04-04-2016 08:15 AM
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  1. rianext's Avatar
    Microsoft has essentially withdrawn Lumia from the broad consumer market. The idea is to give some space to other OEMs to enter the windows market with appealing products.

    I think in some ways,this approach is working with us the fans/consumers. When Lumia was thriving under Nokia and later had so many choices under Microsoft, i never really considered other OEMs. Sure, i was really glad that they were giving the platform a go but i was quite comfortable buying phones under the established Lumia brand, especially because the phones came from Microsoft. I think many of us here felt the same way too, praising the new OEMs but ultimately intending to stick with Lumia.

    Now because of the lack of choices or compelling hardware from Lumia, i find myself looking at other OEMs. Recently I have been looking at Xiaomi, Oneplus, Lenovo & Moto. I have even requested some of them via their twitter handles to look into making windows phones. I believe many others are there like me who have now slowly turned away from Lumia and have started paying attention to other OEMs.

    The other day, i tweeted to Xiaomi and Microsoft India to consider building a Windows 10 ROM for Mi5. Though its already rumoured to be in the works, it never hurts to show your interest :) I got a response from MS that the feedback will be cascaded. https://twitter.com/MicrosoftIndia/s...53191356088320

    Perhaps the rest of you here ought to make your interests in other OEMs known more vocally? Forget the Surface Phone for now...its still a year away and without new OEMs stepping in, Windows is likely to be even further behind from a market share perspective...This is the right time to start letting other favourite OEMs know that you want Windows phones from them :)
    03-11-2016 03:20 PM
  2. TechFreak1's Avatar
    It's all about supply and demand, in this case it's the other way round :P.

    People need to start demanding for OEM's to start "supplying" more windows phones.
    03-11-2016 05:03 PM
  3. RumoredNow's Avatar
    It's all about supply and demand, in this case it's the other way round :P.

    People need to start demanding for OEM's to start "supplying" more windows phones.
    Right you are... Supply and Demand...

    There are two major components to this. The lower the price, the more consumers who are willing to demand the product. The higher the price. the more manufacturers who are willing to supply the product.

    The sweet spot is where those two lines intersect. That's the key segment. In the past, Nokia squatted on that spot and tended to drive all others away by flooding the market at that segment for each device level (budget/midrange/flagship). To be fair, they were fighting for viability.

    Now that sweet spot is up for grabs since Microsoft retreated intentionally. Competition could be a very good thing for the platform and the consumer.

    supply_demand_1.png



    If the price and perceived value can be marketed correctly this pulls consumers from other markets like Android and iOS.

    Price needs to be lower for comparable hardware and/or perceived value (intangibles like UX, superior service or tangibles like bundled accessories) needs to be higher, then consumers move to the new product.


    It's what attracted me to BLU, twice. Good price and they bundle in a screen protector and a TPU case in matching color + they still give headsets and a nice length charge/sync cable.
    03-11-2016 05:18 PM
  4. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    It's all about supply and demand, in this case it's the other way round .

    People need to start demanding for OEM's to start "supplying" more windows phones.
    That sounds nice, but it is useless unless people actually commit with their wallets. Otherwise it will be as big a failure as that "support a developer and buy an app" thread. Lots of people post on Twitter about wanting apps, but that thread was pretty much crickets.
    03-11-2016 05:24 PM
  5. rianext's Avatar
    I think its important that other OEMs know that windows users are starting to look for phones from them. It may help them realize that Microsoft is committed to their strategy to retrench and push their own customers to other OEMs. The chatter on twitter about WP is increasingly moving away from shiny new Lumias to hopes and requests for other OEMs to dive into the windows market.
    We may actually be 3-4% market (eroded to 2% only because of lack of WPs) but I think that's still important and quite a bit for an OEM or two to capture given that most of them get very little of the android share (last year MS sold 10 million phones in a quarter while only at 3% market share).
    The market is there for windows if a few OEMs decide to work on it. Microsoft still managed 10 million just by pushing out numerous phones despite minimum marketing and lack of apps!

    If these OEMs were to pitch in, am sure their phones will be stocked in many of the Microsoft stores and resellers across the world and be positioned right next to MS's own Lumia.
    RumoredNow and Guytronic like this.
    03-11-2016 06:14 PM
  6. TechFreak1's Avatar
    That sounds nice, but it is useless unless people actually commit with their wallets. Otherwise it will be as big a failure as that "support a developer and buy an app" thread. Lots of people post on Twitter about wanting apps, but that thread was pretty much crickets.
    I hear you, however the dynamics here are much more different then previously .

