06-05-2017 07:46 AM
29 12
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  1. savagelizards's Avatar
    Okay, I understand that Verizon doesn't like choices. And I understand that Microsoft's current phone strategy is not to build phones themselves - at least for the present.

    But third party phone makers like Alcatel and HP are building windows phones, and this doesn't' appear ready to change anytime soon. So why not include CDMA support for Verizon customers? It can't cost that much, and with Verizon's market share in the US there's bound to be lots of windows customers that would buy an unlocked device to use on Verizon's network.

    My Icon is so old that it's no longer supported with the current OS, and since I can't leave Verizon, I have no upgrade path at all. Why create an OS at all if there's no hardware support for the carrier with the largest market share?

    If there was a Verizon variant of the Alcatel or HP Elite I would buy it tomorrow. If you are on Verizon and still using W10m, do you agree?
    05-27-2017 08:35 AM
  2. etphoto's Avatar
    The way I understand it, Verizon charges a pretty penny for hardware manufactures.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    05-27-2017 09:13 AM
  3. RumoredNow's Avatar
    The way I understand it, OEMs get charged a LOT to get the certifications from the company Verizon designates to test network compatibility.
    05-27-2017 03:17 PM
  4. LuxuryTouringZone's Avatar
    Windows phones would do a lot better if Microsoft would just make them available on all carriers in Canada and America.
    Rod Iron and aximtreo like this.
    05-27-2017 07:41 PM
  5. xandros9's Avatar
    Windows phones would do a lot better if Microsoft would just make them available on all carriers in Canada and America.
    Doesn't seem like that mattered to them for a while now though.
    05-27-2017 08:17 PM
  6. Rod Iron's Avatar
    The answer is simple... Nutella!
    05-27-2017 11:57 PM
  7. savagelizards's Avatar
    The way I understand it, OEMs get charged a LOT to get the certifications from the company Verizon designates to test network compatibility.
    If that's the case that would be a roadblock for sure. It's a shame though, that Verizon would be erecting roadblocks even for a company the size of HP. The Elite would give them something their portfolio lacks atm, a more IT Dept friendly phone.
    05-28-2017 12:11 AM
  8. L0n3N1nja's Avatar
    Because they don't sell. I worked for Verizon when Windows 8 launched, we got trained on them and although I liked the UI myself many of my coworkers didn't and we couldn't sell the phones. Everyone wanted Apple for the App Store, FaceTime and I message, even Android was a tough sell in 2012.

    We had a large inventory of Windows 8 devices and BlackBerry 10 devices at our store, sat there long enough to depreciate in value and we sold them off at a loss to remove them from inventory. They became an order as needed product, or we just referred the rare customer that wanted one to order it off the website.

    Then Microsoft bought Nokias phone division, Verizon quit selling the Nokia Windows phones the same week. Samsung and HTC quit offering flagship Windows phones shortly after. I'm a Verizon customer, and its why I've never owned a Windows phone.
    xandros9 and Laura Knotek like this.
    05-28-2017 02:25 AM
  9. etphoto's Avatar
    Because they don't sell. I worked for Verizon when Windows 8 launched, we got trained on them and although I liked the UI myself many of my coworkers didn't and we couldn't sell the phones. Everyone wanted Apple for the App Store, FaceTime and I message, even Android was a tough sell in 2012.

    We had a large inventory of Windows 8 devices and BlackBerry 10 devices at our store, sat there long enough to depreciate in value and we sold them off at a loss to remove them from inventory. They became an order as needed product, or we just referred the rare customer that wanted one to order it off the website.

    Then Microsoft bought Nokias phone division, Verizon quit selling the Nokia Windows phones the same week. Samsung and HTC quit offering flagship Windows phones shortly after. I'm a Verizon customer, and its why I've never owned a Windows phone.

    You liked the UI and you never owned a Windows Phone? I've been a Verizon customer for 17 years and I've owned three WPs.

    There have been many threads over the years related to Verizon employees and WPs.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    05-28-2017 06:31 AM
  10. savagelizards's Avatar
    Because they don't sell. I worked for Verizon when Windows 8 launched, we got trained on them and although I liked the UI myself many of my coworkers didn't and we couldn't sell the phones. Everyone wanted Apple for the App Store, FaceTime and I message, even Android was a tough sell in 2012.

    We had a large inventory of Windows 8 devices and BlackBerry 10 devices at our store, sat there long enough to depreciate in value and we sold them off at a loss to remove them from inventory. They became an order as needed product, or we just referred the rare customer that wanted one to order it off the website.

    Then Microsoft bought Nokias phone division, Verizon quit selling the Nokia Windows phones the same week. Samsung and HTC quit offering flagship Windows phones shortly after. I'm a Verizon customer, and its why I've never owned a Windows phone.
    I am not talking about Verizon selling a Windows Phone, just that anyone could buy a phone that would work on Verizon's network. It's got to be an issue for Verizon that if HP is selling W10m into the enterprise - and HP has certainly made a sizable investment to do so - those HP enterprise customers are going to depart the Verizon network with the most likely destination being moving to ATT.

