1. etphoto's Avatar
    Since I've gotten my Galaxy 8 I've gotten several OS updates. The latest one was waiting for me this morning when I woke. My observation, I remember when I was using Windows Mobile I knew exactly when the updates were coming, what they were and looked forward to them. With Android, I couldn't care less. "Oh, another update - so what " I have no idea what the updates are or what features they contain, nor really care.

    Just a small and trivial observation I wanted to share.
    aximtreo, Player Piano and jmshub like this.
    07-12-2018 08:11 AM
  2. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    I think part of that is any OEM can do what they want with Android. They don't have to take Google's path. They can choose which security updates go on the phone. To a degree it can get to be a mess pretty easily.
    Laura Knotek and J Dubbs like this.
    07-12-2018 08:55 AM
  3. tgp's Avatar
    I feel the same way. My personal opinion is that the way we eagerly awaited updates on WP is that for so long it was behind its counterparts. Any update, to performance or capability, was something to anticipate.

    To a degree it can get to be a mess pretty easily.
    Interesting observation! But why do you call it "a mess"? If an update arrives, install it. If not, don't.

    I think I get what you mean though, if you are referring to the (lack of) security updates. The thing is that virtually nobody cares about that. Its only a few of us here on tech forums who are even aware of it. A lot of people look at updates as an irritation. I don't want to downplay the importance, but I think it's a bigger issue in theory than it is in real life.
    libra89, Elky64 and Laura Knotek like this.
    07-12-2018 09:06 AM
  4. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    I think I get what you mean though, if you are referring to the (lack of) security updates. The thing is that virtually nobody cares about that. Its only a few of us here on tech forums who are even aware of it. A lot of people look at updates as an irritation. I don't want to downplay the importance, but I think it's a bigger issue in theory than it is in real life.
    Well, lack of updates is part of it. The fact that say, <insert random Droid here> gets an update in July, it may not necessarily BE the July patch from Google. It could be a patch from say, February. It could be no patch but some performance bug fixes for the UI. And who knows what else? That's kind of what I mean by it's a mess. So, it's not like a Nexus/Pixel, where you get an update, once installed, you know you are as up to date as far as Google is concerned. Shift to a Samsung, and which carrier....you could be all over the map.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-12-2018 10:38 AM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    Well, lack of updates is part of it. The fact that say, <insert random Droid here> gets an update in July, it may not necessarily BE the July patch from Google. It could be a patch from say, February. It could be no patch but some performance bug fixes for the UI. And who knows what else? That's kind of what I mean by it's a mess. So, it's not like a Nexus/Pixel, where you get an update, once installed, you know you are as up to date as far as Google is concerned. Shift to a Samsung, and which carrier....you could be all over the map.
    Yes I see your point. I guess I take a bit more of a pragmatic approach. I'm not convinced that regular security updates make a difference in the real world. I think it's more of an ideological viewpoint than a real life benefit. That's why I wouldn't classify it as a "mess". If an update arrives, install it. If not, obviously you won't! And in the meantime, enjoy your device of choice. Whether or not you have the July patch is probably not going to make a difference.

    How do we know what is in those patches anyway? For all we know, they are changing the date and version number and pushing it out. There is scarcely more than a 0% chance we're going to be exploited anyway.

    The difference in real world experience between a non update device and one that is updated is probably like the difference between someone helping you out of a financial bind by giving you a nickel rather than a penny. Sure, it's 5x the value, but it's not going to make a noticeable difference.

    Samsung devices are generally considered to be some of the most secure mobile devices in existence. Now, here on a Windows forum you certainly won't find that opinion! But look at the real world, and tell me where you see problems mitigated by regular security updates on mobile devices.
    07-12-2018 11:14 AM
  6. Elky64's Avatar
    Since I've gotten my Galaxy 8 I've gotten several OS updates. The latest one was waiting for me this morning when I woke. My observation, I remember when I was using Windows Mobile I knew exactly when the updates were coming, what they were and looked forward to them. With Android, I couldn't care less. "Oh, another update - so what " I have no idea what the updates are or what features they contain, nor really care.

    Just a small and trivial observation I wanted to share.
    I'll gladly accept an update (OS / firmware) whether it's on a phone, computer, camera, etc. If there's the probability of it enhancing my user experience / providing extra features why wouldn't I? So definitely look forward when they arrive on ANY platform.

