05-21-2017 10:03 AM
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  1. techiez's Avatar
    I think they didn't talk mobile at build because they will talk future of mobile at may 23 event in china

    Sent from mTalk

    Actually Shanghai is a good place to introduce new hardware(mobile), afterall WPs were popular in Asia.
    05-14-2017 05:48 AM
  2. garisa's Avatar
    Yeah, right, that's why we can download offline maps for Japan, Korea, China, etc... (Just sarcastic, you can't download them actually.) It's funny how we keep hoping while through don't care. If they are about to release a new devices, it's going to be in the USA first. Even though people in Europe like those phones more. Unless it would be a phone released for Chinese market only.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    05-14-2017 05:53 AM
  3. Drael646464's Avatar
    Yeah, right, that's why we can download offline maps for Japan, Korea, China, etc... (Just sarcastic, you can't download them actually.) It's funny how we keep hoping while through don't care. If they are about to release a new devices, it's going to be in the USA first. Even though people in Europe like those phones more. Unless it would be a phone released for Chinese market only.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    Honestly I think if one is under the impression any corporation "cares" that should be dispelled.

    I like MS stuff. I like their direction. MS is pretty charitable, which is cool. But I don't trust any corporation, and I certainly don't believe any of them "care". Business is about cold hard choices, success is usually built on them. In that, I'm far more inclined to trust "the little guy" who is motivated to go out of their way to distinguish themselves, and is also, I guess less burdened by experience.
    NYCMetsPDX and JediTWang like this.
    05-14-2017 06:41 AM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think they didn't talk mobile at build because they will talk future of mobile at may 23 event in china

    Sent from mTalk
    This is possible. With windows on ARM for tablets planned, a likely surface mini style device may be somewhere in the works. China is a place with a few major manufacturers of smartphones and tablets - Oppo, Leveno, Hauwei and Xiaomi and Shanghai is their trade capital.

    The could be demoing the prototype for the "mobile pc", so they can get some OEM partners onboard, and if they do, they will be also talking generally mobility/telephony, so will have to address their general vision for it.

    It could also be something else they unveil, but its certainly interesting that they are presenting this in a country that possess all three of the fastest growing mobile phone companies. I doubt its a phone per se, but it seems likely to be a related technology.
    JediTWang likes this.
    05-14-2017 06:48 AM
  5. anon(9809330)'s Avatar
    Maybe (hopefully) this fall we might see a HP X3 refresh and or an Idol 5S come out with Snapdragon 835 that can run RS3. It was tested with Snapdragon 820 and these are the only Windows phones that have them. No interest what so ever in IOS or Android.
    05-14-2017 02:52 PM
  6. Sedp23's Avatar
    Build only showed they care about every other mobile os but Windows 10 Mobile

    Sent from Idol 4s
    05-14-2017 09:10 PM
  7. Marek Tyrpa's Avatar
    I was at build and here are some of my thoughts.

    Windows Phone had almost no presence at the conference. When they announced the new Azure Mobile Management App, it was announced for iOS and Android, later through a tweet someone at MS mentioned that a UWP app is in the works. This is cryptic because UWP does not necessarily mean a mobile app. Yeah I know that most people use iOS/Android, but MS is NOT some struggling startup, with extremely limited resources. You mean to tell me they could not have developed a UWP/Mobile app at the same time as their iOS/Android offerings? Especially since they now own Xamarin, and keep promoting the whole: write once, run everywhere line... Also the HP Elite was marketed as a business phone, and apparently enough customers wanted HP to make a phone so they would have one OEM for all of their IT needs. So not supporting those customers with what is clearly a business app is a bit strange.

    LinkedIn: The ink has long dried, and they are now part of MS. So why no update to the Windows Mobile App? MS has the iOS bridge to Windows Mobile. You would think they could get a intern or two to take the LinkedIn iOS app and port it to Mobile through their own bridge!?!?!? Wishful thinking is that they might be developing a from the ground UWP re-write, but before that is done, how hard would it be to use the bridge and port the iOS app?!?!? MS cannot even be bothered to do that, using their own tech? That speaks volumes right there...

    NO mention of the Fall Creators Update coming to Mobile. NO demos of their new design language on Mobile. NO news at all about mobile.

    I had a chat with a MS engineer on the last day of Build. It was a really good conversation. He mentioned how Satya has changed the mandate of the Company from Devices and Services (Ballmer) to a Services and Platforms mandate. This was very clear at this year's Build. The Azure Keynote was presented on the first day, and the Windows Keynote on the second. This was the first year, Windows took a back seat. Previous Build's had OEM's present showing off their latest wares. This year, not a OEM, or device in sight. It was all Azure and Graph, with a lot of HoloLens thrown in.