    Here is why (not directed at you lol, just speaking in general):

    1) We have OEM's actually pushing into Enterprise segment not with your run of the mill handsets but geared for extensibility and setting the bar pretty darn high - of course I'm referring to the HP's Elite X3.

    2) If we go all the way back, WP7 had plenty of OEM support however they got burned during the WP7 - WP8 transition. Then we had Nokia getting "preferential treatment" which also pushed OEM's away and in the absence of interest from these OEMs, Nokia dominated the WP market, Microsoft takes over the D&S division and continues the same path of churning out handset after handset in rapid succession which didn't help. The OEMs felt they were still competing but this time against Microsoft.

    Fast forward to present day

    Now that Microsoft retrenched (admittedly in stark fashion and with spades of silly decisions along the way) has given the market to the OEMs on a platter combined with the fact they will handle the o/s updates and OEM's would be responsible for firmware.

    This gives the OEMs a new market to flex their limbs in and significant cost savings in handling updates as well as a repair tool which they don’t have to maintain.

    Plus we have reached the saturation point where OEMs can't bundle anymore additional gizmos on board phones without significantly impacting battery life so the only play as a USP here is Continuum and the gateway for growth is the enterprise (I'm not saying the OEMs, Apple and Google are sitting around just twiddling their thumbs ).

    As it will take some time for the consumers to get on board with continuum - cue the universal app platform - which is why we are seeing messaging apps which makes sense only on phones turning into universal apps (Line), music apps (deezer) and many more will follow. Why support large screen mode on just the phone when you can be on a tablet, desktop PC and laptop?

    Some of you may ask why, simply put what other path is there?

    Waiting for AR as a platform to take hold is just silly therefore you do the next best thing and that is expand onto a new platform that is available now.

    That is Windows 10.

    Which gives them potential access to every single user using W10; it's not about who or how many will use the app but the potential of new users - would you refuse the chance to serve 200 million + potential customers and risk the chance of being over taken by someone else?

    As after all you can't patent a service just the underlying core technology - how that service is run and maintained.

    Sure, you could probably sustain yourself with the current install base on other platforms but where does the growth come from?

    A new platform.

    Case in point which is why we started seeing certain apps come to windows phone after the hype around them died down on the other platforms.

    So yeah the dynamics right now are waaaay a lot different then what they were a few years ago.

    But it is no means a done deal as Microsoft has a lot of work to do and providing they don’t shoot themselves in the foot. This momentum will continue to keep going.
    03-11-2016 06:32 PM
  7. Guytronic's Avatar
    Think its time we let OEMs know we are interested in their Windows phones
    People who like Windows on a phone have been trying and are interested.

    High end for the government/enterprise/business/professional and keep it low end for the consumer crowd <<< (been said before here on WC)
    Wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the lowly Lumia 521 (I bought two of them)
    I did move away from WP then tried the Alcatel for the purposes of checking out WM10.
    The Alcatel is attractive at it's price yet sadly I've been disappointed with it's build quality as a native W10 device.

    I don't know what will save the platform it's a very high wall to climb over.
    Frankly there is no solution unless Microsoft wants to solve it.
    03-11-2016 06:52 PM
  8. RumoredNow's Avatar
    ...it will be as big a failure as that "support a developer and buy an app" thread.
    *sigh* The anniversary was a couple weeks ago. It came up on my calendar and seeing it stabbed at my heart.


    The Alcatel is attractive at it's price yet sadly I've been disappointed with it's build quality as a native W10 device.
    Yeah. I'm disappointed to see the results in Alcatel OneTouch Fierce XL and Coship Moly X1 forums. A few trying, not many cheers and quite a few jeers.

    Honestly, I was happy with both my BLU phones. For budget devices they did alright by me. And I made sure to get in the forums and cheer-lead for them.

