1. Akellian's Avatar
    Hello everyone,

    First of all, despite the title is quite angry sounding, it is more of a rage, but without any insult in mind. Therefore, if you feel yourself insulted in any way after reading, well, read again as there is no hidden meaning or else.

    So, here goes.

    I was not planning to write anything related to windows mobile platform for a really good while, was trying to stop myself from doing that since: hey, everybody is right in their own right and everybody has their own opinion. However, recently posted article of why shouldn't anybody buy Alcatel Idol 4 Pro literally burned my *** so I have decided enough is enough in holding it to myself. It may get no support, but at least it will be off my chest.

    First things first, this is the article I am referring to: https://www.windowscentral.com/you-p...dows-10-mobile. I want to criticize this article a lot, but I will stick to a few points only and will ask the author, probably, quite a rhetorical question: on what basis and right do you give this consumer advice judging from your own point of view? To elaborate, which part in particular of Microsoft potentially stopping development of Windows 10 Mobile or support of the phone will make it less of a phone?? If support is stopped, you will not be able to call/send sms/use chats/internet? Oh, you won't have Fluent Design? Awww, what a pity. Support of Facebook/WhatsApp will drop after 2 years? I pity you. I am not even sure the phone no matter how good you take care of it will survive that long. And here I come to the main point: people, article author included, what the **** is wrong with you? You are demanding from Microsoft to be up-to-date about every single detail you can think of. You blame them for not supporting developers and developers not supporting ecosystem because small user database etc, etc.

    Let me try to break down my anger into points and by statements.

    1. Microsoft might drop support for older phones like they did with Nokia series such as our beloved L1020.
    - True. It is possible.
    2. Microsoft will not release Fall Update to existing phones/will not be updating their system.
    - Possible. So? Will your phone become defective? No. Will you be able to use it? Yes. Oh, by any chance, do you think Apple or Google never did the same? I'll tell you more, they made it even worse: they have completely stopped rolling out updates for phones released more than a year ago from their newer build. Side note, I have owned LG P880 which I thought was an awesome phone before I bought it. In terms of updates, it was running I think Android 2.2. I've bought it on the day one. Throughout the year there was Android 2.3 and 2.4 released which followed next year 3.0 (Was it Gingerbread? Don't remember). Guess how many updates have I got? I'll tell you - zero! You can blame LG of course, but it doesn't change the fact that the phone was not supported despite being a flagship.
    3. Microsoft is not supporting devs so they do not release new apps/update existing apps.
    - Look, I do not know the business model of Microsoft and frankly I do not care. However, people... I literally am struggling not to call you names... Let me explain why:
    * People who claim they use professional apps on daily basis and can't live without them.
    I. Are you serious? You can draw on a 5-6 inches like a pro does? Wow, never thought I will see precision of a finger like a paint brush. Oh, you do not draw? You professionally edit documents on the same size of the screen? Wow, you must be really good in scrolling Excel 2000 rows down and 25 columns right and then creating a pivot...
    II. Oh you still insist you do that, but your screen is bigger? Tell you what - you are not using Windows Mobile then, it is Windows on the Tablet/Phablet or call it whatever, but it is a x86/x64 version. Oh, and you know what? There are normal x86/x64 applications (mind you, not apps) that allow you to use their full potential.
    III. Oh, you use Windows 10 S? Name 3 apps for your "professional occupation" you can't get from the store and they only have x86/x64 counterpart. If you, OK, you win this argument, but again - there is an option to upgrade from S to Pro which gets us back to paragraph II.
    IV. And finally, professionals usually use desktop/workstations to do their job. If you are working from a mobile (not a tablet, laptop or something else with a big (sufficient) screen) you are just pretending
    * People who claim there is no or limited banking apps.
    I. Unless your bank is somewhere in Africa which will probably exclude the possibility of having internet banking, but that is not the point, they will have mobile version of the website. Password saving is offered by built-in browser. You will need to enter secondary code only (depending on the country you live in, it may be code card, PIN or w/e). But your username and primary password may be prefilled.
    II. Following previous point, I can't possibly see the reason to trust the banking app which allows you to make some transactions without authorisation. Of course, they are limited to, say, 30EUR per transaction/day (depends on the bank, agreement, etc). Besides, if the bank is kind enough, they will optimize their website so well, that it will scale extremely well on any screen. And no matter how you put it, you have to admit, that most apps are just a site wrappers with some additional elements.
    * Other apps with webpage counterparts
    I. Long story short - if the developer of the website is making a mobile-friendly interface, you should not have any issue opening it from browser.
    * Games.
    I. Right. Here's where I honestly do not have a good argument, except for one: there are two types of games - time killers and arcades. The first one is self-explanatory while the second one I can't really understand people who tend to cry they can't play good games... on the phone... Guys, for good games - there are consoles/Wii/PSP. For excellent games - PC. (Yes, I am from PC master race, but I do like some games on consoles so I do respect them)
    * Social Apps.
    I. Regrettably or not, it is a part of our life. Limited as it may be or may have been (for example, facebook chat for 8.1). You tend to complain about snapchat, instagram (I think on 8.1 it didn't exist). I do not personally use them, I do use FB messenger sometimes, but on daily basis I use WhatsApp, Skype and sometimes Viber.
    II. Get a life?

