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05-29-2016 12:44 PM
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  1. misterff1's Avatar
    Wowowow slow down people! First of all, by this you assume that there is even a surface phone in the making...did ms EVER mention that? No, media did. Sure, panos is working on something in the mobile segment, but assuming its a surface phone is exactly that and nothing more: assuming.

    Secondly....no that was all really. This whole threat is based on speculation
    bromoid likes this.
    02-22-2016 02:56 AM
  2. etphoto's Avatar
    Wowowow slow down people! First of all, by this you assume that there is even a surface phone in the making...did ms EVER mention that? No, media did. Sure, panos is working on something in the mobile segment, but assuming its a surface phone is exactly that and nothing more: assuming.

    Secondly....no that was all really. This whole threat is based on speculation

    Again, not giving a link (Click bait) but Thurrott just released an article giving his view how the Surface Phone can still makes sense post HP Elite. The article outlines a discussion he had with Daniel Rubino on the subject.

    Sent from my Surface 3
    ven07 and Player Piano like this.
    02-22-2016 06:37 AM
  3. VetDuarte's Avatar
    Agreed, I was thinking the same thing.. The app gap, will be present and people will, as usual, nitpick
    You don't need the app gap to ruin it.
    How come a business oriented phone BE business oriented when the OS itself won't show more than two weeks each direction?
    MS is ruining it's mobile's business. The app gap is just a consequence.
    02-22-2016 06:52 AM
  4. Krystianpants's Avatar
    The phone isn't due till around july which coincides with MS releasing redstone. So my guess is the phone may be much better than what they have showing now. The laptop dock is prototype right now but it's a great way to change the playing field. The laptop is all battery and screen and it's light. It's likely going to be sold only with the dock and the laptop dock itself may be an extra accessory. Businesses may get bundles with certain software and the laptop dock if they choose to, etc.. The laptop dock will obviously be cheaper than a laptop due to not having any of the cpu components or anything expensive. If it uses miracast and not anything proprietary any phone compatible with continuum may be able to get it. This gives them extra sales in this region as well if it's sold separately. If it is proprietary MS could even put it in the next build so all phones capable can connect. And it would be neat if it can be paired with the dock so that when you open it up it automatically connects so you don't even have to take your phone out of your pocket. Maybe it can use a password or phone pin. Don't think it would have iris build in as it would increase the cost. But it's really neat no doubt.

    We really don't know how it will be priced.

    As far as the surface phone MS said they don't want to produce phones any more which is why they are going to have HTC create it for them. Job postings point towards this.

    It would be funny if Belfiore really wasn't on vacation but just a PR stunt while he goes to Asia to work on something secret. But that's just a conspiracy theory ;)

    I don't see MS really releasing anything unless it really changes the game. We know the hp elite is part of that. HP is just getting a head start in the game. Though I must say I'm very impressed with the design and the work they did with it. HP has really gone premium these days. Even their 2-in-1 hybrids this year look phenomenal.

    I think MS and Intel are really shooting to get x64 on mobile. But Ms isn't waiting for it to become a reality that quickly so it's enhancing the OS to possibly be able to run these apps on the arm64 chips. Curious what the next redstone build brings which I'm thinking will happen once everything cools down after MWC.
    ven07 and aximtreo like this.
    02-22-2016 09:41 AM
  5. rhapdog's Avatar
    I think a phone like this or others will definitely make their way to consumers at some point. The usage case is compelling. You could sell a bundle with the dock, keyboard, mouse, LCD monitor, and the mobile extender for a decent price as a complete computing package. For most people, it'd cover every single one of their needs.

