HP Elite X3 - Verizon hates us

[a5cent]

I know a number of people on Verizon which as far as service they trust.
These same people usually lament: I wish I could find solid service elsewhere for a lot less money.
I've heard the cry for lower cost for existing customers numerous times.

As a cheapskate I would jump from Verizon in a heartbeat for less cost despite alleged awesome coverage.
I think AT&T is hellbent on stomping Verizon into the ground with coverage and lower costs for the user.

Well okay, but that's not an argument against CDMA or its lifespan. IMHO that's an argument against Verizon as a viable business. Sure. If Verizon implodes within two years then it may not be worth it. That just isn't happening. AFAIK Verizon is still the largest carrier in the U.S. and even if that were to change, they'd still have more customers than most nations have people. How could being able to sell devices to all of those folks not be worth it?

 

[Krystianpants]

Well this is Verizon's stance on the 950 business...I imagine it is the same for HP. Anyway, there is a phone number for you to call if you continue to have questions. It seems Microsoft hates you...Verizon is more like apathetic.

Verizon proves Microsoft responsible for no unlocked Lumia 950 XL on their network - MSPoweruser

Right. I mentioned that about the FCC. It's why I don't get why HP says "Verizon hates us" when the guy in the AMA said that it supports CDMA. So what exactly is the problem? Either way he mentioned a new device coming. Maybe they are working on a consumer version or a mid tier version, or same device that is verizon branded with some differentiation.

 

[dksf42]

Right. I mentioned that about the FCC. It's why I don't get why HP says "Verizon hates us" when the guy in the AMA said that it supports CDMA. So what exactly is the problem? Either way he mentioned a new device coming. Maybe they are working on a consumer version or a mid tier version, or same device that is verizon branded with some differentiation.

I seriously doubt that HP will make the same mistake as Microsoft by chasing any consumer market for the HP Elite x3! If HPs "Enterprise customers" can say "I'd BUY thousands of more units if they worked on Verizon" = then it will happen!

I believe it WILL happen, just like the Icon, just hoping "sooner that later"!

PS We still do NOT know if LTE Band 13 is present, in addition to, CDMA?

 

[RumoredNow]

PS We still do NOT know if LTE Band 13 is present, in addition to, CDMA?

But we do know... https://forums.windowscentral.com/e...%2FGetPDF.aspx%2Fc05193008.pdf&token=j6ys2EtA



No Band 13, no CDMA.

 

[aximtreo]

Agreed...
Then again why support a technology that evidently has a short lifespan?
Far as I can tell CDMA is a US only thing.
Why limit a network with CDMA when GSM supports LTE with a single SIM?
Am I thinking in the wrong direction here?

I don't think the effort would be major and the life span will be longer than suggested here. It's already done; it's already in the phone. A simple verification by Verizon and a flip of a software switch and there you are.

If we wait until the new system at Verizon takes over, who's to say that the right band exist for the present phones to work then. Think of all the unhappy Verizon/HP/Microsoft customers you would have then.

My simple suggestion is the the two CEO's meet in a private room, whip it out and see who has the largest one in fact. Then walk out of the room arm in arm and tell the world it's a tie. We can now begin to do business.
:wink:

 

[dksf42]

But we do know... https://forums.windowscentral.com/e...%2FGetPDF.aspx%2Fc05193008.pdf&token=gsqXED7E

View attachment 128829

No Band 13, no CDMA.

I know, that's the "current published GLOBAL" datasheet - I know it lists US model - but "then why would the HP sales rep say that CDMA is on-board"?

It's a cat and mouse game!

 

[RumoredNow]

I know, that's the "current published GLOBAL" datasheet - I know it lists US model - but "then why would the HP sales rep say that CDMA is on-board"?

It's a cat and mouse game!

Because the SoC is capable even if it is not enabled. I looked in on that Reddit and the guy is in Sales... That's his job and his slant. He's not an Engineer. He didn't make the thing. He is supposed to push the thing.

When you go for service on your car do you listen to the guy in the showroom or the mechanic?

 

[Guytronic]

How could being able to sell devices to all of those folks not be worth it?

Touche...
I understand Verizon is the only option for many of it's users.

I have nothing against the company I just think GSM is a less complex option.

 

[tgp]

I have nothing against the company I just think GSM is a less complex option.

I'm not an engineer at Qualcomm, so I cannot say for sure, but I don't know if GSM is less complex. I think it's more that GSM is the worldwide standard, therefore that's what is the most common. Verizon does also use GSM for LTE, requiring their phones to have both GSM and CDMA. I guess that in itself makes it more complex.

