07-30-2017 01:04 PM
77 1234
tools
  1. Drael646464's Avatar
    Certainly its worth a pause for amazement, the sheer work, over decades that goes into making something thoroughly familiar, like our road networks, or the internet, or cellular networks into place.

    The volume of materials, from mine, to factory, and the sheer manhours is incredible. And a lot of technology is so artfully crafted, that for the most part no one person understands it all, from the micro-processor, the network packets up to the software level, let alone all the component processes that make it possible, and how to practically do them.

    Similar amazing is the amount of hours, in an average persons life, is spent earning to acquire such goods, like, a car, or a good computer, and the sheer total volume of collective debt, across the planet endured, to reach for this nebulus consumer nirvana.
    06-30-2017 03:33 AM
  2. Drael646464's Avatar
    06-30-2017 03:36 AM
  3. faisalbaba's Avatar
    Competition between companies is increasing faster.vivo show figure print scanner in display.Apple may bring it to next iPhone.
    What is next innovation in phone,will it foldable screen or something else

    Sent from (iOK)
    06-30-2017 04:53 AM
  4. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Technology isn't the be all and end all for making us happier though is it?

    In that same time period we've seen crime rise, suicide rise, and communities drift further apart with people getting colder to each other. We've seen noble experiments in cultural blending turn into high tensions. We've seen marriage and long term relationships turn into a statistical dumpster fire.

    We could have levitating cars, mega-AI, and teleportation and that wouldn't make the world nessasarily a better place, just one filled with easy conveniences.

    In many ways the focus on consumer goods, is as much a symptom of a need for distraction from a grindy workplace, and a disconnected community, with a constant background hum of "it's probably all going to go to poop eventually". That urge for a technological utopia, while we march into brave new world, bladerunner, animal farm, the matrix and 1984.

    Of course all this will sound like I am trying to Debbie downer your optimism. I'm not really, I;m just suggesting that consumer driven technology, currently tends to create technologies that we have to adapt to, and often do so poorly. For example, high internet use has now been positively correlated with suicide risk in a few major studies. Under 25's when given the choice of 30 minutes with no cell phone, with nothing to do, and an electric shock - basically all chose the electric shock.

    We COULD design technology that enhances and adapts to our natural human condition. And in doing so, we COULD create a utopia - where nano-manfacturing and machines do our labour, where communication is made personal, intimate and real. But generally speaking it seems humans have so little time, to contemplate, that their understanding of themselves is so deeply lacking, that they don't actually understand what the human condition IS, well enough to engineer a society, or technology for the benefit of that condition.

    Or perhaps they are just too worn and tired to care. Or conditioned to think in other ways. Whatever the case, there are good reasons why revivalism, and nostalgia is at an all time high, and things that are passing, and part of our history, that were quite worthy of a moments appreciation.

    Like an ability to tolerate, and enjoy silence. Independence from things. Dinner with the family. Asking for butter from your neighbour, and getting help, rather than everyone drawing their curtains.
    I agree with much of what you're saying.

    I'm not into nostalgia though as we have a tendency to see things through rose tinted glasses. 'When I was young.... (fill in the blank)". I also find both nostalgia and revivalism dangerous thinking personally. Longing for the past does not solve the future nor do we seem to learn from it.

    I have loved technology since I was fairly young (we're talking 70/80s here) and I was lucky to have computers in my school at a fairly early age. I have no idea why that was as I grew up in a working class neighbourhood and went to a public school but I am thankful. I'm all for a technical society but one where we have a conscious.

    I do agree that younger people are caught up in consumer tech too much. However, there are shifts happening and I do believe that more and more younger people are starting to appreciate life more outside of tech. Not everyone is tied to their mobile devices and lots of people realise that being connected is good but shouldn't override your life.

    There is also a cultural aspect to this as well. In places with high levels of consumerism, like the UK or USA for example, where having stuff is important you're more likely to find this kind of mentality where people won't let go. Of course even in these countries there are changes in life style. It's easy to get caught up in doom and gloom thinking but I believe that society goes though stages and it takes a while to settle.

