from that. Even with in-house forks.

    In that respect, running a BLU Win HD LTE is like the WP 8.1 version of a bare bones AOSP ROM. Or by all accounts I've read, a Fierce XL or Coship Moly X1 is the AOSP equivalent for W10M. Lumia Firmware is a skin, make no mistakes about it. It always has been an additional layer on top of the OS to provide "value added" Apps, Features and Settings. Lumia Firmware is no more of an Operating System than TouchWiz. Some mistake TouchWiz for Android and Lumia for Windows Phone. They are the same thing, in essence. A "skin" so readily recognizable and identified with an OS that they have become synonymous with the OS in the minds of many consumers.

    Not every cola is a Coke, but Coke is synonymous with cola.

    Not every Windows Phone is a Lumia...

    There is room here and now for an OEM or three to put their own additional layer onto the W10M OS and come up with something value added, rather than bare bones.
    03-12-2016 01:45 PM
  9. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Having seen the difference first hand between the likes of L520/521/635/640 and BLU Win HD/Win HD LTE + reading here about OneTouch Fierce XL, One (M8) Windows, etc... And having been on Android for awhile with a few different phones and a couple of tablets + using my wife's Android choices...

    I have no problem answering yes, W10M and WP can be skinned...

    There are AOSP and Factory ROMS and there are overlays like TouchWiz, Sense and others. They may add a bit more or less to the UI, but their main focus is "value added" Apps, Features and Settings. Whatever changes the Android OEMs are making, it is mostly cosmetic in terms of User Interface. Samsung has the same Home "Pages," App Drawer, Icon Tray, and pull down Notification/Settings window shades as a Nexus. Recognizably so. It's really only in the 3rdy party developer world of custom tweaks and ROMS that users deviate into areas that might be considered significantly divergent. Android has certain "standards" that they promote in terms of UI and I've not seen OEMs getting too far away from that. Even with in-house forks.

    In that respect, running a BLU Win HD LTE is like the WP 8.1 version of a bare bones AOSP ROM. Or by all accounts I've read, a Fierce XL or Coship Moly X1 is the AOSP equivalent for W10M. Lumia Firmware is a skin, make no mistakes about it. It always has been an additional layer on top of the OS to provide "value added" Apps, Features and Settings. Lumia Firmware is no more of an Operating System than TouchWiz. Some mistake TouchWiz for Android and Lumia for Windows Phone. They are the same thing, in essence. A "skin" so readily recognizable and identified with an OS that they have become synonymous with the OS in the minds of many consumers.

    Not every cola is a Coke, but Coke is synonymous with cola.

    Not every Windows Phone is a Lumia...

    There is room here and now for an OEM or three to put their own additional layer onto the W10M OS and come up with something value added, rather than bare bones.
    Thanks!

    What I'm referring to are things like TouchWiz, Sense, EMUI. I can instantly distinguish whether I'm using a Nexus, Samsung, HTC, or Huawei Android device. The skins are that obviously distinct.

    I haven't played with a Windows Phone that wasn't a Lumia since the Samsung ATIV, and I didn't notice any obvious difference other than the hardware and certain OEM specific apps. It was nothing like the difference between a Nexus and a Galaxy.
    RumoredNow, Guytronic and libra89 like this.
    03-12-2016 01:53 PM
  10. RumoredNow's Avatar
    IMHO, they are distinct in part due to cosmetics. They change how the various UI elements display, not how they function. Navigation remains pretty uniform. Home pages, App trays, etc. They add "a certain look" but stay within Google design guides for how the User Interfaces with the OS. Most significant differences are not UI related outside of a "theme" that is superimposed. They are added settings, features and Apps that yield a differing UX (User eXperience).

    I'm not convinced our points are at odds here. Lumia never diverged on UI and they added little in terms of "a look," yet they significantly changed what is delivered in terms of UX by expanding settings, features and Apps.

