07-18-2017 03:31 PM
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  1. romaink's Avatar
    I can’t help but notice all these articles popping up around the web on the death of Windows Phone, while I stare at my Lumia 950 charging on my desk.
    Interestingly, these appear more numerous than when Microsoft launched its last devices.

    Yesterday was the perfect opportunity for Microsoft to remind everyone of their commitment to Windows on phones or mobile, or whatever Microsoft wants to call the next thing.
    But what do we get from Microsoft? Silence! Opportunity missed.
    It's baffling how such a huge corporation is this poor at marketing and communication. If there was a time to remind the media and the users that you were not done, this was it.

    I still remember my red Nokia Lumia 920. Almost designed to perfection. It still is, in my opinion one of the best smartphones ever manufactured.
    It was also loaded with features that are still being introduced today on other platforms. (some users are still waiting on wireless charging)

    The problem... or Microsoft’s problem?
    Users saw value in the products; Microsoft did not. They gave up on Nokia months after releasing a few waves of cool devices, then destroyed the history and legacy of Nokia, while flushing 7Bn down the pipes.

    Apps... the elephant in the room.
    Worst case would be to allow .APK files to run on the platform, which we know is possible. This was quickly disabled from developer options.

    To those who say silence is their form of communicating the exit from the mobile space, that would be another terrible decision.
    How do you create a "mobile first, cloud first" world without a mobile device? Software alone is not going to be enough,
    How do you gain credibility in the mobile space after abandoning it numerous times. This matters with software as well as hardware.

    There is room for more players in the mobile space, but Microsoft has to regain the trust of users to be part of it.
    On my desk next to my Lumia 950, is a OnePlus 2, but I’d really like to have just one device.
    Microsoft made that choice much easier with their retrenchment from the market.

    However, after almost a year of using the OnePlus 2 as my daily device, a few things have become clear to me.

    • I still prefer the interactive layout of Windows Mobile 10


    • That smooth scrolling quickly disappeared on the OP2, but it’s still there on the Lumia 950


    • The backup solution built into Windows Mobile 10 is far superior to what exists on OP2 or Android. I miss the ability to sign in once and recover not just my apps and settings, but also my system preferences and start screen layout with folders. I had to root my OP2 and flash a custom ROM to get this level of backup on Android and it’s still not at the level of WM 10.


    • I don’t enjoy using my daily device. It works and it has all the apps, but I miss the experience of Windows Mobile 10. It made reading and scrolling through pictures fun. It would be great to once again own a device which I enjoy using. I can truly say this about the Lumia 950 on its most stable build.


    • I miss the quality of the PureView camera. It snaps great shots without dual lenses.


    • I miss the functionality of Cortana where my messages would be dictated to me automatically in the car, or the ability to open any app with my voice while driving.


    These are just a few features that I miss which may go away forever with the “Death of Windows Phone”.
    I know Windows 10 Mobile is around, but for how much longer?
    Microsoft can do something about it, but what will it be and how soon? They’ve remained silent for so long that this too may have been the final blow to the platform.
    07-13-2017 01:05 PM
  2. orlandoe117's Avatar
    Interactive layout was always great when just looking at a glance. Made even just looking at the phone more interactive
    romaink likes this.
    07-13-2017 01:16 PM
  3. TgeekB's Avatar
    I can’t help but notice all these articles popping up around the web on the death of Windows Phone, while I stare at my Lumia 950 charging on my desk.
    Interestingly, these appear more numerous than when Microsoft launched its last devices.

    Yesterday was the perfect opportunity for Microsoft to remind everyone of their commitment to Windows on phones or mobile, or whatever Microsoft wants to call the next thing.
    But what do we get from Microsoft? Silence! Opportunity missed.
    It's baffling how such a huge corporation is this poor at marketing and communication. If there was a time to remind the media and the users that you were not done, this was it.

