08-31-2016 04:16 AM
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  1. a5cent's Avatar
    Which confuses me all the more. So what's the point of UWP????
    I don't know what MS thinks, but IMHO the UWP makes very little sense from a consumer's perspective, for all the reasons you mentioned. That's why it's confusing many people here. Everyone is wondering how this applies to their situation and how UWP will benefit them as consumers. IMHO it won't... at least not in the short term. I agree with you that the theorized app trickle down affect isn't materializing in practice. That can change, but so far it's not happened to a notable degree.
    However, the UWP starts making a lot more sense when viewed from the perspective of corporations with their own software engineering departments and custom built LOB applications. IMHO that's where the UWP's potential actually lies.
    Laura Knotek, tgp, libra89 and 2 others like this.
    08-09-2016 12:17 PM
  2. tgp's Avatar
    But if apps and desktop clients are being developed it means other people find them useful.
    But are they being developed? Sure, there are some coming, but not nearly at the rate they should be, if you go by the 350 million Windows 10 installs. I think almost everyone, at least the fans and maybe Microsoft, expected an explosion of UWP apps by now, a year after Windows 10's official release.

    Personally, I couldn't care less. Been using the web page for every online service I need or want (Facebook, for example) and using an app on desktop makes no sense to me.
    Yep, you and (almost) everyone else. This precisely illustrates why your sentence before this is questionable at best.
    libra89, a5cent, Guytronic and 1 others like this.
    08-09-2016 12:36 PM
  3. ahmedamash's Avatar
    But are they being developed? Sure, there are some coming, but not nearly at the rate they should be, if you go by the 350 million Windows 10 installs. I think almost everyone, at least the fans and maybe Microsoft, expected an explosion of UWP apps by now, a year after Windows 10's official release.



    Yep, you and (almost) everyone else. This precisely illustrates why your sentence before this is questionable at best.
    Yes the idea of uwp is flop,Microsoft is expecting an explosion of uwp in there store but because of less market share and poor reputation in smartphone market developer are not taking it seriously as Microsoft expected.
    08-09-2016 02:25 PM
  4. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Show me usage data on Windows Desktop apps and you may have a real point of view. I've used Windows 8, 8.1 and 10. I don't bother with Windows Desktop apps. I'm sure there's many people like me. Let's not forget those who refuse to upgrade from Windows 7. Why should I use a Windows Desktop app?
    I can't speak to usage data, only my perspective.

    Since moving to Windows 10 on a touchscreen laptop, my App usage on desktop is on the rise. It may be partially fueled by tablet usage habits, but that isn't the whole story. Convenience and ease definitely play a part as well. Don't get me wrong, Mobile has definitely spurred App-centric behaviors, but I also think it has grown beyond Mobile. I believe Windows 10 is leveraging it well.

    Apps I use very often on Desktop:
    • Weather (Searching for a more robust app, most UWP weather Apps let me down in the Live Tile department. I want moar, not less)
    • NOAA High-Def Radar (You'll have to pry this one out of my cold, dead hands.)
    • News (Fast feed.)
    • ISeeVM (Brilliant, get your VVM on desktop.)
    • Cortana (Yes, she's indispensable to me now. I never could be bothered with Google Now, it never engaged me and if it was on my desktop it would probably gather dust... Some might argue Cortana on desktop is not an app, I would argue it is.)
    • Store (Duh, it's where the apps live.)
    • Slack (Prefer it to browser by far.)
    • Snip (Powerful capture and annotate tool.)
    • Polarr Pro and Fotor (Photography editors.)
    • Calculator (The conversions are great too. Handier than a browser tab by far as you lay the app right on top of the work you are doing.)
    • Maps (I do a lot of location research at times and it is great to have the app and sync across devices.)
    • Health Vault (Easier to review on desktop than mobile.)
    • Games (As a casual gamer I'd rather have Apps I can use across different devices than install PC games.)

