05-03-2017 01:43 AM
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  1. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    I'm a BlackBerry refugee currently marooned on iPhone Island. The beaches are nice, and all. But there's so much lacking.

    Android is off the table for many reasons I won't detail here.

    Windows Mobile, from my perspective, has so much already going for it right now. And it also has huge untapped potential as far as Continuum, UWP, etc.

    Having recently left BB10, a platform that has been abandoned by its maker, I can't help but see many parallels with the Windows Mobile situation. Even the diehard fans are abandoning ship or at least not encouraging others to stay, and I can't blame them. Microsoft is at fault, of course. But there's no sign they even care.

    And yet there are some fans passionate enough - about what Windows Mobile does now and the possibilities of what it could do in the future - to try to keep the dream alive.

    Fans like Gregory Murphy, President and CEO of WhartonBrooks - a company that has an active Indiegogo campaign going on RIGHT NOW to manufacture the Cerulean Moment - a shiny new Windows Mobile phone capable of supporting Microsoft Continuum!



    I want a Windows phone. So I've narrowed my choices down to an Alcatel Idol 4S running Windows 10, or a Cerulean Moment. And I'm leaning towards the Moment.

    All WhartonBrooks needs is 3900 backers to pledge a very reasonable $300 so they can produce the phone.

    If there had ever been an Indiegogo campaign to produce a new BB10 handset (which is impossible, because BlackBerry would never allow it), I would have been ALL OVER THAT. And surely - at least I would hope - there would have been enough BB10 fans willing to pony up and help make that happen.

    So why, as of the time I write this post, are there only 98 backers on the Cerulean Moment Indiegogo campaign with only 19 days left?!?

    It's easy to complain about the lack of new Windows Mobile hardware, but when a legitimate effort to do what the big OEMs are refusing to do - produce a modern, affordable Windows Mobile device - plops right down in front of you, what do you do?

    Continue to complain.

    "It doesn't have flagship specs."
    "It's not original, it's based off an Android reference design."
    "Its rear camera doesn't shoot in 4K."
    "The battery is too small."

    And so on and so forth.

    WhartonBrooks is trying to give you, the fans, control over the destiny of Windows handsets - an opportunity to support a company that, if successful, would surely continue to release new hardware in the future! Why are at least 3900 of you not all over this?!

    If the Cerulean Moment became a reality, maybe even some of the decision-makers at Microsoft would take notice and pay more attention to the red-headed step child that they've turned Windows Mobile into (assuming they aren't already working on reinventing themselves in the mobile space and transitioning away from the current platform is part of that plan...their complete silence on the matter doesn't instill much confidence that they even have a plan right now).

    It's easy to talk. It's easy to complain. But when an opportunity to take action and do something real slaps you in the face, that's what really counts. Will you seize that opportunity?

    Or maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe there aren't even 3900 diehard fans left. Maybe they've resigned themselves to a binary mobile future - iOS or Android. That's a pretty boring, bleak, frustrating future, if you ask me.

    I just hate to see what happened to BB10 happen to Windows Mobile, too. Especially when we, the fans, can still do something about it.

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/c...ns/x/3580312#/
    04-27-2017 11:13 AM
  2. Guytronic's Avatar
    04-27-2017 11:25 AM
  3. camaroz1985's Avatar
    I would say yes in general, but not for this phone. I don't want another mid range phone.
    buzzard75 likes this.
    04-27-2017 01:21 PM
  4. RumoredNow's Avatar
    See the above reply. Too much kvetching from "fans" who have no real altruism or desire to see the overarching goal here. They just look at their own criteria for what they want in a phone right this moment and too few will step up to buy-in despite the perceived "lack of value." (For my part I think the phone is a good value at $300 in the context of THIS platform, but they all want to compare it to Android or Heavily discounted W10M phones that are now remaindered.)

    I tried very hard to push this and heard a lot of reasons why particular people don't want to buy in and they ignore all attempts to ask why that means NOBODY should buy in. There is no answer to that, yet the cacophony of negativity has drowned out any positive voices and scared away the timid and indecisive.

