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  1. Drael646464's Avatar
    x3 on Verizon will make a lot of fans happy. Pick up the sales a bit too.
    07-23-2017 09:33 AM
  2. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Its a phablet. Like around the size of the Mi Max.
    I think that's debatable. In my view a phablet is a combination of a phone and a tablet, and it certainly necessitates radio comm plus a large screen. While this has both I would also argue that since there have been tablets with radio communication - that weren't phablets, there's something else involved as well. The way I see it, this device in question is so large it can't really be a phablet.

    Or to put it differently: A 4" screen smart phone with a touch screen will do what a tablet does and perform phone duties, yet it isn't a "phablet". So there's some fluidity here. I would argue that the line is draw by the consumer(s) at the point they no longer would consider carrying the device around as a primary communications device. So if it's so large that a user doesn't want to put it in a pocket in case they get a phone call, then it's probably not a phablet.

    (The MiMax is 6.44" diagonally, and the pictured device definitely looks larger, definitely above 7 ")

    They didn't release a variety of sizes of hybrid tablet, and you still got them, as well as different configurations. The iphone was released in one size, and now we have a load of them. What do you think OEMs are for? Once the idea is out there, and the SKU to run it, other people will be doing it.
    Well yes, but having an OS that is "scalable" is a different thing than actually creating a device. I thought the point of pointing to this device was that it was a device, a device that previously had been thought of as the "surface phone". My interpretation of it being a new category device had more to do with the software than the hardware, with the exception of running on ARM. So the problem I see is that if MS creates a device like this, a tablet that increases its surface area, then that's a hugely different proposition than creating what essentially would be a smartphone running full Windows on ARM (for example).

    The difference in practice, the way I see it, is two-fold:

    1; if MS introduces a device that looks like the one int he picture, with that being the minimum size of that device, then it sure isn't a phone and it sure isn't even a phablet. It might be a great device, but it won't be though of as a device one could use instead of a smartphone. It would in essence not be a surface phone, nor a surface phablet.

    2; If OEMs are going to then go out and create a new device-category, one that runs full Win on ARM but on a smaller form factor, acting as an actual "surface" phone, then it'd need to license the tech from MS or do their own R&D.

    Now, you could of course say that it wouldn't have to be a foldable smartphone device that's smaller than what's pictured, and instead have a fixed screen size. But then the point is that they don't need this pictured device to do that. All they need to know is that full Win runs on ARM and they can shove that in a 5.5" screened smartphone if they want to.

    So, to conclude; the pictured device doesn't look like the "Surface Phone" people have been exploring in theory - simply because it is the wrong size. Thus, if the argument was that MS was going to push a different device category that would supersede the smartphone then I just don't think this is it - and thus if this is the only thing they're working on we might not even see it.

    Besides there's probably an x3 in the work, and maybe an alcatel in regular slab size surely. At least thems the rumours and as you can see, just cause its a rumour, don't mean it aint real - because people knew that magnetic hinge badboy was coming years ago..
    Yes, I saw the image of the "new" x3, and I saw rumors of an x3 being certified for Verizon. I can imagine Alcatel developing something if they make money off of the current Windows offering, but not if they aren't making money.

    The point is that they are still working on this shizz. Which is positive even if you don't want a large phablet right?
    A "large phablet" is a tablet in my book. Users won't want to substitute a smartphone with a tablet. I'm certain of that. I think the maximum screen size has been reached already. That's why the concept of a device that's about 5-6 inches folded but then unfolds to something like a tablet was appealing. It would have been portable yet with some really nice screen real estate when needed.
    TgeekB and Scienceguy Labs like this.
    07-23-2017 03:48 PM
  3. etphoto's Avatar
    x3 on Verizon will make a lot of fans happy. Pick up the sales a bit too.
    I was going to hold out for the Arm device but if HP's x3 is released on big red I might go that route and hold on to it for a couple of yrs. It's been MS history to release a new device that has issues and it takes them awhile to get things fixed. I would imagine the new Win on Arm mobile device will be no different.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    Drael646464 likes this.
    07-23-2017 04:39 PM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think that's debatable. In my view a phablet is a combination of a phone and a tablet, and it certainly necessitates radio comm plus a large screen. While this has both I would also argue that since there have been tablets with radio communication - that weren't phablets, there's something else involved as well. The way I see it, this device in question is so large it can't really be a phablet.