    Two years ago my App usage on computer was practically nonexistent. Fast forward to today and it is now my habit to reach for Apps. The intelligent cloud is really making the App model worthwhile on PC.
    Guytronic, libra89, a5cent and 2 others like this.
    08-09-2016 02:49 PM
  5. cracgor's Avatar
    I think its a problem of seeing no progress for so long. I don't really think websites report on individual changes to Windows Mobile even because they don't care. Same reason that a lot of times when an app exists for iphone, android, and windows, the commercials only show the first two. As a fan you notice every slight. I'm actually more surprised when anyone cares enough to write that an app is disappearing.
    garak0410 likes this.
    08-09-2016 03:02 PM
  6. garak0410's Avatar
    Yes, some people are pounding on WP. But for most of us fans, especially those who had to move on (most of us Verizon users), we simply don't have a flagship option or there are SOME crucial apps we don't have.

    One major thing for me, across the board with Microsoft...is the problem of abandoned projects and "wait and see" approach to things. I'm a Kinect fan...why the lack of support for it? I loved ROOMS in Windows Phone...they take it out. I loved Bing Food and Drink and entered 100+ recipes...they removed it. They retired Windows Media Center...had to move to PLEX (which is not a bad thing.) They announce HoloLens...where is it? And rumor has it there may not be a consumer version. UWP has over a year to grow...just a handful of apps...and these "bridge" projects just aren't taking hold.

    I am a Verizon User but I inherited a 950xl and would give it a try as a daily driver if I could. I have found website equivalents to many missing apps. The one thing I wish I did have was the backup via Google Photos and Amazon Photos, two very useful apps for me since photo backup with second backups is crucial to me. OneDrive is fine but I like some of the perks of Google and Amazon Photos. There isn't an Amazon ALEXA app for Windows Phone and the Website doesn't work with Edge (saying it is not compatible)...I've also moved to Android Wear on my watch...could I go back to the Band? Perhaps...but Android Wear is actually a quiet surprise and I think the best watch OS out there.

    Bottom line, I could live without some apps and the perk of Android Wear to return to the less chaotic world of WP and Live Tiles.
    Last edited by garak0410; 08-09-2016 at 05:38 PM.
    libra89 and RumoredNow like this.
    08-09-2016 03:11 PM
  7. owensdj's Avatar
    I don't know what MS thinks, but IMHO the UWP makes very little sense from a consumer's perspective, for all the reasons you mentioned...
    So you don't think consumers can benefit from having the same applications and experience running on all of their devices? You're not going to get that with Apple or Google.
    08-09-2016 04:07 PM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    So you don't think consumers can benefit from having the same applications and experience running on all of their devices? You're not going to get that with Apple or Google.
    It's not a matter of thinking. I know. You're conflating two things that aren't necessarily related.

    There is absolutely no benefit to consumers, whatsoever, from having the same application (in terms of source code) running across multiple form factors. That's a software engineering related technicality. For consumers that has absolutely no value in and of itself.

    Providing the same experience across form factors is of value to consumers. However, there is no law in software engineering that states we must have the same OS and the same application (in terms of source code) running across multiple form factors to deliver that same experience. That is achievable regardless. That's merely a matter money and time. Many of MS' own apps, which are available across many different OSes and form factors, exemplify this. The UWP isn't at all unique in making similar experiences across form factors possible. It's unique only in its ability to make such goals more affordable to achieve (and even then only within the Windows ecosystem). Nothing more!

    That's exactly why the UWP is a feature for developers. Consumers may some day indirectly benefit from the UWP, but only if MS' Windows based ecosystem generates enough demand for those apps. In that case the UWP will simply make it more affordable for developers to meet that demand. Nothing more!

    Unfortunately, that's where this all falls apart. MS' problem has little to do with the cost of app development, and a lot do with the lack of demand. Unfortunately, ever since the release of WP7, MS has only ever focused on the former rather than the later. That's why I've been saying for years now, that MS has always been approaching this from the wrong angle.
    Last edited by a5cent; 08-10-2016 at 01:40 AM.
    libra89, Guytronic and N_LaRUE like this.
    08-09-2016 05:17 PM
  9. mark233's Avatar
    ... reading thru a lot of this I started thinking --- the ONLY app that I use that's installed on my desktop and Windows device is Package Tracker from ITECTURE.consulting. I do a lot of online shopping and this app is fantastic. I can copy tracking numbers via my desktop Outlook shipping info, paste in the Package Tracker app and viola -- I can get notifications of status on my phone while away from my desktop ... it SYNCs wonderfully.
    Guytronic and libra89 like this.
    08-09-2016 05:26 PM
  10. Baemir's Avatar
    English isn't my native tongue, I hope I can make myself understood.

