09-02-2017 02:45 PM
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tools
  1. Drael646464's Avatar
    The only main fall would be games but that's understandable as PC games are quite extreme and even laptops have difficulty there.
    They could probably scale games. There are algorythmns for scaling poly counts down lower. Design systems to drop effects and post-processing, throw in some different UI input methods. But that would require there was money in it. Maybe if people could keep playing their desktop game, at the bus stop, it might make it economically workwhile-ish - but a lot of people would need to do it. ATM gamers just either play casual, or buy top end, but it could merge somehow maybe?
    07-06-2017 09:45 AM
  2. Drael646464's Avatar
    Definition - foreseeable future



    Edit: What we're more than likely going to have for a long time is Windows on desktop, and iOS and Android on mobile.
    Really? Whats a long time then? Are we talking ten years? twenty? fifty?
    07-06-2017 09:47 AM
  3. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    And as with the truck/car analogy, there certainly are hardware differences to consider between desktop and mobile, as you pointed out here.
    I'm curious what these hardware differences are?

    Basics -

    PC - CPU, RAM, ROM, Storage, Input peripherals, Output peripherals

    Mobile - CPU, RAM, ROM, Storage, Input peripherals, Output peripherals

    The overall architecture within runs the same internally.

    So I'm curious about the differences.
    07-06-2017 09:53 AM
  4. tgp's Avatar
    Really? Whats a long time then? Are we talking ten years? twenty? fifty?
    I have no idea. Ever since WP's inception, we've been thinking "next year", "next update", "next version". In other words, "just around the corner". In reality, it's been more like the bear that went over the mountain to see what he could see.

    I'm curious what these hardware differences are?

    Basics -

    PC - CPU, RAM, ROM, Storage, Input peripherals, Output peripherals

    Mobile - CPU, RAM, ROM, Storage, Input peripherals, Output peripherals

    The overall architecture within runs the same internally.

    So I'm curious about the differences.
    I wasn't talking so much about the hardware component differences as I was about battery and heat dissipation, as you mentioned here:

    The biggest determent of a smartphone is the battery and heat constraints. This is why powerful processors are difficult at small form factors.
    Personally I don't see smartphones going away any time soon. They may get more advanced and may have additional hardware but I don't think they're going anywhere.

    There's always a call for the 'next big thing'. The next advancement. The new idea. The great cosmic shift. It will happen when it happens but there is always a 'dull' area for some time before it does. A breather if you will. It happened with PC and now it's happening with mobile.

    I don't quite understand the call for killing of the smartphone to be honest. It's the most personal computing device we ever had and for some reason some people want it gone. I don't quite get this to be honest. The smartphone in it's current form is only 10 years old. Yes there were smartphones prior to that by Nokia but on the whole touchscreen phones are only 10 years old.

    A PC has been around for more than 40 years. It may have got smaller, faster, better but at the end of the day, it hasn't changed all that much.
    I agree 100% here. I mentioned in another post a few days ago that logistics dictate why our tools retain certain form factors. Vehicles today are the same basic form as animal-drawn wagons from thousands of years ago; a rectangular-shaped apparatus with four wheels, one at each corner, with seats inside.
    N_LaRUE and libra89 like this.
    07-06-2017 10:04 AM
  5. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I wasn't talking so much about the hardware component differences as I was about battery and heat dissipation, as you mentioned
    Oh ok. I thought you were referring to some hardware restraint I didn't see. In reality it's not much different than a laptop when you think about it.

    I agree 100% here. I mentioned in another post a few days ago that logistics dictate why our tools retain certain form factors. Vehicles today are the same basic form as animal-drawn wagons from thousands of years ago; a rectangular-shaped apparatus with four wheels, one at each corner, with seats inside.
    It is rather amusing that people think once something become boring and everyday we must change it. You can use many analogies where this idea is false. TVs, movie theatres, theatres, cars, trucks, PCs, knifes, sinks, taps, showers, doors, windows... the list goes on.

