Whats actually missing that won't be fixed by Windows on ARM?

[Drael646464]

I tried to find something today. The only thing I could find was snapchat, an app used primarily by cash low teenagers who usually buy their iphones secondhand...

Spotify has a desktop app. Not exactly a busy interface either. Facebook and Instagram both have UWPs. Twitter is there, and even if it wasn't it runs in chrome. You've got all of chromes apps, so like native youtube, google maps, WhatsApp (not that UWP doesn't also have WhatsApp) and you can just drop them on the desktop, and put them in tiles. So even googles snobbing of windows 10 mobile, doesn't matter once you bring in the desktop power.

Chrome can make nice windows stand alone versions of any webpage.

There's a host of major title UWP games + the few win32 touch ones (shadowrun, trine 2, and IF you can get an xbox controller touch virtualisation going - please MS, please! - loooooads).

So what is missing in your experience, on windows 10 mobile that can't be filled, or on many levels surpassed on some levels with win32 apps? (I know I feel kinda spoilt on my windows 10 tablet next to android users)

Or maybe even just what do you find missing in UWP?

 

[dgr_874]

The UI on win32 apps scaled down to a 6-7" screen would be horrible to interact with unless whoever owns those programs rewrites them for a smaller screen. What company is going to go through all the expense to rewrite those programs for the tiny amount of mobile users that something like this could bring?

 

[Drael646464]

The UI on win32 apps scaled down to a 6-7" screen would be horrible to interact with unless whoever owns those programs rewrites them for a smaller screen. What company is going to go through all the expense to rewrite those programs for the tiny amount of mobile users that something like this could bring?

Perhaps for the majorty of win32 apps. Although that's not really true of many of the examples I gave, such as the chrome apps for youtube, google maps, WhatsApp which are copied off android and ios apps, and designed to run on tiny chrome books. Spotify is hardly a visually busy app, and there is a chrome app version of that too, I believe.

Shadowrun is too small in the android phone, so it'll be much the same. But if you had the latest versions, scaled them, and had a big phone, sure.

Same with, say trine 2.

Although people are writing touch based optimisations for tablets, and windows tablets are only 5% of the market (but fast growing), and given that win32 will attract enterprise, likely creatives and potentially (with the xbox controller touch interface - if they make it, and they really should) gamers ....I'm not convinced it will be tiny. New products rarely attract no developers even if you ignore the influence of desktop and tablets. Given that leverage, its a small consideration for some writing for tablets and desktops together, to also consider mobile as well.

Fruity loops is a huge product, image-line scaled that for tablets.

Software quality/power, rather than quantity, is a different sort of commodity, with a different audience, not catered to by the current kings of mobile. A market that has a lot more money to spend on apps.

That's why the win32 app market is quite different. These people don't spend nothing or whinge about 3 dollars for software. They pay 100+, or get expensive subscriptions for things like game software and adobe products.

For this supposed "app gap", so far as I can tell, there's not much missing. Windows store UWPs have some strong offerings these days. It ain't like Blackberry World. So...

I'm just trying to find an example, of something someone over the age of 15, would actually want to commonly do, where there is no way of using win32 to do that reasonably.

And even just looking at UWP apps, I can't find many gaps for my applications.

If I had to run zero win32s on my tablet except for browsers, and only chrome apps, core apps and UWPs, I'd have something far more capable than an amazon tablet, or a blackberry phone and I'd only really miss power user software, something mobiles don't have currently (high end games, creative software).

All the social stuff is there that people commonly use. The browser end would be far more capable than any other phones. There's quality touch only UWP and win32 games. Anything that isn't an app could be basically converted into one, via chromes save to desktop (windowed). Chrome apps cover all the basics, just as UWP does, between them it seems pretty replete.

Even without chrome support, you can run them in firefox and opera. Chromium is open source.

But I am not every user. I'm more of a prosumer. So I am curious about this.

 

[Drael646464]

What are people's personal experiences, with apps they'd like to run on windows 10 mobile currently, that they can't?

Consider it a research project. I want to see what might be bridged by win32, and what wont (there's no chrome app for snapchat. Although it might be possible to run it via android developer software or chromes "ARCwelder")

 

[dgr_874]

Most people probably don't even know (or care) what win32 is. I didn't even know myself until about a year or so ago. All I knew is that iOS and Android had apps that worked and W10M did not.

I think something you are missing is that people have already left and are used to using iOS or android. Why would these people (mostly consumers) want to spend hundreds of dollars to buy all new devices and switch all their music or pictures or documents over when they have a system/device that works perfectly well for them?