    UI is a major function and dictatorial element of an OS. UX is where Firmware extrapolates from and builds upon OS and this is the meat and potatoes of an Android "skin". It may or may not be dressed up in a "look" which is akin to a theme.
    03-12-2016 02:27 PM
  11. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    IMHO, they are distinct in part due to cosmetics. They change how the various UI elements display, not how they function. Navigation remains pretty uniform. Home pages, App trays, etc. They add "a certain look" but stay within Google design guides for how the User Interfaces with the OS. Most significant differences are not UI related outside of a "theme" that is superimposed. They are added settings, features and Apps that yield a differing UX (User eXperience).

    I'm not convinced our points are at odds here. Lumia never diverged on UI and they added little in terms of "a look," yet they significantly changed what is delivered in terms of UX by expanding settings, features and Apps.

    UI is a major function and dictatorial element of an OS. UX is where Firmware extrapolates from and builds upon OS and this is the meat and potatoes of an Android "skin". It may or may not be dressed up in a "look" which is akin to a theme.
    I understand what you're saying. The major difference is that some Android OEMs deviate rather drastically from stock Android or even other OEMs. For example, EMUI completely abandons the app drawer, and the EMUI icons resemble those of iOS.

    Would it be possible for a Windows 10 Mobile OEM completely change the appearance of the tiles?

    BTW, I always used themes in BBOS. I never kept the stock BlackBerry theme.
    Guytronic and RumoredNow like this.
    03-12-2016 02:37 PM
  12. Guytronic's Avatar
    UI is a major function and dictatorial element of an OS. UX is where Firmware extrapolates from and builds upon OS and this is the meat and potatoes of an Android "skin". It may or may not be dressed up in a "look" which is akin to a theme.
    Here...here...

    It's good to be a Windows/Lumia purist.
    It's also good to see Windows on something other than Nokia/Microsoft Lumia phones.

    Skinned versions would be very interesting.
    It would be great to see the UI jump out of the screen and come at the user in an artful way.
    Staring at the 8.1 screen became tiresome because of how flat it had become.
    Microsoft of course has hit the bump (again) scrambling to redesign the OS (forced by fans)
    The one greatest nicety for me that WM10 offers now is that it's much more customizable.
    Perhaps that's a lightweight feature yet it was important since I change screens often.

    Maybe skinned versions would be a good path and allow the OS to spread it's wings.
    03-12-2016 02:57 PM
  13. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    The HP Elite is the only upcoming W10M device I'd have interest in, but I'm still tied to my 950 on AT&T Next until November. I'll keep an eye on whether or not an OEM makes a good piece of AT&T-available hardware around that time, ideally with an Intel SoC.
    03-12-2016 08:56 PM
  14. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Here...here...

    It's good to be a Windows/Lumia purist.
    It's also good to see Windows on something other than Nokia/Microsoft Lumia phones.

    Skinned versions would be very interesting.
    It would be great to see the UI jump out of the screen and come at the user in an artful way.
    Staring at the 8.1 screen became tiresome because of how flat it had become.
    Microsoft of course has hit the bump (again) scrambling to redesign the OS (forced by fans)
    The one greatest nicety for me that WM10 offers now is that it's much more customizable.
    Perhaps that's a lightweight feature yet it was important since I change screens often.

    Maybe skinned versions would be a good path and allow the OS to spread it's wings.
    We already have that. It's called android and we see what happens when all that customization happens there. Delayed updates, performance issues, etc etc
    theefman likes this.
    03-12-2016 10:03 PM
  15. Guytronic's Avatar
    Delayed updates, performance issues, etc etc
    You talking about Android or Windows?
    libra89 likes this.
    03-12-2016 10:10 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    We already have that. It's called android and we see what happens when all that customization happens there. Delayed updates, performance issues, etc etc
    Skins were a thing in Windows Mobile 6.5

    HTC looked nothing like Samsung.
    firestone_500x375.jpg

    omnialite-b7300.jpg

    Microsoft even had dev tools for theme creation. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...or=-2147217396
    Guytronic, RumoredNow and libra89 like this.
    03-12-2016 10:13 PM
  17. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I still say the value of a skin is more than cosmetic. To me at least.

    Sure there are themers out there for WP and W10M allows a bit more leeway in how you dress out the Start and Notifications areas.