If a factory unlocked device has CDMA enabled, you can simply insert a Verizon SIM card and go. To the end user, it is no more complex than with AT&T, T-Mobile, or any other GSM carrier. In fact, I've never needed to manually create an APN on Verizon, but with GSM carriers it is often necessary. That could be because I usually used MVNOs though; I'm not sure if it would be necessary with AT&T or T-Mobile, or any other non-MVNO.

Similar to many other posters here, I am baffled as to why Microsoft and HP did not enable the CDMA technology in their phones. I don't think expected low sales numbers are the reason. My logic for that is that Google's Nexus devices have CDMA enabled, and they sell in relatively low numbers.

 

[dksf42]

Because the SoC is capable even if it is not enabled. I looked in on that Reddit and the guy is in Sales... That's his job and his slant. He's not an Engineer. He didn't make the thing. He is supposed to push the thing.

When you go for service on your car do you listen to the guy in the showroom or the mechanic?

Sorry ... I live in Silicon Valley and personally worked for HP - for 15 years - in Global Accounts sales at both corporate and the Computer systems group HQ as a senior sales manager ... and, I speak with good knowledge!

HP does NOT monkey around when it comes to delivering large Enterprise solutions to their largest Enterprise customers!

Whatever we get to read and see is mouse nuts compared to what's really happening - and has been happening - for many, many months now ... out of the public eye!

Would you "like to make a no money gentlemen's bet" that the HP Elite x3 ends up on Verizon"???

I am trying to find out but there is a blanket of secrecy on Verizon!

How about a poll as to who believes or not !!!

PS I "think" we are on the same side = don't shoot the messenger, this is a healthy "conversation" in a democracy = CORRECT??? I am NOT the enemy if I don't accept a stupid datasheet!

PPS What side of the fence were you on as to whether the Verizon Lumia Icon "would or would NOT get Windows 10 Mobile UPGRADE"?

Be honest !!!

My Icon, running Windows 10 Mobile has been my AWESOME daily driver since early June 2016!

 

[fatclue_98]

Because CDMA is currently in use and will continue to be in use during the expected lifespan of these phones.

Big Red has announced they are sunsetting CDMA by the end of 2019. Are these phones expected to last only a little over 3 years? Maybe in the consumer world this holds water but I doubt corporate purchases will be made knowing there will be such a short lifespan.

 

[RumoredNow]

Would you "like to make a no money gentlemen's bet" that the HP Elite x3 ends up on Verizon"???

I'm not saying it won't ever be on Vzw, just that it is not set up to be right now. Kindly check the FCC testing documentation and advise us where you see that CDMA or LTE Band 13 was ever put forth as a capability for this device. https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repo..._id=efRn/q9gea4avfBWGV8rbg==&fcc_id=B94HHF606 There isn't a conspiracy to hide a capability here. The FCC gets full disclosure on what a device can do. Right now... Today... This device is not Verzion capable with the hardware revision we see at launch.

PPS What side of the fence were you on as to whether the Verizon Lumia Icon "would or would NOT get Windows 10 Mobile UPGRADE"?

Honestly I don't think picking sides has anything to do with it. Did I think Icon deserved to be on W10M? Absolutely. Was I personally concerned? Absolutely not. I do not now, nor do I plan to have, an Icon. I cast my vote (with my $$$) long ago for the superior 1520.

I live in Silicon Valley and personally worked for HP - for 15 years - in Global Accounts sales at both corporate and the Computer systems group HQ as a senior sales manager ... and, I speak with good knowledge!

And you do sound like you know what you are talking about, but from the little I saw on the Reddit that guy whatever he is (because internet) doesn't really seem like he's comfortable or knowledgeable answering technical questions. I see far more authoritative posts here on WC every day from regular folks who've never worked for HP.


Do I hope that those trapped on Verizon (yes trapped, it's an awful carrier with the most expensive plans in the world and it gouges consumers horribly) could get access to the HP Elite X3? Absolutely. Will I try and stir up false hope and say buy one now and they will flip a switch in a month or two and it will all work out? Absolutely not.

Please see my comments in the nigh interminable will 950/XL come to Verizon threads...

 

[dksf42]

I'm not saying it won't ever be on Vzw, just that it is not set up to be right now. Kindly check the FCC testing documentation and advise us where you see that CDMA or LTE Band 13 was ever put forth as a capability for this device. https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repo..._id=efRn/q9gea4avfBWGV8rbg==&fcc_id=B94HHF606 There isn't a conspiracy to hide a capability here. The FCC gets full disclosure on what a device can do. Right now... Today... This device is not Verzion capable with the hardware revision we see at launch.

Honestly I don't think picking sides has anything to do with it. Did I think Icon deserved to be on W10M? Absolutely. Was I personally concerned? Absolutely not. I do not now, nor do I plan to have, an Icon. I cast my vote (with my $$$) long ago for the superior 1520.

