W10 and ARM... here we are!

[Daniel Rubino]

So remember a year ago when Rubino, Thurrott etc all were saying 'omg we have seen the future, WP lives!!' followed by absolute silence? Have we finally seen what that was all about?

That was during/after the Elite x3 briefing. The idea of Win10 on ARM was still just rumor at that point and nothing was shared about that.

 

[Joe920]

That was during/after the Elite x3 briefing. The idea of Win10 on ARM was still just rumor at that point and nothing was shared about that.

Hey, thanks for clarifying this!!! At the time there was so much excitement, so it stayed in the back of my mind. So I take it you guys were all excited by the HP Workspace? Or just because it was a nice phone from a major vendor?

Personally I find the full Win10 on ARM (aka Windows RT, Unleashed!) much more exciting, so I'm kind of glad you only clarified after we heard the latest news.

 

[Greywolf1967]

A little off topic however, I do hope XDA crew or someone find a way to hack this to the arm based Surface/ RT Tablets.

 

[PerfectReign]

Enjoy what you have today and don't worry about what's next. Negative and miserable ain't no way to go through life.

good point!

Sent from mTalk

 

[vEEP pEEP]

So help me out here.
Does this address the app gap?
Does this mean apps will be written for ARM and x86? Will phones be running an emulator for x86?
Does this mean W10=W10M?
Thanks,

Mr. V

 

[Kogling]

Does this address the app gap?

Yes and no.

You'll get to run x86 applications, but the majority of these aren't "phone friendly" so it's not really going to address the "app gap" when we talk about applications available for a phone. In terms of tablets, majority of applications won't be "touch friendly" too, but this would be no different to the current Surface pro line i.e. fairly insignificant and bearable.

It will probably be better on the tablet side of things (i.e. less of an app gap because of emulation), but probably not for phones since the application ranges and usages are quite distant. And desktops never had an app gap to begin with.

Assuming it's all emulated in software, the performance degradation will also mean native ARM counterparts will perform better, and some x86 won't emulate at a usable level.

Does this mean apps will be written for ARM and x86?

Applications targeted for ARM architectures should continue being written for that architecture. x86 applications will still be written aimed towards x86. Some languages and toolsets allow targeting multiple platforms from one code base, in which case, they would have two compilations (arm and x86) and need not make use of emulation.

They would not be mixing x86 code with ARM code. In theory, they could if they needed to use a 3rd party library written elsewhere, but the idea here is to make applications only available on x86 architectures working for ARM, not for developers to create x86 targeted specifically for ARM.

We may see developers create x86 applications that know they are being emulated on ARM (WOW64 allows this) and maybe alter how they function (make phone orientation friendly, for example) but since most programming solutions allow for compilation into both x86 and ARM, somewhat pointless.

Will phones be running an emulator for x86?

I'm inclined to believe it's software emulation so yes. Others are inclined to say there's some hardware involved, and so no to a varying degree.

Basically, there's no solid confirmation on how it's done yet.

 

[Sedp23]

So when can we expect the first lower priced snapdragon 2 in 1 tablets?

Sent from Idol 4s with Windows

 

[vEEP pEEP]

@Kogling - Thanks for your answer!

It seems like we are going towards two diverging OSes....that seem about right?

Yes and no.

You'll get to run x86 applications, but the majority of these aren't "phone friendly" so it's not really going to address the "app gap" when we talk about applications available for a phone. In terms of tablets, majority of applications won't be "touch friendly" too, but this would be no different to the current Surface pro line i.e. fairly insignificant and bearable.

It will probably be better on the tablet side of things (i.e. less of an app gap because of emulation), but probably not for phones since the application ranges and usages are quite distant. And desktops never had an app gap to begin with.

Assuming it's all emulated in software, the performance degradation will also mean native ARM counterparts will perform better, and some x86 won't emulate at a usable level.

Applications targeted for ARM architectures should continue being written for that architecture. x86 applications will still be written aimed towards x86. Some languages and toolsets allow targeting multiple platforms from one code base, in which case, they would have two compilations (arm and x86) and need not make use of emulation.

They would not be mixing x86 code with ARM code. In theory, they could if they needed to use a 3rd party library written elsewhere, but the idea here is to make applications only available on x86 architectures working for ARM, not for developers to create x86 targeted specifically for ARM.

We may see developers create x86 applications that know they are being emulated on ARM (WOW64 allows this) and maybe alter how they function (make phone orientation friendly, for example) but since most programming solutions allow for compilation into both x86 and ARM, somewhat pointless.

I'm inclined to believe it's software emulation so yes. Others are inclined to say there's some hardware involved, and so no to a varying degree.

Basically, there's no solid confirmation on how it's done yet.

 

[Kogling]

It seems like we are going towards two diverging OSes....that seem about right?

I honestly don't follow the Windows scene enough to really know what Microsoft is planning, I just grab occasional glimpses of information from here and elsewhere.

But in terms of ARM /x86 architectures and emulation, I can at least say I believe it will be software emulation, that an ARM counterpart will always be faster than it's emulated variety (providing it's always ran as JiT and not a hard conversion), and that even if the feature is enabled for phones, the practicality of using the phone's screen instead of continuum will mostly ensure the "app gap" will stay relatively consistent, simply making a phone more of a portable PC than a "x86 apps for phone" type of feature.

Of course, no doubt we will see x86 developers make x86 applications intended for phones even though they likely have the option to compile out into an ARM image... Some people will probably see it as a means of getting out of the sandbox restrictions and whatnot.

Microsoft has been investing in the "IoT" scene, and with the mobile scene and now x86 emulation (and the ARM windows OS of Surface RT lines) I'm guessing their main incentive is "Windows on everything"

 

[Iain_S]

The Qualcomm guy had the X3 running with this new x64ARM OS, so we can keep our fingers crossed.

 

[Iain_S]

The ARM operating system will function via continuum I believe, still retain the mobile 10 look when used as a phone and become a full fledged pc when docked via continuum.

 

[Sedp23]

So when can we expect some of the new tablets and cheaper tablets with the new 835 sd in them?

Sent from Idol 4S