    I tried super hard to push NuAns Neo as well and to get people to buy apps so developers would find it worthwhile to keep publishing apps. The user base is stingy and apathetic for the most part.

    It's why we can't have nice things.

    Please reference my post here: http://forums.windowscentral.com/gen...tm#post3651542
    04-27-2017 02:01 PM
  5. etphoto's Avatar
    I could be wrong but I get the feeling the lack of support coming from the fans is based on the lack of support coming from MS and the rumored mobile devices running W10 on Arm.

    Why support new hardware when many believe MS stops development after Redstone 3?

    If MS would actually come out tell everyone their mobile plans (I understand the reason they aren't) more fans would give support. Currently, I believe the trolls are winning in the rumor battle.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    04-27-2017 02:20 PM
  6. Travis Flenker's Avatar
    For a lot of us, it's a $300 investment where the best possible return is hopefully a different phone we can buy sometime well down the road that has the specs we want.

    Even if they were to make their goal, the real thing we want isn't a guarantee. Even if it that device does come to fruition, we'll still have to buy it then.

    That's ignoring the fact that we have no idea what MS has planned for W10M. If they do indeed ditch it for W10 on ARM and produce different form factors, I could see much more interest in backing WB if they come up with something that leverages the capabilities of the OS.

    Until MS starts making phones again or actually doing something (anything, please...) with the OS, confidence in any manufacturer using W10M is going to be extremely low. The lack of any kind of road map for the OS and no new phones being announced clearly indicate that MS is pulling back on W10M.

    I hope I am wrong, but if MS won't put in the time and effort, I don't see how anyone else is going to succeed on the platform.
    04-27-2017 03:59 PM
  7. kaktus1389's Avatar
    I think you should read Daniel Rubino's article about it - I won't support the Cerulean Moment, and neither should you — but Microsoft ought to | Windows Central . You may find an explanation why shouldn't and at the same time why don't Windows 10 Mobile fans participate in the funding. If we are realistic, we don't even know if Microsoft wants OEMs other than HP manufacturing their phones - I haven't noticed any reports that they have publicly stated anything regarding the Cerulean Moment.

    We don't know for how long will it even be useful with all the hype generated from the shift to feature2 development branch. And some of us just don't want to invest in a new phone, because we've already invested enough (read gambled) in Microsoft's phones and are still happy with them.

    Don't get me wrong - it's not that I dislike the Cerulean Moment, but I am not sure that WhartonBrooks thought this all through and of course they couldn't have predicted the shift in development branches which also made some of fans sceptical.
    04-27-2017 04:10 PM
  8. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I could be wrong but I get the feeling the lack of support coming from the fans is based on the lack of support coming from MS and the rumored mobile devices running W10 on Arm.
    IMHO the problem predates the past year or so.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there was money in Apps for this platform wouldn't the developers have stayed with more coming in?

    If there was money to be made in selling hardware on this platform, would Nokia have gone belly up doing it? Would Microsoft have shuttered Lumia production? Would Samsung, LG, HTC, BLU, Acer, Yezz, Dell, Micromax, Huawei and a host of others withdrawn?

    Our user base seems to have the misguided impression that the whole thing should be subsidized by someone not them and it will just keep rolling that way. From apps to hardware, we seem to be a cheap bunch, pinching those pennies until they scream.

    How much dough do people shell out for Apple and Samsung kit? How many devs continue to make a living off those App stores?

    Our high water mark was Cyan. That is long gone and everyone watched it recede...

    Now we are backed into a corner and people don't even want to give a dollar or five. You don't even have to buy in and get the phone you loath so much, just give a couple bucks as a pledge. But that's too much to ask.

    And what other phones are coming out this year for W10M?

    The fans have spoken, they don't really want any 3rd party OEMs... Time after time they have been rejected, neglected, dejected and ejected...

    Reminds me of a song...