    Why not just let HP build both CDMA and GSM radios into the Elite X3 and be done with it? Verizon wouldn't be responsible for sales - HP itself would sell the bulk of these units to enterprise CTOs. Verizon wouldn't even have to have a primary support role - that would be the IT department's to deal with. And if end users bought or brought Verizon-capable devices to the network, they would be doing so at their own risk.

    Seems like it's easier for Verizon to cooperate than to put up roadblocks.
    05-28-2017 10:20 AM
  11. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Seems like it's easier for Verizon to cooperate than to put up roadblocks.

    05-28-2017 01:08 PM
  12. T Moore's Avatar
    How quickly we forget.
    Verizon wanted to get rid of it's responsibility to even update the phones it had sold. It took almost a year for them to get out the 8.1 Denim update to their Windows phones. Even at that Microsoft had to step in and help them get it out. It was never discussed if Verizon asked or Microsoft stepped in to get it done.
    When the 950's came out it was the same show. Which was it, Verizon didn't want to be bothered so MS didn't put forth the effort or the other way around?

    Not going to happen.
    libra89 likes this.
    05-28-2017 10:53 PM
  13. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Why are carriers in the US still using CDMA though?
    RumoredNow likes this.
    05-29-2017 12:30 AM
  14. Zachary Boddy's Avatar
    Why are carriers in the US still using CDMA though?
    It's only two- Verizon and Sprint. Then there's a smattering of smaller carriers that piggy back on the four big guys, and some of them use Verizon and/or Sprint's rubbish CDMA network. Verizon has "promised" to switch to GSM in the next couple of years, but nothing as changed now. As it stands, Verizon doesn't want to invest in GSM and in changing their network over when most consumers don't even know that there are separate standards.
    ttsoldier and xandros9 like this.
    05-29-2017 08:24 AM
  15. dkediger's Avatar
    How quickly we forget.
    Verizon wanted to get rid of it's responsibility to even update the phones it had sold. It took almost a year for them to get out the 8.1 Denim update to their Windows phones. Even at that Microsoft had to step in and help them get it out. It was never discussed if Verizon asked or Microsoft stepped in to get it done.
    When the 950's came out it was the same show. Which was it, Verizon didn't want to be bothered so MS didn't put forth the effort or the other way around?

    Not going to happen.
    The Icon was the first US carrier phone to get Denim.
    05-29-2017 11:20 AM
  16. T Moore's Avatar
    Sorry. It was the Cyan update that took WP to 8.1. Verizon never got it out and took some phones straight to Denim, skipping Cyan.
    xandros9 likes this.
    05-29-2017 12:08 PM
  17. nate0's Avatar
    The answer is simple... Nutella!
    Don't under estimate the power of the world's greatest spread...
    xandros9 likes this.
    05-30-2017 12:31 AM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    So far as I can see, the biggest selling phones these days are budget and midrange. There simply are no well known brands making budget or midrange windows phones (which if they existed, probably would sell). Its chicken and egg mindshare stuff - no providers, no phones, no customers equals no providers, no phones, no customers.

    Retaillers don't even advertise how much ram, or sometimes even how much storage a phone has. Consumers just sort of 'poke at it with a stick' and 'heft it on one hand' and if they are feeling particularly suspicious that day 'oh, I know that brand, I've heard of them before' and maybe sometimes ;'that'll go with my handbag' that's their level of research when purchasing. The most listed spec is camera MP's. And that poorly reflects actual photo quality, but consumers care about that.

    I brought a cheaper phone for my mum the other day, and the one I brought, the hauwei y3 II, had pretty much the same spec as a number of other phones up to more than twice the price (ram, storage, cpu, camera). I bet more people were buying the budget Samsung just because "its Samsung and it costs more so it must be better" (and it isn't)

    Given this vague consumer standard, all that selling a tonne of windows mobiles would take is promotion by the carriers, some mores models, and a good looking phone with high MP on the camera sold by a known brand, like Lenovo, Oppo, Huawei, Samsung.

    But the carriers don't promote them, because its easier to just sell androids. And thus the manufacturers don't make as many. And thus the customers don't buy as many.

    Even as a niche product, its still used by business which is a high spending if small consumer base. The two largest carriers in my country both have a 950 on plan (one is consumer plan, the other is a business plan). It's only the smaller, budget oriented carriers that don't have a windows phone on plan.

    As a pure business decision, its still worth having products that sell less, if they still sell - so long as you buy them in the right quantity. Most profit is upselling anyway (accessories, plans, data), so it doesn't really matter what phone they buy so long as they buy more of your stuff, and you get a few extra customers.
    05-30-2017 03:33 AM
  19. L0n3N1nja's Avatar
    You liked the UI and you never owned a Windows Phone? I've been a Verizon customer for 17 years and I've owned three WPs.

