HP Elite X3 Business phone = No Surface Phone?

[Luuthian]

There's still two major hurdles this phone will face regardless of how well it's priced or the specs sheet: No Google apps and no legacy support outside of virtualization (which HP will control).

The lack of Google apps will keep this out of the standard consumer's mind and the lack of ability to actually be a real PC is going to harm it's potential for both business and home consumer.

I can't blame HP for working with what's available (you'd probably need a fan which is a no no) but the fact this lacks something like an Intel Core M chip keeps it from being special. Intel's new portable USB computers have more use.

I fear a large uphill battle for this device no matter what. Microsoft needs to find way to jump from Continuum to full blown computer in the pocket because you can't claim a device is a portable computer until it is. Right now, it 100% is not. It's a cellphone with a paltry selection of full screen apps.

Right idea, but it's not fully realized yet and neither is this phone.

 

[emigrating]

No Google apps and no legacy support outside of virtualization (which HP will control).

Who cares about Googe apps any more? Which of their services do you rely on so much that you'd _need_ the app? I can see the general app gap being a problem (for consumers - for enterprise, not really as they provide their own software), but I can't think on one single Google service that would be a deal-breaker for most people (and remember, this device is aimed at businesses anyhow).As for legacy support, not really something the average consumer cares about, and for businesses, well, HP provides a [locked down] solution - but you also have RemoteApp support which you can roll out on your own datacenter (or Azure).

 

[techiez]

So HP Elite X3 went up today and boy they didn't disappoint, but looking at the phone/how it's presented and what it can do, you can say one thing: this phone is geared towards businesses. Obviously this won't stop the enthusiasts from getting one, but what about out average Joe?

On top of that the phone or phablet will be bundled. So the price will be sth, but I'm not here to talk about the price.

So moving on, we know or at least we think we know that a Surface Phone or at least a phone that is being worked on by the Surface team might be launching sometime this year (4th quarter?). However according to Daniel R. that phone was/is also going to be presented in such a way that it would seem fitting for businesses.

So two business phones in one year? is that even going to happen? By doing that, won't MS basically be going back on the whole "we will be pulling ourselves out of the manufacturing game somewhat"..

What do ya think?

Surface phone is dependent on Intel's chip readiness, so I'm sure it will be delayed.

 

[Tips_y]

I don't believe the Elite 3X will provide an impetus for consumer OEMs like Samsung, LG, HTC, Sony, to produce a W10 device since the 3X is basically geared towards business and productivity. Maybe it might inspire the likes of Dell but not the consumer OEMs. I guess this is where the "Surface Phone" can come in and fill up the space as W10 reference design phone for the general consuming public. This reference phone can then provide inspiration for the likes of Samsung, LG, HTC and the rest. All the reference Surface Phone needs to do is equal the Elite 3X in specs, add a great PureView Camera, add-ons like glance screen etc., a design inspired by the body of the 650, and you'll have a killer phone for the consuming public.

 

[Krystianpants]

Surface phone is dependent on Intel's chip readiness, so I'm sure it will be delayed.

In theory a dock could use an intel chip if windows 10 was designed to do so. It's just the cost of the dock would likely skyrocket as a result.

It's like the surfacebook where you have one chipset being used when undocked and both when docked. Ms won't want people running w32 apps directly on the phone. It will likely only be available through continuum.

The virtualization solution however seems more likely and it's what HP is doing. However, it was stated windows mobile doesn't support it yet and will in a future version.

HP Workspace will use Citrix app-virtualization or Azure RemoteApp to deliver these x86 apps. HP Workspace is not ready for Windows 10 Mobile, but a software update planned in a future release will enable it. Also, HP Workspace Subscription is required to access this service.

Think about it, if these phones start running w32 apps then there's no reason to publish apps into the windows store. MS is really trying to push the store and have people migrate apps over. So having only some apps available that are important to enterprise is way different than having all consumer apps available.

And even if they had an intel chip on the phones it doesn't mean they will run these apps as the api may not be included in the mobile os version. Virtualization is a means to offer solutions while newer ones are being built. So app developers may be able to get their apps on a virtualization solution with the promise that they will move over to UWP within a time frame. And if that time frame is not met they may have to pay to keep it virtualized.

There's a lot of scenarios that can pan out. But I just do not see an intel based phone running w32 apps. It will however make it easy for game developers and we know games are big.

 

[v535]

I think MS is letting to increase their market share and increase adoption of w10m by OEMs.