    Sure they get 'better' but overall, in functionality they don't change.
    tgp and libra89 like this.
    07-06-2017 10:13 AM
  6. Drael646464's Avatar
    I have no idea. Ever since WP's inception, we've been thinking "next year", "next update", "next version". In other words, "just around the corner". In reality, it's been more like the bear that went over the mountain to see what he could see.



    I wasn't talking so much about the hardware component differences as I was about battery and heat dissipation, as you mentioned here:





    I agree 100% here. I mentioned in another post a few days ago that logistics dictate why our tools retain certain form factors. Vehicles today are the same basic form as animal-drawn wagons from thousands of years ago; a rectangular-shaped apparatus with four wheels, one at each corner, with seats inside.
    Well isn't that life. A bear who climbed the mountain to see what he could see. :)

    Now there is a reality that isn't going anywhere.
    07-06-2017 10:17 AM
  7. Drael646464's Avatar
    Oh ok. I thought you were referring to some hardware restraint I didn't see. In reality it's not much different than a laptop when you think about it.



    It is rather amusing that people think once something become boring and everyday we must change it. You can use many analogies where this idea is false. TVs, movie theatres, theatres, cars, trucks, PCs, knifes, sinks, taps, showers, doors, windows... the list goes on.

    Sure they get 'better' but overall, in functionality they don't change.
    My tech drawing teacher talked about how the clay pot became the tea pot. I guess a tablet is just, well like a piece of paper. Maybe one day we'll have virtual pieces of paper, or electronic bits of paper. Or cars that levitate, and self-drive, but still have four seats.
    07-06-2017 10:19 AM
  8. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    Microsoft did not shutter mobile.
    They stopped marketing WP, their Lead goes on sabbatical, the CEO never liked mobile and was always mum on the subject, they provided better offerings to other OS's with more enthusiasm than their own, they stopped mentioning mobile at conventions like //build and MWC, never grew the critical partnerships (telecom providers) for their third-party hardware allies, super late on updates, on and on and on. They pretty much did shutter mobile, just slowly.

    I agree that MS should have never gotten into the hardware business, but they didn't need to to have a successful product OS/Ecosystem, just passion and commitment. They had plenty of thirsty hardware partners. And to think MS had 30% mobile share in 2007.
    CraigCole and dgr_874 like this.
    07-06-2017 01:09 PM
  9. fatclue_98's Avatar
    They stopped marketing WP, their Lead goes on sabbatical, the CEO never liked mobile and was always mum on the subject, they provided better offerings to other OS's with more enthusiasm than their own, they stopped mentioning mobile at conventions like //build and MWC, never grew the critical partnerships (telecom providers) for their third-party hardware allies, super late on updates, on and on and on. They pretty much did shutter mobile, just slowly.

    I agree that MS should have never gotten into the hardware business, but they didn't need to to have a successful product OS/Ecosystem, just passion and commitment. They had plenty of thirsty hardware partners. And to think MS had 30% mobile share in 2007.
    None of what you mentioned addresses the fact that MS is delivering update after update and producing new Insider builds. Nadella can go golfing with Trump everyday or vacationing in France for all I care but it doesn't change what's happening.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    07-06-2017 08:01 PM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    They stopped marketing WP, their Lead goes on sabbatical, the CEO never liked mobile and was always mum on the subject, they provided better offerings to other OS's with more enthusiasm than their own, they stopped mentioning mobile at conventions like //build and MWC, never grew the critical partnerships (telecom providers) for their third-party hardware allies, super late on updates, on and on and on. They pretty much did shutter mobile, just slowly.