    I still remember my red Nokia Lumia 920. Almost designed to perfection. It still is, in my opinion one of the best smartphones ever manufactured.
    It was also loaded with features that are still being introduced today on other platforms. (some users are still waiting on wireless charging)

    The problem... or Microsoft’s problem?
    Users saw value in the products; Microsoft did not. They gave up on Nokia months after releasing a few waves of cool devices, then destroyed the history and legacy of Nokia, while flushing 7Bn down the pipes.

    Apps... the elephant in the room.
    Worst case would be to allow .APK files to run on the platform, which we know is possible. This was quickly disabled from developer options.

    To those who say silence is their form of communicating the exit from the mobile space, that would be another terrible decision.
    How do you create a "mobile first, cloud first" world without a mobile device? Software alone is not going to be enough,
    How do you gain credibility in the mobile space after abandoning it numerous times. This matters with software as well as hardware.

    There is room for more players in the mobile space, but Microsoft has to regain the trust of users to be part of it.
    On my desk next to my Lumia 950, is a OnePlus 2, but I’d really like to have just one device.
    Microsoft made that choice much easier with their retrenchment from the market.

    However, after almost a year of using the OnePlus 2 as my daily device, a few things have become clear to me.

    • I still prefer the interactive layout of Windows Mobile 10


    • That smooth scrolling quickly disappeared on the OP2, but it’s still there on the Lumia 950


    • The backup solution built into Windows Mobile 10 is far superior to what exists on OP2 or Android. I miss the ability to sign in once and recover not just my apps and settings, but also my system preferences and start screen layout with folders. I had to root my OP2 and flash a custom ROM to get this level of backup on Android and it’s still not at the level of WM 10.


    • I don’t enjoy using my daily device. It works and it has all the apps, but I miss the experience of Windows Mobile 10. It made reading and scrolling through pictures fun. It would be great to once again own a device which I enjoy using. I can truly say this about the Lumia 950 on its most stable build.


    • I miss the quality of the PureView camera. It snaps great shots without dual lenses.


    • I miss the functionality of Cortana where my messages would be dictated to me automatically in the car, or the ability to open any app with my voice while driving.


    These are just a few features that I miss which may go away forever with the “Death of Windows Phone”.
    I know Windows 10 Mobile is around, but for how much longer?
    Microsoft can do something about it, but what will it be and how soon? They’ve remained silent for so long that this too may have been the final blow to the platform.
    Very nicely written. I guess at least you can say you enjoyed those days with your WM devices. Unfortunately now it's just nostalgia.

    It is what it is. You can only choose to stay along for the ride, whatever that is, or move on. There is no other choice until MS provides you, or anyone else interested, with their game plan.
    07-13-2017 05:08 PM
  4. T Moore's Avatar
    We knew in 2015 when the end of support for 8.1 would be, same thing for Windows 10 Mobile.
    Amazingly my 8.1 phone still works.
    07-14-2017 09:28 PM
  5. Drael646464's Avatar
    My phone still works. What happened to yours?
    07-14-2017 10:59 PM
  6. Timbre70's Avatar
    Of course they will still work.😊
    Only that there's no support that's all.
    You will be fine if you just use it for call, messaging, email, web surfing.
    theefman likes this.
    07-14-2017 11:28 PM
  7. darrell reimer's Avatar
    My phone still works. What happened to yours?
    Yes - my 'dead' 950 XL still takes amazing pics and fulfills all my needs. Just visited my grown children in Toronto; they both use iPhone 6; i took a ton of pics, and i kept hearing over and over "Dad - your phone takes such good pictures!" My pics look better than their camera shots; my screen looks WAY better than iPhone 6. Battery lasts WAY longer too...
    aximtreo and Drael646464 like this.
    07-14-2017 11:38 PM
  8. Drael646464's Avatar
    Of course they will still work.������
    Only that there's no support that's all.
    You will be fine if you just use it for call, messaging, email, web surfing.
    And gaming, and photo editing, and navigation, and social networking, VR 360 video, email, cloud services, documents, fitness apps, wearables and and and.