    Or to put it differently: A 4" screen smart phone with a touch screen will do what a tablet does and perform phone duties, yet it isn't a "phablet". So there's some fluidity here. I would argue that the line is draw by the consumer(s) at the point they no longer would consider carrying the device around as a primary communications device. So if it's so large that a user doesn't want to put it in a pocket in case they get a phone call, then it's probably not a phablet.

    (The MiMax is 6.44" diagonally, and the pictured device definitely looks larger, definitely above 7 ")



    Well yes, but having an OS that is "scalable" is a different thing than actually creating a device. I thought the point of pointing to this device was that it was a device, a device that previously had been thought of as the "surface phone". My interpretation of it being a new category device had more to do with the software than the hardware, with the exception of running on ARM. So the problem I see is that if MS creates a device like this, a tablet that increases its surface area, then that's a hugely different proposition than creating what essentially would be a smartphone running full Windows on ARM (for example).

    The difference in practice, the way I see it, is two-fold:

    1; if MS introduces a device that looks like the one int he picture, with that being the minimum size of that device, then it sure isn't a phone and it sure isn't even a phablet. It might be a great device, but it won't be though of as a device one could use instead of a smartphone. It would in essence not be a surface phone, nor a surface phablet.

    2; If OEMs are going to then go out and create a new device-category, one that runs full Win on ARM but on a smaller form factor, acting as an actual "surface" phone, then it'd need to license the tech from MS or do their own R&D.

    Now, you could of course say that it wouldn't have to be a foldable smartphone device that's smaller than what's pictured, and instead have a fixed screen size. But then the point is that they don't need this pictured device to do that. All they need to know is that full Win runs on ARM and they can shove that in a 5.5" screened smartphone if they want to.

    So, to conclude; the pictured device doesn't look like the "Surface Phone" people have been exploring in theory - simply because it is the wrong size. Thus, if the argument was that MS was going to push a different device category that would supersede the smartphone then I just don't think this is it - and thus if this is the only thing they're working on we might not even see it.



    Yes, I saw the image of the "new" x3, and I saw rumors of an x3 being certified for Verizon. I can imagine Alcatel developing something if they make money off of the current Windows offering, but not if they aren't making money.



    A "large phablet" is a tablet in my book. Users won't want to substitute a smartphone with a tablet. I'm certain of that. I think the maximum screen size has been reached already. That's why the concept of a device that's about 5-6 inches folded but then unfolds to something like a tablet was appealing. It would have been portable yet with some really nice screen real estate when needed.
    I'm not convinced there is any current plan to release "windows on arm" on a phone. They might do it, if there was a table projector, but I think its pretty well established that for now continuum is a pretty darn niche application for phones - most people will just use a slimline laptop instead.

    As for "surface phone", well the CEO, and the COO of surface have both said "our new phone will not look like a phone". It doesn't really get any clearer than that.

    I think the point of the Andromeda OS, being just a branch of win10m, is that its deigned to incorporate multiple, interactive screens. There should in theory be a bunch of configurations OEMs can play with.
    07-23-2017 10:09 PM
  5. PerfectReign's Avatar
    I It's been MS history to release a new device that has issues and it takes them awhile to get things fixed. I would imagine the new Win on Arm mobile device will be no different.
    Windows Phone 3.11 FTW
    anthonyng likes this.
    07-23-2017 10:46 PM
  6. Nate W's Avatar
    Nice! That's what we're talking about!
    07-24-2017 12:50 AM
  7. Nate W's Avatar
    x3 on Verizon will make a lot of fans happy. Pick up the sales a bit too.
    Finally someone reports on this. I have been mentioning this since May...lol
    07-24-2017 12:51 AM
  8. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    I'm not convinced there is any current plan to release "windows on arm" on a phone. They might do it, if there was a table projector, but I think its pretty well established that for now continuum is a pretty darn niche application for phones - most people will just use a slimline laptop instead.

    As for "surface phone", well the CEO, and the COO of surface have both said "our new phone will not look like a phone". It doesn't really get any clearer than that.
    The distinction above between "'windows on arm' on a phone" and "surface phone" is meaningless. The "Surface phone" people have been speculating about was thought of as a phone. For the purpose of what we're discussing now the important part is that it's not the size of a phone.

