05-10-2016 02:51 PM
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  1. Sensonic's Avatar
    I don't see it as dead. Merely evolving.
    I remember the time when Nokia developed and manufactured Symbian phones (before they switched to Windows Phone).
    One of their directors said that they had investigated how often a user changes/replaces his/her phone. The result (average) was every 18 months.
    Well, if Microsoft is not going to release any flagship phone Q2-Q3 / 2016 (or even Q4 / 2016), their market share (or actually what's left of that) will collapse during that period. Only die-hard fans are left after that. Is it still profitable to manufacture (or get them manufactured) phones after that?

    My employer has made a clear decision they'll concentrate on Android devices with our own apps. My former employer made a decision they'll concentrate on Apple devices with their own apps.

    Very few company is still providing apps for Windows Phones. Thank God almost all of those ones which I use (for example "Volvo On Call") have released a Windows Phone version of their app.
    04-26-2016 08:43 AM
  2. Brian Emmerling's Avatar
    No, to the contrary. If you view MS as a hardware company, then yes, you would see all doom and gloom but If you see MS as a software and services company they are riding a lot of success right now.

    1. Mobile Office HUGE SUCCESS (iPhone, android users productivity suite of choice)
    2. Office 365 Online HUGE SUCCESS (chrome OS, Linux users productivity suite of choice)
    3. Bing is the default iPhone search engine and has a 35% (double check that) search engine market share
    4. MS Office newly released keyboard is a huge hit
    5. Outlook is a great app, but yet to catch on.
    04-26-2016 08:56 AM
  3. DeNachtwacht's Avatar
    No, to the contrary. If you view MS as a hardware company, then yes, you would see all doom and gloom but If you see MS as a software and services company they are riding a lot of success right now.

    1. Mobile Office HUGE SUCCESS (iPhone, android users productivity suite of choice)
    2. Office 365 Online HUGE SUCCESS (chrome OS, Linux users productivity suite of choice)
    3. Bing is the default iPhone search engine and has a 35% (double check that) search engine market share
    4. MS Office newly released keyboard is a huge hit
    5. Outlook is a great app, but yet to catch on.
    Don't forget to mention the huge amounts of updates Windows 10 Mobile is getting at this moment. For W10M hardware, yes, 2016 will probably a sad year. But for the software I think it'll be quite the contrary, and hopefully this will result in more and more hardware vendors starting to develop W10M devices.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    04-26-2016 09:16 AM
  4. deezus's Avatar
    I hate to break it to you but windows phone as a competing platform is dead and any hope for a 3rd os is as well. Its apps my friend, have you seen the Google play and ios app stores? I bet even Amazon has a better app store.
    04-26-2016 09:47 AM
  5. cracgor's Avatar
    This is a good argument and where indeed, the grass is not always greened elsewhere. For instance, I have 6 iOS devices at home including an iPad Air 2 and iPhone 6 so I know them very well.
    And W10M is allowing me to have much better / efficient workflow in a lot of cases.

    Some examples :
    • Map : I am using my phone as a GPS when travelling abroad outside of Switzerland : I have offline map with all Europe on my SD card. iOS just got offline map support through Google Map in November and still very limited where you cannot download a whole country and valid only 30 days. Also, I can type from the calendar event an address, navigate to this place, when arriving, it proposes me to store my parking location (with picture and a note). Then, I can navigate back walking. With iOS, clicking on an adress in the calendar launched Apple Map, not Google Map, so you have to copy the address and paste in Goggle Map (where you need to be sure you have the offline map covered). When arriving, you need to use a 3rd party app to store the location. And when returning to your car, you are using this 3rd party app that launched the walking guidance in ... Apple Map...which does not support offline map so y ou are screwed.
    • Social integration : nothing complicated, I have my contact including Facebook, Twitter, Gmail, LinkedIn... information concatenated without any manual work on the contrary of iOS.
    • Camera : if I want to scan something or read a QR code, I just click on the camera hardware button. And from there, I have access to all the applications using the camera. On iOS, you must unlock your phone and then you are lucky if you can find the application between multiple start screen. Also, I can just make a long press from my phone just taken out of my pocket and start filming at 4k. Then, I just extract a 8Mp image out of it so I am sure to never miss a moment. Do that with an iPhone
    • Integration with a PC : like 93% of the PC users, I am using a Windows PC (a Surface Pro 3). Thanks to W10M, I have perfect integration : can send SMS from my PC, have map favorites synchronized, bookmarks, reading list, all Cortana reminders, application settings which are roamed...because I pay and have the SAME application on all my devices. With iOS, you need a Mac but Mac are not tablet so you need also on top a tablet.
    • Continuum : now, I do not need to take my corporate laptop at home anymore. I have Good, Skype for business, Office so I can do all my work on the big screen at home from my phone. I am using a Continuum dock but now, I could just do it in the train from my SP3 that allow me to be used for Continuum as well (because only my phone is configured and authorized to have corporate email through Good). So I save 1,5kg to carry back and forth everyday !
    • Live Tiles + Glance : I do not need like all my iPhone colleagues when they come back at their desk to open their phone just to see the notifications, it is right there on the AMOLED screen. And then, I can pin a boarding pass, a theater thicket, a train ticket and I can have access to it in just one click whereas others have to fiddle to find the application. Same with pinning my favorite contacts like wife and son where I get direct info if they send me a SMS, message, email or post something on a social media