    Many aspects of what you describe near the end there I think has more to do with the perceived pressures of society rather than the reality. Family life is what the parents want to make it, a lot of that depends on taking time out for family life. We often hear of 'time poor' families but I do wonder how much of that is their own making?

    As for neighbours and community. That's a major political problem brought about by creating environments where no one feels stable. In places like here in the UK. Property investment is big business. Lots of people rent rather than own. Home ownership is at all time low. Jobs are lower paid, houses too expensive. The list goes on. Community takes more than home ownership but if you have a constant shifting of people how does one build community? That is the question.

    We can try to solve the worlds problems but I don't think technology is that big of a problem. It's an issue but there are other political/societal aspects which create the basis for these issues rather than tech itself. We are very much a divided society in the west and in other places. It's mix of old fashioned thinking, greed, nostalgia and aggressive conservatism vs new ideas, liberalism, cohesiveness and younger thinking. There will always be clashes.

    Lastly, I don't think there is such a thing as utopia. Humans are just not set up for it. It never existed and never will. We can only hope for better than now.
    libra89 likes this.
    06-30-2017 05:16 AM
  5. Keeptechcoolandsimple's Avatar
    i don't think 'the smartphone" has peaked. i still think it's evolving.for example - this year alone, we've seen the releases of a couple of devices that shifted the paradigm on the smartphone aspect ratio in an effort towards a (though still not perfected) completely bezel-less design. the evolution may seem slow because its coming slower steps while we wait for the technology to catch up to what is conceptualized.
    libra89, N_LaRUE and TgeekB like this.
    06-30-2017 08:20 AM
  6. tgp's Avatar
    i don't think 'the smartphone" has peaked. i still think it's evolving.for example - this year alone, we've seen the releases of a couple of devices that shifted the paradigm on the smartphone aspect ratio in an effort towards a (though still not perfected) completely bezel-less design.
    I basically agree with your viewpoint here. I'm not convinced we're due for another paradigm change at this point. Although, I will NOT say that one will never come!

    The cars we drive today are the same basic form as Henry Ford's original Model T. Actually, they're the same basic form as the first four wheeled carts man hitched to large animals. Today's cars are sleeker, faster, more reliable, more efficient, and more comfortable, but the basic form is the same.

    Another thing that comes into play is that logistics dictate an acceptable form factor. Our eyes are not sharper, nor are our fingers more precise, than they were 20 years ago. We still need a certain screen size to be able to see, and a device large enough to handle. Similar to the vehicle analogy above, we still interact with the PC similar to the way we did when the current form factor became popular 30+ years ago, although its capabilities and speed have grown exponentially.

    the evolution may seem slow because its coming slower steps while we wait for the technology to catch up to what is conceptualized.
    I've read that lack of significant advancement in battery technology is holding this back.
    libra89, N_LaRUE and TgeekB like this.
    06-30-2017 09:17 AM
  7. Nate W's Avatar
    Who would have thought MS would be a threat to the IPad 6 yrs ago?

    I've said this a million times. MS doesn't need an IPhone or Andriod "killer", just a reasonable market share.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    Which they already have.
    N_LaRUE and Drael646464 like this.
    06-30-2017 09:27 AM
  8. faisalbaba's Avatar
    Which they already have.
    Pc or mobile

    Sent from (iOK)
    06-30-2017 09:37 AM
  9. mtf1380's Avatar
    I like the idea of a pen & dock/slab concept.

    Pen (no larger than a Mont Blanc):

    Could house the: great camera, speaker, microphone, detachable magnetic ear piece, 3 or 4 line curved screen, Bluetooth, WiFi, flashlight, projector. The dial pad would appear linearly, on the top line of the curve screen, the number dialed would appear linearly, on the 2nd/3rd line, below.

    Dock/Slab Base (not bigger than an X3, but compatible with all Surface Tablets and Phones):


    Should do most of the heavy lifting: storage; bigger screen; large dial pad; apps/games; writing platform for the pen (note taking), battery charger for pen, when docked.

