12-27-2016 01:18 PM
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  1. Christopher Lindsay's Avatar
    Ok, so I looked at my phone and from what I can see you're correct that there are differences for what the settings "path" is. However, it does seem logical to me to have a dropdown menu in some cases, and in others it makes more sense not to have it. If I'm opening maps for example, do I want a menu up top or do I want to use the screen real estate for the map? On the other hand, if I'm in a different app I might have enough area to have the drop down instead. So that makes sense to me and it doesn't annoy me in the least. I'm basically faced with looking at the top of the screen or at the bottom. Very easy alternatives.
    It doesn't particularly matter if you think they are easy alternatives. What anyone thinks has nothing to do with the fact that it is not a consistent design. This is not an opinion statement.

    12-25-2016 01:18 PM
  2. Christopher Lindsay's Avatar
    Text selection I checked on Outlook, messenger, calendar and Edge. All single-tap. In addition, once the text is selected in those it's all the same icon that pops up. So again I'm not seeing an issue (as they're in this case identical).
    Try Word and then try the messaging app. To select the whole word in one it takes a double tap and to select the whole word in the other it takes a single tap. Both are stock Microsoft apps.

    xandros9 likes this.
    12-25-2016 01:23 PM
  3. Christopher Lindsay's Avatar
    It's not a clear sign. Many companies outsource support. Sometimes it's 100% transparent, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's called Company X Support, but really you end up in a call center in India or wherever.
    Except... Microsoft handles all of their support first hand but Windows phone. Windows phone was handled through them and now that has changed concurrently with Microsoft admitting to not making any more Lumia phones and also admitting to cancel other planned phones. I know first hand as my 950 is not my first Lumia. Microsoft gave me a new phone with ease when I had my 1520. No issues at all. Handing it off is a clear sign it's done with it.

    Ok, well if Groove is acting up I'd agree that's an instability, but it's not necessarily a platform instability. I use computers for work all week, and an instability in the platform is vastly different from one that is app-centric. If the problem is the platform then you typically see the instability in the apps that live 'on top of it', and it'll be a widespread issue. If I'm on a computer with issues, and say for example that there's an issue with memory management and access, then any app using memory (all) will be subject to instability. If the issue with the platform has to do with multi-threading then again any multi-threaded app will suffer. But I do have experiences with instability of some softwares on some OS where it's limited to that software. I'll run one software perfectly and another has issues. While it's possible that an app can be coded in a way that it doesn't expose a platform issue surely we should expect a lot of instability in general if the platform was unstable.

    So, in my experience, there is little to suggest that the Windows 10 Mobile Operating System is suffering from instability. I do not dispute however that some individual apps have that problem though. The difference is very important.
    A lot of these Microsoft apps exist on other platforms in better states. Whether it's the app or the OS the problem is exclusive to Windows phones.

    That's obviously not true. In addition to that my experience with my LG G2X was two updates. Period. Over its life time. Talk about 'abandon-ware'.

    Nope. I've had my 950 since August and have had several updates. And it's nonsense to complain about insider/preview versions breaking things because the sole purpose of those versions is to find bugs and eradicate them before the official public releases.
    I was not complaining about the preview program. Just making an observation. Also if you are in the preview program you can't really say there are a lot of regular updates, now can you? Lastly sucks about your lg phone but it's a matter of opinion on how much abandonment counts I guess. I know that W10M is over a year old and has a lot of the same bugs since day 1 right now (feel free to blame the OS or the apps but it doesn't matter really when Microsoft controls both) so to me that's abandonment.

    Again, 'no', plenty of users that are satisfied are NOT talking about waiting for anything but are instead pointing out what works very well for them NOW. I am one of those users and I'm far from the only one. People have been saying MS is done with mobile but they keep releasing updates, so until they officially kill off the OS etc it's really not abandoned. If and when a Surface Phone shows up we'll see just what it does and how. If it runs mobile then it proves they're not done, and if it doesn't it'll likely do regular win on ARM in which case the "app gap" can be greatly questioned.
    Seriously though? Windows central posted an article about a surface phone possibility this week lol. Something along the same lines as your retort. How it's going to be a new category of device because it's using full windows on arm but it's not actually here so we have to WAIT for it. How exactly is that not talking about waiting for a Surface Phone again?