    There have been many threads over the years related to Verizon employees and WPs.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    I bought a Note 2 a few weeks before Windows 8 mobile launched and before I saw the UI. I'm a huge fan of the stylus, there is no mobile device that can compete with the Note because of it. Than I moved to a Note 3 and Gear smartwatch, was considering the Icon as a second phone and before I had the spare cash to get one Verizon quit selling them. I used a launcher on Android to make my phone look and behave more like a Windows device.
    05-30-2017 04:26 AM
  20. nate0's Avatar
    I bought a Note 2 a few weeks before Windows 8 mobile launched and before I saw the UI. I'm a huge fan of the stylus, there is no mobile device that can compete with the Note because of it. Than I moved to a Note 3 and Gear smartwatch, was considering the Icon as a second phone and before I had the spare cash to get one Verizon quit selling them. I used a launcher on Android to make my phone look and behave more like a Windows device.
    Once inking and pen support comes to Windows 10 Mobile there will be nothing that can compete with that. The Note series will be in competition going forward once that happens.
    05-30-2017 09:26 AM
  21. savagelizards's Avatar
    Inking and pen support is useless to me without CDMA support... If it doesn't run on Verizon its not available to me. Ask anyone with an Icon why they still have one and it is because we want windows but aren't able to upgrade because there are ZERO windows phones that run on a CDMA network. I get that its a big world out there but in the US over 40% of all subscribers are on Verizon. It's the biggest single carrier and has coverage in areas that other carriers don't. I had been buying used Icons on Amazon, but that supply has dried up. If my current phone gives up the ghost I will sadly have to move to an iPhone, and Microsoft is doing nothing to change that.
    05-31-2017 05:38 AM
  22. RumoredNow's Avatar
    in the US over 40% of all subscribers are on Verizon.
    Actually less than 40. 35% for Q1 of 2017 when looking at the largest 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...vice_providers

    Me thinks they are holding about steady while the others see some small growth.


    ...If my current phone gives up the ghost I will sadly have to move to an iPhone...
    All that Vzw will offer now is iPhone?


    Verizon has been promising to shut down CDMA for some time. Eventually this dichotomy will resolve itself. 2021 maybe? 5G will be here before then and it might actually kick them in the butt and make them move to phase out CDMA quicker.
    nate0 and xandros9 like this.
    05-31-2017 04:31 PM
  23. dkediger's Avatar
    Meanwhile, AndroidCentral has a lead article on the unlocked HTC 11 supporting Verizon without having CDMA radios....
    05-31-2017 07:27 PM
  24. tgp's Avatar
    Meanwhile, AndroidCentral has a lead article on the unlocked HTC 11 supporting Verizon without having CDMA radios....
    Many factory unlocked Android phones support CDMA. In the last several years I've used a Nexus 6, a Nexus 6P, an unlocked Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge, and as of yesterday, an unlocked Samsung Galaxy S8+. All I do is insert my Verizon SIM card, nothing else. It "just works". One of my colleagues on Verizon uses a Moto X Pure 2015. There are also a number of others factory unlocked devices that work on Verizon, including iPhones.

    Dan Rubino commented on a Reddit thread awhile ago about Microsoft and CDMA. The subject was Why Are There No New CDMA Windows 10 Mobile Devices?. Here is the relevant part of his comment:

    As to the OP word on the street is Windows 10 Mobile has issues with CDMA specifically getting certified on Verizon. While 8.1 to 10 upgrades are one thing, native CDMA in a new handset is another (think the double-tap to wake issue).

    I've heard that Microsoft basically over-fired engineers and they now lack proper a proper CDMA team/are behind on its development FWIW.
    Now, I'll just throw some thoughts in here for free about my opinions on CDMA/Verizon:

    One thing I do not like about being on Verizon is that I cannot choose just any factory unlocked device like an AT&T or T-Mobile user can. Most devices though do have a Verizon version even if there is not a factory unlocked version, or if the factory unlocked version does not support CDMA. However, there is a very good list of factory unlocked phones that support CDMA, and the list is growing. I have a much larger selection of factory unlocked phones available than I would have if I was a Windows phone user.

    There are advantages to CDMA and Verizon that cause me to stick with them. CDMA is what gives Verizon its superior coverage. Where my relatives live in the Midwest, GSM carriers are AWOL. US Cellular and Verizon have great coverage, and even Sprint has some. There is no AT&T or T-Mobile service, at all.

    Also, Verizon cannot SIM lock their phones, and they are very limited in what they can do to mess with customers with the old unlimited data plans. For example, even if the plan does not have tethering enabled, it is perfectly legal to use a tethering app and do it anyway.

    Although I use Windows phone, my primary device is not one. If it was, I would probably switch carriers. But because of lack of GSM coverage where I travel most, it would be a huge sacrifice.
    Last edited by tgp; 05-31-2017 at 11:21 PM.
    05-31-2017 11:05 PM
  25. Drael646464's Avatar
    I had to look up what cdma even was. I'd never heard of it. Turns out Verizon is dumping cdma in 2019 anyway. Internationally its not very popular.

    That's probably why Microsoft never made any cdma phones, because it was never very popular internationally, and everyone is dumping it anyway.

    Looks like Verizon has a lot of work to do updating its network.
    nate0 likes this.
    06-01-2017 05:29 AM
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