    If MS people say that the next phone will not look like a phone, it still has to function like a phone, and part of that is portability. So, what the picture shows ain't it. That's all I'm saying.

    I think the point of the Andromeda OS, being just a branch of win10m, is that its deigned to incorporate multiple, interactive screens. There should in theory be a bunch of configurations OEMs can play with.
    I'm not so sure OEMs would be motivated to shrink this device to make it a de facto phone replacement/enhancement. I'm guessing they, like others, would look at the fact that the device would replace a phone and immediately connect that with W10M phones, the ones everyone is saying are dead. Not much promise in that.

    On the other hand, given the track record of the surface team it would make more sense to me if they came out with a successor to W10M phone, even if it was so enhanced it was essentially category defying. The key trait here is that it would supersede the phone. It's within that context that it'd have been far more interesting to have seen a smaller device.

    Now, perhaps this is just an engineering sample or something. I hope it is. Quite frankly it's to me a more odd concept than a 5-6" that unfolds to twice the size.
    07-24-2017 01:08 AM
  9. Drael646464's Avatar
    The distinction above between "'windows on arm' on a phone" and "surface phone" is meaningless. The "Surface phone" people have been speculating about was thought of as a phone. For the purpose of what we're discussing now the important part is that it's not the size of a phone.

    If MS people say that the next phone will not look like a phone, it still has to function like a phone, and part of that is portability. So, what the picture shows ain't it. That's all I'm saying.
    You can use a 6-7 device as a phone, and people do. The cube windows phone, and the mi max are 7 inch and 6.4 inch respectively and they both have fans. Just because its not what people personally want and imagine doesn't make it "not a phone". You can slip even a 7 inch device into a jacket pocket - even that new tiny laptop is just pocketable.

    I'm not so sure OEMs would be motivated to shrink this device to make it a de facto phone replacement/enhancement. I'm guessing they, like others, would look at the fact that the device would replace a phone and immediately connect that with W10M phones, the ones everyone is saying are dead. Not much promise in that.
    That's not what I would do. I'd look at how well the product was received, and what the buzz was around it, and probably take into account the demographics and decide objectively whether there was a market for it. I don't think businesses make business decisions like that. They try to make them with the cold clear head of a surgeon.

    On the other hand, given the track record of the surface team it would make more sense to me if they came out with a successor to W10M phone, even if it was so enhanced it was essentially category defying. The key trait here is that it would supersede the phone. It's within that context that it'd have been far more interesting to have seen a smaller device.
    That's not to say they don't have one. The original aspirational design was the size of a credit card. Something like above would be IDEAL as a portable productivity machine - touch keyboard on one screen, documents on the other, and slipped into the jacket pocket and yet just small enough to use as a held to head phone if need be. Something essentially between a laptop, a tablet, and a phablet.

    And a product, with an obvious application and market like that, is probably easier to sell, than a regular phone for consumers.

    But it doesn't mean that's the only configuration.

    The way I see it, the SKU, the OS component, is really the important component - the win10m branch that is designed for multiple screen configurations. Where things go from there is sort of an open doorway of possibilities.

    Sure the detachable hinge design, similar to the surface book is an important hardware element for the device. But I think it's the OS that's the core part. The _new_ ability to have a mobile OS operate with any number of interactive independent screens.
    07-24-2017 01:25 AM
  10. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    You can use a 6-7 device as a phone, and people do. The cube windows phone, and the mi max are 7 inch and 6.4 inch respectively and they both have fans. Just because its not what people personally want and imagine doesn't make it "not a phone". You can slip even a 7 inch device into a jacket pocket - even that new tiny laptop is just pocketable.
    So what? What's the size of the phone everyone around you is using on average? How many of them are rocking a 7+ inch device? How many pocket a "tiny laptop"?

    I mean, surely you must understand what I'm talking about here.... There's a limit to what people find convenient to carry around. You can fit a frickin' 15inch-screened laptop in your clothes too provided the pockets are large enough. But that's not the point. The point is what a "phone" is and what a "phablet" is and what a "tablet" is and what the pictured device seems to be. It doesn't seem like a phone-replacement, due to its size.

    I don't see the point in you arguing this unless you think that device is small enough to fit in a pocket AND that a pretty large amount of people would actually buy and use it that way.