    If you ask me, bandwagoning is likely the main factor behind this phenomenon. I'm no Microsoft fanboy, quite the opposite actually. I don't like Microsoft very much. However I think W10M ironically feels much less anti-consumer than iOS (which is so closed and so politically correct in every sense that it makes me feel like a complete tool for using it) and Android (which has become a data-farming, stagnant, sad example of planned obsolescence). W10M is visually appealing, quite functional and always kept up to date. But due to questionable moves by Google and Apple (similar to those Microsoft employed in the past), it didn't catch on, and now the contemporary pseudo-journalist hivemind has decided it is the devil itself in the form of a mobile OS. They do that with a lot of things and I believe it's just one more visible symptom of the end of journalistic integrity and professionalism. The masses usually don't question something they have read on multiple websites, and so the hivemind grows.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    08-10-2016 12:43 AM
  11. vezycash's Avatar
    my x535 had make me cry many times .
    Bought one for my mum last year, it made me regret doing so. I never knew of phantom touch issues until I bought it. It's a pity the 640 is only sold for cheap in US, maybe canada.
    08-10-2016 02:12 AM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    The masses usually don't question something they have read on multiple websites, and so the hivemind grows.
    too simple.

    MS is not just a victim of the media hive mind, although that is certainly one component. More than anyone else, it is MS themselves who screwed up though.

    First and foremost by assuming (for too long) that the PC would remain at the centre of everyone's computing experience. It's hard to decide what the second biggest blunder was. There is so much to choose from. Possibly it was MS' utter failure to innovate. WM6.x was stagnant for years, which lead to a crisis induced explosion of innovation with WP7, only for them to revert back to stagnation, more often than not removing innovative ideas from the OS, rather than improving, building upon, or adding to them.
    N_LaRUE, Guytronic and libra89 like this.
    08-10-2016 02:15 AM
  13. ahmedamash's Avatar
    Bought one for my mum last year, it made me regret doing so. I never knew of phantom touch issues until I bought it. It's a pity the 640 is only sold for cheap in US, maybe canada.
    Yeah, the touch of my 535 is crazy Microsoft said its a software but thats the cheap touch panel used by Microsoft for increasing their profit, I recently brought new 640xl thats the best phone i ever got now i am happy using it as my daily driver.
    vezycash likes this.
    08-10-2016 02:42 AM
  14. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I can't speak to usage data, only my perspective.

    Since moving to Windows 10 on a touchscreen laptop, my App usage on desktop is on the rise. It may be partially fueled by tablet usage habits, but that isn't the whole story. Convenience and ease definitely play a part as well. Don't get me wrong, Mobile has definitely spurred App-centric behaviors, but I also think it has grown beyond Mobile. I believe Windows 10 is leveraging it well.

    Apps I use very often on Desktop:
    • Weather (Searching for a more robust app, most UWP weather Apps let me down in the Live Tile department. I want moar, not less)
    • NOAA High-Def Radar (You'll have to pry this one out of my cold, dead hands.)
    • News (Fast feed.)
    • ISeeVM (Brilliant, get your VVM on desktop.)
    • Cortana (Yes, she's indispensable to me now. I never could be bothered with Google Now, it never engaged me and if it was on my desktop it would probably gather dust... Some might argue Cortana on desktop is not an app, I would argue it is.)
    • Store (Duh, it's where the apps live.)
    • Slack (Prefer it to browser by far.)
    • Snip (Powerful capture and annotate tool.)
    • Polarr Pro and Fotor (Photography editors.)
    • Calculator (The conversions are great too. Handier than a browser tab by far as you lay the app right on top of the work you are doing.)
    • Maps (I do a lot of location research at times and it is great to have the app and sync across devices.)
    • Health Vault (Easier to review on desktop than mobile.)
    • Games (As a casual gamer I'd rather have Apps I can use across different devices than install PC games.)