    Microsofts "lack of support" (Ie weekly bugfixes and updates and development drive for the uwp platform), doesn't prevent you from using it, just like you would otherwise. It doesn't change or diminish the functionality in any way, for me at least.

    The only people I've been able to determine can't get the functionality they need is smarthome IoT enthusiasts (which nobody really needs, but I understand some find fun), trend fixated teenagers, and heavy travellers. And I am pretty sure that's always been the case of win10m.

    I LOVE delving into new UWP apps. I'm constantly following free deals, and monitoring the store. I When I see something new I like, I am on it. I'm basically an app collector lol. And when I find something really good, it goes on my desktop and tablet too.

    Windows on arm is going to be very exciting for me, because I know that will bring more full UWP (UWPs run native on WoA devices, whereas win32 runs more slowly under emulation). For that, "support" or not, I'm going to have a ball with my phone next year and the one after, after WoA's release, and initial take up, revealing in all the conversions/ports and new apps that will bring, some at least of which, will be unique to the platform due to the centennial bridge.

    I've got 19 really super solid games on my mobile, so I never ever get bored when waiting. Too many, but I am prepared lol. I'm into games, and I am happy win10m is not lacking there.

    I've got my magazine, comic and book collection for similar reasons (loaded with media), via the great UWP book viewer. Office/productivity apps of course, a bevvy of excellent photo editing apps, because what would a Lumia be, without constantly taking amazeballs pictures your friends always wonder how you managed to make them look so good.

    Continuum for that on the go Netflix action. Cortana's tricks, inline replies, groove and edge. All the social networking, apps for my smartband wearable, fitness apps, all sorts of tools, news etc. Fresh Paint can be a bit of fun too, on win10m, specially with my capacitive battery powered stylus. When I have finished saving, I'll be getting FL studio mobile - so I can make tunes on the go. Love the idea of creativity on the go.

    I mean I won't go into all the apps I've got or functions, but its not like "oh msft hasn't added any new features for awhile" = lost functionality of the phone.

    Y'all make it sound like a little bit of quietude on the feature and new phone front has suddenly turned these phones into 90s feature phones! No such vast change has occurred, and there's at least as many new UWPs, as abandoned silverlights. The later of which you will only care about if you use your phone a certain, quite specific, way.

    I do more with my Lumia, than I ever did with android or bb10. UWP is growing, and it's the future of all of windows, one way or another. Even if my phone never got ONE additional OS feature, I don't see the cause for lamentation, or cynicism. Because it runs UWP.

    And UWP must grow, no questions, the whole of windows 10, and the next gen, hybrid, one OS vision of Windows depends on the success of UWP.

    Now if my phone was only "a mobile OS" and didn't share the linked fate of desktop, console, mixed reality and so on, yeah, I might be concerned if the OS makers seemed focused on something else.

    When that happened with bb10, the app store just tanked.

    But its all connected, so it doesn't bother me at all. If they promoted UWP on desktop, console, mixed reality, some new mobile device, windows on arm, window s whether its just centennial at first, or islandwood, or whatever = it's all going to benefit my Lumia in the end. Because its all connected, its all about one OS, on every type of hardware running one app platform.

    In the meantime we get the focus on bugfixes we should have gotten a long time ago! Huge fan of that. SO good, and I'd rather have all the major bugs fixed than even one new feature.

    Not that, we won't get timeline, Cortana skills, files on demand or cloud clipboard. I think we'll get at least most of those, and MSFT said at build 2017 we would, and they are largely app based and that work will be done for android, ios and desktop anyway.

    I'm not expecting a "surface phone" made from the tears of jesus, that can transform into a small jet plane. I don't think msft is "all in on mobile phones". I don't believe in jason wards "ultimate mobile flangette".

    I don't even think smartphones in their current form of OS or FF will be important in a decade. I think they'll be superceeded by AR and flexible bigger screens.