    The app gap still remains a problem. That would be the only thing that would prevent this from being a fantastic overall device for college or even high school.
    Agreed, I was thinking the same thing.. The app gap, will be present and people will, as usual, nitpick
    I remember when the 950 & 950XL were released. I had a talk with some people who were either die-hard Android or iPhone fanatics and showed them some video of it in action using Continuum. Told them the specs, showed them sample photos and video, and they were saying they had to have one. Then I told them about the app gap, and how their bank may not have an app, there's no snapchat, etc, etc. Not a one of them cared about the app gap. They said things like, "I can do without a few apps if I can have that kind of productivity" or, "I'd give up some apps for a camera like that" or, "With something like this on the market, and it being able to run a Universal Windows 10 app, I'll bet the apps start coming soon anyway. A device like that changes everything."

    Okay, if I met people who were willing to abandon their phone of choice, including the apps, just to get the productivity, then I'm betting that while it may be ignored by certain teenagers who think they need snapchat, I think the Elite X3 is going to get the attention of some people. Whether or not it boosts W10M anytime soon, it will begin to change the mindset of the public of what a smartphone SHOULD be and should be able to do. It will begin to change the category mindset and that mindset will begin to evolve into "what comes after the smartphone."

    The biggest obstacle will be over "people don't want to learn something new." However, as more Enterprise adopts Windows 10, then more people will be comfortable over time with Windows 10, and Windows 10 Mobile will be something that can "continue that same user experience" as they go mobile, instead of having one way of doing things on a PC and another on the phone. THAT will make the biggest difference down the road.

    Well, well well. Is this the kind of news a windows phone fan like myself was looking out for?
    I guess so. This is what Nadella wanted OEMs to do. He is not making a phone just for the sake of it, and did not want OEMs doing that either. This phone changes the dynamics of the game.
    As far as pricing goes, I would not sweat on it one bit. If it is for the Enterprise users, the order quantity will be in 100s if not 1000s of these units. On top of the hardware cost, there will be AMCs, enterprise security, Mobile Device management, managed security, application management et. all. In short it will be a full bouquet of product and services. HP will go in a say, if you don't need very high end processing (which most organizations don't need for majority of their employees anyway), do not buy an expensive laptop. Buy this phone and ditch your blackberries (if you still are stuck with them), iPhones or Android phones. Also ditch your tablets and laptops. Get this device and its accessories and your employees are good to go. It does not matter if they are in office, on the road, on a plane, at client's location or even somewhere in Alaska or Antarctica. They will have their PC in their pockets. Wherever they can connect to a LTE/wi-fi/Ethernet, they will have all your files, apps and anything else they may need on their palms. Plus it is the only point of use, so you need to secure just one device. That is indeed a very compelling sales pitch for today's enterprise.
    I can already see some of HPs closest competitors, buying such devices for HP/Microsoft as this pitch is going to be increasingly used in enterprise space going forward.
    Only secure one device. Yep. Couldn't have said it better myself. No more having to secure a phone, tablet, laptop, and a desktop. Just secure the phone. Everything else is just an input/output device for the ONE device. The Mobile Extender is just a screen/keyboard with ports and a battery. It's not a laptop or computer that needs to have the OS locked down and secured.

    The Mobile Extender, cradle (along with monitor, keyboard, and mouse for the office cubicle), and phone, will be cheaper than purchasing a desktop, laptop, and phone for the end user, because there's only one device with a processor, RAM, storage, etc. Enterprise LOVES being able to save money.

    Where else, besides cost of devices will the Enterprise customer save money? On IT hours. The IT department only has to secure ONE device per employee. Only has to maintain backups of ONE device. Laptops go bad sometimes. They are prone to breakdowns because of all the parts inside. Desktop computers can break down. Hard drives fail, etc. With the Elite, you don't have a Desktop. You have a cradle, monitor, mouse, and keyboard. How often does a keyboard break down? How often does a mouse break (when you didn't get mad and throw it)? How often does a monitor stop working? The life cycle of these is much, much longer than the CPU, RAM, HDD, etc. in a desktop or laptop. That means, apart from dropping the Mobile Extender and breaking the screen, all these devices will last much longer than the phone device. That means, every couple of years or so, you only have to upgrade the PHONE to have an upgrade of ALL these devices. THAT my friend, is a compelling argument. You're going to upgrade the phone every 2 or 3 years anyway, why not upgrade all at once for the same price? You already own the Mobile Extender and Cradle, and they will still continue to work with an upgrade. Really cool.
    ven07, Kavu2, RumoredNow and 4 others like this.
    02-22-2016 09:42 AM
  6. Krystianpants's Avatar
    The biggest obstacle will be over "people don't want to learn something new.
    .