    Function:

    Most menial tasks would be preformed on the pen, that would be connected to the Slab by means of Bluetooth when out and about, wifi when home or office;
    Phone calls could be made by voice commands, or using the curved touch screen on pen (or from the touch screen on the slab), either the pen's speaker, or the magnetically attached ear bud, would be used for listening; emails, SMS, could be viewed by scrolling on the curved screen, and sent, using voice commands (or, via Slab). Camera would be point and shoot/record from pen, or, when composition is required, you would use in conjunction with the slab (this would allow a user to hold the pen high in the air, and compose through the slab working as a viewfinder, down low).

    pen would be strongly magnetized, to the slab when not in use, or charging; and should have a minimum of 30ft (10M) distance when on Bluetooth. Wifi for whole house/office; WWAN for long distance file retrieval, and allowing the file to be viewed via projection.

    This setup would give a great deal of functional flexibility. IMHO:)

    Just a thought...
    Last edited by mtf1380; 06-30-2017 at 10:31 AM.
    06-30-2017 10:05 AM
  10. Nate W's Avatar
    Pc or mobile

    Sent from (iOK)
    Surface.
    I'm not Microsoft nor an economist. But they would not keep putting out Surface products if the market was not willing to consume them. Microsoft knows what type of environment needs to be present for such a device to survive and thrive. It's there, yet the average consumer I feel may not accept it or be ready. Even many of us on this site are skeptical at times depending...
    libra89 and faisalbaba like this.
    06-30-2017 10:11 AM
  11. Nate W's Avatar
    @mtf1380

    What I've been looking at lately personally is something that I can feel safe in the event of it falling out of my hand at 4ft and hitting the floor. Safe from liquids/dust. Safe from extreme climates. The Elite x3 has almost all that with out a case protector. If Microsoft can perfect those things and add what you said above and some they could sell that to almost anyone. It has to be portable enough to put in a coat pocket or pocket book/purse. So maybe detachable is the thinking here. I believe it will be a predecessor from the surface book of some kind.

    Edit: SurfaceBook successor I meant lol...although the concept has been around long enough for it to be a predecessor haha
    06-30-2017 10:17 AM
  12. Nate W's Avatar
    i don't think 'the smartphone" has peaked. i still think it's evolving.for example - this year alone, we've seen the releases of a couple of devices that shifted the paradigm on the smartphone aspect ratio in an effort towards a (though still not perfected) completely bezel-less design. the evolution may seem slow because its coming slower steps while we wait for the technology to catch up to what is conceptualized.
    I agree. The smartphone category is becoming an art and a competitive one at that. And what do collectors do..? They look for that unique piece the one that stands out or displays something unique and expressive. It catches the eye and senses. We're are easily pleased in the basic senses.

    IF Microsoft or an OEM put out a bezeless W10M phone, do you think anyone would buy it? Or even try it?

    I think it's been there done that. Alcatel is such a mediocre company that hardly anyone knew or knows the idol4s existed that was not already a w10m user. Yet there dbl glass sided phone fell out of the t-mobile store 3 months out if the gate...not bezeless but the only consumer focused phone to come this last 12 months. They'll keep pressing on and hopefully the Europe release and preorders go well...

    Samsung, LG, or Huawei if they put out a W10M handset people will pay attention. Only way I see Microsoft's OS being viable/noticed in the SMARTPHONE Market. Microsoft could not even turnaround the smartphone heads in their direction IMO. That's why they are waiting and hopefully perfecting something that should be a new type of experience. It seems to point back to a surface device/branded experience of some sort.
    Charis Ntouroutlis likes this.
    06-30-2017 10:45 AM
  13. Keeptechcoolandsimple's Avatar
    I agree. The smartphone category is becoming an art and a competitive one at that. And what do collectors do..? They look for that unique piece the one that stands out or displays something unique and expressive. It catches the eye and senses. We're are easily pleased in the basic senses.

    IF Microsoft or an OEM put out a bezeless W10M phone, do you think anyone would buy it? Or even try it?

    I think it's been there done that. Alcatel is such a mediocre company that hardly anyone knew or knows the idol4s existed that was not already a w10m user. Yet there dbl glass sided phone fell out of the t-mobile store 3 months out if the gate...not bezeless but the only consumer focused phone to come this last 12 months. They'll keep pressing on and hopefully the Europe release and preorders go well...