    But I am pumped about whats around the corner for the app platform, and the whole OS, as a next gen OS. And one way or another, as a UWP centred platform, win10m gets to enjoy that ride. It's all good guys, cheer up :)
    Last edited by Drael646464; 07-15-2017 at 02:45 AM.
    07-15-2017 02:19 AM
  9. Elky64's Avatar
    Microsofts "lack of support" (Ie weekly bugfixes and updates and development drive for the uwp platform), doesn't prevent you from using it, just like you would otherwise. It doesn't change or diminish the functionality in any way, for me at least

    Not convinced MSFT's regular bugfixes/updates constitutes a golden star, from my perspective they have done little to improve "my" personal experience and we're talking over a 1.5-2 year period. If I were to compare with the single update I've received on each of my Android devices, MSFT's efforts definitely pale in comparison. Then I look at how many times I've had to babysit or wipe my Windows Phones compared to the others rather than using as intended, that there alone speaks volumes.

    And no, it doesn't prevent me from using it but DOES limit what we can do or achieve with it. When there's non-existent apps coupled with a browser/browsers, that in some instances, are unable to take up the slack, soon one will find they've hit the end of the road becoming a case of "that's as far as you go". Honestly, cannot recall ever encountering same on any other platform.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the platform and would love to see it succeed but it is severely flawed falling short for many. Then there's the silence that gets "louder" each day making it pretty obvious where it's not going.
    Last edited by Elky64; 07-15-2017 at 04:45 PM.
    07-15-2017 01:51 PM
  10. romaink's Avatar
    My phone still works. What happened to yours?
    Like I said, my phone still works, but is this good enough? We've got to demand a higher quality of such an important device.

    If my phone ran with stability, like the WP8.1 days, my opinion would be different.
    Right now, I can't even get Bluetooth audio to play for a full song without stuttering. I've tried every suggestion, but what it comes down to is that stability is lost almost every time Microsoft releases an update. It's been over 6 months and no update has resolved the issue.

    Then the camera is great, but I miss so many important moments because of the "saving..." and random reboot issue. It happens less than before, but the issue is still there. Those are moments I can never get back.

    Then there's the app issue. I did this for years, but developers don't seem to have incentives to bring their apps to the platform, even with the UWP potential. As time has gone by, there are certain apps that I must have. If I had the choice to load all essential .apk files, this would change everything.

    So yeah, this is not just a complaint to bash Microsoft. I've been a Windows Phone user since WP7 days and helped to sell a whole lot of devices to family and friends. The quality of service and stability has been significantly reduced and it is not too much to expect better from your daily device.
    07-15-2017 07:30 PM
  11. TgeekB's Avatar
    Like I said, my phone still works, but is this good enough? We've got to demand a higher quality of such an important device.

    If my phone ran with stability, like the WP8.1 days, my opinion would be different.
    Right now, I can't even get Bluetooth audio to play for a full song without stuttering. I've tried every suggestion, but what it comes down to is that stability is lost almost every time Microsoft releases an update. It's been over 6 months and no update has resolved the issue.

    Then the camera is great, but I miss so many important moments because of the "saving..." and random reboot issue. It happens less than before, but the issue is still there. Those are moments I can never get back.

    Then there's the app issue. I did this for years, but developers don't seem to have incentives to bring their apps to the platform, even with the UWP potential. As time has gone by, there are certain apps that I must have. If I had the choice to load all essential .apk files, this would change everything.

    So yeah, this is not just a complaint to bash Microsoft. I've been a Windows Phone user since WP7 days and helped to sell a whole lot of devices to family and friends. The quality of service and stability has been significantly reduced and it is not too much to expect better from your daily device.
    Everything you have said is true. Some people will tolerate it but most won't. Making excuses or talking about some unknown future don't help. MS has to prove to consumers that they are going to support them and provide them with quality products. Otherwise they should just stick to enterprise.
    dgr_874, romaink, Elky64 and 2 others like this.
    07-15-2017 07:52 PM
  12. Drael646464's Avatar
    Like I said, my phone still works, but is this good enough? We've got to demand a higher quality of such an important device.