    It doesn't have to be hard. MS just has to do more help bubbles like the Navbar bubble that comes up and tells users how to use it. They could have it for action center, tile resizing/pinning, every new encounter a customer comes across. I keep telling them to do this on feedback but it's not popular. It makes so much sense though because the user becomes familiar with it. And even if they don't use these features they know because of the bubble and can tell people through word of mouth what it can do if someone is looking for a particular feature. These are simple things MS can do to make it easier to use but they don't.

    There are many things in windows 10 mobile that people didn't know after even using for a long time. Like holding action button to go to the appropriate setting, etc. They just throw you in and expect people to know when they are not used to it.
    rhapdog, aximtreo and JohnStrk like this.
    02-22-2016 09:53 AM
  7. ven07's Avatar
    who were either die-hard Android or iPhone fanatics and showed them some video of it in action using Continuum. Told them the specs, showed them sample photos and video, and they were saying they had to have one. Then I told them about the app gap, and how their bank may not have an app, there's no snapchat, etc, etc. Not a one of them cared about the app gap.
    I did do the very same thing pre-launch and everybody wanted the abilities for, but the story is kind of different on my end. Once I told them about the fact that it will only be limited to WP and that there is an app gap they weren't as excited anymore. My friends and colleagues range from 20-35 so that might be the difference?

    THAT my friend, is a compelling argument. You're going to upgrade the phone every 2 or 3 years anyway, why not upgrade all at once for the same price? You already own the Mobile Extender and Cradle, and they will still continue to work with an upgrade
    It is a compelling argument indeed
    rhapdog and aximtreo like this.
    02-22-2016 09:59 AM
  8. ven07's Avatar
    As far as the surface phone MS said they don't want to produce phones any more which is why they are going to have HTC create it for them. Job postings point towards this.
    I didn't know that so thanks!

    It would be funny if Belfiore really wasn't on vacation but just a PR stunt while he goes to Asia to work on something secret. But that's just a conspiracy theory ;)
    Well they could still say he worked on it while still on the cruise.. Skype?

    Though I must say I'm very impressed with the design and the work they did with it. HP has really gone premium these days
    Agreed
    rhapdog and aximtreo like this.
    02-22-2016 10:02 AM
  9. Kavu2's Avatar
    Originally posted by hermanlive
    "This is what Nadella wanted OEMs to do. He is not making a phone just for the sake of it, and did not want OEMs doing that either.

    Get this device and its accessories and your employees are good to go. It does not matter if they are in office, on the road, on a plane, at client's location...Plus it is the only point of use, so you need to secure just one device. That is indeed a very compelling sales pitch for today's enterprise".
    Originally posted by Rhapdog
    "...people don't want to learn something new.

    Only secure one device. Yep. Couldn't have said it better myself. No more having to secure a phone, tablet, laptop, and a desktop. Just secure the phone. Everything else is just an input/output device for the ONE device. The Mobile Extender is just a screen/keyboard with ports and a battery. It's not a laptop or computer that needs to have the OS locked down and secured.

    The Mobile Extender, cradle (along with monitor, keyboard, and mouse for the office cubicle), and phone, will be cheaper than purchasing a desktop, laptop, and phone for the end user, because there's only one device with a processor, RAM, storage, etc. Enterprise LOVES being able to save money.

    Where else, besides cost of devices will the Enterprise customer save money? On IT hours. The IT department only has to secure ONE device per employee. Only has to maintain backups of ONE device.