    Samsung, LG, or Huawei if they put out a W10M handset people will pay attention. Only way I see Microsoft's OS being viable/noticed in the SMARTPHONE Market. Microsoft could not even turnaround the smartphone heads in their direction IMO. That's why they are waiting and hopefully perfecting something that should be a new type of experience. It seems to point back to a surface device/branded experience of some sort.
    i actually think microsoft should be the ones taking the lead on the next mobile device (both software and hardware) before any other oems follow.

    BUT - andthis is the big caveat - it would only work if they can bring forth another category changer the way they did with the surface pro line. something that nobody has seen before. this is the reason I'm looking forward to and am hopeful ( maybe foolishly) about the rumored surface phone. similar to how other oems piggy backed off of the surface pro hardware concept, if the surface pro phone does manage to create something that shows us a new idea of what smartphone can be, other oems will follow that template and come up with other windows phones and follow suit. if that happens, similar to how the surface pro line reenergized the perception of microsoft, they can create excitement within the consumers mindset.

    i think that's actually a big reason windows mobile didn't catch on that doesn't get mentioned. all they did was create a new UI (which was awesome) but stuck it in a predictable rectangular slab (aka somewhat boring)hardware. and in that situation, the app situation becomes more noticably dire. my opinion is hardware is what first attracts consumers, and app situation is what may influence someone's desire to keep it or ditch it.

    i don't think hardware gets talked about as much as it should. look how much excitement samsung is getting from consumers and all they did was bring to the market curved edge screens and a different display aspect ratios with less bezel(all hardware)- because honestly Samsung's version of android isn't even the best skin of android available. and further back, how apple created excitement for the iphone with an all touch display (hardware) in an era of phones with keyboards- at that point, from a software perspective apple was still very lacking and blackberry had the more stable os.

    if Microsoft takes the lead in creating a new design of the smartphone from a hardware perspective (again, like they did with the surface pro line for the mobile computing market), then more of the average consumers will pay attention. never underestimate the importance of design. and once developers realize there is excitement for the new windows phone experience, they might be more inclined to consider developing for windows mobile.
    Nate W and Drael646464 like this.
    06-30-2017 05:42 PM
  14. Nate W's Avatar
    @Keeptechcoolandsimple
    Good points. I agree in your opinion. It's purely up to Microsoft to choose to do it and when. When they do it will take like you said a defining piece of tech that has capabilities unlike anything used this far. It leans that way. Where they'll need of that device its own category defining Hardware and strict advertising.
    Guytronic likes this.
    07-01-2017 12:04 AM
  15. Keeptechcoolandsimple's Avatar
    @Keeptechcoolandsimple
    Good points. I agree in your opinion. It's purely up to Microsoft to choose to do it and when. When they do it will take like you said a defining piece of tech that has capabilities unlike anything used this far. It leans that way. Where they'll need of that device its own category defining Hardware and strict advertising.
    remember those "I'm an apple, he's a pc" apple ads that painted windows as an old fashioned relic of a time gone by? i honestly think surface pro line completely flipped that script.

    hopefully, the so called surface phone can flip the script the same way.. microsoft could then run ads that show how far apple has fallen back in terms of innovation.
    Nate W likes this.
    07-01-2017 11:51 AM
  16. faisalbaba's Avatar
    I am also waiting that day.
    When you guys think Microsoft should release surface phone.i want before 2018

    Sent from (iOK)
    Guytronic likes this.
    07-01-2017 01:50 PM
  17. techiez's Avatar
    I am also waiting that day.
    When you guys think Microsoft should release surface phone.i want before 2018

    Sent from (iOK)
    If Surface phone is supposed to be of entirely unseen form factor then it id atleast 3-4 yrs away. Just look at holo lens, consumer version is expected in 2020, thats how surface phone is also gng to be
    07-02-2017 01:29 AM
  18. faisalbaba's Avatar
    Holo lens is new thing in technology it will take time.i didn't even experience What VR is.but I didn't think surface phone is 3 to 4 yrs away

    Sent from (iOK)
    mtf1380 likes this.
    07-02-2017 03:53 AM
  19. Drael646464's Avatar
    As someone here pointed out to me today, with windows on arm, PC's always connected telephony abilities will be somewhat standard pretty soon. Being "a phone" will simply be a part of a good portion of mobile windows devices.