    If my phone ran with stability, like the WP8.1 days, my opinion would be different.
    Right now, I can't even get Bluetooth audio to play for a full song without stuttering. I've tried every suggestion, but what it comes down to is that stability is lost almost every time Microsoft releases an update. It's been over 6 months and no update has resolved the issue.

    Then the camera is great, but I miss so many important moments because of the "saving..." and random reboot issue. It happens less than before, but the issue is still there. Those are moments I can never get back.

    Then there's the app issue. I did this for years, but developers don't seem to have incentives to bring their apps to the platform, even with the UWP potential. As time has gone by, there are certain apps that I must have. If I had the choice to load all essential .apk files, this would change everything.

    So yeah, this is not just a complaint to bash Microsoft. I've been a Windows Phone user since WP7 days and helped to sell a whole lot of devices to family and friends. The quality of service and stability has been significantly reduced and it is not too much to expect better from your daily device.
    As a new windows 10m user, I guess its hard not to have a vastly different perspective.

    I arrived after the bugfixing was underway, so I've not really had any major stability issues. Certain apps, particular apps occasionally get the resume bug, and that's about it.

    The insider preview I enrolled in, specifically fixed Bluetooth for me, which before that, didn't bind AT ALL. So, seems to me like the bugfixes are pretty important. Or that was my experience.

    App wise, I see new UWPs coming in all the time. In the last six months, even in the last weeks, new games and apps.

    As a new user, I am more focused on these, that retiring silverlights (which of course I don't use). So the app situation from my perspective seems like "the beginning stages of UWP", rather than "the end stages of Silverlight". UWP is of course a popular way to code new apps and games, or in some cases port (such as with the Go series games, which used to be win32, then Silverlight, then UWP).

    It seems like with apps on win10m, its where you are focused, and what your use pattern is that dictates how you perceive it. For my useage pattern, which I guess more resembles my tablet and desktop useage (social media, photo apps, productivity, gaming), I find it something to be optimistic about.

    If one was heavy into the mobile apps (chat, banking, smartwear, IoT, share economies, teen app trends), one would probably find it disappointing. but I think even in the hay days of Silverlight, that still would have been the case compared to android - it wouldn't have stacked up, even with some devs coming on board.

    It's my expectation that windows on arm, on tablets and notebooks will be the game changer for UWP. win32's run slowly under emulation, at best, at 70% speed. That makes UWP an attractive proposition for developers, because notebooks are a huge market, and users aren't even going to know what WoA is, they'll just see a laptop with calling and LTE, looking slim with long battery life, and buy it.

    If devs aren't think about UWP now because of how that will impact their users UX, they are in for a shock. "near native under most circumstances" means noticeably slower than native UWPs. Which means looking bad next to the competition. In the fastest growing PC market.

    Similarly, that always connected LTE, is useful for mobility apps, in a way, that hasn't really applied to windows. You can, for example use a cell phone number to mediate chat apps, or get toast notifications whilst the device is sleeping for chat apps. You can use GPS for share economy apps. This, given notebooks are, as I mentioned a significant and large userbase, should encourage devs to finally port their mobility apps via islandwood. Which will be ported to full UWP, like the win32's that find themselves struggling with performance issues.

    At least, if I was expecting anything to impact the uptake of full UWP and increase developent of UWP - for me I'd expect that thing to be Windows on ARM.

    I guess my point being that a "lack of focus on mobile", isn't nessasarily bad for mobile. UWP is a shared platform. Whatever is good for UWP, is good for the mobile UX. And so there logically will be ways of "focusing on something else", that will, in the long run, benefit mobile.

    Anyway, side topic!

    Yeah, I do get, and do hear that people who have been long into windows phones, are tired of the reboots, bugged by the silence/de-priority, annoyed that Silverlight apps they have long used are gone and so on. I hear that, I understand why folks would have that experience and perspective.

    Obviously that has been very frustrating for some folks, and maybe it gives you guys some insights I don't have, and vice versa.