    04-27-2017 09:40 PM
  9. buzzard75's Avatar
    If it were a device that were better than what I currently own, then yes, I would. It's not. I have a phone that's three years old with a better processor, a larger and better display, a better camera, and is actually compatible with my current cell phone provider. This one just misses too many of the check boxes for me.
    04-28-2017 06:11 AM
  10. Sedp23's Avatar
    That phone isn't worth $300 and that's the problem

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Boutsen likes this.
    04-28-2017 07:20 AM
  11. camaroz1985's Avatar
    See the above reply. Too much kvetching from "fans" who have no real altruism or desire to see the overarching goal here. They just look at their own criteria for what they want in a phone right this moment and too few will step up to buy-in despite the perceived "lack of value." (For my part I think the phone is a good value at $300 in the context of THIS platform, but they all want to compare it to Android or Heavily discounted W10M phones that are now remaindered.)

    I tried very hard to push this and heard a lot of reasons why particular people don't want to buy in and they ignore all attempts to ask why that means NOBODY should buy in. There is no answer to that, yet the cacophony of negativity has drowned out any positive voices and scared away the timid and indecisive.

    I tried super hard to push NuAns Neo as well and to get people to buy apps so developers would find it worthwhile to keep publishing apps. The user base is stingy and apathetic for the most part.

    It's why we can't have nice things.

    Please reference my post here: http://forums.windowscentral.com/gen...tm#post3651542
    Because I won't spend my money on a device that I neither need nor want, I am not a fan?

    I know the thought is that an investment now will lead to better devices in the future, and that is what a "fan" would do. Based on the current regression to crowd funding for Wharton Brooks (and spin it any way you want, relying on crowd funding is one step above throwing in the towel), it seems like a very, very long shot that you will ever see a return on that investment, and fan or not, I'm not that careless with my money. If they released a true high end phone from the start, I would be more inclined to "invest".
    04-28-2017 10:29 AM
  12. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Right, $5 is too much.
    04-28-2017 11:18 AM
  13. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    Right, $5 is too much.
    Give me a few minutes, i'll start a kickstarter for you to give me $5. For the greater good of Windows Mobile, of course.
    libra89 likes this.
    04-28-2017 12:41 PM
  14. camaroz1985's Avatar
    5 cents is too much. This thread is hoping for 3900 fans who would invest $300 in THIS company. By doing so you are not ensuring the future of Windows Mobile. Sadly, neither this phone, nor Wharton Brooks in general is the savior that Windows Mobile needs. It really is all up to Microsoft.
    04-28-2017 01:07 PM
  15. dgr_874's Avatar
    Why would I even invest $5 in a device I don't want, don't need, and isn't an upgrade?

    You can't shame me into trying to support this. I was (and still am for the time being) all in on Microsoft and their products. I started all the way back on At&t with the Tilt 2. I had the 900, LG Optimus 7, two 920's, 3 1520's, two original Xbox One's, two Xbox One S, Elite controller, two 8" Full windows tablets, two Microsoft Display adapters, Gaming PC running windows 10 (that I gave up my Windows Media Center for because I believed the hype about "windows 10 unified and running on everything and DVR on my Xbox One" garbage.

    I have been paying for Office 365 and xbox live for over 3 years now and have plans to keep paying for it. I bought quite a few apps that were in the app store. Including the $9.99 ones because they were worth it (Bookvisor) and I wanted to support the dev (Rudy Hyun).

    So now I am supposed to feel guilty that I don't contribute to a platform that the owner wont even comment on its future?

    Microsoft failed me (and others), I didn't fail them...
    04-28-2017 01:51 PM
  16. anthonyng's Avatar
    It's reach, message is not getting out probably, there probably isn't even 3900 people that regularly come here to even know about this

    If all windows phones could be spammed with a notification about this, it might work :D But that would open a whole other can of worms :D
    04-28-2017 02:46 PM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    IMHO the problem predates the past year or so.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if there was money in Apps for this platform wouldn't the developers have stayed with more coming in?

    If there was money to be made in selling hardware on this platform, would Nokia have gone belly up doing it? Would Microsoft have shuttered Lumia production? Would Samsung, LG, HTC, BLU, Acer, Yezz, Dell, Micromax, Huawei and a host of others withdrawn?