    Lumia has dominated this platform for so long too many are blind to the alternatives at this point. Are we even capable still, as a user group, to provide enough sales for multiple OEMs on a world stage? Or will it be increasingly regional offerings like the Fierce XL and the Nuans Neo?
    03-11-2016 07:55 PM
  9. Guytronic's Avatar
    Lumia has dominated this platform for so long too many are blind to the alternatives at this point. Are we even capable still, as a user group, to provide enough sales for multiple OEMs on a world stage? Or will it be increasingly regional offerings like the Fierce XL and the Nuans Neo?
    Gotta say "hats off" to the Nokia phones of yore.
    So many of them are still hanging in there on 8.1

    I'm using my 8.1 Nokia Lumia 925 as an actual cellphone right now (easy to use camera too)

    I am still rooting for non Lumia makers to get a foothold however.
    There may be a success story out there somewhere.
    03-11-2016 08:16 PM
  10. rianext's Avatar

    Lumia has dominated this platform for so long too many are blind to the alternatives at this point. Are we even capable still, as a user group, to provide enough sales for multiple OEMs on a world stage? Or will it be increasingly regional offerings like the Fierce XL and the Nuans Neo?
    I think we are getting there. Especially in the recent times, the 950s design letdown and then the 650's specs not matching up to rival phone specs (although its a beautiful phone) have all let down the community here. If I didn't know better, i would say Microsoft has knowingly brought down the appeal for Lumia and kept marketing to a minimum so that people turn to other OEMs as well.

    When HP came out with their phone, people were really cheering for them although it was directed for enterprise... No sign of Lumia fans bashing the competition...same was the case with Nuans Neo...and again with the rumours on ROMs being worked on for xiaomi's mi5 and one plus (3?)..

    I think people are more ready than ever for alternatives to Lumia...
    03-11-2016 08:40 PM
  11. Guytronic's Avatar
    I think people are more ready than ever for alternatives to Lumia...
    The rub is that this applies to people who like and use Windows phones.

    Non-Lumia manufacturers are still faced with the additional costs of driving a sales campaign.

    I know that this sounds as though I'm trying tread on the effort but it's just how it's going to go.
    Fact is right now Windows phones aren't a money maker.
    We as users may enjoy the platform.
    Corporations however aren't in it to do anyone a favor.

    Rumored's simple graph above pretty much bottom lines it.
    03-12-2016 03:59 AM
  12. Vishnu PG's Avatar
    We should start a petition and have the OEM's listen to us.
    03-12-2016 04:06 AM
  13. Guytronic's Avatar
    We should start a petition and have the OEM's listen to us.
    Okay,,,
    You start
    03-12-2016 04:08 AM
  14. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    The rub is that this applies to people who like and use Windows phones.

    Non-Lumia manufacturers are still faced with the additional costs of driving a sales campaign.

    I know that this sounds as though I'm trying tread on the effort but it's just how it's going to go.
    Fact is right now Windows phones aren't a money maker.
    We as users may enjoy the platform.
    Corporations however aren't in it to do anyone a favor.

    Rumored's simple graph above pretty much bottom lines it.
    It also doesn't help that Alcatel and Coship Moly aren't well known brands, either in the US or in Europe/Asia/Africa/South America. OnePlus, Xiaomi, Moto/Lenovo are better known in many countries. However, many of the better known brands have downsized their product lines or are still trying to gain a foothold in the market. OnePlus has finally started selling the OnePlus 2 without invites. Xiaomi isn't available in the US. Lenovo/Moto is downsizing its product lines to cut costs.
    03-12-2016 04:13 AM
  15. Guytronic's Avatar
    It also doesn't help that Alcatel and Coship Moly aren't well known brands, either in the US or in Europe/Asia/Africa/South America. OnePlus, Xiaomi, Moto/Lenovo are better known in many countries. However, many of the better known brands have downsized their product lines or are still trying to gain a foothold in the market. OnePlus has finally started selling the OnePlus 2 without invites. Xiaomi isn't available in the US. Lenovo/Moto is downsizing its product lines to cut costs.
    Plus the mobile market is leveling from what I read.
    I believe a lot people keep their high cost devices longer now.

    This is all happening at a time when the Windows Mobile platform needs a growing overall market.
    This latest mobile device slow down isn't going to ignite any renewed interest.
    Laura Knotek and RumoredNow like this.
    03-12-2016 04:20 AM
  16. Vishnu PG's Avatar
    Gonna start it, Suggest a suitable title and some ideas, i can correlate them and have it ready

    Edit:Tentative Title:

    Windows 10 Mobile availability for Xiaomi, One Plus, and other OEM devices
    Guytronic and RumoredNow like this.
    03-12-2016 04:21 AM
  17. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Plus the mobile market is leveling from what I read.
    I believe a lot people keep their high cost devices longer now.