    But I still don't think that win10m is a useless experience, or that it is like a feature phone or whatever.

    I think app wise, its generally pretty decent for most ordinary people, particularly people who like apps in the stronger areas like productivity, gaming, photos. It's better than bb10, and better than amazon app world, and I can see growth, not merely Silverlight apps jumping ship.

    Because UWP is essentially a two year old platform, and the biggest change the entire windows platform has ever gone through - it doesn't much surprise me that take up is still slow, or that things are "early".
    For me, that suggests the most exciting times for the UWP app platform are ahead - that being here now, is being here at the start of something. Which whether its EDM music, or hipster beards, or some new tech is always a fun experience. You get to see it bloom.

    UWP being the whole centre piece to the "one OS" vision MSFT has repeated like a mantra since windows 10 released, and the centre piece to "0D to 4D" the new fluent design mantra, you can see that clearly UWP is actually the core to the whole direction of windows 10. Its more key than cshell or anything else. And no one else will get to experience that ride, as intimately as mobile users.

    I think stability wise - eh, its not perfect. I do hope this increased focus on bugfixes leads to the major ones being ironed out.

    But from what I have heard, and what I experience myself on the stock build, its a tonne better. I don't personally think its so buggy that its unuseable, or a turn off to average people, in its current state (especially when all the insiders builds become production), but it also could use a touch more polish IMO, just to be....really good, rather than "great but ..."
    Last edited by Drael646464; 07-16-2017 at 01:00 AM.
    07-16-2017 12:19 AM
  13. TgeekB's Avatar
    We'll see if/when this all happens.
    07-16-2017 08:59 AM
  14. Drael646464's Avatar
    We'll see if/when this all happens.
    If it doesn't, I wonder what people will code on if windows dies?

    It's not like humanities going to ride off into a happy sunset anyway tho, I mean the future will probably somewhat resemble and episode of black mirror.

    I just hope we don't become soulless monsters throwing babies into pits for TV entertainment too fast. I've got a while left here. I suppose it becoming a google and apple world isn't really the worst that could happen.
    07-16-2017 09:10 AM
  15. TgeekB's Avatar
    If it doesn't, I wonder what people will code on if windows dies. Mac I suppose?
    We're talking about phone, right?
    07-16-2017 09:11 AM
  16. Drael646464's Avatar
    We're talking about phone, right?
    I was talking about UWP, which is sort of phone, but sort of not, and just windows in general. And then I was talking about thowing babies into pits for entertainment.
    07-16-2017 09:17 AM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    I was talking about UWP, which is sort of phone, but sort of not, and just windows in general. And then I was talking about thowing babies into pits for entertainment.
    I honestly have no idea what your talking about, but I admire your enthusiasm.
    Most of the people here, I imagine, are interested in and talking about the mobile phones they carry around daily to help them with their everyday tasks. They feel they are losing that and it's upsetting to them, which is understandable. They watch other OS's advance and improve while the one they chose does not. The future of mobile on this side is a mystery and may not include average consumers for years. We can talk about ARM all we want, and I hope it truly does provide future advancement for MS, but it's still a dream.
    I don't think using these possible future technologies as an answer helps consumers feel better now.
    dgr_874 and Timbre70 like this.
    07-16-2017 09:27 AM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    I honestly have no idea what your talking about, but I admire your enthusiasm.
    Most of the people here, I imagine, are interested in and talking about the mobile phones they carry around daily to help them with their everyday tasks. They feel they are losing that and it's upsetting to them, which is understandable. They watch other OS's advance and improve while the one they chose does not. The future of mobile on this side is a mystery and may not include average consumers for years. We can talk about ARM all we want, and I hope it truly does provide future advancement for MS, but it's still a dream.
    I don't think using these possible future technologies as an answer helps consumers feel better now.
    Well I guess if I were to put it simply in a way.

    Win10m ain't like those other OSes. Its a branch of this sort of "future plan", for a scalable, run on anything, no screen to VR platform.