    You're fine. At least you spaced it out (which makes it easier to read).
    I broke up my posts just for you lol.
    Last edited by xandros9; 12-25-2016 at 09:33 PM. Reason: merging posts
    xandros9 likes this.
    12-25-2016 01:29 PM
  4. libra89's Avatar
    I broke up my posts just for you lol.
    Haha thanks but you're fine.
    12-25-2016 02:46 PM
  5. Nate W's Avatar
    @Christopher Lindsay, what makes what you have posted have any credibility? Or is all of this just opinion?
    12-25-2016 03:09 PM
  6. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    You trolling?
    Why don't you calm down buddy.

    Where's the clipboard in the second picture? How have you never noticed this?
    http://i.imgur.com/mTWKZsy.jpg
    No, I've never noticed that because I've never highlighted text in a search box with the intent of copying that word.

    Having said that, I now went back and checked it in messenger, outlook and Courtana (since it was in the search box you found the discrepancy), and in those three I get the clipboard. In calendar I'm not sure where the search field would be, so I couldn't check it, and in Edge I get the clipboard when I type in the address field.

    So, what app are you looking at there? I can't figure out which one it is by looking at the image (sorry).

    Just for fun I'll throw this one in the too. Go to any Facebook group and try to write a post in it from Edge.
    http://i.imgur.com/2BuGuDk.jpg
    This bug has been here for so long it's shameful.
    What are we supposed to see in that image that is missing - or, conversely, what is there that shouldn't be there? I use the Facebook app and if I "try to write a post in it" it works.
    12-25-2016 03:34 PM
  7. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    It doesn't particularly matter if you think they are easy alternatives. What anyone thinks has nothing to do with the fact that it is not a consistent design. This is not an opinion statement.
    I never said that my opinion makes a fact not a fact. I acknowledged that there was a difference, and then I merely pointed out that to me it in some cases makes sense.

    Now, ask yourself why you'd bother pointing out the fact that the design is inconsistent. Let's say I point out that the Lumia 950 has a battery. Is there a point to that? Surely there must be a context within which we can find a point to mentioning it. Same with mentioning the inconsistency. So I would say that the logical thing to do is to first figure out if it is correct that the design is inconsistent (it is, we verified that), because if it isn't, then the point is moot, and the second thing to do is to then move on and talk about whether or not it matters that there is a difference. And at that point we really are back to talking about opinion.

    So just as you having implied yours, I stated mine. I thought it was crystal clear that that's what I was doing.

    Try Word and then try the messaging app. To select the whole word in one it takes a double tap and to select the whole word in the other it takes a single tap. Both are stock Microsoft apps.
    Yepp, that appears to be the case. (btw, you don't have to post pictures of the above since it's impossible to know if you actually single- or double-tapped to select)

    So I guess what we have here is a difference of opinion regarding just how 'severe' the 'issue' of design inconsistencies are. To me it doesn't matter all that much if in the one app I have to double-tap and most others (that I've checked so far) I single tap, and if the settings are found in one out of two places. It's simply not a big enough issue for me to feel it needs (or choose the words) "serious polishing". To me, "serious polishing" would probably be far more (to me) significant issues.

    Except... Microsoft handles all of their support first hand but Windows phone. Windows phone was handled through them and now that has changed concurrently with Microsoft admitting to not making any more Lumia phones and also admitting to cancel other planned phones. I know first hand as my 950 is not my first Lumia. Microsoft gave me a new phone with ease when I had my 1520. No issues at all. Handing it off is a clear sign it's done with it.
    Which phones were canceled and when?

    And you and I are obviously viewing outsourcing support very differently. You call it a clear sign, and I don't. For example, just because MS might not release future Lumia phones does not mean that a) other vendors won't or that b) MS won't release phones with different branding but still Win10Mobile.

    A lot of these Microsoft apps exist on other platforms in better states. Whether it's the app or the OS the problem is exclusive to Windows phones.
    If you say so. I honestly can't tell. My last phone was an Android and it was horrible when I ditched it. Now, I could blame the OS, I could blame Google, or I could blame the phone. I suppose the basic question is if it matters who you blame and what you say (?). I think it does matter.

    In my case the phone got a whopping two updates over several years. It was a G2X on T-Mobile, made by LG. The last update made it into a horrible sluggish mess. With newly included stock apps such as Google+ and once I'd installed Facebook it was essentially unusable. Google+ couldn't be uninstalled so I had to nuke everything and rebuild the earlier version. Then it worked for another year or two and then it just turned to crap. So, who do I blame? Well, I could blame Google, but honestly it wasn't their fault I think. The blame goes to a) LG for not supporting the phone better, and for it eventually just not performing well, and b) to me for updating the OS (the first time). So me ditching Android is something I didn't do because of Google, or because the OS was crap. In fact, I'm sure the OS on new powerful phones is probably pretty great.