    Two years ago my App usage on computer was practically nonexistent. Fast forward to today and it is now my habit to reach for Apps. The intelligent cloud is really making the App model worthwhile on PC.
    Interesting.

    I think the difference here is that you use a tablet and then transferred your habits to your PC. I think that would be an interesting way for MS to approach things but the sad reality is that most people fire up a PC to do certain tasks. Few think about desktop apps and whether they're useful for them.

    With PC sales stagnant I think the bigger issue is getting people back on to a PC experience with desktop apps. Those who still use PCs on a daily basis would typically use them for their power and because they have software that they like. I think this is where the UWP idea kind of fails. Unless you're all in with Windows 10 it really doesn't work.

    To me, and this is purely my personal take, the biggest mistake MS made was going back to a desktop look with Windows 10. If you want people use and view apps on a PC the interface has to be different. Having a desktop isn't an app friendly environment to me. Bringing back the Start menu was a huge mistake in my opinion. All it does is hide the benefits of Windows 10. It hides the tiles. It's not a modern OS look in my eyes. I think they were going the right way with the look of Windows 8 and 8.1. Windows 10 to me is backwards.

    Anyway, let's see what happens maybe I'm wrong.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    08-10-2016 03:07 AM
  15. Narathan's Avatar
    Interesting.
    To me, and this is purely my personal take, the biggest mistake MS made was going back to a desktop look with Windows 10. If you want people use and view apps on a PC the interface has to be different. Having a desktop isn't an app friendly environment to me. Bringing back the Start menu was a huge mistake in my opinion.
    Even though I agree, considering the gigantic backlash Windows 8 got from consumers I understand why they went back to the oldskool start menu and desktop. Windows 8 was too complex for it's time (I know that sounds weird, but people don't like change).

    IMHO, once the 32 bit programs die out or get turned into store apps, only then will people realize the benefit of UWP. It's easier to update, probably a lot harder to crack and hopefully beter to manage. It reminds me a bit of MacOS, where entire programs are just sitting in their own container (DMG I believe?). Ofcourse I could be wrong since my last experience with Apple was 6 years ago.

    But coming back to Windows 10 Mobile... There's two personal reasons I'm having trouble with the platform and maybe one of the two are shared with a lot of you. The first problem is unexplainable bugs. For example, some of my live tiles update all the time, yet others update after TWELVE HOURS... and some simply refuse to update. And this is after checking the battery saver and background running etc. I can resize the tile and it refreshes for a while, but it stops eventually. This is just sloppy, I don't care who's fault it is. Why are other tiles refreshing without a problem? shouldn't this be top priority? Live tiles are what makes the OS special and half of them don't even work.

    The second problem is that the development team seems very, how do you say it nicely... Enthusiastic? They don't communicate well. Some of their support staff tell us anniversary update was supposed to drop on august 9th, then Dona and another engineer tell people not to believe everything on the internet. Then they don't tell us when the anniversary update is supposed to land? Not even an explanation!

    Look, I absolutely love Windows and Mobile and I'd love to see them gain traction, recognition and all that positive jazz. But they NEED to fix their way of interacting with the userbase. I've done several leadership courses over the years and the most important thing I've learned is that you need to give feedback to your people. If somebody informs me of a problem they've encountered and, after I fixed it, don't tell them I've fixed it... Well, guess what? They will feel neglected and maybe don't even know I've fixed it in the first place, so they get angry with me for "not listening to them". Same goes for explaining why stuff is broken or delayed. If Dona replies with a cryptic "Once its done, we'll let you know ;)" I can understand that people, including me, don't feel like they're being taken seriously.

    I think it all boils down to communication at this point. They "promised" that every WP8.1 device would get W10M. Halfway the preview, they dropped support on older devices because they simply didn't have the hardware to power the resource-heavier W10M. It makes perfect sense, its good they did... But they should've never claimed that every WP8.1 device was going to get W10M. And even if they never claimed it, the media completely ripped them to shreds over this. Microsoft seriously needs to choose their wording differently and stop being vague. If you say "maybe" people will see it as "yes" and get disappointed if it turns out to be a "no". If you'd say "it depends on certain aspects, details follow", and then they could explain their reasoning for, let's say, removing certain phones from the RS1 upgrade. It's got to do with hardware but they never really explained their philosophy behind that decision, leaving people guessing and making false claims as "they don't care" or "they're forcing us to upgrade!"