    To show how little devices mattered, they had the Cortana speaker on stage during a demo, with NO details about it mentioned. In fact you would be forgiven to think it was a new Amazon Echo on stage... Sure we all know it was not, but damn not even a peep about, oh yeah here is our new Cortana speaker...

    Even Windows on ARM was only mentioned through a supplemental video released through Channel 9. I know this stuff may not be ready yet, but at least give us something to be excited about.

    I feel Windows Mobile as entered maintenance mode. While they did not give an exact release date for the Fall Update, Fall is not that far away. So I don't buy the, we needed to break the branch to do some work on the Core before Mobile catches up to the Desktop branch. With 4 to 5 months left before release, if Redstone3 does not appear on Mobile before mid June, you can bet Mobile is dead, and they are just maintaining it for contract reasons.
    05-16-2017 09:56 AM
  8. theefman's Avatar
    When looked at objectively only the most devoted Microsoft fan would say this platform is anything but dead. No meaningful developer interest, no new phones despite unfounded claims by posters, no significant software advances to the OS beyond bugfixes, number of supported devices diminishing with each update and finally Microsoft going out of their way to say absolutely nothing about their future plans for the OS. How can anyone with a rational mind say this is a viable platform?

    None of this means the OS itself is bad in its usage, though its still not on par with the best WP8 had to offer, but there's no question Microsoft as a company sees the platform as not worth their time and its incredible to see people inventing excuses on their behalf when the company itself cant be bothered to be forthright with its ever diminishing userbase.
    05-16-2017 10:01 AM
  9. pallentx's Avatar
    What I take from it is that Windows will never be more than a desktop OS and will slowly dwindle from relevance. UWP has nothing compelling for developers if there are no mobile devices.
    05-16-2017 10:14 AM
  10. Tunde Fajimi's Avatar
    Thank you for that! I do believe Microsoft is doing a bit of a Trojan horse to win customers to their services' UI and UX on competing desktop and mobile platforms, then when they fully execute Fluent and Mixed Reality they can have the best and most-intuitive services on new form-factor devices.

    I also have a theory that why so many staff and executives of Microsoft are permitted to use other platforms devices is part of the process of gaining better understanding of what makes them tick and studying them sufficiently to one-up them when the platform is ready to evolve and expand the user experience beyond the current smartphone-focused computing generation.

    I think BUILD was positive for Windows mobile enthusiasts. Although the focus was on integrating Microsoft services with android and IoS was the focus, Windows powered mobiles were present. This would simply not have been the case if Windows mobile was "dead".

    I have a theory that Microsoft is integrating its services with android and IoS not only because it's great business sense, but also in order to pinch those customers later on. A big stumbling block for Windows mobile was that too many people were too integrated with Google or Apple services which made switching to Windows mobile out of the question. If Microsoft can get people using Microsoft service, OneDrive instead of iCloud or Google Drive, etc, then it will make it easier for those consumers to switch to a Windows powered device in the future whatever that iteration may be. Windows 10 S already seems like an effort to boost the Windows store by locking people into it which should hopefully help with the app gap by attracting developers to create UWP apps. And the prestige they're building with the Surface brand means a phone with that brand, with all other factors included, could be huge.
    05-16-2017 10:19 AM
  11. guidorobben's Avatar
    See the Groove App. Check the Hamburger menu.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-16-2017 10:24 AM
  12. VITNE's Avatar
    I think Build was actually very revealing for mobile...it just wasn't direct, as in "this is what's happening with Win10 Mobile". The Windows 10 ARM presentation said it all.

    Microsofts whole point of OneCore is to have one Windows, not desktop and mobile iterations. One Windows. Windows 10 ARM was running super smooth on a Snapdragon chip, and they demonstrated installing Win32 programs and how seamless it all was. Look at the size of the demo unit they were running it on. I bet with Cshell and Continuum, it will be a full desktop once plugged into a screen, not a "desktop like" experience anymore. UWP apps run in phone mode, but plug it into a monitor, now you've got UWP and win32 programs.