    I think this concludes my rage mumble. To make things clear, I am not in the 50s, so I am not regretting good-'ol-times, I am not in 20s either, so I know all the evolution from 5.25" FDD to Cloud Storage. I have been user of Windows Mobile from 6.1 upgraded to 6.5 on my Xperia X1 and has sticked to Windows platform ever since (with 3 exceptions, Nokia 3310 and Samsung SGH-D500(?) in my school and mentioned before P880). I know what I want from the phone and despite gaming and working with PCs a lot, not even once I wanted use my phone as a replacement for my PC, until Elite X3 was released and made me desire such possibility. But again, I want it to be a portable PC for work with phone functionality.
    Last edited by Akellian; 07-21-2017 at 09:08 AM.
    07-21-2017 06:23 AM
  2. Nate W's Avatar
    Some good points. I wondered why that article explained why not to buy it, when it was stated later that the author himself was going to pre-order one...that is all I am going to say.

    Edit: Sorry I lied...Some forget that the current branch is supported for 2 years from release date. RS2 is supported from 2 years after April when it was released. Unless your device never moves to a branch cycle then you have to start counting down if you need a newer OS or features.

    Update: Actually I might be wrong on the support cycle. I have been trying to understand it for some time now. Here is a article I found that gives an overview. https://blog.juriba.com/windows-10-branching-timeline
    Last edited by Nate W; 07-21-2017 at 09:05 AM.
    07-21-2017 08:51 AM
  3. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Whilst I understand your passion OP, your rant about screen size for a phone is a bit out when discussing Windows devices. My phone (950XL) uses Continuum and so has a nice big TV or monitor screen and a full keyboard and mouse. What's more, there are a load of promised improvements made at purchase time particularly for Continuum which now seem unlikely to see the light of day (I still hope against hope I'm wrong about that one...) but which will probably turn up on any new device. That stings, and alone is enough to make me feel misled sufficiently to be annoyed about MS.
    07-21-2017 09:33 AM
  4. dgr_874's Avatar
    So you are upset that an opinion article does not have the same opinion as you do?

    TLDR version, you are upset that someone wants something different from their phone than you do?

    I'm confused as hell...
    07-21-2017 10:11 AM
  5. Akellian's Avatar
    @AndyCalling Fair enough. I am owning 950XL myself but I regret that I cannot use its Continuum simply due to there is no reason for me to do so, but I love the idea that you can bring your documents with you in a pocket. Therefore, I cannot objectively say whether there is sufficient development in that sense. On the other hand, I think they have a small excuse as they are first comers in that area. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to defend them, but I do believe they receive too much of a misguided critics.
    fin11 and Elky64 like this.
    07-21-2017 10:42 AM
  6. techiez's Avatar
    I think the article was fair enough, MS is extremely tight lipped about its mobile plans and looking at the clues or breadcrumbs its leaving its not difficult to guess W10M is dead as it is, or call it on life support if not dead.
    The kind of arguments you gave, well you are the kind of person who will not be swayed by that article, but then there are others who are want W10M but would like apps and upgrades etc and will be pissed off if there happens a reboot couple of months down the line or if the phone doesnt get next series of updates(fall creators update) so this article is directed towards those users.