    So, here I'd apply the same line of thinking. We can't really blame an OS maker for poorly programmed apps by third-parties. Fine, you can come to the conclusion that one shouldn't pick the mobile OS because third party producers aren't putting in enough effort. I can understand that argument, but that's a different thing from complaining about the OS itself, and it matters if users actually don't end up with those poorly designed apps.

    So again, in my case, I haven't stumbled upon third-party apps with tremendous problems, and neither stock apps with severe problems. This is probably because I tend to use few third-party apps. But if I were to listen to some views here, and especially considering how they are phrased, I could possibly have been convinced not to get a 950 because my impression would wrongly have been that I wouldn't have been happy with the phone and OS.

    Words matter.
    Shamshi-Adad likes this.
    12-25-2016 04:01 PM
  8. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    .........Words matter.
    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
    Lumia ICON [Win10M 14977.1000] Sportster
    Even when I lose, I win.
    12-25-2016 04:06 PM
  9. Guytronic's Avatar
    Let's take a break here and enjoy the day.
    Thanks all I'll reopen this later.

    Edit:
    Thread open.
    Please feel free to continue.
    Last edited by Guytronic; 12-25-2016 at 06:52 PM.
    12-25-2016 04:10 PM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Let's take a break here and enjoy the day.
    Thanks all I'll reopen this later.

    Edit:
    Thread open.
    Please feel free to continue.

    Shall I fire another volley across the bow? Let's keep it real, none of them are as "pristine" as they claim to be, Microsoft included.

    Forbes Welcome
    12-25-2016 08:08 PM
  11. Guytronic's Avatar
    Trubblemaker :)
    Please do go on...
    12-25-2016 08:12 PM
  12. Christopher Lindsay's Avatar
    @Christopher Lindsay, what makes what you have posted have any credibility? Or is all of this just opinion?
    I do not understand your question. The credit is in the picture examples.

    Why don't you calm down buddy.



    No, I've never noticed that because I've never highlighted text in a search box with the intent of copying that word.

    Having said that, I now went back and checked it in messenger, outlook and Courtana (since it was in the search box you found the discrepancy), and in those three I get the clipboard. In calendar I'm not sure where the search field would be, so I couldn't check it, and in Edge I get the clipboard when I type in the address field.

    So, what app are you looking at there? I can't figure out which one it is by looking at the image (sorry).



    What are we supposed to see in that image that is missing - or, conversely, what is there that shouldn't be there? I use the Facebook app and if I "try to write a post in it" it works.
    In edge you only get the clipboard in the address box but not on actual website content. Sometimes it won't even let you highlight some websites text. In the FB picture you see I'm pressing a letter but there is no text. No matter what you type edge is unable to type any text at all into a fb group post. As far as "calm down". It was a question since I wasn't sure if you were trolling me or if you seriously never notice these pretty obvious inconsistencies that I would expect anyone to see. With this said these are only a few I've noticed. There's a bunch of them all throughout the OS. I can point out plenty more problems with the OS but in all honesty if you read the threads around here they're not hidden and are pretty well known.

    I never said that my opinion makes a fact not a fact. I acknowledged that there was a difference, and then I merely pointed out that to me it in some cases makes sense.

    Now, ask yourself why you'd bother pointing out the fact that the design is inconsistent. Let's say I point out that the Lumia 950 has a battery. Is there a point to that? Surely there must be a context within which we can find a point to mentioning it. Same with mentioning the inconsistency. So I would say that the logical thing to do is to first figure out if it is correct that the design is inconsistent (it is, we verified that), because if it isn't, then the point is moot, and the second thing to do is to then move on and talk about whether or not it matters that there is a difference. And at that point we really are back to talking about opinion.

    So just as you having implied yours, I stated mine. I thought it was crystal clear that that's what I was doing.



    Yepp, that appears to be the case. (btw, you don't have to post pictures of the above since it's impossible to know if you actually single- or double-tapped to select)

    So I guess what we have here is a difference of opinion regarding just how 'severe' the 'issue' of design inconsistencies are. To me it doesn't matter all that much if in the one app I have to double-tap and most others (that I've checked so far) I single tap, and if the settings are found in one out of two places. It's simply not a big enough issue for me to feel it needs (or choose the words) "serious polishing". To me, "serious polishing" would probably be far more (to me) significant issues.



