08-24-2016 12:28 AM
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  1. 11B1P's Avatar
    The premium is actually a HI starting point, so the discounts look better.
    These are being manufactured / spec'd / sold to Businesses - NOT one of those Businesses will be paying &799. per.
    If I discount from $800 to $625 per, that looks good ...

    My prediction = around about Black Friday (ish), you'll be able to pick this up for $599! Even less / sooner, IF adoption doesn't materialize.
    If adoption doesn't materialize, do you want to invest in that phone?

    well lets see, its priced $100 less than the base model iPhone and the x3 is killer on specs and its the same price as the base s7 and again the x3 is killer on specs. I don't understand the whining of people when a top of the line flagship is priced accordingly. If you want a cheap phone, then buy a cheap phone.
    Because some of us realize, no matter which phone it is, S7, the XYZ phone or an iphone, some of us refuse to pay that much for a phone.

    I need to see how well the camera is before considering. As a amateur photographer, this is very important (which is why I got the 1520 in the first place).
    You should be using a camera then, instead of a phone.
    Last edited by xandros9; 07-18-2016 at 06:11 PM.
    07-18-2016 04:42 PM
  2. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I just have to nitpick a little.
    Sure, people always like to measure the amount in the glass to determine the fullness or emptiness thereof.
    07-18-2016 05:13 PM
  3. MDK22's Avatar
    If adoption doesn't materialize, do you want to invest in that phone?


    .
    IF you mean buy one, absolutely, barring any major firmware glitches ...
    looks like a very solid device, especially if I can get it cheaper than $700.
    Interested @ $500, definite buy @ $400, as I said before - barring any major issues.
    Last edited by MDK22; 07-19-2016 at 06:50 AM.
    editguy likes this.
    07-18-2016 06:28 PM
  4. Ukemochi57's Avatar
    businesses will want it since it's more secure compared with the competition and in an obtuse manner, it has less apps so less distractions
    I'm sorry but I disagree with that, I unfortunately work in corporate at our company, which is a Fortune 100, the mind set that of the corporate world which can afford to buy on a large scale are now going the route of what their people personally like more, not how secure the phone is. And all the people not in denial know it's going to be one or the other, iOS or Android.
    N_LaRUE and dellaster like this.
    07-18-2016 11:15 PM
  5. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    At your desk you have a monitor, keyboard and mouse, plus the Desk Dock. All wired in place. Leave it there. What is the cost savings of no PC or Thin Client needed?

    On the road at your hotel, at home, visiting other offices out on calls... Use the Lap Dock. No extra wires compared to a lap top. The Lap Dock has Miracast built in... Or maybe you want to go wired for a faster connection and to recharge your phone so you just plug in with a USB-C cable. It's not a lot of hassle to plug and play like that. What is the cost savings of no laptop needed?

    With a 6" WQHD screen a tablet isn't required. What cost savings there?

    Don't look at the price Joe Wantaphone pays for for this stuff off the shelf. Think about the price breaks that surely are there for bulk purchase. Look, this isn't a setup you buy into for Timmy Gopher and Billy Sweepstheplace. It's for the career types like Sally Bigwig and Steven Pennysqueezer, right?

    And with Dual SIM the chances that your employees have their work and private number on the same device increases greatly and the chance that they aren't carrying their "work phone" decreases.

    Add in Workspace support and, IMHO, HP has a well thought out offering that will find adopters in very significant numbers.
    Not to be a pain or repeat myself but I can't see a large company buying this phone in bulk. Mobility in a large company is for a relatively small amount of people compared to the rest of the staff.

    Very few people at my work have laptops, even fewer have company phones. I work for a very large company.

    So generally what's being said is this a phone with a specific type of business in mind. Mobile sales people comes to mind more than anyone else. Maybe some managers (if mobile) depending on the software that's used at the company as not everything is available for Windows Mobile 10.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    07-19-2016 01:31 AM
  6. KimRM's Avatar
    OK so in other words your statement about Continuum being workable for all enterprises is incorrect. Not all enterprises are using cloud software.

    So you over generalised but that's OK.

    There is also the issue of having Windows 10 and the latest software working with Windows 10. Something a lot of enterprises don't have.
    I said "nearly" and "most", so no, not ALL enterprises are using cloud software.
    So you just made up my statement with your own words so it could fit your opinion. Cool... but hey, that's OK.