    I could go on and on. Of course, there are some great things on other plateforms. But make no mistake, Windows phone have clearly so clear strong points as well, still unmatched and making them also very efficient. While being secure, consistent, and having timely upgrade and for a long time on the contrary of Android devices.



    I like this example. For instance, my wife as the ZKB bank app (a local bank here). But you need a password to open it (for security reason) so she needs to go in Enpass to retrieve it.
    Unfortunately, it is not allowing transfer within our accounts.

    In the meantime, Windows mobiel does not have app but I am going to Enpass which unlock with Windows Hello and I launched directly the website. I do everything she can do, plus others she cannot with the app, while being quicker.

    So yes, it is fine to have one application for everything but sometimes, the website is as good or better.



    You are using one application per store ???
    I just has one application that I use to store ALL my card information. Seems more convenient for me.



    Thanks god I am not getting a notification each time someone I follow is live on Facebook, jesus...



    I get this letmotiv of the app but at some points, I make me wonder what people are doing with their phone because most of the things where you have no app are things that anyway, would be more convenient to do from a tablet or PC that on a 4,7" screen.
    And a lot of time, the website is just as good as the application as in many cases, you do not need Cortana or Action Center or Share API integration (like your example of Bank app).
    I understand if you didn't comprehend my post. I do not really feel like reexplaining the same words.
    04-26-2016 09:48 AM
  6. 497362's Avatar
    Windows phone is dying, but windows mobile is a juggernaut in the cradle.
    04-26-2016 09:51 AM
  7. ven07's Avatar
    You always wait. People can wait for the iPhone 7, HTC M11, Galaxy S8...
    I never claimed we don't :) I simply meant to indicate that for those of us, who want sth NEW and at the same time want to stick with WP, we'll have to wait longer now..

    I never said the 650/950(XL) were outdated
    04-26-2016 09:57 AM
  8. ClixT's Avatar
    More risk also equals epic fails
    Oh yeah, that's part of it haha
    ven07 likes this.
    04-26-2016 09:59 AM
  9. ClixT's Avatar
    You always wait. People can wait for the iPhone 7, HTC M11, Galaxy S8...

    I do not understand this claim. Lumia 950 or 950XL or 650 are here.
    Compared to the iPhone 6S, it has :
    • wireless charging and quick charging
    • bigger, better (color accuracy), brighter, more contrasty, more defined (higher resolution) AMOLED screen
    • (much) better camera with OIS and hardware button
    • double SIM
    • SD card support
    • thinner when considering a case (because it replaces existing back) and lighter


    You can always wait for the next thing but the current Windows phones are still very competitive, especially considering the price.

    And for the OS itself, W10M has already more features than iOS while iterating at an impressive pace compared to iOS that does not bring much.
    The only real thing missing is extension support in Safari with TouchID like Enpass/LastPass/1Password extension in Safari which is a great feature.
    is it really though? I've been using the 1520 for 2 days now and I can't stand looking at the 950XL's warmer/yellowish screen.. Before I didn't notice it since I was using the 1020, which has similar problems.
    04-26-2016 10:13 AM
  10. alex-kundera's Avatar
    But that's the problem, we have to play the waiting game not for just updates and improvements, but for hoping that the mobile OS doesn't get killed, I know they are releasing new updates and working on the anniversary update, but then what? Nobody knows if Microsoft would launch a new phone, or if they even try something new, and I really don't see people wanting to go out with their phones a display lock an hdmi cable and a keyboard everywhere, nobody really cares for continuum, it's just stupid
    Herein is the main problem - even Windows fans like you, with Lumia 950XL and SP3 on their belt, don't realize that Continuum can be used with Miracast dongles, like the Microsoft Wireless Display Adapter, and it would be plenty sufficient for work on office applications like Excel. So basically, it's a problem of MS's advertising, since they don't keep the professional details for professionals (who would know that a dock and HDMI cable would give them a better frequency) but MS actively makes it more complicated for the average user.