    I'd rather an OEM concentrate on bringing Features and Apps to expand the UX. That is where Lumia made their real stamp on WP and now another can try and elevate beyond the pedestrian and workmanlike OS.
    Laura Knotek, Guytronic and tgp like this.
    03-12-2016 10:25 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I still say the value of a skin is more than cosmetic. To me at least.

    Sure there are themers out there for WP and W10M allows a bit more leeway in how you dress out the Start and Notifications areas.

    I'd rather an OEM concentrate on bringing Features and Apps to expand the UX. That is where Lumia made their real stamp on WP and now another can try and elevate beyond the pedestrian and workmanlike OS.
    I think skins and themes could enhance the UX. When I used BlackBerry, I used a theme that looked almost identical to my Windows 7 desktop. I have my Android phone and tablet arranged almost identically in terms of icon sets, folders, widgets.

    Imagine if one could use the same style arrangement on his/her Windows 10 desktop and Windows 10 Mobile device. Having everything in the same place with a similar look might enhance the UX for that person.
    03-12-2016 10:37 PM
  19. Guytronic's Avatar
    Hmmm...
    Maybe private enterprise apps might end up rolling into the public consumer side as useful and popular.
    03-12-2016 10:38 PM
  20. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    You talking about Android or Windows?
    Android.
    03-13-2016 01:24 AM
  21. Avi Mathur's Avatar
    So as a windows community, will that be great i we all can tweet to OEM demanding for windows 10 phones. I love the design and grip of moto Turbo. Can we get that as a WIN 10 phone? well... i just tweeted on their wall.
    Lets all Windows Central Community show how much we would love to get the windows versions of their phone.

    So hey you reading this comment, just tweet on your fav OEM's wall asking him to provide you with a windows version of those phones.
    Lazy ? seriously?

    okay just copy and paste the following on you twitter account. --
    "@Moto_IND I absolutely love the design for motorolla turbo, but i am a Windows fan @MicrosoftIndia Can you provide ROM for moto phones?"
    03-13-2016 09:18 AM
  22. Angry_Mushroom's Avatar
    We already have that. It's called android and we see what happens when all that customization happens there. Delayed updates, performance issues, etc etc
    I'm gonna be fair. My Lumia 810 got just a few firmware updates, it had performance issues towards the end, and TMO related etc. My experiences with Windows Phone 8 boiled down to "our break is just a month down the line." The break never came while I used my phone, and it still seems to be "just around the corner." Software support for the first run of Windows Phone devices felt weak, and frankly fell short of what Android makers used to support. Lumia 810 died within a year, 822 was relegated to the shadows, and 820 never seemed to catch on. By the time of the 925, the hardware was being pushed to obsolescence, and never felt it caught on. And as far as software support went? Even the 920 and 928 seemed to have troubles on timely updates.

    Forget the OEM hardware support. I need Microsoft to just do a full release of Windows 10 Mobile. I never felt it actually launch as a finished, polished product. That's what's keeping me from going back. It seems to be stuck in developer hell. I don't care how great the hardware being released is... It's pointless if the software isn't up to snuff. Fix the software issues and app issue, and you've got my attention.
    Guytronic and Laura Knotek like this.
    03-13-2016 11:09 AM
  23. v535's Avatar
    I hope MS pulls a NOKIA this time around with SPhone or Lumia. L650's design language is very good considering the fact that MS always released MS devices in a slate form and I think future Lumia or SPhones must use the same design language, but with better internal specs. The more I think about phones designed by NOKIA, I simply miss their harmony these days with MS designed phones. I think the official w10 stable builds for every phone will come in Fall '16.
    03-13-2016 12:59 PM
  24. tgp's Avatar
    I read this...
    My experiences with Windows Phone 8 boiled down to "our break is just a month down the line." The break never came while I used my phone, and it still seems to be "just around the corner."
    And then in the next post I read this...
    I think the official w10 stable builds for every phone will come in Fall '16.
    Angry_Mushroom, your point is proven!
    libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    03-13-2016 05:16 PM
  25. Vishnu PG's Avatar
    https://www.change.org/p/microsoft-w...er-oem-devices

    i personally started this petition..
    its open to all OEM
    03-14-2016 01:07 AM
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