    Our user base seems to have the misguided impression that the whole thing should be subsidized by someone not them and it will just keep rolling that way. From apps to hardware, we seem to be a cheap bunch, pinching those pennies until they scream.

    How much dough do people shell out for Apple and Samsung kit? How many devs continue to make a living off those App stores?

    Our high water mark was Cyan. That is long gone and everyone watched it recede...

    Now we are backed into a corner and people don't even want to give a dollar or five. You don't even have to buy in and get the phone you loath so much, just give a couple bucks as a pledge. But that's too much to ask.

    And what other phones are coming out this year for W10M?

    The fans have spoken, they don't really want any 3rd party OEMs... Time after time they have been rejected, neglected, dejected and ejected...

    Reminds me of a song...


    Well, I think you had your points proven by the above posts.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    RumoredNow likes this.
    04-28-2017 04:34 PM
  18. kaktus1389's Avatar
    All I am going to add is:

    1. that I already invested in a phone from Microsoft and I do not need and also cannot afford an extra one. Cerulean Moment is 300$ and I paid 334€ for my Lumia 950 (1$ = 0.92€)

    2. invested in several apps on the platform even if the apps were later offered for free

    3. would invest in Groove Music if it would be available in my region

    4. Bought office 365 subscription and not torrent it like 90% of people

    5. There is a difference between can't afford, don't need and don't want to buy because I expect someone else to subsidize it.
    04-28-2017 05:13 PM
  19. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Give me a few minutes, i'll start a kickstarter for you to give me $5. For the greater good of Windows Mobile, of course.
    If you need the $5 just ask.
    04-28-2017 06:28 PM
  20. Awhispersecho's Avatar
    So, I'm going to try my best to stay as calm as possible but these threads and the ongoing comments by people trying to coerce us into supporting this phone and blaming those of us who don't for the failure of Windows Phone is really making my blood boil. People are being way to free with other peoples money and way to aggressive in telling them what they should do with their money.

    First of all. As someone who has bought 6 Windows Phones over the last 5 years, and has spent tens of thousands of dollars on MS products, I find it offensive that anyone could try to say that if I or anyone else like me doesn't contribute to this phone, We are the ones to blame for the failure of Windows Phone. MS is the only 1 to blame here and frankly, we have been way more supportive of, and patient with them than they deserve.

    Second of all. Supporting this phone won't do a damn thing to determine the destiny of Windows handsets. In addition to that, even if this phone got funded and released, the idea that Wharton Brooks is going to release a killer phone (or any phone for that matter) next year is absurd. How are they going to release a phone for an OS that won't exist? An OS that is dead. The wriiting is on the wall. In fact, there is so much writing on the wall that you can't even see the wall anymore. Windows Mobile on phones is dead, done. If MS wasn't done with Windows Mobile on phones they would have supported the Moment just to have another phone out there to try and keep some developers working on the OS. They won't do it.

    Third thing. Selling 3,900, or 3,9000 of these phones isn't going to do anything to change the minds of anyone at MS. The CEO does not believe in Windows Phones, he is a cloud and services guy who if he had his way, would have no consumer side to the business at all. He backed out of the mobile market. The only market that attracts developers, the only market that would have allowed UWP to be a success, he backed out of it. In fact, that move should show you that he doesn't even care about Windows the OS. Everything they were doing with Windows 10 revolved around their UWP platform and he chose to leave the market that would have driven that platform.

    Look, I'm disgusted at MS. Hell, I just bought a 950XL. I can't begin to describe my disgust for them and Nadella and everything they've done the last 18 months or so. But I am so sick of people trying to shove this down our throats. Instead of being mad at those of us who don't support this phone, be mad at MS for putting us in this position. Complain at them instead of complaining to us. Maybe that's an action you guys can take instead of telling the rest of us what we should be doing.