    That means, every couple of years or so, you only have to upgrade the PHONE to have an upgrade of ALL these devices. THAT my friend, is a compelling argument. You're going to upgrade the phone every 2 or 3 years anyway, why not upgrade all at once for the same price? You already own the Mobile Extender and Cradle, and they will still continue to work with an upgrade"
    Agree. Nadella's Mission Statement for MS going forward..not making a phone just for the sake of it. Not wanting OEMs doing that either. The stated mission of MS is show the way(ie delegate) and lead by example if necessary(create when necessary...to show an example). So to me that means if an OEM creates the MS vision, then there is no need for MS to duplicate the effort. It's win-win, the OEMs prosper and MS fulfills it's vision, leaving it r&d time and resources to create and fulfill the next vision. This is how Apple has done so well. You leap-frog new concepts.

    'People don't want to learn something new'...the mantra that stymies creativity everywhere. It's true though and programmed into user DNA. So how do you deal with it?....you manipulate it through ownership...ie you make the current system work with new concepts/processes. In the case of business IT, it might be bringing those legacy XP apps (that people won't let go b/c they don't want/have the time to learn something new) to a new access venue (Continuum/virtual desktop/VPN) and new products (Mobile Extender). User: "Oh ok, it works...that's just what I need, don't change it". ITdept: "Seamless, simple and secure AND next upgrade cycle is a piece of cake since there is only one system to upgrade...not a plethora of piecemeal subsystems to put together in a presentation package". Another win-win, user continues working unabated, IT has even less to maintain. The beat goes on.

    And guess who the business exec asks for recommendations for new IT products to fulfill a resource upgrade....the IT dept. And the IT dept parameters?...seamless, simplicity and security. And if you can satisify the user, the exec(and the budget director by default), the IT dept with one product to buy, one product to maintain, one product to secure...and it works seamlessly, is simple and secure...then you have the trifecta, win-win-win....ie HP Elite X3
    02-22-2016 11:14 AM
  10. ven07's Avatar
    Wowowow slow down people! First of all, by this you assume that there is even a surface phone in the making...did ms EVER mention that? No, media did. Sure, panos is working on something in the mobile segment, but assuming its a surface phone is exactly that and nothing more: assuming.

    Secondly....no that was all really. This whole threat is based on speculation
    Lol we know it's coming, but it could also be cancelled somewhere along the lines. My bet is still on a Q4 release so that the new phones have some breathing room
    aximtreo likes this.
    02-22-2016 11:37 AM
  11. Player Piano's Avatar
    Give me either this HP, or the Surface Phone, and call me happy. I am perfectly content with my L950 though I do wish the random reboots would go away.
    ven07 likes this.
    02-22-2016 04:08 PM
  12. three_thoughts's Avatar
    Looks good. Screen is too big for my personal preference though. Hoping for a 5 inch flagship from HTC if MS isn't going to release one any time soon
    ven07 and Player Piano like this.
    02-22-2016 04:13 PM
  13. Jack Neill's Avatar
    Imagine that phone with a updated 40=MP Pure View camera and 128 storage and SD slot... A guy can dream right?
    02-22-2016 06:52 PM
  14. TechFreak1's Avatar
    I think the Surface Phone was (I say was just in case things change last minute...) / is going to be an aspirational device just like the Surface tablets.

    However HP has blown the lid off with the Elite X3 and the bar is pretty darn high, the fact that it includes a finger print scanner could potential mean we could see a mobile payment system similar to Apple Pay with the secure element on the phone and the finger print scanner is used for authentication.

    It may it be unwieldy for those with small hands or stubby fingers given the Elite X3 is 6" in size. Although from several hands on videos it doesn't look that unwieldy at all, unless everyone is using some sort of reality distortion field / fancy camera tricks .
    Guytronic, ven07 and aximtreo like this.
    02-22-2016 07:45 PM
  15. ArtificiallyYours's Avatar
    I don't see why HP Releasing a Win10 Mobile handset would throttle the market to less options?
    02-22-2016 09:39 PM
  16. Luuthian's Avatar
    There's still two major hurdles this phone will face regardless of how well it's priced or the specs sheet: No Google apps and no legacy support outside of virtualization (which HP will control).