 

[romo11]

yes, there are a lot scenarios. I would like a standard Intel tablet hardware but with 5,5 mobile box, running on Win10 desktop version, in mobile possible to run only modern apps, when continuum dock is connected to use classic desktop on the second display

 

[CSJr1]

No, the HP Workspace will be a special app store ran by HP that will cater to enterprise level apps. At least initially, I would think that if this takes off Microsoft could license the tech for the Windows store or HP could offer a consumer version. I would guess however the first choice since HP really would rather focus on enterprise as evidenced by the recent split of the company.

I really do not think that the HP Workstation will go to consumers as a license/subscription. This will require payment to HP from consumers themselves or Microsoft. What would be the purpose? So a consumer to pay $5 dollars a month to use some business x86 app that isn't yet on UWP, like Visual Studio.. This stop gap solution is not meant for the consumer. Personally, If I really wanted an X86 app that bad with Windows Mobile on Continuum, I would use Remote Desktop to my full tower computer and run Steam or something like that and save on the reoccurring subscription charge.

 

[Gregory Newman]

I think Microsoft devices VP Mr Panay and his teams have seen how the MS LUMIa 550, 950 & 950 XL phone case designs and soft ware problems made these devices not look as good as they wanted and will make sure these problems are corrected.. Microsoft has never admitted it was ever working on a "Surface" smart phone but is making many Proto type smart phone devices in their Labs. Microsoft needs to have a good reputation in it's smart phone devices so I expect there will be a better Windows 10 Mobile OS smart phone coming from them that will equal or exceed the HP Elite x3 which Microsoft is glad to see in the market place. The Intel mobile CPU "Surface" smart phone that can run full Desktop PC Programs, Windows 10 Desktop store Apps and the New MS "Universal Apps is the smart phone of choice among Windows smart phone Fans. It also the Only Microsoft smart Phone that will get some Android and Apple iphone users to buy a Windows smart phone.

 

[CSJr1]

As far as the Surface Phone, I wouldn't proceed with it if I were Microsoft. If Microsoft proceeds, with the Surface Phone, it would create competition with the Elite X3 in the business area, depleting sales of the Elite X3. I would think Microsoft would want to support HP and not hamper their vision. They can afford to compete with the Surface Book because the laptop space is sound, not so for the phone space.

If anything comes of the Surface Phone, I would recommend that Microsoft brands a version of the HP Elite X3 as the Surface Phone. The production pipe will be already hot, you get your Surface Phone and HP gets to make it with near identical features but with a different skin.

 

[donkiluminate]

Is it too much to hope for another Touchpad-esque fire sale? (Smiley face added so people know that joking)

 

[Gregory Newman]

Microsoft does have a Crisis in it sales Department because they made the huge Mistake of offering Their sole flagship smart phones the MS Lumia 950 and 950XL only to their FAVORITE USA cell phone Carrier. Folks Apple, Samsung, Sony, LG,and HTC and others will not execute such a FAILED policy. In Business you have have your product in as many places as possible to get Customers to buy them. There were Verizon, T-mobile and even some Sprint Microsoft windows smart phones buyers left Out in the cold they wanted to buy a Flagship Microsoft smart phone that worked on their network. MS VP Mr Panay and his team have to be like Apple and the big Android smart phone sellers and make USA Multi Carrier bound Flagship Windows 10 mobile smart phones so as many American customers as possible can buy it from the USA carrier they use. Surely Microsoft can design and make ONE model Flagship Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile smart that ALL USA Carriers SELL..

 

[Sunstorming]

Tbh I'd like to Sony give it a go :grincry:

Why? So it can fail? The only thing Sony has going for it these days is the PS4. It's other departments and what not have been decimated.

 

[ven07]

As far as the Surface Phone, I wouldn't proceed with it if I were Microsoft. If Microsoft proceeds, with the Surface Phone, it would create competition with the Elite X3 in the business area, depleting sales of the Elite X3. I would think Microsoft would want to support HP and not hamper their vision. They can afford to do compete with the Surface Book because the laptop space is sound, not so for the phone space.

If anything comes of the Surface Phone, I would recommend that Microsoft brands a version of the HP Elite X3 as the Surface Phone. The production pipe will be already hot, you get your Surface Phone and HP gets to make it with near identical features but with a different skin.

As @etphoto said, there is a discussion on the Thurott website explaining why the SP could still make sense. However I do understand what you're saying and that was the reason for starting this thread.