    You say you work in a large company, and all employees don't even have laptops. Clearly your company is not an enterprise within the target group. For a large enterprise that needs to use software it is crazy to not run the software through servers or Citrix like solutions, either through their own server or Azure (cloud). The support cost of installing and maintaining local applications on each computer is massive. So for them to get a device that they can not f*ck up with adware and crap, that is secure and work great on both big monitor and small screen, and run all their software through remoteApp is a total win.
    Why you are denying this so hard must only be because you yourself don't fit in the picture.

    Cheers!
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-19-2016 04:09 AM
  7. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I said "nearly" and "most", so no, not ALL enterprises are using cloud software.
    So you just made up my statement with your own words so it could fit your opinion. Cool... but hey, that's OK.

    You say you work in a large company, and all employees don't even have laptops. Clearly your company is not an enterprise within the target group. For a large enterprise that needs to use software it is crazy to not run the software through servers or Citrix like solutions, either through their own server or Azure (cloud). The support cost of installing and maintaining local applications on each computer is massive. So for them to get a device that they can not f*ck up with adware and crap, that is secure and work great on both big monitor and small screen, and run all their software through remoteApp is a total win.
    Why you are denying this so hard must only be because you yourself don't fit in the picture.

    Cheers!
    First, sorry for misreading your statement. My mind isn't the best at the moment.

    Second I can only go by the several companies I've worked for (around 10 or so) and all of them have been typically behind the times with software and OS.

    Yes my company uses Citrix for some applications but not all and it would crash the Citrix servers if we did have all our software through that. We have some pretty hefty software and have issues as it is.

    Our company is supported by IBM for all IT services, no I'm not a fan if you're wondering. IBM locks down the system pretty well to the point of almost crippling it.

    Other companies I've worked for were not locked down as much and I can't really say where they are now as that was over 5 years ago.

    When you're working in and dealing with a large number of people, companies are a bit slow to change. When you have very large projects worth lots of money like we do, change can be a dangerous thing.

    Some companies are a bit more forward thinking but the companies I've worked for have all been very cautious and slow to upgrade.

    To give you the rundown of what I use:

    Realitively recent upgrade to Windows 7, Office 2007, Lotus Notes 8.5, other software is of various older versions.

    My PC is about 7 years old.

    Need I say more?
    07-19-2016 05:05 AM
  8. Y2HBK's Avatar
    Not to be a pain or repeat myself but I can't see a large company buying this phone in bulk. Mobility in a large company is for a relatively small amount of people compared to the rest of the staff.

    Very few people at my work have laptops, even fewer have company phones. I work for a very large company.

    So generally what's being said is this a phone with a specific type of business in mind. Mobile sales people comes to mind more than anyone else. Maybe some managers (if mobile) depending on the software that's used at the company as not everything is available for Windows Mobile 10.
    I guess it depends on what your view of large is. The company I work for has 3,500 employees and well over half of them are mobile - be it with a laptop or an iPad.

    Our biggest issue is that we are a VMWare shop. There is no UWP app for their Horizon client. We have some apps where a per-app-VPN tunnel doesn't work/isn't viable or there is no mobile variant and requires that standard desktop access.
    editguy likes this.
    07-19-2016 07:30 AM
  9. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I guess it depends on what your view of large is. The company I work for has 3,500 employees and well over half of them are mobile - be it with a laptop or an iPad.

    Our biggest issue is that we are a VMWare shop. There is no UWP app for their Horizon client. We have some apps where a per-app-VPN tunnel doesn't work/isn't viable or there is no mobile variant and requires that standard desktop access.
    I am speaking from personal experience here, I should make that a bit more clear. I don't know what all companies do or if a phone like this would be suitable for people while out.

    The large companies I have worked for and work for have staff that is largely stationary.

    As for what I consider a large company. I work for a international company. My office campus alone has over 2500 employees. That's four buildings, four floors each. Some floors are not full at the moment but may be filled in the near future.

    The project I'm on has more than 4000 people on it, spanning four continents.

    The other companies I've worked for have been of similar size and style.

    So you'll have to excuse me if my perception is a bit warped.
    Y2HBK likes this.
    07-19-2016 08:08 AM
  10. MDK22's Avatar
    I'd imagine a suitable application would be engineers (in the field), nurses, possibly teachers.
    On that last note, my daughter (teacher) brings her laptop home, periodically, BUT the bulk of her work is lightweight. The HP Elite x3 would probably fill the bill, perhaps w an add on to facilitate communication, internally (replacing phones in the classroom).
    The ability to add on (pogo pins) is the missing link, to customize the hardware with add on bits, pertinent to your use case. The device could replace a toughbook, with a suitable case & less cost.
    The add on could also be your personal add on (your sleeve, with your ID / SDcard), your info / preferences on a shared device, with security administered thru the add on.