    The lack of Google apps will keep this out of the standard consumer's mind and the lack of ability to actually be a real PC is going to harm it's potential for both business and home consumer.

    I can't blame HP for working with what's available (you'd probably need a fan which is a no no) but the fact this lacks something like an Intel Core M chip keeps it from being special. Intel's new portable USB computers have more use.

    I fear a large uphill battle for this device no matter what. Microsoft needs to find way to jump from Continuum to full blown computer in the pocket because you can't claim a device is a portable computer until it is. Right now, it 100% is not. It's a cellphone with a paltry selection of full screen apps.

    Right idea, but it's not fully realized yet and neither is this phone.
    02-23-2016 12:26 AM
  17. emigrating's Avatar
    No Google apps and no legacy support outside of virtualization (which HP will control).
    Who cares about Googe apps any more? Which of their services do you rely on so much that you'd _need_ the app? I can see the general app gap being a problem (for consumers - for enterprise, not really as they provide their own software), but I can't think on one single Google service that would be a deal-breaker for most people (and remember, this device is aimed at businesses anyhow).As for legacy support, not really something the average consumer cares about, and for businesses, well, HP provides a [locked down] solution - but you also have RemoteApp support which you can roll out on your own datacenter (or Azure).
    02-23-2016 12:35 AM
  18. techiez's Avatar
    So HP Elite X3 went up today and boy they didn't disappoint, but looking at the phone/how it's presented and what it can do, you can say one thing: this phone is geared towards businesses. Obviously this won't stop the enthusiasts from getting one, but what about out average Joe?

    On top of that the phone or phablet will be bundled. So the price will be sth, but I'm not here to talk about the price.

    So moving on, we know or at least we think we know that a Surface Phone or at least a phone that is being worked on by the Surface team might be launching sometime this year (4th quarter?). However according to Daniel R. that phone was/is also going to be presented in such a way that it would seem fitting for businesses.

    So two business phones in one year? is that even going to happen? By doing that, won't MS basically be going back on the whole "we will be pulling ourselves out of the manufacturing game somewhat"..

    What do ya think?
    Surface phone is dependent on Intel's chip readiness, so I'm sure it will be delayed.
    ven07 likes this.
    02-23-2016 12:56 AM
  19. Tips_y's Avatar
    I don't believe the Elite 3X will provide an impetus for consumer OEMs like Samsung, LG, HTC, Sony, to produce a W10 device since the 3X is basically geared towards business and productivity. Maybe it might inspire the likes of Dell but not the consumer OEMs. I guess this is where the "Surface Phone" can come in and fill up the space as W10 reference design phone for the general consuming public. This reference phone can then provide inspiration for the likes of Samsung, LG, HTC and the rest. All the reference Surface Phone needs to do is equal the Elite 3X in specs, add a great PureView Camera, add-ons like glance screen etc., a design inspired by the body of the 650, and you'll have a killer phone for the consuming public.
    Last edited by Tips_y; 02-23-2016 at 09:45 AM.
    ven07 likes this.
    02-23-2016 09:34 AM
  20. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Surface phone is dependent on Intel's chip readiness, so I'm sure it will be delayed.
    In theory a dock could use an intel chip if windows 10 was designed to do so. It's just the cost of the dock would likely skyrocket as a result.

    It's like the surfacebook where you have one chipset being used when undocked and both when docked. Ms won't want people running w32 apps directly on the phone. It will likely only be available through continuum.

    The virtualization solution however seems more likely and it's what HP is doing. However, it was stated windows mobile doesn't support it yet and will in a future version.