    This is the next step. This is blurring the lines of mobile and desktop.
    05-16-2017 10:30 AM
  13. Tunde Fajimi's Avatar
    Microsoft has a long term strategy and no short term. They acknowledge that the mobile OS wars are lost, so they are trying to keep Windows 10 relevant in today's world, until the OS is ready for use as a mobile phone also. Microsoft wants that people use its services. This is more important to the company, than having a dominant mobile OS.I think that Microsoft is doing the right thing here, by making its products even better. When the time comes, we will certainly see a mobile device from Microsoft that will be very interesting to consumers.
    I would say it's the smartphone-form-factor wars that they lost, not so much the "mobile OS" wars, since there will always be a need for one-handheld or pocket-able devices. The OS and use experience will become mobile. That's the end goal. One water-resistant device (in your ear and water-resistant for example) for that extra mobility, with Cortana (like the AI in the movie "Her") guiding your experience, logging you in contextually with relevant services for home or work (maybe with IoT/geofencing/presence recognition determining your desired use case, apps and data).

    The technology is almost there, more or less, the user experience mobility and flexibility and devices need to catch up, and Microsoft is the closest to achieving this, electing to suffer short-to-medium term losses in the mean time.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-16-2017 10:31 AM
  14. DarrenSproat's Avatar
    I think, at best, Microsoft's mobile strategy is blurry. It is clear the Windows10S, UWP, Windows Store, and the entire concept of converged computing experience across all devices/platforms is their focus and I believe they need significant traction in all those areas before a truly Microsoft mobile push can be sustained. Only when those areas demonstrate traction with industry will the time be right to make a push into the strictly mobile market... Remember, Windows 10 IS a mobile OS.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-16-2017 10:35 AM
  15. TheZeeMan's Avatar
    I don't believe it's like that. Firstly, how is Cortana going to replace my recently lost banking app. Cortana cannot replace applications, it actually depends of applications. And secondly, in many situations it's far easier for us to handle something on a screen than by speech. Not to mention to for these speech commands you actually need to learn how to communicate with Cortana. Far from that she can understand you like computer from USS Enterprise. 😉

    I think that this build was far from positive. It more looks to me like Microsoft actually focuses on mobile, but not on their platform but on bringing their services to mobile platforms - primarily to Android and iOS.
    I have to agree with this. Real-world scenarios barely anyone talks to their phones because its not always convenient nor private, secure, and sometimes annoying. Let's say you want to voice text someone something very personal, you are not going to say it out loud. Banking, seriously, why would you want other people to hear what you are doing? Try doing this stuff in a restaurant with background noise. It barely works. The reality is mobile as a whole is at a standstill and no one knows for how long. Maybe if I can get an AR phone that works on my hand or whatever, something will change, until then, we're all at a stalemate and I think MS knows this.
    05-16-2017 10:44 AM
  16. HarnessTech's Avatar
    I seriously believe that they are purposely keeping us in the dark and keeping it very low key because they want the WOW factor when they release some new next-generation device (Surface Phone anyone?). Obviously, I could be wrong, but that is my take on the situation.

    Earlier this year, I purchased an Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows and it is a great phone (except the camera is disappointing after moving from a Lumia 1520). However, I'm a web developer and am adding new tools to my toolbox to better serve my clients -- many of those tools require (at least in terms of my plans) to have mobile apps to support them. Sadly, apps do not exist for these platforms on Windows Mobile.

    So I bit the bullet and bought a Galaxy S8+. While I can say it is a great phone, at least when only compared with other Android phones, I already miss Windows Mobile. With Android, everything (EVERYTHING) is more complicated than it needs to be and a lot of stuff is buried or hard to find. In fact, I think it is over-saturated with "features". I have attempted to simplify some things and have had some success. But in the end, it's still Android.

    Also, the Outlook app is a bit buggy -- when I receive a notification that I have a new email, I tap on the notification and it opens Outlook, then attempts to open the message. After about 30 seconds, it gives up and says it can't open it. The message doesn't even appear in the list of messages -- but wait -- if you just let it sit for about another minute, the message will magically appear in the list and then you can read it.

    I'm also using the Arrow Launcher (by Microsoft) and it's pretty nice (for Android). I really wish they'd at least make it look like Windows Mobile, but I also understand why that's probably not a good idea.

    So yeah, I really, really, really, REALLY miss Windows Mobile and find myself considering going back to the Idol 4S and trying to find a way to deal with the missing apps I need. But, for now, I'm forcing myself to stick with it to see if I can "conform" until the Surface Phone surfaces (see what I did there?) and hopefully that kickstarts app developers to come back. PLEASE tell me there will be a Surface Phone....
    05-16-2017 10:46 AM
  17. VITNE's Avatar
    I seriously believe that they are purposely keeping us in the dark and keeping it very low key because they want the WOW factor when they release some new next-generation device (Surface Phone anyone?). Obviously, I could be wrong, but that is my take on the situation.