    Finally. The idea that anyone should be telling anyone else what to do with their money is a real issue. It is none of your business what anyone else does with their money. If someone doesn't want to support something that is their decision. They don't owe you an explanation and they don't deserve to be coerced or made to feel guilty. No one here shares any responsibility at all at the failure of Windows Phones and the future failure that may come to MS. We are the ones that have kept MS as relevant as they still are these past few years that have been dominated by Google and Apple.

    If you want to support the phone, by all means support it. I hope a miracle happens and Windows Phones make a comeback because I absolutely love them. However, selling 3900 phones isn't going to do that, only MS could make that happen. But those of you that keep trying to push this on us and shove it down our throats while telling us what to do with our money when you have no idea what financial situation people may be in really need to reign it in. You have gone to a place you have no business being in and it's getting really old.

    By the way. Don't you think there may be a reason he set a funding goal he knows they won't come close to reaching?
    04-28-2017 07:16 PM
  21. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Firstly, I can't identify every user's purchase levels. However, I do see a trend having spent a long time in this community. A lot of the "cheapskates" don't really post that much or get into philosophical discussions about what it costs to maintain this platform.

    If it doesn't apply to you personally, awesome. And please don't then take it personally. If your conscience is clear that you have financially supported the platform, I applaud you. But if you read as many posts as I have around these issues you should likely have seen that there really is a majority of users that don't even want to spend $0.99 on an app and they buy all their phones either used or deeply discounted.


    By the way. Don't you think there may be a reason he set a funding goal he knows they won't come close to reaching?
    I'm pretty sure that is the amount needed to place the order without loosing his house in the process.
    Ariel Takom and libra89 like this.
    04-28-2017 07:26 PM
  22. Awhispersecho's Avatar
    While I think it's a while different argument, I do agree with the app issue. I look at an app that costs me a buck or 2 and still find it hard to believe that I can buy something that will either provide me with entertainment or a service for that cheap. In fact, I prefer paid apps over free apps as I feel they may be safer, more developed and have less or no ads. But yes, people that complain about paying a buck for an app are ridiculous. I agree with you on that, I just don't think it's quite comparable to the original topic.
    04-28-2017 08:02 PM
  23. TgeekB's Avatar
    Its certainly unfair to label people on an online forum because none of us know each other well enough to know what type of people we are. Therefore, I don't think people should take threads like this personal.

    The overall premise of the thread, across the entire MS user base, makes sense though. Part (a large part) of why iPhone is so successful is because the user base is willing to sit in line for days to overpay for the product. That's why they sell more phones. That's why they have more apps. From an OS standpoint, is iOS better than W10 or is it just the apps? Everyone here says its the apps. Devs won't support the platform if users don't. It works both ways, right? Just something to think about when we just want to blame MS. We all own a piece.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-28-2017 08:27 PM
  24. Drael646464's Avatar
    If the crowdfunders wanted smaller token monetary support - why didn't they allow for smaller donations?

    Bet if there was no minimum pledge, they'd have a lot more momentum.
    Ariel Takom likes this.
    04-29-2017 04:30 AM
  25. Drael646464's Avatar
    Its certainly unfair to label people on an online forum because none of us know each other well enough to know what type of people we are. Therefore, I don't think people should take threads like this personal.

    The overall premise of the thread, across the entire MS user base, makes sense though. Part (a large part) of why iPhone is so successful is because the user base is willing to sit in line for days to overpay for the product. That's why they sell more phones. That's why they have more apps. From an OS standpoint, is iOS better than W10 or is it just the apps? Everyone here says its the apps. Devs won't support the platform if users don't. It works both ways, right? Just something to think about when we just want to blame MS. We all own a piece.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Well exactly that perspective is entirely circular.

    Its the users primarily that drive development.

    If you leave the platform, complain about it, and your complaint is apps - you're actually a contributor more than MS is. MS can't _make_ users. It can try and entice them, but it can't make them. It can't pay off developers, or force them. It can only entice them. It's done a very good job of trying with all its recent apis, and will do an even better job with unification across platforms this year.

    Users however are the biggest factor. Consumers to pay for the apps.
    Ariel Takom, TgeekB and RumoredNow like this.
    04-29-2017 04:35 AM
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