    Their advertising should show a few things:
    1) Lumia 950/XL phone only with a Microsoft Wireless Display Adapter to connect to any TV. (Maybe somebody shown putting them both in his pocket)
    2) Highlight of the main applications being available for both phone and PC: Viber, Skype, freda book reader, Plex, Photos, Netflix,etc
    3) Focus on camera and long exposition of Pureview technology ala Apple.
    ven07 likes this.
    04-26-2016 10:26 AM
  11. nilchak's Avatar
    Well that didn't help much - saying windows fans don't realise the Miracast solution ...
    All you did of the parent posters problem statement
    people wanting to go out with their phones a display lock (dock is what he meant), an hdmi cable and a keyboard everywhere
    is replace the dock with a Miracast adapter. All the rest of the stuff still holds true.

    You do realize that all TV's dont have a Miracast built in - so you still need to plug in the Miracast adapter (like Microsoft diaplay adapter) to the TV or monitor ?
    04-26-2016 11:57 AM
  12. Tsarli's Avatar
    To fans, Windows phone will never be dead. If Windows phone works for you then that's great. I like my Windows phones, but unfortunately it doesn't cater to my personal requirements. I have fun using them occasionally but that's about it. I am sure the platform works great for some, but for others (a lot of others) it just doesn't. Time to move on. No biggie.

    It's only a problem if you make it one.

    Bittah Pupil likes this.
    04-26-2016 12:06 PM
  13. Ivan05il's Avatar
    MS is very zen about this, it's for businesses and enthusiasts, but it's getting increasingly difficult to stay enthusiastic about it. I use an official W10M and it's still too buggy. Suddenly WiFi does not work, the camera won't record, changing roaming options for mobile data leads to a crash, Weather app won't open, ... Sorry, this is just too amateurish. How do they want to attract anybody to the platform with a quality like this. They keep rebooting their OSs, so instead of polishing and improving, they spend too much time on reinventing a wheel and making sure it's really round. I'm disappointed by a turn MS took under Nadella. Pity I have issues with Apple and Google, I would not still be here waiting for I really don't know what. A miracle?
    04-26-2016 12:06 PM
  14. ven07's Avatar
    Suddenly WiFi does not work, the camera won't record, changing roaming options for mobile data leads to a crash, Weather app won't open
    From what I can tell most of these are limited to the fast ring builds (Redstone), so you're on the fast ring?
    RumoredNow likes this.
    04-26-2016 12:12 PM
  15. rromerof's Avatar
    1. MS doesn't do marketing well.. we know
    2. MS openly said that all hardware push (devices) will be done next year with the official launch of RS2
    3. The Surface phone if it exists or will exist, will probably not be the savior of the entire mobile platform

    My opinions
    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Surface Phone the savior? LMAO, I might be wrong, but it would be another W10M device with the latest hardware, it won't be a x86/x64 device. If you really love your device with Windows 10, buy it, as for me I don't, I won't. For me the worst OS of the Windows 10 family.
    04-26-2016 12:13 PM
  16. Maustin02's Avatar
    I think that a big aspect that took me a little bit to grasp and what people are missing is viewing W10 as a true ecosystem. If that is a marketing gimmick they have done well because I believe it lol. I know people will say I have drank the cool-aid and I admit I am a huge Microsoft fan. Before I made the leap to go all Microsoft (surface, 950, and Xboxone) I got one of the first Android phones and it had its issues, and then to an Iphone, and then back to Android. Also, there was so much flack and worries about how android was going to catch up to apples app market. It caught up and is a power house now, granted they were only going up against one market, that I would say was pretty developed. Now Microsoft is having to get into a phone market that is extreamly saturated with different phones, OS, and features. Microsoft has done little marketing overall to show there new phones off and to stand out. I really think Microsoft a successful multi-billion dollar company knew what they were going up against and were not going to strike gold. The phone market is evolving overall. We have the hardware, software, and infrastructure now to allow us to use our phones as viable (some work is needed) day to day computers. I really don't think I will get another surface/laptop once mine dies. My phone can do everything I need and by that time my surface dies my phone will do even more and have a better app market....hopefully. Android might be following in the same uncharted path as Microsoft, check out this article (UWP threat? Google could allow all of Android's apps to directly run on Windows | Windows Central). You have to start some where when deploying everything and some markets will do better than others, like the surface pro 3, 4, and surface book. I will agree that if you look at their phones as a sole product, then yes they are in trouble due to the lack of market interest, app market, and overall diversity of options. But once again I am a fan boy and have drank the cool-aid.
    wmuser likes this.
    04-26-2016 12:14 PM
  17. rromerof's Avatar
    I gave my wife a Windows Device, with official Windows 10 Mobile installed (not from Windows Insider) and I can tell you: Suddenly WiFi does not work, the camera won't record, changing roaming options for mobile data leads to a crash, Weather app fails, apps crash, and, I won't do another Hard Reset I'm "effing" fed up of this crap. That phone will go directly to the garbage, Windows Mobile SUCKS. Now I'm pissed off. I will buy her a new Android/iOS phone whatever she chooses, and we will never look back to Windows Mobile.
    04-26-2016 12:19 PM
  18. Ivan05il's Avatar
    From what I can tell most of these are limited to the fast ring builds (Redstone), so you're on the fast ring?
    No, it's an official build, installed on L1520. When this or other problems happen I turn the phone off and on and it's usable again. Before I could think that WP8.1 isn't popular, but at least it works well for me, now that is not true either. Unpopular and buggy, what a treat.
    04-26-2016 12:21 PM
  19. ven07's Avatar
    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Surface Phone the savior?
    Ok we get the point
    04-26-2016 12:26 PM
  20. ven07's Avatar
    No, it's an official build, installed on L1520. When this or other problems happen I turn the phone off and on and it's usable again. Before I could think that WP8.1 isn't popular, but at least it works well for me, now that is not true either. Unpopular and buggy, what a treat.
    Welp thought those were fixed :/ Proves my point though.. MS can't guarantee full functionality for all, not even on official builds
    04-26-2016 12:28 PM
  21. cracgor's Avatar
    I think that a big aspect that took me a little bit to grasp and what people are missing is viewing W10 as a true ecosystem. If that is a marketing gimmick they have done well because I believe it lol.
    I think UWP ecosystem is like bundled services from the cable company.