    The kind of arguments u gave would have been applicable to Win7.5 as well right, but there was a lot of outrage from users of L800 and L900, the article was just trying save users from burning their fingers.
    Elky64 likes this.
    07-22-2017 01:15 PM
  7. techiez's Avatar
    Also you made a point abt mobile websites, well, an APP is always more convenient, and even if the developer designs the best mobile website of all time still edge sucks, half of the time it goes unresponsive and need to kill it and reload. You can make all kinds of arguments as to why no one needs apps but fact is ppl use apps, ppl prefer apps, and just because MS is not able to have apps on WM doesnt mean apps are obsolete.
    Elky64, HeyCori, aximtreo and 1 others like this.
    07-22-2017 01:21 PM
  8. Elky64's Avatar
    Also you made a point abt mobile websites, well, an APP is always more convenient, and even if the developer designs the best mobile website of all time still edge sucks, half of the time it goes unresponsive and need to kill it and reload. You can make all kinds of arguments as to why no one needs apps but fact is ppl use apps, ppl prefer apps, and just because MS is not able to have apps on WM doesnt mean apps are obsolete.
    And when faced with "your OS/browser is not supported" while trying to use Edge (or other WM browser) in place of a non-existent app, it is "the end of the road for you". I for one prefer apps as feel they are better tailored for small screen devices, can't always say the same for websites... Yes there are some poor apps but haven't found that being an issue on my Droids.
    TgeekB, Nate W, libra89 and 3 others like this.
    07-22-2017 05:50 PM
  9. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I think it's safe to say that the OP is upset. While I don't totally agree with him he's correct on many points. While it's true that professionals don't do all their work on a phone-sized display, there are times when a small edit needs to be done on-the-fly on time-sensitive documents. A laptop or tablet is not always available but most people carry their phones at all times.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you can do mobile deposits on a website. I've never done this so I'm not sure. For those who do depend on this feature it's understandable to be upset if your bank doesn't offer a W10M app.

    Social media. What can I say that hasn't been said already? I cannot understand people's addiction to social media and don't try to explain it to me because I really don't care. I do know that I'm looking to get a train horn for my truck because I saw something the other day that really filled my heart with joy. A young lady was at a traffic light and of course, was banging away at her keyboard when the light turned green. After about 15 seconds a woman in an Escalade behind this Facebook butterfly blasted her train horn and the young lady damn near had a heart attack. Classic!!! My only regret was that I wasn't filming because it had YouTube hit written all over it.

    As for Microsoft's business practices, que será será. They're not alone in broken promises. Buy what works today, tomorrow is a promise to no one.
    07-22-2017 06:31 PM
  10. TgeekB's Avatar
    Am I the only one who doesn't read 5000 word forum posts?
    07-22-2017 08:16 PM
  11. Nate W's Avatar
    Am I the only one who doesn't read 5000 word forum posts?
    Didn't you read my post above about folks who post without reading first....geesh!. ;)
    TgeekB and libra89 like this.
    07-22-2017 08:37 PM
  12. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Am I the only one who doesn't read 5000 word forum posts?
    If it's devoid of grammar mistakes, flows well and makes a point then it's worth it to read.
    aximtreo, Guytronic and kaktus1389 like this.
    07-23-2017 11:14 AM
  13. TgeekB's Avatar
    If it's devoid of grammar mistakes, flows well and makes a point then it's worth it to read.
    Well, that cuts it down quite a bit.
    It's probably just me. I think of a forum as a place to make comments, seek information but keep the flow going. I get bored with long posts that usually are someone defending their point. I read enough peer reviewed articles to get long reads in.
    No condescension meant to anyone that writes long posts though. I know we all have different ways of communicating.
    fatclue_98, libra89 and Guytronic like this.
    07-23-2017 11:23 AM
  14. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Well, that cuts it down quite a bit.
    It's probably just me. I think of a forum as a place to make comments, seek information but keep the flow going. I get bored with long posts that usually are someone defending their point. I read enough peer reviewed articles to get long reads in.
    No condescension meant to anyone that writes long posts though. I know we all have different ways of communicating.
    Well yeah, but sometimes people like to give detailed descriptions and it can come off as being a wordy diatribe. I like short and sweet myself, I'll ask the time and someone tells me how to build a clock.