    UWP, which is the app platform win10m runs, isn't a mobile app platform. It's supposed to be this next gen, new thing, that you know, runs on everything.

    Its also the biggest change that desktop platform has every experienced. Big stuff.

    Which in a way, makes win10m, sort of like a prototype, or a beta, of something the world has never had. Rather than just a mobile OS, like those other OSes.

    That's just the way it is, like it or not. MSFT wants to make windows something that stays useful for a long period of time, has longevity. Windows is a very ambitious project right now.

    So that, when everybody stops buying slab phones or desktop computers, or some other shift occurs, and we all use folding tablets, or VR, or chips in our brain or _whatever_, windows can still be there. It can run on anything, any how. It's never put out to pasture because its designed to be flexible.

    While the others fade in our memory, like the amstrad64, and the Walkman.

    And all those other companies? Well eventually they'll probably try to do the same thing. And they'll also have to rebuild their app platforms from stratch leveraging the old, in a slow and complex process

    Company like MSFT, that's been around through a lot of changes, smart enough to see the writing on the wall. Nothing stays the same forever, specially in tech.

    Of course, someone could still write some fancy AI OS, that ruins all of them, makes every one of them redundant, because its so damned smart. So they have to keep in that race too.

    Nothing is every fully certain. But its a bit like building up the structure of your house. Its annoying but it helps avoid the whole thing falling over. It might be nice just to have a house to be in, or use, with everything you want. But if you don't spend time building up the foundations you might not get to enjoy it that long.

    ....


    As for ARM. Myself, it seems logical arm will enhance UWP uptake, TO ME.

    16 percent of PC sales, and growing are laptops. 5 percent of tablets and growing, are windows tablets. The future is, increasingly mobile.

    Those mobile device users, are going to want built in LTE, and longer battery life, and smaller forms - because those are "mobile" features. Seems only logical when windows on arm is released this year, December, these many OEMs products will sell, well.

    Now, just picture. one company has a UWP. It supports scaling UI, it runs fast, it has toast notifications, location, even while the device is sleeping - its a modern app.

    Another company has a win32. It doesn't scale, it runs at 70 percent of the speed or WORSE (its emulation). It doesn't have toast notifications, it doesn't use location, and its dormant when your device is sleeping.

    The average user tries both apps. Everything else being equal, which one gets their dollars?

    Now there is a) a large consumer userbase and b) a real market driver for native UWP(performance)

    If I ran a dev company, I'd be working on my UWP now. One could lose serious dollars by being late to the party IMO.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 07-16-2017 at 10:55 AM.
    07-16-2017 10:36 AM
  19. TgeekB's Avatar
    Once again, how does that help current mobile users who continue to leave the platform? We're talking this, IF it happens as you say, is years away.
    When do you think, realistically, people will "stop buying slabs, etc." and have chips in their brains? I'm not saying this won't eventually work out at some future point for MS but you keep ignoring current users. You just talk about some future technology, which is interesting, but not available to the public. I think we have to separate the two issues: today and some future point. That's all I'm saying.
    Elky64, libra89 and Tsepz_GP like this.
    07-16-2017 11:28 AM
  20. Elky64's Avatar
    Once again, how does that help current mobile users who continue to leave the platform? We're talking this, IF it happens as you say, is years away.
    When do you think, realistically, people will "stop buying slabs, etc." and have chips in their brains? I'm not saying this won't eventually work out at some future point for MS but you keep ignoring current users. You just talk about some future technology, which is interesting, but not available to the public. I think we have to separate the two issues: today and some future point. That's all I'm saying.
    100% agreed. I for one am looking at today because, if and when MSFT gets it figured out, I probably won't be around to enjoy it anyway, or at least not of sound mind ;)
    TgeekB and libra89 like this.
    07-16-2017 02:35 PM
  21. TgeekB's Avatar
    100% agreed. I for one am looking at today because, if and when MSFT gets it figured out, I probably won't be around to enjoy it anyway, or at least not of sound mind ;)
    That's a great point. Perhaps younger users do not feel the time crunch as older ones do. The older I get the more I tend to want to enjoy the present rather than worry about some potential future that may never come or arrives when I'm sitting n my wheelchair staring out the window.
    Elky64 and Guytronic like this.
    07-16-2017 02:41 PM
  22. Drael646464's Avatar
    Once again, how does that help current mobile users who continue to leave the platform? We're talking this, IF it happens as you say, is years away.
    When do you think, realistically, people will "stop buying slabs, etc." and have chips in their brains? I'm not saying this won't eventually work out at some future point for MS but you keep ignoring current users. You just talk about some future technology, which is interesting, but not available to the public. I think we have to separate the two issues: today and some future point. That's all I'm saying.
    I'd say the first emergence of folding tablets and useable affordable consumer AR will probably be 10- years off-ish. That is a fair point, but I mean if you are not prepared to deal with a nascent app platform, your probably going to have to at some point regardless. It's not that bad, I mean, I actually enjoy using my phone. If that doesn't work for you, android still exists (and it might get axed at some point)