    Just some of the use cases ... I'm sure we could figure out many more.

    It could also evolve into a big brother thing ... not that this doesn't already exist.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    07-19-2016 08:26 AM
  11. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I'd imagine a suitable application would be engineers (in the field), nurses, possibly teachers.
    On that last note, my daughter (teacher) brings her laptop home, periodically, BUT the bulk of her work is lightweight. The HP Elite x3 would probably fill the bill, perhaps w an add on to facilitate communication, internally (replacing phones in the classroom).
    The ability to add on (pogo pins) is the missing link, to customize the hardware with add on bits, pertinent to your use case. The device could replace a toughbook, with a suitable case & less cost.
    The add on could also be your personal add on (your sleeve, with your ID / SDcard), your info / preferences on a shared device, with security administered thru the add on.

    Just some of the use cases ... I'm sure we could figure out many more.

    It could also evolve into a big brother thing ... not that this doesn't already exist.
    Thing is you can get a laptop a lot cheaper than this phone at the moment.

    I'm sure there's plenty of use cases but it comes down to cost and if the IT services are in place. That's the simple reality.
    07-19-2016 08:37 AM
  12. MDK22's Avatar
    Thing is you can get a laptop a lot cheaper than this phone at the moment.

    I'm sure there's plenty of use cases but it comes down to cost and if the IT services are in place. That's the simple reality.
    COST will always drive decisions, those pogo pins are there for proprietary use (among other things not even thought of). How much does that (those) IT Security Specialist cost to manage their devices?

    A cheap laptop can be had for less, in some cases, a tablet can be had for less.
    However, in some cases the current solution is about the same price as the phone.
    In the case of a toughbook, the phone would be a cheaper alternative.
    Depends upon the scenario, HP did not develop this in a void, there must have been some problem(s) waiting for this solution.
    They convened meetings with several Enterprise customers to evaluate customer needs / use cases and subsequently adoption.
    They probably had a very good idea of cost when the customer(s) asked for everything.
    Their pilot companies probably got the (nearly finished) devices @ a significant price break.
    The quid pro quo was they were the Insider group, flushing out bugs, giving feedback, etc.
    BYOD (and security) has become a (costly) nightmare for IT.

    IF they don't sell them to Enterprise (adoption does NOT materialize), we may be able to avail ourselves of the fire sale. I earlier stated that a possible target may be 500k, that might be a tad low (possibly break even). I'd imagine they'd have to move (well) over a million units to justify R&D costs & turn a tidy profit.

    TIME will tell ... were there over a million instances where Enterprise can benefit from this device.
    Last edited by MDK22; 07-19-2016 at 09:24 AM.
    RumoredNow and libra89 like this.
    07-19-2016 08:58 AM
  13. dksf42's Avatar
    [B]
    Depends upon the scenario, HP did not develop this in a void, there must have been some problem(s) waiting for this solution.
    They convened meetings with several Enterprise customers to evaluate customer needs / use cases and subsequently adoption.
    They probably had a very good idea of cost when the customer(s) asked for everything.
    Their pilot companies probably got the (nearly finished) devices @ a significant price break.
    The quid pro quo was they were the Insider group, flushing out bugs, giving feedback, etc.
    BYOD (and security) has become a (costly) nightmare for IT.

    IF they don't sell them to Enterprise (adoption does NOT materialize), we may be able to avail ourselves of the fire sale. I earlier stated that a possible target may be 500k, that might be a tad low (possibly break even). I'd imagine they'd have to move (well) over a million units to justify R&D costs & turn a tidy profit.

    TIME will tell ... were there over a million instances where Enterprise can benefit from this device.
    I completely agree and that's why I simply can NOT understand the lack of any Verizon "discussion" in the US market?

    In fact, if you carefully read all of the "current reports" there is little "mention of carriers" in the US market ... except, all of us reading the specs and tea leaves!

    Verizon would lose tens of millions of dollars in revenue by not having a Verizon "certified version"!!!
    07-19-2016 12:11 PM
  14. JM_Thomas's Avatar
    I completely agree and that's why I simply can NOT understand the lack of any Verizon "discussion" in the US market?