Sure win32 may have more potential, especially for power users. But, people who are light users (i.e. most users) wouldn't see a difference and I would argue would have a worse experience trying to use win32 instead of dedicated apps on iOS and Android.

 

[nasznjoka]

We have many items these days that the only way to configure them is via iodroid apps and they are F our homes, payments etc...
Then you have perception which is the main wp killer

 

[fatclue_98]

The UI on win32 apps scaled down to a 6-7" screen would be horrible to interact with unless whoever owns those programs rewrites them for a smaller screen. What company is going to go through all the expense to rewrite those programs for the tiny amount of mobile users that something like this could bring?

Starting with Microsoft scaling the x86 browser to a display that small. Have you tried W10 on an 8" tablet like the Dell Venue 8 or similar? Nearly worthless without a stylus. or Mr. Magoo glasses.

 

[dgr_874]

Starting with Microsoft scaling the x86 browser to a display that small. Have you tried W10 on an 8" tablet like the Dell Venue 8 or similar? Nearly worthless without a stylus. or Mr. Magoo glasses.

Yup, I have two 8" tablets and never use them on the desktop, tablet mode all the time.

Are you agreeing with me that the UI would be unusable for most people with a device this small?

 

[fatclue_98]

Yup, I have two 8" tablets and never use them on the desktop, tablet mode all the time.

Are you agreeing with me that the UI would be unusable for most people with a device this small?

Absolutely. Even in tablet mode or if you still have 8.1 with Metro, click on any browser and desktop kicks in and you're faced with tiny nav buttons and an address bar that's 1.5mm high.

 

[dgr_874]

Ah ok, just making sure since it seems my reading comprehension failed me last time.

 

[Drael646464]

Most people probably don't even know (or care) what win32 is. I didn't even know myself until about a year or so ago. All I knew is that iOS and Android had apps that worked and W10M did not.

I think something you are missing is that people have already left and are used to using iOS or android. Why would these people (mostly consumers) want to spend hundreds of dollars to buy all new devices and switch all their music or pictures or documents over when they have a system/device that works perfectly well for them?

Sure win32 may have more potential, especially for power users. But, people who are light users (i.e. most users) wouldn't see a difference and I would argue would have a worse experience trying to use win32 instead of dedicated apps on iOS and Android.

Only slightly less people own computers, as own mobile phones, and they are mostly the same people. IDK where you live, but the people I know all both, and a range of tablets and laptops. Those computers and laptops run windows (7 or 10). Then every school and business too. So I can't agree that most people are unfamiliar with windows programs, or windows itself. I think anyone that is, basically has a noteable life disadvantage.

You may be right it about it mostly being a power user thing wanting those apps on a phone. But I've seen people look curiously at my windows tablet because it seems to be able to do more than ordinary tablets. Something as simple playing a desktop game that runs on a tablet, stands out from mobile quality games.

Then again I have know kids in the ghetto who like to run stuff like game console emus, so wouldn't surprise me if some every day folk were interested in getting some more powerful stuff working on their device.

People don't like the idea their device doesn't measure up, even if they never do the thing.

I guess we'll see how its received, who uses it and so on.

There's no doubt MS will want more people to move win32 apps over to uwp, and the store, and touch scalability with their power applications. If they want that prosumer niche, they'll have to get THAT to happen. There's no way they will me too themselves to compete with iOS/android. But if they can get THOSE apps (rather than snapchat) on their platform, the power user apps, they'll have a product people will buy, and the rest will come.

If I were Microsoft I'd invest maybe five to ten million, on those applications with the release of windows on arm (adobe, business/database coding software, gaming, music performance and creation). And I'd definition include the touch xbox controller. And even if windows on phones fails it would be cleverly invested money because it would make windows tablets stand out even more.

The teenager with their iPhone would been an incredibly stupid consumer to try and directly steal by imitation. But if MS goes this other route, and invests in it, maybe they can beat the others at a game they aren't even playing, and win that way. After all teenagers do also often game, or create not just use snapchat.

 

[Drael646464]

We have many items these days that the only way to configure them is via iodroid apps and they are F our homes, payments etc...
Then you have perception which is the main wp killer

What are some example apps?

That's really what I ideally want from this thread. Specific examples, that I can try and replace on my tablet with say, chrome apps run as separate widowed desktop links.

I'd like to try and find things regular people would be missing, and see if it they can be easily achieved on win32.

Not sure this app gap is severe as many windows users make out anyway, but I'm curious mainly.

 

[fatclue_98]

What are some example apps?

That's really what I ideally want from this thread. Specific examples, that I can try and replace on my tablet with say, chrome apps run as separate widowed desktop links.

I'd like to try and find things regular people would be missing, and see if it they can be easily achieved on win32.