    Apple or google, or whoever else wants to guard their tech future will likely have to go through a similar process. In way its good, that's not all happening at the same time.

    By the time apple and google get around to it, windows will already be mature (IMO its not that far off. When we start to see major win32s and ios apps make their few first ports to full uwp, its pretty much 'on', and I think that's probably only a year or so off).

    And while its maturing, ios and android are still supported.
    07-16-2017 04:59 PM
  23. TgeekB's Avatar
    I'd say the first emergence of folding tablets and useable affordable consumer AR will probably be 10- years off-ish. That is a fair point, but I mean if you are not prepared to deal with a nascent app platform, your probably going to have to at some point regardless. It's not that bad, I mean, I actually enjoy using my phone. If that doesn't work for you, android still exists (and it might get axed at some point)

    Apple or google, or whoever else wants to guard their tech future will likely have to go through a similar process. In way its good, that's not all happening at the same time.

    By the time apple and google get around to it, windows will already be mature (IMO its not that far off. When we start to see major win32s and ios apps make their few first ports to full uwp, its pretty much 'on', and I think that's probably only a year or so off).

    And while its maturing, ios and android are still supported.
    That sounds about right. I figured 10 years before this all comes to fruition. Technology this new doesn't pop up overnight.

    As far as the other OS's, I'm not sure they'll go down the same path. I still think there may be a continued market for a "smartphone". Not everyone will want a computer in their pocket. Now 50 years from now, long after I move to the great beyond...
    07-16-2017 05:25 PM
  24. Drael646464's Avatar
    That sounds about right. I figured 10 years before this all comes to fruition. Technology this new doesn't pop up overnight.

    As far as the other OS's, I'm not sure they'll go down the same path. I still think there may be a continued market for a "smartphone". Not everyone will want a computer in their pocket. Now 50 years from now, long after I move to the great beyond...
    I think the market has already proven that people prefer big screens to small, and that small screen touch input, is really only for the portability.

    Once something like AR glasses becomes a viable alternative or folding tablets, the small screen optimised, touch only interface makes about as much sense, as a mouse and keyboard one does on a touch device.

    It's a bit like desktop OS versus mobile OS. When you have those larger output forms, and things like 3d gestures, the existing UI format looses its relavance.

    Google is already developing their hybrid OS, fuschia. that's been leaked, give it a search. I'm pretty positive android will not make it to Z.

    I'm also pretty sure apple will have something similar up its sleeve eventually. No one wants to be last to the party, and tech is all about broad investment and hedging ones bets, not depending on a single, potentially one day redundant income stream.

    In many cases its simply a matter of, if everyone else is doing it, you better be on board. If google and msft are doing it, what are the odds apple just says nah.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 07-16-2017 at 07:25 PM.
    07-16-2017 07:13 PM
  25. bbbar's Avatar
    Murderers
    07-16-2017 07:48 PM
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