    I agree that MS should have never gotten into the hardware business, but they didn't need to to have a successful product OS/Ecosystem, just passion and commitment. They had plenty of thirsty hardware partners. And to think MS had 30% mobile share in 2007.
    win10m was mentioned at build. It was mentioned when the demo'd files on demand on a 950. I don't think win10m ever had 30 percent marketshare.
    07-06-2017 09:34 PM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    win10m was mentioned at build. It was mentioned when the demo'd files on demand on a 950. I don't think win10m ever had 30 percent marketshare.
    I think he's referring to WinMo (CE-based) in which he's close to the truth. I had seen somewhere else many years ago where WinMo had closer to 40% share worldwide. The 30% figure might have been US share. As with Windows Phone, Europe adopted Microsoft's mobile platform much better than 'Murica.
    Guytronic and jlzimmerman like this.
    07-06-2017 10:05 PM
  12. CraigCole's Avatar
    None of what you mentioned addresses the fact that MS is delivering update after update and producing new Insider builds. Nadella can go golfing with Trump everyday or vacationing in France for all I care but it doesn't change what's happening.
    Yes, Microsoft is delivering updates, but in my opinion they're just spinning their tires. Sure, W10M is galaxies ahead of the horrifying state it was released a year and a half ago (or whenever it was made public), but my 950 is still an unmitigated piece of crap, constantly missing notifications and dropping WiFi connectivity; glance screen is broken, Bluetooth music playback is at best sketchy, the photos app loves to crash. I could go on but I don't feel like making myself more depressed.

    I don't think win10m ever had 30 percent marketshare.
    I think he might have been referring to the original Windows Mobile.
    jlzimmerman likes this.
    07-06-2017 10:16 PM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yes, Microsoft is delivering updates, but in my opinion they're just spinning their tires. Sure, W10M is galaxies ahead of the horrifying state it was released a year and a half ago (or whenever it was made public), but my 950 is still an unmitigated piece of crap, constantly missing notifications and dropping WiFi connectivity; glance screen is broken, Bluetooth music playback is at best sketchy, the photos app loves to crash. I could go on but I don't feel like making myself more depressed.



    I think he might have been referring to the original Windows Mobile.
    Did you ever stop to think you have a bad handset? I have none of those issues you mentioned and never have. The only problems I've ever had are the phantom touches on a 1520 and the SD eject issue on an Idol 4S. I had a Bluetooth problem with my Caddy 's radio but it was relegated to that car only. Never had any problems with my other cars.

    So far my x3 is totally glitch free.
    Guytronic likes this.
    07-06-2017 10:27 PM
  14. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think he's referring to WinMo (CE-based) in which he's close to the truth. I had seen somewhere else many years ago where WinMo had closer to 40% share worldwide. The 30% figure might have been US share. As with Windows Phone, Europe adopted Microsoft's mobile platform much better than 'Murica.
    Ah, well that's a bit like saying blackberry ruled the smartphone world. the iPhone destroyed all of that.
    07-07-2017 01:31 AM
  15. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Ah, well that's a bit like saying blackberry ruled the smartphone world. the iPhone destroyed all of that.
    Well, they did. The mid-aughts were BlackBerry and Palm's heyday like it is with Apple and Samsung today.
    jlzimmerman and Guytronic like this.
    07-07-2017 08:30 AM
  16. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Yes, Microsoft is delivering updates, but in my opinion they're just spinning their tires. Sure, W10M is galaxies ahead of the horrifying state it was released a year and a half ago (or whenever it was made public), but my 950 is still an unmitigated piece of crap, constantly missing notifications and dropping WiFi connectivity; glance screen is broken, Bluetooth music playback is at best sketchy, the photos app loves to crash. I could go on but I don't feel like making myself more depressed.
    Ok, I just have to ask:

    How come people keep bringing up their own phone's problems and apply them to the OS as a whole, when those problems are so clearly a fringe case which points the finger at a hardware issue rather than an OS issue?

    I mean, if you really have those problems don't you get that it's NOT the OS? If you have all of those issues on your 950, and I have none of them, how on earth is that the fault of the OS? We've got the same phone!!!

    Don't judge the OS based on your faulty hardware. It's that type of information that makes people distrust the OS and MS.
    07-07-2017 03:14 PM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Ok, I just have to ask:

    How come people keep bringing up their own phone's problems and apply them to the OS as a whole, when those problems are so clearly a fringe case which points the finger at a hardware issue rather than an OS issue?

    I mean, if you really have those problems don't you get that it's NOT the OS? If you have all of those issues on your 950, and I have none of them, how on earth is that the fault of the OS? We've got the same phone!!!