    Which phones were canceled and when?

    And you and I are obviously viewing outsourcing support very differently. You call it a clear sign, and I don't. For example, just because MS might not release future Lumia phones does not mean that a) other vendors won't or that b) MS won't release phones with different branding but still Win10Mobile.



    If you say so. I honestly can't tell. My last phone was an Android and it was horrible when I ditched it. Now, I could blame the OS, I could blame Google, or I could blame the phone. I suppose the basic question is if it matters who you blame and what you say (?). I think it does matter.

    In my case the phone got a whopping two updates over several years. It was a G2X on T-Mobile, made by LG. The last update made it into a horrible sluggish mess. With newly included stock apps such as Google+ and once I'd installed Facebook it was essentially unusable. Google+ couldn't be uninstalled so I had to nuke everything and rebuild the earlier version. Then it worked for another year or two and then it just turned to crap. So, who do I blame? Well, I could blame Google, but honestly it wasn't their fault I think. The blame goes to a) LG for not supporting the phone better, and for it eventually just not performing well, and b) to me for updating the OS (the first time). So me ditching Android is something I didn't do because of Google, or because the OS was crap. In fact, I'm sure the OS on new powerful phones is probably pretty great.

    So, here I'd apply the same line of thinking. We can't really blame an OS maker for poorly programmed apps by third-parties. Fine, you can come to the conclusion that one shouldn't pick the mobile OS because third party producers aren't putting in enough effort. I can understand that argument, but that's a different thing from complaining about the OS itself, and it matters if users actually don't end up with those poorly designed apps.

    So again, in my case, I haven't stumbled upon third-party apps with tremendous problems, and neither stock apps with severe problems. This is probably because I tend to use few third-party apps. But if I were to listen to some views here, and especially considering how they are phrased, I could possibly have been convinced not to get a 950 because my impression would wrongly have been that I wouldn't have been happy with the phone and OS.

    Words matter.
    I do not mean to come off rude or inconsiderate. There is no harsh tone behind these post. I'm just stating and showing what I thought to be obvious. As far as support goes I think a company as big as Microsoft handing off support that it could easily take care of in house due to how small the windows phone market is a sign it is done with it. Satya Nadella admitted to missing the smart phone boom. Lenovo publically refused to create a windows phone due to Microsoft lack of commitment. Microsoft has admitted to ending Lumia development. The band was also ended. Phones like the McLaren and smart watch where canceled. I mean the signs are all around. I'm not telling anyone not to hold on for hope. I'm just saying that the signs of this whole windows phone thing coming to an end are a bit heavier than the signs of it going on. I'm sure W10M will go on for years but I doubt any new hardware changes anything if it even decides to show up at any point.

    As far as third-party apps are concerned. Everything I mentioned are first party apps. This is what bothers me because it doesn't matter if you blame the app or the OS. They're both from Microsoft. I don't know how google apps work on google phones. I'm switching to my first android phone in a couple days but truth be told I don't use any google stuff and don't plan on it. What I have seen time and time again is that Microsoft's own apps tend to be more polished and have more features on other mobile OS than on their own which tells me either their own OS has issues or their OS apps have issues but either way they take the blame.

    PS. I hope this doesn't read off like I'm anti Microsoft. I had a 1520, currently a 950, a Surface Book - i7/512SSD/16gb RAM, a Surface dock, a Surface Pro 3 - i5/128SSD/4gb RAM, and Office 365. I'm cool with Microsoft services and products overall lol.
    Last edited by xandros9; 12-25-2016 at 09:34 PM. Reason: merging posts
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-25-2016 08:33 PM
  13. midnightfrolic's Avatar
    Curious. As community manager around these parts, I have almost one of everything. iPhones, Android Phones, Windows Phones, BlackBerry phones, you name it... but from within the Windows Central community, what would you say to an Apple, Android or BlackBerry user looking to switch to Windows Phone? What are the great things you can't get anywhere else? Sound off!
    These are things you cannot get anywhere else.

    -First party MS apps built in - outlook, office, edge

    -Continuum

    -Cortana, best AI assistance imho

    -better photo sync with OneDrive

    -sync to Edge on desktop

    -better security, for what its worth

    Running 950XL unlocked dual sim on tmobile. However, at the moment, there really isn't anything else compelling to switch ecosystems. Maybe when they can run full Windows OS and run them fast. Maybe.
    12-25-2016 11:20 PM
  14. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    This feels like the longest page there ever was.