    This is all happening at a time when the Windows Mobile platform needs a growing overall market.
    This latest mobile device slow down isn't going to ignite any renewed interest.
    You're right, especially regarding the US market. Since most of the US carriers have eliminated contracts, the typical US customer who upgraded every 2 years due to the subsidies has less of an incentive to upgrade.
    Guytronic and RumoredNow like this.
    03-12-2016 04:28 AM
  18. rianext's Avatar
    Plus the mobile market is leveling from what I read.
    I believe a lot people keep their high cost devices longer now.

    This is all happening at a time when the Windows Mobile platform needs a growing overall market.
    This latest mobile device slow down isn't going to ignite any renewed interest.
    Maybe there is a slowdown in the overall mobile market. But just like how the 2 in 1 tablets is growing within a declining tablet market, I think we can expect in about two years for windows mobiles to take off as well when continuum improves and because of the increasing number of universal apps.
    Eventually as IDC predicts the tablet sales to increase again in 2017 as a result of increased demand for 2 in 1 devices, we may see the same happen with windows phones...
    But lets come back to the present...:) which OEM would you want building your windows phone...and knowing that the market isn't favouring us right now, would you go as far enough as to drop an email to their support team or tweet them requesting for windows phones or at least ROM support? (if you finally do tweet, make sure you tag MS in it like I did!)
    Guytronic and RumoredNow like this.
    03-12-2016 05:17 AM
  19. Schnuffi's Avatar
    I am with you guys but it will be hard, the market is saturated almost everyone that wants a smart phone has one. In a strange way that might help our app problem because someone might write apps to our platform because the whole market it is saturated they might see us as an automatic 3% or whatever.
    03-12-2016 05:36 AM
  20. Schnuffi's Avatar
    But while we are at it we should start a campaign to get app developers onboard as well.
    RumoredNow and Guytronic like this.
    03-12-2016 05:39 AM
  21. rianext's Avatar
    But while we are at it we should start a campaign to get app developers onboard as well.
    There is a website doing that already...check it out...:)

    http://wishapplist.com/en
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 03-12-2016 at 11:35 AM. Reason: direct hyperlink
    03-12-2016 05:57 AM
  22. rianext's Avatar
    Gonna start it, Suggest a suitable title and some ideas, i can correlate them and have it ready

    Edit:Tentative Title:

    Windows 10 Mobile availability for Xiaomi, One Plus, and other OEM devices
    Go ahead if you are sure of it...but make sure you have the resolve to keep pushing for it and let more people know about it here. Many petitions have tanked within days because the petitioner didn't dedicate enough time and energy to the cause.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-12-2016 06:00 AM
  23. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Nah I'm good. Bring me the next Microsoft phone. I really don't want android rehashes and I like Lumia camera and apps.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-12-2016 06:42 AM
  24. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    *sigh* The anniversary was a couple weeks ago. It came up on my calendar and seeing it stabbed at my heart.




    Yeah. I'm disappointed to see the results in Alcatel OneTouch Fierce XL and Coship Moly X1 forums. A few trying, not many cheers and quite a few jeers.

    Honestly, I was happy with both my BLU phones. For budget devices they did alright by me. And I made sure to get in the forums and cheer-lead for them.

    Lumia has dominated this platform for so long too many are blind to the alternatives at this point. Are we even capable still, as a user group, to provide enough sales for multiple OEMs on a world stage? Or will it be increasingly regional offerings like the Fierce XL and the Nuans Neo?
    I'm not blind. I see them. I simply just don't want them and it seems that way for most Lumia fans.
    03-12-2016 06:44 AM
  25. rianext's Avatar
    I'm not blind. I see them. I simply just don't want them and it seems that way for most Lumia fans.
    I have always been a Lumia fan. I would still hold the next high end from Microsoft as my number one choice. But the fact is its a long way away. And when I look at the phones churned out by xiaomi and oneplus for half the price, they are actually quite nice!
    When x20 series was popular, a lot of my friends opted for Lumia - midrange or low end...but now as their time to upgrade approaches, its hard to recommend the current bunch of lumias...x40 and x50 bumped up ram by 512MB only and we are still using 2 year old processors...compare phones like Lenovo and xiaomi and its unbelievable how much they've got going at the same price range here in India - 3GB ram is a minimum nowadays...
    While I lie in wait to see what Microsoft has to offer next, If a good phone at a decent price comes along, I will no longer hesitate to consider it. Microsoft is encouraging such changes, I consider that itself to be a good reason to look beyond Lumias.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-12-2016 06:59 AM
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