    In fact, if you carefully read all of the "current reports" there is little "mention of carriers" in the US market ... except, all of us reading the specs and tea leaves!

    Verizon would lose tens of millions of dollars in revenue by not having a Verizon "certified version"!!!
    This might explain why we haven't see anything here in the US about carrier availability yet.

    I get the feeling VZW is playing their usual childish games of "I want an exclusive device for CDMA, I want total control on updates, etc..." like normal, but this time, with HP backing them, Microsoft is telling VZW to pound sand.

    MS says either let us manage the software or no deal, and VZW won't blink just yet. Then again it may be Qualcomm that is balking at it since they are the ones to grant license for CDMA radios.

    Hard telling at this point.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    07-19-2016 12:36 PM
  15. MDK22's Avatar
    This might explain why we haven't see anything here in the US about carrier availability yet.

    I get the feeling VZW is playing their usual childish games of "I want an exclusive device for CDMA, I want total control on updates, etc..." like normal, but this time, with HP backing them, Microsoft is telling VZW to pound sand.

    MS says either let us manage the software or no deal, and VZW won't blink just yet. Then again it may be Qualcomm that is balking at it since they are the ones to grant license for CDMA radios.

    Hard telling at this point.
    You could be correct (Qualcomm), but highly doubtful - the CDMA radio already exists on the SoC, simply some firmware to implement it (from what I've read).

    As I said before, HP has the hammer with this, it's up to Verizon to decide. IF Enterprises are clamoring for this device (and the limiting factor is the Verizon contract), we'll see what service level AT&T will give us & at what price.

    THIS will NOT be resolved by launch date - Verizon is notorious for these tactics.
    It'll take subscribers leaving (threatened or otherwise w the trickledown to consumer level when the employees lose their discount) to move them.

    BTW - I was a Verizon sub. They would not entertain the discount new subs got for existing upgrades (on whatever phone was in vogue @ the time). I left for AT&T for FREE (the same or very similar) phones & lower cost for monthly service probably 10 years ago.
    07-19-2016 01:52 PM
  16. dksf42's Avatar
    This might explain why we haven't see anything here in the US about carrier availability yet.

    I get the feeling VZW is playing their usual childish games of "I want an exclusive device for CDMA, I want total control on updates, etc..." like normal, but this time, with HP backing them, Microsoft is telling VZW to pound sand.

    MS says either let us manage the software or no deal, and VZW won't blink just yet. Then again it may be Qualcomm that is balking at it since they are the ones to grant license for CDMA radios.

    Hard telling at this point.
    In addition to "large companies teaming with HP to bring buying pressure" on Verizon, I raise again that "our Verizon Lumia ICONS were NOT on the original Windows 10 Mobile upgrade list!!!

    Then, almost like magic, around June 14, 2016 ... the announcements started to fly about Verizon and Microsoft pushing out a supported "Technical Preview". We installed it + have had one OTA update pushed just a few days ago!

    My Verizon ICON is my daily driver = it has worked flawlessly and way more powerful than Windows Denim 8.1 = a real reason to upgrade !!!

    So, WHY would Verizon do this - they obsoleted the Lumia Icon almost 2 years ago - unless Verizon was at least either bowing to some pressure and/or was seeing the opportunity with the HP Elite x3 ???

    Oh yes, some business colleagues with the Lumia 930 in the UK - sister device to Lumia ICON aka 929 - received their Windows 10 updates in late Feb/early March as I recall.
    Last edited by dksf42; 07-19-2016 at 02:59 PM.
    07-19-2016 02:01 PM
  17. cracgor's Avatar
    COST will always drive decisions, those pogo pins are there for proprietary use (among other things not even thought of). How much does that (those) IT Security Specialist cost to manage their devices?

    A cheap laptop can be had for less, in some cases, a tablet can be had for less.
    However, in some cases the current solution is about the same price as the phone.
    In the case of a toughbook, the phone would be a cheaper alternative.
    Depends upon the scenario, HP did not develop this in a void, there must have been some problem(s) waiting for this solution.
    They convened meetings with several Enterprise customers to evaluate customer needs / use cases and subsequently adoption.
    They probably had a very good idea of cost when the customer(s) asked for everything.
    Their pilot companies probably got the (nearly finished) devices @ a significant price break.
    The quid pro quo was they were the Insider group, flushing out bugs, giving feedback, etc.
    BYOD (and security) has become a (costly) nightmare for IT.