    That's not what I would do. I'd look at how well the product was received, and what the buzz was around it, and probably take into account the demographics and decide objectively whether there was a market for it. I don't think businesses make business decisions like that. They try to make them with the cold clear head of a surgeon.
    Yeah but again you're missing the point I'm making. People in general stick to phones with screen sizes around 5 inches. Not 7+. And people in general get phones because they want something on their person when they're at work, out on the town, at dinner, at home, wherever. They use phones instead of laptops because of the portability of the device.

    Since portability is key, and since this device appears to be so big, its sales won't indicate how a smaller device will do in the phone market. That's my point. If size is of no concern then you could argue that the Surface Studio's great reception justifies a new cell phone. Or laptop sales do. I just think that size is super important. This device's success or failure won't be a reliable indicator/predictor. But a similar device at about 5 inches would be.

    not to say they don't have one.
    Obviously. But it would have been more inspiring to see such a device rather than what looks more like a double-tablet.

    The original aspirational design was the size of a credit card. Something like above would be IDEAL as a portable productivity machine - touch keyboard on one screen, documents on the other, and slipped into the jacket pocket and yet just small enough to use as a held to head phone if need be. Something essentially between a laptop, a tablet, and a phablet.
    I'll just have to disagree with you then. "touch keyboard on one screen" directly puts us in the realm of just plain old human physiology. Just take your hands and place them on a table and imagine you're typing. What surface area do you need to do that? That's one screen's worth of area. It just so happens that keyboards smaller than the physical ones we already have are hard to use for a lot of people, especially without tactile feedback. So, we're stuck with what is essentially not a phablet, because it's too big. It's really a double-screen tablet. That's what it is. Is that the ideal portable productivity machine? I'm not sure about that. But I'm sure it ain't a phone replacement for a great deal of people. So.... see above...

    it doesn't mean that's the only configuration.

    The way I see it, the SKU, the OS component, is really the important component - the win10m branch that is designed for multiple screen configurations. Where things go from there is sort of an open doorway of possibilities.

    Sure the detachable hinge design, similar to the surface book is an important hardware element for the device. But I think it's the OS that's the core part. The _new_ ability to have a mobile OS operate with any number of interactive independent screens.
    Then again, I happen to think that the Windows Mobile OS is very, very nice. Yet there's little development for it, and now we're effectively down to two known manufacturers of handsets with only rumors for what could be coming.

    So the problem here is that if this new branch that I know nothing about is indeed win10m again, but supporting multiple screens, will it have new features and will it have more apps? Because I'm afraid I'm going to have to admit that to many people the lack of their favorite apps is making them not switch. So how is that solved by a device with two screens? It isn't.

    Windows on ARM seems to have more promise assuming a small form factor. That to me makes more sense actually. Unless we'b be looking at some sort of dual-boot setup, which I doubt would be efficient from a power/performance perspective.
    07-24-2017 05:03 PM
  11. Drael646464's Avatar
    So what? What's the size of the phone everyone around you is using on average? How many of them are rocking a 7+ inch device? How many pocket a "tiny laptop"?

    I mean, surely you must understand what I'm talking about here.... There's a limit to what people find convenient to carry around. You can fit a frickin' 15inch-screened laptop in your clothes too provided the pockets are large enough. But that's not the point. The point is what a "phone" is and what a "phablet" is and what a "tablet" is and what the pictured device seems to be. It doesn't seem like a phone-replacement, due to its size.

    I don't see the point in you arguing this unless you think that device is small enough to fit in a pocket AND that a pretty large amount of people would actually buy and use it that way.



    Yeah but again you're missing the point I'm making. People in general stick to phones with screen sizes around 5 inches. Not 7+. And people in general get phones because they want something on their person when they're at work, out on the town, at dinner, at home, wherever. They use phones instead of laptops because of the portability of the device.

    Since portability is key, and since this device appears to be so big, its sales won't indicate how a smaller device will do in the phone market. That's my point. If size is of no concern then you could argue that the Surface Studio's great reception justifies a new cell phone. Or laptop sales do. I just think that size is super important. This device's success or failure won't be a reliable indicator/predictor. But a similar device at about 5 inches would be.



    Obviously. But it would have been more inspiring to see such a device rather than what looks more like a double-tablet.