    At which point calling something a "phone" is even more moot than it is currently.

    Given the new surface device will be likely a folding form factor, it will essentially be, as much a convertible tablet as it is a phone.

    Basically what I am saying is, I don't think it's going to be called a phone. Ultratablet? Flipbook? IDK, but not a phone. By the time of its release, telephony abilities will be basically standard in anything running windows 10 and small.

    It's conceptually I think more of a 'tablet that folds up small into a phone like shape', than a 'phone that folds out into a tablet'. Or maybe its both XD

    As for time of release, there are several indicators to suggest they are already working on both the SKU of this win10m sibling OS, and the hardware. Insider leaks, bits within current code. I'm not sure how long such a product takes but I don't think it'll be 4 years.

    I'd guess more like 1-2. Then again its complex engineering, and theres the software too - which I am guessing will run win10m style in 'phone mode' and windows on arm, emulation when 'in tablet mode'. Although because it also seems to have a magnetic connector, and is detachable, it quite probably also has some kind of 'dual phone' mode, where you can use it to second screen, or have separate data/apps on each screen.

    The are going to need some hardcore UI tweaks.

    I'm actually thinking the software could take longer to bake than the hardware XD

    It's both a doable and exciting concept though. With the sci-fi flash of fluent design, and the folding qualities similar to a westworld tablet, it's not only a useful, but potentially a very beautiful futuristic design. The kind of splash one really wants to make.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 07-03-2017 at 11:17 AM.
    07-03-2017 11:05 AM
  20. faisalbaba's Avatar
    We are saying Microsoft will not call surface phone as phone.

    Sent from (iOK)
    07-03-2017 12:30 PM
  21. techiez's Avatar
    Holo lens is new thing in technology it will take time.i didn't even experience What VR is.but I didn't think surface phone is 3 to 4 yrs away

    Sent from (iOK)
    The reason I say SP is 3-4 yrs away is due to the expectations and talks all around that it will be a foldable form factor, and a durable and usable foldable form factor is definitely years away(as a consumer mass product). Anything less than that cannot be called the next big thing and MS has already hinted that SP will not be the next candybar phone.
    07-04-2017 11:31 PM
  22. faisalbaba's Avatar
    The reason I say SP is 3-4 yrs away is due to the expectations and talks all around that it will be a foldable form factor, and a durable and usable foldable form factor is definitely years away(as a consumer mass product). Anything less than that cannot be called the next big thing and MS has already hinted that SP will not be the next candybar phone.
    I think First generation of surface phone will be without foldable screen

    Sent from (iOK)
    Guytronic likes this.
    07-05-2017 01:02 AM
  23. Drael646464's Avatar
    The reason I say SP is 3-4 yrs away is due to the expectations and talks all around that it will be a foldable form factor, and a durable and usable foldable form factor is definitely years away(as a consumer mass product). Anything less than that cannot be called the next big thing and MS has already hinted that SP will not be the next candybar phone.
    A laptop is foldable, and durable, and usable. There's one of those already with dual screens.

    What design challenges do you forsee?
    07-05-2017 03:03 AM
  24. tgp's Avatar
    A laptop is foldable, and durable, and usable. There's one of those already with dual screens.

    What design challenges do you forsee?
    Are you looking for a shrunken laptop?
    libra89 likes this.
    07-05-2017 08:09 AM
  25. Drael646464's Avatar
    Are you looking for a shrunken laptop?
    Coloured me puzzled by that response.

    No, they already exist?

    I was talking about a folding tablet. But the tech for that basically already exists, in the form of dual screen based laptops.

    If anything its the software of such a device where most of the innovation would happen IMO

    Unless one is talking flexible screens, or a creaseless design. In which case the tech already exists for that too, but its too expensive for everyday consumers.

    But there's no reason why the first folding tablets couldn't have creases. The westworld show ones do. And people still wow about them. The UI is just divided well across the screens, incorporating the creases.
    07-05-2017 08:43 AM
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