    The difference is the apps already exist in Android. So instantly this makes Chrome more powerful. UWP still requires developers to write for Windows PC as a first step. Not saying it has no chance. It is just more work for developers and a little different strategy. One leverages the strength of PC computing to entice developers to write apps that can then be tweaked to put them on Windows Mobile. The other uses the strength of a mobile app store to put mobile apps on the chromebook so people will consider this a viable option.
    ven07 likes this.
    04-26-2016 12:37 PM
  22. Antonht's Avatar
    He wrote that he didn't think it would be a savior ;)
    ven07 likes this.
    04-26-2016 12:46 PM
  23. Ivan05il's Avatar
    MS keeps changing how one develops apps for WP/WM. If I were a serious mobile app developer, I'd be fed up with it by now, especially if the market share is close to nothing. Who's going to guarantee they won't reboot again.
    04-26-2016 12:47 PM
  24. alex-kundera's Avatar
    Well that didn't help much - saying windows fans don't realise the Miracast solution ...
    All you did of the parent posters problem statement

    is replace the dock with a Miracast adapter. All the rest of the stuff still holds true.

    You do realize that all TV's dont have a Miracast built in - so you still need to plug in the Miracast adapter (like Microsoft diaplay adapter) to the TV or monitor ?
    I realize that, but the idea is that it's way simpler because:
    A) it's wireless
    B) it takes less space in your pocket than if you are to put the dock and the hdmi cable
    C) soon it'll work with any win10 PC with RS update (they could market this feature too, maybe after summer)

    My point is, for average consumer, for which the Microsoft stores are made, the wireless Continuum is just enough and works, so why not market it like that only? Let people know it's easy to use, and it's a trend we'll soon all be doing naturally. Professionals will know that the dock offers better connectivity, but for consumer the wireless will work pretty good.

    ----
    Honestly, I've been using the Lumia 735 for the past 10 months, and other than the occasional low cache of the Edge browser (partially b/c of the meagre 8GB storage) and the unresponsiveness from time to time to the Outlook Mail app (terrible on desktop too) the phone works just about right. I've never had any of these problems with wi-fi, hotspot, or any other bug like that. The builds have largely improved battery life and performance, I am 100% sure about this!
    04-26-2016 12:50 PM
  25. cracgor's Avatar
    I realize that, but the idea is that it's way simpler because:
    A) it's wireless
    B) it takes less space in your pocket than if you are to put the dock and the hdmi cable
    C) soon it'll work with any win10 PC with RS update (they could market this feature too, maybe after summer)

    My point is, for average consumer, for which the Microsoft stores are made, the wireless Continuum is just enough and works, so why not market it like that only? Let people know it's easy to use, and it's a trend we'll soon all be doing naturally. Professionals will know that the dock offers better connectivity, but for consumer the wireless will work pretty good.

    ----
    Honestly, I've been using the Lumia 735 for the past 10 months, and other than the occasional low cache of the Edge browser (partially b/c of the meagre 8GB storage) and the unresponsiveness from time to time to the Outlook Mail app (terrible on desktop too) the phone works just about right. I've never had any of these problems with wi-fi, hotspot, or any other bug like that. The builds have largely improved battery life and performance, I am 100% sure about this!
    The reason for the dock with the USB plug is because miracast is slow to respond. I use Miracast to do presenter mode from my Surface and it works fine, but the lag would drive me crazy for moving a mouse on the screen or playing a game. Miracast is not as good if lag is going to matter.
    04-26-2016 01:05 PM
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