And you do sound like you know what you are talking about, but from the little I saw on the Reddit that guy whatever he is (because internet) doesn't really seem like he's comfortable or knowledgeable answering technical questions. I see far more authoritative posts here on WC every day from regular folks who've never worked for HP.

Do I hope that those trapped on Verizon (yes trapped, it's an awful carrier with the most expensive plans in the world and it gouges consumers horribly) could get access to the HP Elite X3? Absolutely. Will I try and stir up false hope and say buy one now and they will flip a switch in a month or two and it will all work out? Absolutely not.

Please see my comments in the nigh interminable will 950/XL come to Verizon threads...

Amen = we shall all soon see !

PS It could be worse = NO HP Elite x3 and ALL of us Windows 10 Mobile "believers" are screwed !!!

 

[a5cent]

Big Red has announced they are sunsetting CDMA by the end of 2019. Are these phones expected to last only a little over 3 years? Maybe in the consumer world this holds water but I doubt corporate purchases will be made knowing there will be such a short lifespan.

Sure. Does that make it reasonable to just flat out ignore that huge market and potential sales during those three years, particularly when the cost to technically support that is almost nothing? I think not. That's my point.

 

[fatclue_98]

Sure. Does that make it reasonable to just flat out ignore that huge market and potential sales during those three years, particularly when the cost to technically support that is almost nothing? I think not. That's my point.

My guess is that Verizon makes unreasonable demands. This isn't the first handset that ships without support for VZW's bands. It costs more in man-hours (minuscule, I know) to flip the switch off than it would to leave the chips alone.

 

[dksf42]

Big Red has announced they are sunsetting CDMA by the end of 2019. Are these phones expected to last only a little over 3 years? Maybe in the consumer world this holds water but I doubt corporate purchases will be made knowing there will be such a short lifespan.

Good point, but first of all, every single iPhone and Android that has been sold by Verizon for years into the Enterprise is in the same boat!

Second - as far as I have read - Verizon has already begun turning on VoLTE - is this also Band 13?

 

[JM_Thomas]

I posted this on the Verizon Wireless forum in response to a question about whether Verizon was going to get any new Windows 10 phones in the near future:

"I am beginning to doubt it. Why would any manufacturer want to deal with the headache of both getting FCC certification, then turn around and jump through the lengthy and to a large extent needles testing that Verizon seems fond of requiring. If GSM phones pass FCC testing, they are basically good to go from there.



If VZW is not willing to actively market Windows phones like they do Apple toys and Android junk, or even keep Windows phones in their stores, does anyone wonder why the OEMs are all looking at going solely GSM-based? Verizon is lagging behind in making the switch to VoLTE simply because they don't want to have to spend the additional money all at once for more towers which VoLTE will require since it is basically the same as GSM-base LTE. Higher frequency signals require closer spaced towers, due to the fixe output wattage they are allowed to transmit/receive at.



Why else would they keep CDMA tech? As long as they can milk that cash cow using existing hardware, their profits will stay up.



Once they have to compete in the LTE arena with AT&T and T-Mobile, then they are facing real competition, something they don't have with Sprint and US Cellular, both of which are too small to hurt VZW."

My reasoning is simply VZW isn't going to VoLTE till they absolutely have to. The backhaul change-out, plus the additional towers isn't something stock owners like to hear is eating into their dividends.

 

[Y2HBK]

I have, for the most part, always been a Verizon customer. I left for 2 years when the iPhone 3GS came out and was still AT&T exclusive. I switched back to Verizon the day my contract expired bc my service was so awful in my area.

Here I am years later and I'm giving very serious consideration to switching to AT&T again. I get a 18% discount through my work. We have 4 lines on the family plan but it sounds like only I will be switching. I contemplated T-Mobile but the few people in my area with it aren't happy. Really hoping I don't make the wrong decision but at least I get 2 weeks to try it out (I think).

 

[dksf42]

As we debate whether "Verizon Hates Us" or NOT, I'd rather look at this "mysterious Certification process" and even the option of a Verizon MVNO.

Remember, under the 700 MHz FCC action that Verizon "won", there are rules - and - also remember, that in this exploding IoT world = it is NOT just about a smartphone but a whole range of devices.

I found this in less than 1 minute of searching !

https://opennetwork.verizonwireless.com/content/open-development/home.html

AND ... check this out = IF Motorola CAN do it and Samsung CAN do it, then HP should as well !

Just pick "Device Type = smartphone" and hit Filter

https://opennetwork.verizonwireless...ent/devices-modules.html?networks=FourGGlobal

 

[a5cent]

^ That MS could easily certify their devices for use on Verizon's CDMA network is well understood . That's undisputed and has already been mentioned previously. The real question is under what circumstances certification becomes economically or legally unviable despite being technically rather trivial.