Not sure this app gap is severe as many windows users make out anyway, but I'm curious mainly.

Oh dear, that app gap comment will spur the mob to bring out the tar and feathers. You on your own homes. I ain't gettin in the crossfire.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

 

[Drael646464]

Oh dear, that app gap comment will spur the mob to bring out the tar and feathers. You on your own homes. I ain't gettin in the crossfire.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

I have a blackberry. Blackberry world is 1/3 of the size of the windows store, and its ALL third party.

Windows has first party UWP apps for all the major social media networks, quality touch game titles, even third party apps for things like the xiaomi mi band 2. It's a store that has grown significantly since I have gotten windows 10, 2 years ago. It was BBW size when I first looked at it.

Obviously some things like the tinder app, are terrible. The chrome extension is better.

I don't use UWP only, but I prefer them where ever its an option, on desktop and tablet.

But if windows 10 mobile users are complaining, there must be some commonly used software that isn't there. I just don't really know what it is, clearly its things I don't use.

 

[fatclue_98]

I have a blackberry. Blackberry world is 1/3 of the size of the windows store, and its ALL third party.

Windows has first party UWP apps for all the major social media networks, quality touch game titles, even third party apps for things like the xiaomi mi band 2. It's a store that has grown significantly since I have gotten windows 10, 2 years ago. It was BBW size when I first looked at it.

Obviously some things like the tinder app, are terrible. The chrome extension is better.

I don't use UWP only, but I prefer them where ever its an option, on desktop and tablet.

But if windows 10 mobile users are complaining, there must be some commonly used software that isn't there. I just don't really know what it is, clearly its things I don't use.

Preaching to the choir. I use a Passport myself. Along with this Idol, a 6S+ and a LG G5.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

 

[Drael646464]

View attachment 135028

That's my current tablet desktop (Movies and TV is Kodi UWP, Comic and Mags is a UWP bookshelf bookreader).

All the chromium web apps run as fast as regular apps, apart from google+ which isn't an app, but a windowed website. They all scale, and would work on a phone fine (YouTube, google maps, and Spotify are all chromium web apps from the chrome store).

Of course there's plenty of UWP apps on my tablet as well, and win32 touch compatible programs, including a dozen great touch host of games in my games folder (two are win32).

Only thing I think I'd actually miss on a phone would be my banking app.

And setting up webpages or apps to run windowed is a piece of cake, regular people could happily do this with no technical inclination. And because the chrome apps are quick like a regular app, its the same experience, basically.

If it was a phone I'd probably add a photo filter apps. Some people would add netfilx instead of kodi. Not a twitter user, but that's their in UWP. As is foursquare., Viber, SoundCloud, AliExpress and WhatsApp.

Slack runs as a chrome app. Kindle cloud reader comes as a chrome app. WhatsApp also has several chrome apps. There's several amazon extensions/apps.

 

[Dr_Henry_Killinger]

Are you sure WhatsApp would work? I see UWP or chrome wrappers of WhatsApp Web but that relies on having a native app running on your phone for it to communicate with, since everything is tied to your phone number.

 

[Drael646464]

Are you sure WhatsApp would work? I see UWP or chrome wrappers of WhatsApp Web but that relies on having a native app running on your phone for it to communicate with, since everything is tied to your phone number.

If it's anything like viber, it probably doesn't "communicate" with the phone, so much as simply use the sign in created on the phone. I'll try it now.

Update: Turns out they are all wrappers for WhatsApp web. Because the WhatsApp on Blackberry is no longer supported, I can't do the QR scan required to login. But windows phone does still have a WhatsApp app, and apparently you can use that to login.

Probably a little complicated to setup, may as well just use the windows version, unless its bunk (It does appear that any chrome app you set up on PC, is accessable via your chrome login (ie its cloud based, as we know), so if you set it up on your desktop, you could probably get access this way on your windows on ARM phone, if you desperately wanted to get the web UI.

Then, in theory, like viber, it should actually work _through_ your phone app, but simply use that as a login and initial validation. In practice, it might not work, as maybe the web UI asks for the QR code scan every time? *shrug*

Anyone with an android or windows phone wanna set this up as a chrome app on their PC?

So far I've installed a bunch of chrome apps, and for most purposes, it does actually flesh out the "easy access portal" aspect of my win10 tablet. Would be even more handy for a phone, where you'd want to run as much as possible via apps.

It also helps that google announced this year, a new self-contained version of the chrome app, that can access Bluetooth, usb, camera etc, and runs without the browser wrapper or web access (ie locally stored).

It's intended to be a cross platform (Linux, windows, OSX), app platform for devices that can run chromium.