    Earlier this year, I purchased an Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows and it is a great phone (except the camera is disappointing after moving from a Lumia 1520). However, I'm a web developer and am adding new tools to my toolbox to better serve my clients -- many of those tools require (at least in terms of my plans) to have mobile apps to support them. Sadly, apps do not exist for these platforms on Windows Mobile.

    So I bit the bullet and bought a Galaxy S8+. While I can say it is a great phone, at least when only compared with other Android phones, I already miss Windows Mobile. With Android, everything (EVERYTHING) is more complicated than it needs to be and a lot of stuff is buried or hard to find. In fact, I think it is over-saturated with "features". I have attempted to simplify some things and have had some success. But in the end, it's still Android.

    Also, the Outlook app is a bit buggy -- when I receive a notification that I have a new email, I tap on the notification and it opens Outlook, then attempts to open the message. After about 30 seconds, it gives up and says it can't open it. The message doesn't even appear in the list of messages -- but wait -- if you just let it sit for about another minute, the message will magically appear in the list and then you can read it.

    I'm also using the Arrow Launcher (by Microsoft) and it's pretty nice (for Android). I really wish they'd at least make it look like Windows Mobile, but I also understand why that's probably not a good idea.

    So yeah, I really, really, really, REALLY miss Windows Mobile and find myself considering going back to the Idol 4S and trying to find a way to deal with the missing apps I need. But, for now, I'm forcing myself to stick with it to see if I can "conform" until the Surface Phone surfaces (see what I did there?) and hopefully that kickstarts app developers to come back. PLEASE tell me there will be a Surface Phone....
    Im not a developer, but in the past year and a half, ive used four different mobile platforms. iOS, Android, W10M, and Ubuntu Touch. As much as I attempted to like Android, and it does have it's moments, it is my least favorite. Like you said, the apps can be buggy. I've noticed the same regarding Outlook. As a whole, I'd say the Microsoft app experience is much more solid on iOS. The only app I've had crash on me in iOS is Groove sometimes. Outlook works well, as do OneDrive, OneNote, Word, as well as their other apps like MSN news and Money. I think the only thing I really like about Android is that the emulators (like Playstation) are quite good.

    Ubuntu was an interesting experience, and strangely enough I liked it better than Android. It felt original and I loved the gestures and the slide-out menu, though it was obviously quite beta. Its no longer in development anymore though.

    I keep coming back to Windows on phones. I just enjoy it. I've been switching back and forth from my new iPhone 7 Plus, which I got based on logical thinking (Facetime and iMessage with family and friends since they all have iphone), but I keep switching back to my Lumia 950 XL to see how I fare without some "needed" apps, and testing the differences between apps. No matter how much I think to myself that it makes more sense to use iPhone because of iMessage and stuff, I feel a more emotional connection to Windows I guess you would say. Its just fun. Pretty deep stuff huh? Hahaha

    I do think something is coming on the Windows-on-phones front.
    Muessig and Jason Rosenthal like this.
    05-16-2017 11:07 AM
  18. sumton's Avatar
    Before BUILD I know a lot of us around here were hoping that Microsoft would have some news regarding the future of their mobile vision. Since that didn't happen... Silence says it all? Anyone want to make their own interpretation?

    Seems like more than anything Build highlighted Microsoft's commitment to platform agnostic growth. My own take is they're going full speed ahead with mixed reality and cloud. Windows Phone is not a priority, it no longer completes either of those two visions. It's like everyone else said... the future is devices you can bring with you, just not the kind we currently put in our pocket. But until a full transition is made it's better to focus on the devices currently shaping the market and not ones of MS' own design.

    Considering what they showed off this seems like the right move. Windows Phone was clearly holding them back. Without having to commit so heavily to the platform they can invest elsewhere... and it seems to be paying off in spades.