    Don't judge the OS based on your faulty hardware. It's that type of information that makes people distrust the OS and MS.
    Exactly. Not every Pinto exploded and not every Explorer rolled over.
    07-07-2017 03:29 PM
  18. TgeekB's Avatar
    Ok, I just have to ask:

    How come people keep bringing up their own phone's problems and apply them to the OS as a whole, when those problems are so clearly a fringe case which points the finger at a hardware issue rather than an OS issue?

    I mean, if you really have those problems don't you get that it's NOT the OS? If you have all of those issues on your 950, and I have none of them, how on earth is that the fault of the OS? We've got the same phone!!!

    Don't judge the OS based on your faulty hardware. It's that type of information that makes people distrust the OS and MS.
    I think there's two truths here.
    First, people do like to attribute their problems to everyone. If Sprint has terrible coverage at my house, it does not necessarily mean it has bad coverage everywhere. People get upset and blow things out of proportion.
    Second, people like to go to extremes. I would be willing to bet that while Windows phones are not completely horrible, they are also not completely perfect. If mine works and yours is terrible, it doesn't mean either situation is true of everyone.
    All we can do for sure is look at facts. They don't sell very well. While they may work for a small percentage of people, there is obviously an issue. The "issue" can be argued ad nauseum, which is what these forums are for.

    Exactly. Not every Pinto exploded and not every Explorer rolled over.
    Yes, but when they did people died. Doesn't make for good sales!
    Last edited by Guytronic; 07-09-2017 at 10:26 PM.
    07-07-2017 04:03 PM
  19. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Yes, but when they did people died. Doesn't make for good sales!
    So in the interest of carrying the analogy forward; how many blamed Android for exploding Samsung phones?

    People LOVE to crap on Microsoft. LOVE it. Seriously. It happens far more often than not. I swear to god; if Steve Jobs had presented a feature that functioned exactly like Continuum but on the iPhone then all iPhone users would have hailed him as god and claimed this was the next huge innovation. And I do mean the same functionality - equally "poor" as some people put it. MS does it and nobody cares, because the general perception is that MS isn't about the future or originality or innovation.
    07-07-2017 04:27 PM
  20. TgeekB's Avatar
    So in the interest of carrying the analogy forward; how many blamed Android for exploding Samsung phones?

    People LOVE to crap on Microsoft. LOVE it. Seriously. It happens far more often than not. I swear to god; if Steve Jobs had presented a feature that functioned exactly like Continuum but on the iPhone then all iPhone users would have hailed him as god and claimed this was the next huge innovation. And I do mean the same functionality - equally "poor" as some people put it. MS does it and nobody cares, because the general perception is that MS isn't about the future or originality or innovation.
    Go to Crackberry and people will say the same thing.
    Go to iMore and people will say the same thing.
    It's all in your perspective. If people can't see past their own experience they don't get it.
    libra89 and NYCMetsPDX like this.
    07-07-2017 04:33 PM
  21. mtf1380's Avatar
    So in the interest of carrying the analogy forward; how many blamed Android for exploding Samsung phones?

    People LOVE to crap on Microsoft. LOVE it.
    I would say this is as simple as "home team mentality" syndrome. Team Apple = a large percentage; Team Android = a larger percentage (with the successful efforts of the OEM, Samsung); and then we have our team: Team Windows = very, very, very small percentage. The opposing teams are always going to trash talk the other teams...human nature. If we get some W's in the win column, than we'll get more fans....unless the team happens to be the Patriots...then we'll just have to let history do the cheering:)

    Go Pats!!!!
    fatclue_98 and libra89 like this.
    07-07-2017 04:50 PM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yes, but when they did people died. Doesn't make for good sales!
    It was only for the purpose of analogy. It's tragic that people died but those were automobile accidents and who's to say that people who were rear-ended in their Pintos wouldn't have died anyway - from their injuries for example. Explorers weren't the only SUVs that rolled over but the laws of probabilities state that if a vehicle with the sales figures of an Explorer would be more than likely to roll over than say a GMC Jimmy which was outsold by a crazy margin. Now, if we're talking about a Suzuki Samurai, that's different.