I would still like to see the surface phone tho which is why I'm betting on a Q4 release. Gives the others enough time to get their things going, gives the 550/650 and 950's enough time to sell a bit. The SP won't be the savior of this platform lol, but like techfreak1 said, the bar has been set pretty darn high and MS can either go over it or under it...

If anything I would say Continuum/docks are the topics keeping WP and the UWP in the news

 

[waazzupppp]

I'm going here... The Surface Phone will be the first Lumia that runs X86 programs... Yes, there we go. It will be announced early next year and virtually be the Surface Pro with a 5-6" display and specs to match. It will also run $1000 unlocked to work with GSM carriers (and hopefully Verizon in the US) with a special enterprise edition for Sprint (they have a large amount of government contracts here)...

I'm going with a solid machined aluminum body, 5.7" 4k display, 20MP camera/scanner with built in PDF/DOC converter, 8MP front for video calling, 4GB of RAM and 128GB of storage, 2TB SD card and OTG support, as well as a 4000mAh battery for longer life. For those that think this is impossible, remember the 8" Windows 10 Tabs that already have most of this built in that aren't much bigger than a phablet like this. The kicker to it all, is that it will not run Windows 10 Mobile - it will be a full Windows 10 device running tablet mode for mobiles.

There, I said it... Not this year, but it will be worth the wait! I hope...

 

[Alain_A]

I'm going here... The Surface Phone will be the first Lumia that runs X86 programs... Yes, there we go. It will be announced early next year and virtually be the Surface Pro with a 5-6" display and specs to match. It will also run $1000 unlocked to work with GSM carriers (and hopefully Verizon in the US) with a special enterprise edition for Sprint (they have a large amount of government contracts here)...

I'm going with a solid machined aluminum body, 5.7" 4k display, 20MP camera/scanner with built in PDF/DOC converter, 8MP front for video calling, 4GB of RAM and 128GB of storage, 2TB SD card and OTG support, as well as a 4000mAh battery for longer life. For those that think this is impossible, remember the 8" Windows 10 Tabs that already have most of this built in that aren't much bigger than a phablet like this. The kicker to it all, is that it will not run Windows 10 Mobile - it will be a full Windows 10 device running tablet mode for mobiles.

There, I said it... Not this year, but it will be worth the wait! I hope...

JB said it will more expensive than the IPhone

 

[Axeelant]

Microsoft does have a Crisis in it sales Department because they made the huge Mistake of offering Their sole flagship smart phones the MS Lumia 950 and 950XL only to their FAVORITE USA cell phone Carrier. Folks Apple, Samsung, Sony, LG,and HTC and others will not execute such a FAILED policy. In Business you have have your product in as many places as possible to get Customers to buy them. There were Verizon, T-mobile and even some Sprint Microsoft windows smart phones buyers left Out in the cold they wanted to buy a Flagship Microsoft smart phone that worked on their network. MS VP Mr Panay and his team have to be like Apple and the big Android smart phone sellers and make USA Multi Carrier bound Flagship Windows 10 mobile smart phones so as many American customers as possible can buy it from the USA carrier they use. Surely Microsoft can design and make ONE model Flagship Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile smart that ALL USA Carriers SELL..

I agree with what you said here, but i'm not sure if you guys even realize how little effort MS makes to sell their products here in Europe! It is restricted to one carrier in the US, but here some products are not even available to buy, and you can't ever see them being advertised, with the exception of cheap, budget things (currently Lumia 550 is advertised by carriers, not by MS)

 

[ven07]

It will be announced early next year

Early next year? :/ People will prolly kill MS if they do that :winktongue:

 

[aximtreo]

Question relating to this topic and Verizon. If memory serves me correctly, Verizon will soon migrate away from CDMA to a more GSM type base. That said, all the discussion here about a specific need for the HP and MS Surface devices sort of goes away. True, the timing for Verizon to do this is critical. From my reading here and other places, Verizon has a great deal of their business tied to the Enterprise market. I can't see them holding onto CDMA any longer than necessary.

Not trying to interrupt the OP's posting but it appears to me the potential loser here would be Verizon unless they react in the next few months to open their network to the world standard and that ain't CDMA. Maybe HP and MS can now force Verizon to join the real world.

 

[Mike Bourbon]

I think the X3 with those pins is meant to be the 'brains' of other devices like barcode readers, those electronic paper pad things you sign on from messenger and delivery services. I think the Surface phone will appeal to a different audience. I just think the X3 is specific device that will run specific machinery. HP is probably making companion devices for it right now, along with other manufacturers...