    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
    Lumia ICON [Win10M 14977.1000] Sportster
    Even when I lose, I win.
    Guytronic and Laura Knotek like this.
    12-26-2016 08:48 AM
  15. aximtreo's Avatar
    You know, I bet both these guys could go outside and write their names in cursive in the snow and they still would argue. Layem out guys.
    12-26-2016 09:23 AM
  16. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The older I get, the more fun it is to watch 2 people argue so vehemently about something they have zero control over.
    12-26-2016 12:01 PM
  17. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    You know, I bet both these guys could go outside and write their names in cursive in the snow and they still would argue. Layem out guys.
    Yet, they're both good guys. Aaaaahhhhhhhh "Youth". Ya know?, I feel that way sometimes and even "go there" once in a while, but "I" just don't have the energy to take it a whole page... I just take my ball and go home and you don't see me for a while. But eventually I get over it and come on back.... a bit sheepishly.

    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
    Lumia ICON [Win10M 14977.1000] Sportster
    Even when I lose, I win.
    aximtreo, slivy58, Nate W and 1 others like this.
    12-26-2016 12:03 PM
  18. TgeekB's Avatar
    A new viewer of smartphone forums might think they've accidentally come across a discussion of how to achieve world peace, but alas, it's just about these stupid little pieces of plastic we can't set down and will fight to the death over. Ahh, humanity.
    12-26-2016 01:00 PM
  19. Nate W's Avatar
    Yet, they're both good guys. Aaaaahhhhhhhh "Youth". Ya know?, I feel that way sometimes and even "go there" once in a while, but "I" just don't have the energy to take it a whole page... I just take my ball and go home and you don't see me for a while. But eventually I get over it and come on back.... a bit sheepishly.

    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
    Lumia ICON [Win10M 14977.1000] Sportster
    Even when I lose, I win.
    Ya. Lol. Hopefully it was all done from something other than a mobile phone, I have difficulty typing a few lines here at a time let alone a couple pages ;)

    Sent from mTalk
    12-26-2016 01:01 PM
  20. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Yes, let's all stick to twitter-length hyperbole. Better society that way. Just look at the US election.
    12-26-2016 01:28 PM
  21. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    Ya. Lol. Hopefully it was all done from something other than a mobile phone, I have difficulty typing a few lines here at a time let alone a couple pages ;)

    Sent from mTalk
    I was even collaterally damaged by this brouhaha which started at the very top of page 9. the last 2 posts on page 8 were a post from a heckler and my reply. My reply was hardly seen and would have got me Top Liked for Christmas night. I'd have enjoyed that. But the dog fight started a new page, page 9 and nobody else has even looked at page 8 except for a couple viewers since page 9 erupted. Darn it!

    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
    Lumia ICON [Win10M 14977.1000] Sportster
    Even when I lose, I win.
    12-26-2016 01:38 PM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    A new viewer of smartphone forums might think they've accidentally come across a discussion of how to achieve world peace, but alas, it's just about these stupid little pieces of plastic we can't set down and will fight to the death over. Ahh, humanity.
    Ah, the days of flip phones beckons more so. At least we have a great mod team here keeping things from getting out of hand. Been on Facebook lately? I'm thiiiis close to closing my account.

    Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk
    12-26-2016 01:51 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yes, let's all stick to twitter-length hyperbole. Better society that way. Just look at the US election.
    Not a good suggestion. The elections have made Twitter a cesspool for anyone with half a brain and a keyboard.

    Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk
    12-26-2016 01:53 PM
  24. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    Ah, the days of flip phones beckons more so. At least we have a great mod team here keeping things from getting out of hand. Been on Facebook lately? I'm thiiiis close to closing my account.

    Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk
    My good ole Razor Flip phone. I went through 3 of them. First gen had problems, but 2nd gen took off like a rocket.

    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
    Lumia ICON [Win10M 14977.1000] Sportster
    Even when I lose, I win.
    12-26-2016 01:55 PM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    Ah, the days of flip phones beckons more so. At least we have a great mod team here keeping things from getting out of hand. Been on Facebook lately? I'm thiiiis close to closing my account.

    Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk
    I was on FB for only a couple of months. Being in management i couldn't believe the incriminating things our employees were posting. I felt it was best if i didn't know. I'll leave that to HR.
    12-26-2016 02:06 PM
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