    Sent from my Galaxy S8+
    TgeekB, libra89, aximtreo and 3 others like this.
    07-23-2017 12:21 PM
  15. mtf1380's Avatar
    Am I the only one who doesn't read 5000 word forum posts?
    NO! you are not:)
    libra89, fatclue_98 and Guytronic like this.
    07-23-2017 12:30 PM
  16. libra89's Avatar
    Well yeah, but sometimes people like to give detailed descriptions and it can come off as being a wordy diatribe. I like short and sweet myself, I'll ask the time and someone tells me how to build a clock.

    Sent from my Galaxy S8+
    For me, it depends on the kind of thread and how I feel. I know that I can fall into long post territory but I try to space it out in a way that makes it not feel like a wall of text.

    If it's a thread about a personal experience, I'll probably read it. If it's another kind of thread about why Microsoft is truly doing the right thing and there are long debates about that, I check out.
    mtf1380, fatclue_98, tgp and 2 others like this.
    07-23-2017 12:31 PM
  17. mtf1380's Avatar
    For me, it depends on the kind of thread and how I feel. I know that I can fall into long post territory but I try to space it out in a way that makes it not feel like a wall of text.

    If it's a thread about a personal experience, I'll probably read it. If it's another kind of thread about why Microsoft is truly doing the right thing and there are long debates about that, I check out.
    I will agree with that:)
    07-23-2017 12:38 PM
  18. tgp's Avatar
    If it's a thread about a personal experience, I'll probably read it. If it's another kind of thread about why Microsoft is truly doing the right thing and there are long debates about that, I check out.
    This pretty much describes me.
    libra89 and fatclue_98 like this.
    07-23-2017 09:59 PM
  19. Guytronic's Avatar
    Am I the only one who doesn't read 5000 word forum posts?
    Include me in this group :)
    techiez, libra89 and fatclue_98 like this.
    07-23-2017 11:20 PM
  20. Akellian's Avatar
    @fatclue_98 Certainly I am upset. I also am wishing MS would take a good position in mobile market and made it their priority as they did with Windows or Office in general. And, regrettably, I do admit people do want to have everything up-to-date irrelevant of whether they need it or not. As I have mentioned, for some reason we do not see too many complaints when we see iOS release say 9.0, and oh look, iPhone 4 is no longer supported. If I recall, the life cycle from iOS 9 to 10 was about a year if not less.The good thing is (which I wow to apple), apps that used to work on previous versions of iOS continue to work on later releases of the OS (at least that is what I have heard from a few friends of mine owning iPhone. However, truth be told, they swapped to newer model once they could so I can't objectively say whether their statement was due to new phone or their own impression :)). Can't say the same about Android or WM.

    In regards to in-phone edit, maybe I do not use that functionality too much and there are people who are using more advance features than crop, resize and enhance. But I really cannot imagine what else would somebody want to edit. Even documents "scanned" with office lens do have advanced cropping features in my opinion.

    About banking - I do no know about deposits. We do not have such here so yes, if it is a useful feature which is essential for day-to-day banking, then yes, I take my words back on that one. In our country we can manage any financial activity bank has to offer. Be it wire transfer, bill pay automation, loan application or else.
    07-24-2017 02:00 AM
  21. mtf1380's Avatar
    I'll ask the time and someone tells me how to build a clock.

    Sent from my Galaxy S8+
    lol...I know who that guy is:)
    07-24-2017 06:35 AM
  22. jmshub's Avatar
    @fatclue_98 Certainly I am upset. I also am wishing MS would take a good position in mobile market and made it their priority as they did with Windows or Office in general. And, regrettably, I do admit people do want to have everything up-to-date irrelevant of whether they need it or not. As I have mentioned, for some reason we do not see too many complaints when we see iOS release say 9.0, and oh look, iPhone 4 is no longer supported. If I recall, the life cycle from iOS 9 to 10 was about a year if not less.The good thing is (which I wow to apple), apps that used to work on previous versions of iOS continue to work on later releases of the OS (at least that is what I have heard from a few friends of mine owning iPhone. However, truth be told, they swapped to newer model once they could so I can't objectively say whether their statement was due to new phone or their own impression :)). Can't say the same about Android or WM.
    Microsoft pushed Windows Phone as a priority in their WP7-8 era. They spent billions trying to make Windows Phone a viable contender to iOS and Android. It wasn't the fact that they didn't try, the market just didn't take to the phones. It also showed that to a large degree, the people writing apps are controlling the destiny of any would-be mobile platform. A platform will live or die by the availability of apps, and even a company as large as Microsoft couldn't throw enough money at some app developers to get their apps on Windows/WP.