    So my observation - You haven't embraced Android (nor does it sound like you want too) continuing to use it reluctantly.
    J Dubbs likes this.
    07-13-2018 04:14 PM
  7. Elky64's Avatar
    I'm not convinced that regular security updates make a difference in the real world.
    And that is how I see it. Yes it is nice to have the latest in HOPES one is protected but from my standpoint, those phones I'm using that are behind the times don't run any differently nor have we been inundated w/pop-ups, viruses, etc.
    07-13-2018 04:22 PM
  8. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yes I see your point. I guess I take a bit more of a pragmatic approach. I'm not convinced that regular security updates make a difference in the real world. I think it's more of an ideological viewpoint than a real life benefit. That's why I wouldn't classify it as a "mess". If an update arrives, install it. If not, obviously you won't! And in the meantime, enjoy your device of choice. Whether or not you have the July patch is probably not going to make a difference.

    How do we know what is in those patches anyway? For all we know, they are changing the date and version number and pushing it out. There is scarcely more than a 0% chance we're going to be exploited anyway.

    The difference in real world experience between a non update device and one that is updated is probably like the difference between someone helping you out of a financial bind by giving you a nickel rather than a penny. Sure, it's 5x the value, but it's not going to make a noticeable difference.

    Samsung devices are generally considered to be some of the most secure mobile devices in existence. Now, here on a Windows forum you certainly won't find that opinion! But look at the real world, and tell me where you see problems mitigated by regular security updates on mobile devices.
    Maybe this validates your position. I'm a Windows Central member and I concur that Samsungs are among the safest Androids. They partnered with BlackBerry a few years ago to shore up Knox in return for some of those sweet dual edged amoleds slated for the Priv. It's understandable that my S8+ is on the current security update but so is my "ancient" S6 Edge+.

    I've always been of the opinion that security updates are more important than OS updates. Particularly on the hot mess that is Android.
    nate0 and J Dubbs like this.
    07-13-2018 08:38 PM
  9. tgp's Avatar
    I've always been of the opinion that security updates are more important than OS updates.
    I agree... in theory. But like I said, I don't believe it's a problem in real life. Android does have its security issues. But it's nothing that regular security updates will fix.

    I never hear of actual problems in this area. I read that it's possible, sure. But it's either from businesses who sell security, or on Microsoft fan forums such as this one.

    I am practical to a fault.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-13-2018 08:49 PM
  10. nate0's Avatar
    In my opinion most updates on Android are a joke, sorry to say. Most of them are hacked and exploited before they arrive or shortly after. I say MOST....The dev/hacker community spend hrs and hrs every day doing this and that is their life. It does depend on the device you use of course...Granted some mobile platforms are built more securely (Qualcomm vs Exynos vs Kirin vs Mediatek etc) and the OEMs can allow more or less features (boot loader unlocking and whatnot) depending on the platform they choose or use, yet Android is what it is. To our average Android user though none of that/this matters much though.

    We all know Android is open source and OEMs can use whatever they want of Android code and post their sources in a timely manner, but honestly to Googles profit not anyone else. It is up to whatever maker to make their device as hardened as they want. I hoped for Samsung and other valuable/good OEMs to build their own kernel and OS. Now am not sure what that would mean in the long run. Would it be more secure or better in any way. Tizen and Sailfish are some of the few, but the world is trained to be sucked into the Android Play store which in itself has only recently been taken to the cleaner by Google.

    Microsoft does disclose all their updates and they are available to the public too. We know very little of what is in an Android update or at times absolutely nothing because the OEM is not held to that same standard I suppose? I don't know. Maybe it is the carriers...?
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    07-13-2018 11:54 PM
  11. nate0's Avatar
    Samsung devices are generally considered to be some of the most secure mobile devices in existence. Now, here on a Windows forum you certainly won't find that opinion! But look at the real world, and tell me where you see problems mitigated by regular security updates on mobile devices.
    Hi tgp, I typically use Samsung, LG or Google made devices if I use Android.
    You might be surprised on what opinions are out there about Samsung devices or even Google's etc. I know I have my own as well. Truly a device like these are mostly as secure as you let it or want it to be. Some devices off the shelf are just way better at it automatically on their own than others. BB devices, most of the newer Sammy phones, and Google hardware are some that are mostly better at it. Nokia/HMD is one of the other makers I would take notice of as well. They push out updates real fast.

    The "mobile device movement" let's call it, is what we are in the middle of. Millions upon billions of these devices are floating around the world every where. If you actually knew which devices had problems that got mitigated regularly you might be surprised. I am not saying I know the answer to this but you have to look at it from the eyes of the InfoSec professionals out there. A patch may go out and it may have a fix in it that you look at and say to your self "well that will never happen to me or has never happened" and install it and go about your way. But what it took for the team of engineers to decide to put that fix or patch into existence in the first place is so that those thousands out of millions and millions of devices that were affected would be corrected. Most of us are not 1 of thousands out of millions and millions. Fortunately of course...
    fatclue_98 and J Dubbs like this.
    07-14-2018 04:02 AM

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