    If I had a say in it, I would tell Microsoft to launch a dedicated blog section where the process of development was being discussed. There's no shame in telling what obstacles you ran into. You've got insiders that have programming skills, maybe they can help you figure something out. Same goes for UX/UI designers that share a different vision and maybe even inspire some of the designers at Microsoft. They keep saying they are creating the best OS together with the people that use it. Hmm. Can't say I feel the same way with how Mobile is being made. Why is there no equalizer on third party phones for example, while every phone on the planet that runs iOS or Android does? even WP7 had this feature. People have been asking for this feature since WP8.0 and as of yet, only the Lumia phones seem to have this.

    Let's just hope Mobile gets some much needed love soon. I'm so frustrated that I have to switch back to android again because of missed phone calls, email that don't arrive on time, live tiles that hang or black screens and reboots that I have to suffer from. I love tinkering but I hate it when people get angry with me because they can't communicate with me.

    It's all about communication if you ask me. Sorry for the long rant. I'm all out of coffee.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    08-10-2016 04:49 AM
  16. Bobvfr's Avatar
    What about this idea called Continuum, currently my 950XL and Surface Pro 3 are sitting on my desktop next to my desktop.

    My desktop is in desktop mode, my SP3 in tablet mode so although I can get to the desktop if I want to, it is now (Since the Anniversary update) giving me a really good tablet experience and my phone is showing the standard phone view.

    Yet on all of these devices I have a core of the same apps, all linked to my cloud account so have pretty much the same data so I can seamlessly (Almost) go from one device to the other without thinking.

    As to apps on desktops, I wouldn't be without them, sure on my phone I have a BT (That's British Telecom) mobile app, but I don't have that on my desktop or SP3, but their Wi-Fi app is on my phone and SP3, but again I don't carry my desktop around much so didn't put it on there.

    Yes on my desktop I have a "Program" called Adobe Elements that isn't on my other devices, but in general I would always choose a decent UWP over a standard (8.1 type) for most things.

    OK I tend to stick with the MS supplied apps like People, Groove Mail, Office and now the Skype preview, but Huetro, Star walk 2, Netflix, ToView, Tunein Radio, Accuweather, are on all my devices and I think MS have got it pretty right the way W10 is going (With of course the usual disclaimer that they still have loads to get right yet). And although I log into my bank account on my desktop using the browser and a mobile app on my phone, I would still download the app to the SP3 and desktop if it became a UWP for simple stuff like a quick peak at my balance.

    EDIT: I forgot, YES I also want Skype UWP, Huetro, Skywalk, and others on my Xbox One as well, I already use Netflix and Tunein Radio so why not Maps, so I could show my wife a route without her having to stand over my back at the PC.
    Last edited by Bobvfr; 08-10-2016 at 05:18 AM.
    RumoredNow and Mach_E like this.
    08-10-2016 04:56 AM
  17. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    ^ As I already pointed out, those who are 'all in' it works for them because they transfer between them but how many people who use a PC own a WP or Surface device? That was my main point. Most who use Windows for 'when they need to' don't care about desktop apps.

    As for Continuum, again, an 'all in' person benefits the most.

    It's like an 'all in' on Apple or and 'all in' on Google. Each is a bit different but similar.
    08-10-2016 05:19 AM
  18. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Even though I agree, considering the gigantic backlash Windows 8 got from consumers I understand why they went back to the oldskool start menu and desktop. Windows 8 was too complex for it's time (I know that sounds weird, but people don't like change).

    IMHO, once the 32 bit programs die out or get turned into store apps, only then will people realize the benefit of UWP. It's easier to update, probably a lot harder to crack and hopefully beter to manage. It reminds me a bit of MacOS, where entire programs are just sitting in their own container (DMG I believe?). Ofcourse I could be wrong since my last experience with Apple was 6 years ago.
    Never used Apple products so can't say much there.