    I still carry my Lumia day to day, but it's hard to see any way that the platform will ever be relevant in the market, despite anything any actions MSFT could take.
    07-24-2017 08:37 AM
  23. kaktus1389's Avatar
    It wasn't the fact that they didn't try, the market just didn't take to the phones.
    The market share is not all about the market share in the US, or is it though? In my country I still see Windows phones quite often, even though they used to be more popular in the 8.1 era.

    A few weeks ago when I received a fast-delivery parcel from the national post service I was asked to sign the confirmation on a 930. Just my 2 cents.

    Other than that I can somewhat understand OP's frustration, but some people take it personally since they've invested in the platform and paid for flagship phones for a reason (big promises for Continuum upgrades), not to mention that they (including me) lobbied for Windows phones in their families. I had 2 relatives asking me why their Skype isn't working on their unsupported Windows Phone 8.1 phones. I ended up offline upgrading one of those phones to Treshold 1, still need to push it to RS2. And oh, 80% of Windows phones ran Windows Phone 8.1 that is now unsupported.

    At this time, I wouldn't suggest anyone buying a Windows phone either except if they got a really good deal or understood exactly what the situation is like with apps and the feature2 thing. Especially if the phone they would be looking to buy would cost more than 250€. While I still like my 950, I somewhat regret buying it since I pushed back my due to upgrade for about a year (gotta stick with it until 2018). I had big hopes for Continuum improvements and I got it for a reasonable price. Oh well, I hope MS does push UWP in the following months since the majority of banking (and other) apps are written for iOS and Android only, even though there are PC/tablet users who would prefer to use UWP apps instead of a website.

    But we're Windows phone users, we all say we don't need apps until we try Android or iOS.
    techiez and Laura Knotek like this.
    07-24-2017 04:53 PM
  24. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The market share is not all about the market share in the US, or is it though? In my country I still see Windows phones quite often, even though they used to be more popular in the 8.1 era.

    A few weeks ago when I received a fast-delivery parcel from the national post service I was asked to sign the confirmation on a 930. Just my 2 cents.

    Other than that I can somewhat understand OP's frustration, but some people take it personally since they've invested in the platform and paid for flagship phones for a reason (big promises for Continuum upgrades), not to mention that they (including me) lobbied for Windows phones in their families. I had 2 relatives asking me why their Skype isn't working on their unsupported Windows Phone 8.1 phones. I ended up offline upgrading one of those phones to Treshold 1, still need to push it to RS2. And oh, 80% of Windows phones ran Windows Phone 8.1 that is now unsupported.

    At this time, I wouldn't suggest anyone buying a Windows phone either except if they got a really good deal or understood exactly what the situation is like with apps and the feature2 thing. Especially if the phone they would be looking to buy would cost more than 250€. While I still like my 950, I somewhat regret buying it since I pushed back my due to upgrade for about a year (gotta stick with it until 2018). I had big hopes for Continuum improvements and I got it for a reasonable price. Oh well, I hope MS does push UWP in the following months since the majority of banking (and other) apps are written for iOS and Android only, even though there are PC/tablet users who would prefer to use UWP apps instead of a website.

    But we're Windows phone users, we all say we don't need apps until we try Android or iOS.
    It's not so much that we don't need apps, it's that some of us don't use as many or just don't need them. For example, I don't have any Twitter, Snapchat, WhatsApp or Instagram accounts. I don't deposit checks through an app, I've never used Uber and I use plastic for purchases 95% of the time and cash the other 5%. I do miss eBay, PayPal and BBM - those are my most longed for apps to return (yeah, right).

    I'm sure there are many like me that can get by with little to no issues. But to totally brush off Android or iOS is pretty ignant.

    Sent from my Acer Liquid Jade Primo on mTalk
    Nate W, Laura Knotek and Guytronic like this.
    07-24-2017 08:57 PM

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