    People love to exaggerate when there's some form of controversy. The Concorde had ONE accident throughout its entire time in service and was immediately grounded and never flew again. The bats**t crazy part of it was that the accident was caused by negligence from a groundcrew member working on a different aircraft. The Concorde ran over debris from a departing aircraft, blew out a tire and the resulting disintegration of the tire caused a piece of the carcass to shred the compressor section in one of the engines. How the **** is that the Concorde's fault?

    I would say this is as simple as "home team mentality" syndrome. Team Apple = a large percentage; Team Android = a larger percentage (with the successful efforts of the OEM, Samsung); and then we have our team: Team Windows = very, very, very small percentage. The opposing teams are always going to trash talk the other teams...human nature. If we get some W's in the win column, than we'll get more fans....unless the team happens to be the Patriots...then we'll just have to let history do the cheering:)

    Go Pats!!!!
    I'm a Dolphins fan - get out of here with that Patriots garbage!!!!

    As for putting up more Ws in the win column producing fans, I'll have you know I'm also a diehard Marlins fan and less than 1 week after they took that Cleveland a** in the '97 Series (Sorry Laura) Fire Sale #1 came. History repeated itself after the team was rebuilt and spanked some Yankee a** in the 2003 Series. Makes me wonder if Nadella and Jeffrey Loria are somehow related.
    Last edited by Guytronic; 07-09-2017 at 10:27 PM.
    CraigCole likes this.
    07-07-2017 07:23 PM
  23. tgp's Avatar
    The Concorde had ONE accident throughout its entire time in service and was immediately grounded and never flew again.
    I agree with your points, but a little correction is needed here. The accident happened in July 2000. The entire fleet of Concordes of both British Airways and Air France were grounded, but they did fly again for a couple years after modifications. They quit flying for good in 2003; Air France in May and British Airways in October.

    I remember right before they were permanently retired, British Airways offered a fantastic deal, something like $1,000 round trip between London Heathrow and Kennedy in New York City, one way on Concorde and the other way by subsonic jet. It was basically to give enthusiasts a chance to take an otherwise unaffordable ride. I didn't do it, but as an aviation enthusiast it spites me now I didn't. If the last day flying was tomorrow and they announced the deal today, I'd be on my way to JFK right now!

    after they took that Cleveland a** in the '97 Series (Sorry Laura)

    <snip>

    spanked some Yankee a** in the 2003 Series
    Ha, this reminds me of Dave Barry, one of the finest columnists to ever grace the pages of the daily newspaper. In one of his articles he said something about the Marlins winning the World Series again in 2003, and I quote "...which we do like clockwork every six years"!
    fatclue_98 and CraigCole like this.
    07-07-2017 08:39 PM
  24. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I agree with your points, but a little correction is needed here. The accident happened in July 2000. The entire fleet of Concordes of both British Airways and Air France were grounded, but they did fly again for a couple years after modifications. They quit flying for good in 2003; Air France in May and British Airways in October.

    I remember right before they were permanently retired, British Airways offered a fantastic deal, something like $1,000 round trip between London Heathrow and Kennedy in New York City, one way on Concorde and the other way by subsonic jet. It was basically to give enthusiasts a chance to take an otherwise unaffordable ride. I didn't do it, but as an aviation enthusiast it spites me now I didn't. If the last day flying was tomorrow and they announced the deal today, I'd be on my way to JFK right now!



    Ha, this reminds me of Dave Barry, one of the finest columnists to ever grace the pages of the daily newspaper. In one of his articles he said something about the Marlins winning the World Series again in 2003, and I quote "...which we do like clockwork every six years"!
    Dave Barry is/was a local treasure indeed. Miss his column in the Miami Herald.
    07-07-2017 09:17 PM
  25. mtf1380's Avatar
    @fatclue_98, Go Dalphines!...may they aspire to be the runner-up, in 2017.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    07-08-2017 08:51 AM
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