    As for Windows 8/8.1, I agree totally that they were a big change and I know people have this issue with change. However, I think it was more to do with the way the shift between desktop and Start screen worked rather than anything else.

    Instead of thinking 'desktop' just think 'interface'. Though I know it's not easily achieved but my thought was that the desktop should be changed completely. Think more like a 'space' for programs to run in their own 'window' rather than it being on the desktop. Think of the desktop not exiting at all. No icons. Your launching is through the tiles. The Start menu, if you want to call it that, is the tile interface. It swipes in from top or bottom or side. It's configured how you want it. Same for notifications. Apps are just that, apps regardless.

    That was my thinking. It may seem a bit out there, but so was a tablet not too long ago.
    a5cent likes this.
    08-10-2016 05:29 AM
  19. Bobvfr's Avatar
    ^ As I already pointed out, those who are 'all in' it works for them because they transfer between them but how many people who use a PC own a WP or Surface device? That was my main point. Most who use Windows for 'when they need to' don't care about desktop apps.

    As for Continuum, again, an 'all in' person benefits the most.

    It's like an 'all in' on Apple or and 'all in' on Google. Each is a bit different but similar.
    So don't use them, but the world is changing and sitting in a Windows 7 world whilst the rest move to mobile and tablet (And I still think the desktop has many uses, that's why I have one) is a dead end and that is what MS cannot afford to do.
    08-10-2016 05:56 AM
  20. ahmedamash's Avatar
    When i install windows 8.1 from my 7 i fell new and refreshing design it take time to get to use of it i think people are not ready for it and it does not get popular as win 7 was thats why microsoft again stick to basic with win 10.

    Thats what I think maybe it would be wrong.
    08-10-2016 06:28 AM
  21. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    So don't use them, but the world is changing and sitting in a Windows 7 world whilst the rest move to mobile and tablet (And I still think the desktop has many uses, that's why I have one) is a dead end and that is what MS cannot afford to do.
    I have W10 at home for my two laptops and SP3.

    At work I use W7 as do a lot of people. Some are still on Xp at work. Can't do much about that.

    Though we've sort of shifted from the original OP, the question was about using UWP as a means of gaining developer support. Which brought about the question of desktop apps and how many people use them as this is the main way in which to attract developers. The point was that many people who use a PC probably don't use desktop apps or UWP apps.

    My point is that if you're an 'all in' person with the Windows platform, you're more likely to use UWP apps. Thing is not many people are 'all in'.

    That was all. I know things are changing. They've been changing since I started using computers over three decades ago.
    a5cent likes this.
    08-10-2016 06:29 AM
  22. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Maybe I am more "Wired" for the way MS is going, in 1997 I started a "FirstClass" server in a small community, at the start it was email and conferencing and online single or group live chatting, my users downloaded the "Client" software, but all the emails and conferencing were held on the server (It wasn't called the cloud then), you could of course sync stuff to your PC for offline. It became much more, users could use a "Document" and type in it and it rendered as a web page, store stuff from their PC to the server, their PC died, no problem, just download the client to another PC and off you go, can't do that, just sign in on the web from anywhere in the world (And yes you could use mobiles but way before smart phones).

    I shut it down several years ago for many reasons.

    Here we are in 2016 and MS (And especially Skype) are only just catching up (Still nowhere compared to FC when it comes to ease of producing web pages and sharing them without having to send links etc) but finally I am beginning to feel like I have proper interconnected services again.

    Even for the folks who aren't "All in" I think you are very wrong to dismiss the cloud and UWP's, people who walk into PC World (UK electrical supplier) for a new PC, laptop, tablet, and in time a pocket PC (Phone) don't want complicated, they want apps, easy download, run across devices and the web, click and go (Anywhere), PC dies, no worry you haven't lost anything as it's all there on the servers (How many people did a full backup before their last major update, be honest).

    Even my wife who only has to touch a PC for it to die, can file in a filing cabinet but hasn't got a clue when it comes to a computer (Files spread everywhere, never a chance of finding anything) can see the simplicity of her 830, Surface Pro and Xbox One working with the cloud and UWP's.