    HP Workspace will use Citrix app-virtualization or Azure RemoteApp to deliver these x86 apps. HP Workspace is not ready for Windows 10 Mobile, but a software update planned in a future release will enable it. Also, HP Workspace Subscription is required to access this service.
    Think about it, if these phones start running w32 apps then there's no reason to publish apps into the windows store. MS is really trying to push the store and have people migrate apps over. So having only some apps available that are important to enterprise is way different than having all consumer apps available.

    And even if they had an intel chip on the phones it doesn't mean they will run these apps as the api may not be included in the mobile os version. Virtualization is a means to offer solutions while newer ones are being built. So app developers may be able to get their apps on a virtualization solution with the promise that they will move over to UWP within a time frame. And if that time frame is not met they may have to pay to keep it virtualized.

    There's a lot of scenarios that can pan out. But I just do not see an intel based phone running w32 apps. It will however make it easy for game developers and we know games are big.
    ven07 and aximtreo like this.
    02-23-2016 09:37 AM
  21. v535's Avatar
    I think MS is letting to increase their market share and increase adoption of w10m by OEMs.
    Last edited by v535; 02-23-2016 at 10:14 AM. Reason: grammatical error
    02-23-2016 10:14 AM
  22. romo11's Avatar
    yes, there are a lot scenarios. I would like a standard Intel tablet hardware but with 5,5 mobile box, running on Win10 desktop version, in mobile possible to run only modern apps, when continuum dock is connected to use classic desktop on the second display
    02-23-2016 10:44 AM
  23. CSJr1's Avatar
    No, the HP Workspace will be a special app store ran by HP that will cater to enterprise level apps. At least initially, I would think that if this takes off Microsoft could license the tech for the Windows store or HP could offer a consumer version. I would guess however the first choice since HP really would rather focus on enterprise as evidenced by the recent split of the company.
    I really do not think that the HP Workstation will go to consumers as a license/subscription. This will require payment to HP from consumers themselves or Microsoft. What would be the purpose? So a consumer to pay $5 dollars a month to use some business x86 app that isn't yet on UWP, like Visual Studio.. This stop gap solution is not meant for the consumer. Personally, If I really wanted an X86 app that bad with Windows Mobile on Continuum, I would use Remote Desktop to my full tower computer and run Steam or something like that and save on the reoccurring subscription charge.
    Last edited by CSJr1; 02-23-2016 at 11:11 AM.
    02-23-2016 10:59 AM
  24. Gregory Newman's Avatar
    I think Microsoft devices VP Mr Panay and his teams have seen how the MS LUMIa 550, 950 & 950 XL phone case designs and soft ware problems made these devices not look as good as they wanted and will make sure these problems are corrected.. Microsoft has never admitted it was ever working on a "Surface" smart phone but is making many Proto type smart phone devices in their Labs. Microsoft needs to have a good reputation in it's smart phone devices so I expect there will be a better Windows 10 Mobile OS smart phone coming from them that will equal or exceed the HP Elite x3 which Microsoft is glad to see in the market place. The Intel mobile CPU "Surface" smart phone that can run full Desktop PC Programs, Windows 10 Desktop store Apps and the New MS "Universal Apps is the smart phone of choice among Windows smart phone Fans. It also the Only Microsoft smart Phone that will get some Android and Apple iphone users to buy a Windows smart phone.
    02-23-2016 11:14 AM
  25. CSJr1's Avatar
    As far as the Surface Phone, I wouldn't proceed with it if I were Microsoft. If Microsoft proceeds, with the Surface Phone, it would create competition with the Elite X3 in the business area, depleting sales of the Elite X3. I would think Microsoft would want to support HP and not hamper their vision. They can afford to compete with the Surface Book because the laptop space is sound, not so for the phone space.

    If anything comes of the Surface Phone, I would recommend that Microsoft brands a version of the HP Elite X3 as the Surface Phone. The production pipe will be already hot, you get your Surface Phone and HP gets to make it with near identical features but with a different skin.
    Last edited by CSJr1; 02-24-2016 at 02:23 PM.
    aximtreo likes this.
    02-23-2016 11:17 AM
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