    IF they don't sell them to Enterprise (adoption does NOT materialize), we may be able to avail ourselves of the fire sale. I earlier stated that a possible target may be 500k, that might be a tad low (possibly break even). I'd imagine they'd have to move (well) over a million units to justify R&D costs & turn a tidy profit.

    TIME will tell ... were there over a million instances where Enterprise can benefit from this device.
    Anytime someone wants to talk about how HP has some sort of insight, do remember the TouchPad.
    xandros9, libra89 and N_LaRUE like this.
    07-19-2016 06:46 PM
  18. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Is the mobile carrier market in the US free and open? I'm thinking our local telcom can beat everyone there if the decided to launch themselves in the US
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-20-2016 05:24 AM
  19. dksf42's Avatar
    Is the mobile carrier market in the US free and open? I'm thinking our local telcom can beat everyone there if the decided to launch themselves in the US
    The US market is carved out by 4 major carriers 1) Verizon, 2) AT&T, 3) Sprint, 4) T-Mobile + a number of "smaller regional carriers".

    BUT, HUNDREDS of MVNOs that operate "with the big carriers networks" ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...work_operators

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile...twork_operator

    Verizon and AT&T have a virtual "stranglehold" in the US ... but, "the winds may be changing" !

    For example, there are "no subsidies anymore", phone calls and TXT messaging, mobile hotspots, etc. are UNLIMITED and "monthly COST is based mainly on DATA usage" in GBs + so much "per connected device".
    MDK22 and Chintan Gohel like this.
    07-20-2016 01:33 PM
  20. editguy's Avatar
    Anytime someone wants to talk about how HP has some sort of insight, do remember the TouchPad.
    All companies, even the most successful, have some failures. All. No exceptions. That doesn't mean that they have no insight. Frequently because of those failures they become more cautious and do much more research for future products.
    07-21-2016 02:15 AM
  21. editguy's Avatar
    The US market is carved out by 4 major carriers 1) Verizon, 2) AT&T, 3) Sprint, 4) T-Mobile + a number of "smaller regional carriers". .
    If you intended to rank those in order, I believe T-Mobile has now surpassed Sprint. :)
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-21-2016 02:18 AM
  22. Y2HBK's Avatar
    Not sure if anyone saw or not but a HP tech did a AMA on Reddit last night. Link below.

    $500 for the lap dock? Holy ****. Even our Enterprise sales rep said he heard that it was being targeted for $199-$249.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/windowsphon...swer_time_ama/
    07-21-2016 05:19 AM
  23. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Not sure if anyone saw or not but a HP tech did a AMA on Reddit last night. Link below.

    $500 for the lap dock? Holy ****. Even our Enterprise sales rep said he heard that it was being targeted for $199-$249.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/windowsphon...swer_time_ama/
    I think HP have lost the plot.

    Honestly. It's cool and all and 'very new' but really $500 for dumb terminal is a bit steep. It's also as heavy (or heavier?) as a Surface Pro.

    All those saying HP have done the research I think this proves one thing. They have the high end market in mind only for this product. I don't think they plan to sell many at all.

    Again, just going by personal experience I think most IT managers would be hard pressed to present this to upper management as a solution unless your company specifically fits in with this model.

    As I've said before. At this stage of Windows 10 this product feels to me to be very niche.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    07-21-2016 05:52 AM
  24. nate0's Avatar
    With the drop of the Redstone release we may see more phones like this one...or more phones with W10M running on them :). Redstone is suppose to be 64 bit and will open the door for continuum. This is price is reasonable to Enterprises, but in perspective takes some initiative on their part to integrate it into their environment I am sure.

    For an average Windows Mobile user, this phone is a dream, and I am hoping the price drops sooner than later, because as soon as it does everyone and their sibling who is into Windows Mobile or willing to try it will drop 600 or less to get this thing. Folks willing to spend 500+ easy on an Android device that is not IP67 rated or even as durable are insane. Especially since android devices are a dime a dozen.
    07-21-2016 12:54 PM
  25. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Not sure if anyone saw or not but a HP tech did a AMA on Reddit last night. Link below
    FWIW: The guy says he is in Sales, not tech. I was just looking at that from another link.
    Guytronic and libra89 like this.
    07-21-2016 02:59 PM
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