    Yes there are going to be some people who only want proper "Programs" and data only stored on their PC, but again it comes back to choice, and as far as I can see, you can still work that way if you want.
    Last edited by Bobvfr; 08-10-2016 at 07:06 AM.
    a5cent likes this.
    08-10-2016 06:53 AM
  23. Bobvfr's Avatar
    And yes we have wandered a bit from the OP, but this is where I really believe MS can jump ahead (OK on Skype they have tried there hardest to go backwards so many times) and I think Windows on phones is potentially now ahead of the rest and still has a very good chance, people will still hate it, but who cares, if Nokia die hards, Android and Apple users don't like where MS is going, if they get it wrong (And I don't think they have this time) we will move on, the future is coming whether we like it or not.
    08-10-2016 07:06 AM
  24. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Maybe I am more "Wired" for the way MS is going, in 1997 I started a "FirstClass" server in a small community, at the start it was email and conferencing and online single or group live chatting, my users downloaded the "Client" software, but all the emails and conferencing were held on the server (It wasn't called the cloud then), you could of course sync stuff to your PC for offline. It became much more, users could use a "Document" and type in it and it rendered as a web page, store stuff from their PC to the server, their PC died, no problem, just download the client to another PC and off you go, can't do that, just sign in on the web from anywhere in the world (And yes you could use mobiles but way before smart phones).

    I shut it down several years ago for many reasons.

    Here we are in 2016 and MS (And especially Skype) are only just catching up (Still nowhere compared to FC when it comes to ease of producing web pages and sharing them without having to send links etc) but finally I am beginning to feel like I have proper interconnected services again.

    Even for the folks who aren't "All in" I think you are very wrong to dismiss the cloud and UWP's, people who walk into PC World (UK electrical supplier) for a new PC, laptop, tablet, and in time a pocket PC (Phone) don't want complicated, they want apps, easy download, run across devices and the web, click and go (Anywhere), PC dies, no worry you haven't lost anything as it's all there on the servers (How many people did a full backup before their last major update, be honest).

    Even my wife who only has to touch a PC for it to die, can file in a filing cabinet but hasn't got a clue when it comes to a computer (Files spread everywhere, never a chance of finding anything) can see the simplicity of her 830, Surface Pro and Xbox One working with the cloud and UWP's.

    Yes there are going to be some people who only want proper "Programs" and data only stored on their PC, but again it comes back to choice, and as far as I can see, you can still work that way if you want.
    Just to be clear, I have nothing against the cloud or UWP. I use 'the cloud'. I have my own NAS which is cloud enabled. I also use Onedrive and Google Drive. My photos are backed up automatically to Google Photos, which I can also access via Chrome browser anywhere in the world so long as I'm logged in. So I do understand the power of 'the cloud' and the ideas behind UWP.

    I think you missed my point though. If you're all in working with Windows 10, you're likely to benefit the most out of UWP. However, if you have a Windows 10 PC, an iPhone and say a Android tablet you're less likely to see the benefits of UWP and less likely to use Windows desktop apps. That's what I meant by 'all in'.

    Most people these days will use cloud services to some extent because they have a smartphone and/or a tablet. Though some may appreciate it more than others. A lot of people use Apple products and use their cloud services across their devices because Apple likes it that way.

    To some, a PC is used at work and a smartphone majority of the rest. It's the reason why PC sales have floundered and tablet sales are not as great as they used to be.

    MS needs to change the image of the PC and what it means for their ideas to work. That means changing perception of what computing is and how it's used. That's going to take a lot of time. Part of the problem is getting companies on board and getting them onto W10. Until that happens I think it will continue to be a lukewarm reception by most people.

    Also, just FYI, I live in the UK. :)
    a5cent likes this.
    08-10-2016 07:16 AM
  25. 535dinesh's Avatar
    I switched from Windows phone to android just bcoz there was no quality app in store. Again its about quality and not about quantity. Few examples where Twitter, Uber, Ola, imobile, Amazon. These are all daily necessary apps
    08-10-2016 07:27 AM
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