    I'll just have to disagree with you then. "touch keyboard on one screen" directly puts us in the realm of just plain old human physiology. Just take your hands and place them on a table and imagine you're typing. What surface area do you need to do that? That's one screen's worth of area. It just so happens that keyboards smaller than the physical ones we already have are hard to use for a lot of people, especially without tactile feedback. So, we're stuck with what is essentially not a phablet, because it's too big. It's really a double-screen tablet. That's what it is. Is that the ideal portable productivity machine? I'm not sure about that. But I'm sure it ain't a phone replacement for a great deal of people. So.... see above...



    Then again, I happen to think that the Windows Mobile OS is very, very nice. Yet there's little development for it, and now we're effectively down to two known manufacturers of handsets with only rumors for what could be coming.

    So the problem here is that if this new branch that I know nothing about is indeed win10m again, but supporting multiple screens, will it have new features and will it have more apps? Because I'm afraid I'm going to have to admit that to many people the lack of their favorite apps is making them not switch. So how is that solved by a device with two screens? It isn't.

    Windows on ARM seems to have more promise assuming a small form factor. That to me makes more sense actually. Unless we'b be looking at some sort of dual-boot setup, which I doubt would be efficient from a power/performance perspective.
    I'm not seeing MSFTs next few phone market moves as a desire to create a device with mass appeal. It's just not realistic to take on android and ios head on, at their own game.


    Like with the surface, they will want to target a niche, and expand.

    As for UWP, that's what IMO windows on arm is designed to encourage. Things like running native on arm (30% or more faster), toast notifications while in sleep mode, use of GPS and calling functionality, scaling etc are more the realm of UWP. Users aren't going to want their apps running 30%+ slower if they can help it.

    If you have two apps, one win32, and one UWP, and the features are identical - the UWP will be a significantly better UX.

    The way I see windows on arm, is a sort of backwards compatibility, that enables and encourages the new windows app platform. So I see it as a very UWP centric move, both in running UWP native, and in having the hardware to utilise mobility apps from islandwood. It slips devices into a massive and growth market - laptops, with the mobility features of a smartphone and the advantage of native over emulated apps. It's kinda sly, because users won't see it as anything different other than having extra features, but developers sure are going to notice the change in their userbase.
    07-24-2017 11:23 PM
  12. faisalbaba's Avatar
    07-26-2017 02:01 PM
  13. faisalbaba's Avatar
    Store new look on mobile



    Sent from (iOK)
    Telmo Varanda likes this.
    07-26-2017 02:05 PM
  14. faisalbaba's Avatar
    07-28-2017 02:02 PM
  15. faisalbaba's Avatar
    07-29-2017 01:12 PM
  16. Drael646464's Avatar
    Interesting. You can see MSFT has been toying with asthetics with the surface pro.
    07-30-2017 03:22 AM
  17. faisalbaba's Avatar
    Survival craft redeem code
    CVTXK-GFMW3-P4MC4-6Q6D3-W7MHZ

    Sent from (iOK)
    Nate W and sinime like this.
    07-30-2017 12:15 PM
  18. faisalbaba's Avatar
    Off topic

    Three games that is available on pc show up on mobile store .Anyone know that

    Sent from (iOK)
    Nate W likes this.
    07-31-2017 01:27 AM
  19. Nate W's Avatar
    Off topic
    http://i.imgur.com/wO9XGgp.jpg
    Three games that is available on pc show up on mobile store .Anyone know that

    Sent from (iOK)
    You're awesome. I am not into video games but keep these coming. You singlehandedly are providing thriving material for this thread practically every day.
    faisalbaba likes this.
    07-31-2017 06:14 AM
  20. faisalbaba's Avatar
    You're awesome. I am not into video games but keep these coming. You singlehandedly are providing thriving material for this thread practically every day.
    Thanks

    Sent from (iOK)
    07-31-2017 06:24 AM
  21. Drael646464's Avatar
    Off topic
    http://i.imgur.com/wO9XGgp.jpg
    Three games that is available on pc show up on mobile store .Anyone know that

    Sent from (iOK)
    I knew that.

    There's actually a great deal of former Silverlight apps, that have been full UWP'd - I'd say the majority of mobile games are full UWP these days.