    its a clear massage there is no future for this OS in the company future the investment goes to android, ios and windows 10 ( . )
    CraigCole likes this.
    05-16-2017 11:28 AM
  19. MrockNroll's Avatar
    Thank you Harness Tech for confirming what I already knew about android OS. That its STILL a convoluted mess and that they should include a 40 page manual on how to use it!! While I will agree that Samsung has a great looking phone/hardware it could be even better if they released a Win 10 mobile version. Good luck on your Android journey, meanwhile I will keep enjoying my Lumia 950XL even more, its working even better after the latest update. ;-) PS don't sell your Alcatel 4s Yet!
    Charis Ntouroutlis likes this.
    05-16-2017 11:46 AM
  20. jeffchapik's Avatar
    I'm also using the Arrow Launcher (by Microsoft) and it's pretty nice (for Android). I really wish they'd at least make it look like Windows Mobile, but I also understand why that's probably not a good idea.
    Try Launcher 10. My Android start screen now looks just like my Lumia 640 did. That, combined with Textra for SMS and the SwiftKey keyboard, and it's almost like W10M again.
    05-16-2017 12:05 PM
  21. tczinder's Avatar
    I was really hoping for some good news re: W10M at build. Loved my HTC 8X, Lumia 635, Lumia 640, and Lumia 650. Became increasingly frustrated and saddened by the state of W10M...BUILD did nothing to help me feel better about defending W10M and using it in spite of its quirks and workarounds and whatnot.

    I bought an iPhone 7 on Friday. I use a Mac at work. Seemed like a no-brainer. I'll tell you...so far, so good. Everything just...works. I had an iPhone back in the days of the iPhone 3G, and I'm amazed at the innovation that has taken place between then and now. W10M feels clunky by comparison.

    While I miss the W10M interface (second to none, in my opinion), I see iOS serving me well for years to come.
    CraigCole likes this.
    05-16-2017 12:22 PM
  22. captblaze's Avatar
    I learned that if an iPhone is good enough for them (many a Microsoft leader) it is good enough for me, although I will take a hit initially on a new eco system, at least the fruit company stands by their products for longer than most
    05-16-2017 12:24 PM
  23. Xaxxus's Avatar
    I think BUILD was positive for Windows mobile enthusiasts. Although the focus was on integrating Microsoft services with android and IoS was the focus, Windows powered mobiles were present. This would simply not have been the case if Windows mobile was "dead".

    I have a theory that Microsoft is integrating its services with android and IoS not only because it's great business sense, but also in order to pinch those customers later on. A big stumbling block for Windows mobile was that too many people were too integrated with Google or Apple services which made switching to Windows mobile out of the question. If Microsoft can get people using Microsoft service, OneDrive instead of iCloud or Google Drive, etc, then it will make it easier for those consumers to switch to a Windows powered device in the future whatever that iteration may be. Windows 10 S already seems like an effort to boost the Windows store by locking people into it which should hopefully help with the app gap by attracting developers to create UWP apps. And the prestige they're building with the Surface brand means a phone with that brand, with all other factors included, could be huge.
    The problem is, Microsoft cant really integrate its services properly into iOS and android.

    The devices dont come out of the box with microsofts services on them. Most consumers arent going to go out of their way to download onedrive or skype or outlook if they arent handed them on a silver platter.

    You get an iOS device, you are handed icloud and apple services. You get an android device, you are handed google services.

    If microsoft wants to get its services to be the most used services, they need to have a phone that is popular enough to get a large enough audience into the microsoft ecosystem.

    As it stands now, regardless if you have a windows PC or not, if you have an android, your more likely using gmail and google drive. Iphone is a wierd beast.

    Most people who use iphones dont use the icloud as their primary service. Mainly because they came so late in the game and with lesser functionality.
    Luuthian likes this.
    05-16-2017 12:57 PM
  24. mymarcio's Avatar
    To be very short and direct - their new developing tool for Windows/iOS/Android if takes off would most likely allow the apps to show up in iOS/Android/Windows(PC/Mobile).

    Of course just because a tool exists, it doesn't mean it will be used. With Microsoft really trying to make Windows a developer machine who knows? It's a switch that won't happen over night since this will fall now on the next generation of new developers to pick up and leverage.

    I'm not confident well established companies will try to leverage this just yet -- until they see it being successful first.

    Where does this leave Windows Mobile? (Well since Windows mobile essentially will run what's on Windows 10 PC... it's just a matter of time they make a Windows 10 Pro phone)
    05-16-2017 01:05 PM
  25. Julian Barker's Avatar
    The future of our beloved platform lies in Windows On ARM which was certainly mentioned. Windows phone, Windows RT and Windows mobile is already a hobbled version of WOA. The great thing about WOA is that it loads exe files without any issues so Continuum will run smoothly. Now the unanswered question is whether the Google suite will work ok. In theory they should be fine, right?

    The future of Windows on phones is bright in my opinion.

    I look forward to the live tiles being shown via the cshell.....
    05-16-2017 01:10 PM
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