    Hydro Thunder is one, and the halo strike/assault (Warhammer freeblade is full UWP, machinarium, dream machine, leo's fortune, tiny troopers- the go series were former silverlights, now full UWP...many more actually - I think more full UWP than Silverlight nowadays)

    I reckon games is one area where win10m does alright. There's still titles coming in, and converted. I think its because a lot of these sort of titles have a decent audience on desktop and tablet, perhaps its also a side benefit of people coding in xamarin too.

    I was playing leo's fortune on my PC the other day - it continued from where I was up to on my phone, like a play anywhere title.

    Makes me happy - on a mobile, I social network, game, browse, listen to music, and take/edit photos - in that respect win10m has me covered.
    07-31-2017 09:35 AM
  22. Drael646464's Avatar
    Off topic
    http://i.imgur.com/wO9XGgp.jpg
    Three games that is available on pc show up on mobile store .Anyone know that

    Sent from (iOK)
    I knew that.

    There's actually a great deal of former Silverlight apps, that have been full UWP'd - I'd say the majority of mobile games are full UWP these days.

    Hydro Thunder is one, and the halo strike/assault (Warhammer freeblade is full UWP, machinarium, dream machine, leo's fortune, tiny troopers- the go series were former silverlights, now full UWP...many more actually - I think more full UWP than Silverlight nowadays)

    I reckon games is one area where win10m does alright. There's still titles coming in, and converted. I think its because a lot of these sort of titles have a decent audience on desktop and tablet, perhaps its also a side benefit of people coding in xamarin too.

    I was playing leo's fortune on my PC the other day - it continued from where I was up to on my phone, like a play anywhere title.

    Makes me happy - on a mobile, I social network, game, browse, listen to music, and take/edit photos - in that respect win10m has me covered.
    07-31-2017 09:44 AM
  23. Drael646464's Avatar
    Off topic
    http://i.imgur.com/wO9XGgp.jpg
    Three games that is available on pc show up on mobile store .Anyone know that

    Sent from (iOK)
    I knew that.

    There's actually a great deal of former Silverlight apps, that have been full UWP'd - I'd say the majority of mobile games are full UWP these days.

    Hydro Thunder is one, and the halo strike/assault (Warhammer freeblade is full UWP, machinarium, dream machine, leo's fortune, tiny troopers- the go series were former silverlights, now full UWP...many more actually - I think more full UWP than Silverlight nowadays)

    I reckon games is one area where win10m does alright. There's still titles coming in, and converted. I think its because a lot of these sort of titles have a decent audience on desktop and tablet, perhaps its also a side benefit of people coding in xamarin too.

    I was playing leo's fortune on my PC the other day - it continued from where I was up to on my phone, like a play anywhere title.

    Makes me happy - on a mobile, I social network, game, browse, listen to music, and take/edit photos - in that respect win10m has me covered.
    07-31-2017 09:44 AM
  24. faisalbaba's Avatar
    I knew that.

    There's actually a great deal of former Silverlight apps, that have been full UWP'd - I'd say the majority of mobile games are full UWP these days.

    Hydro Thunder is one, and the halo strike/assault (Warhammer freeblade is full UWP, machinarium, dream machine, leo's fortune, tiny troopers- the go series were former silverlights, now full UWP...many more actually - I think more full UWP than Silverlight nowadays)

    I reckon games is one area where win10m does alright. There's still titles coming in, and converted. I think its because a lot of these sort of titles have a decent audience on desktop and tablet, perhaps its also a side benefit of people coding in xamarin too.

    I was playing leo's fortune on my PC the other day - it continued from where I was up to on my phone, like a play anywhere title.

    Makes me happy - on a mobile, I social network, game, browse, listen to music, and take/edit photos - in that respect win10m has me covered.
    But mobile is not supported

    Sent from (iOK)
    07-31-2017 10:46 AM
  25. Drael646464's Avatar
    But mobile is not supported

    Sent from (iOK)

    Can't say I've ever heard of hydro thunder hurricane. Spartan strike/assault are win10m. Reckless racing - yeah that's a PC only game. Centennial I assume. MS studios, so if its an error, its not a good one to see :P

    I can only assume its an error tho. What else would it be?
    Last edited by Drael646464; 08-01-2017 at 02:38 AM.
    07-31-2017 09:10 PM
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