can x3 elite run x86 programs?

xandros9

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You're a funny kind of a Moderator, aren't you? You state that you assume that the x3 will never run x86 on ARM ever, but other than general reference to Microsoft's admittedly problematic history (at least wrt Mobile), you don't say what leads to that assumption. And then you further state that either way, the x3 should go back to the store? Because . . . . ? Even though I am pleased and working well with the x3? Do I have to send it back? Because of the uncertain future of x86 on ARM? Right now, exactly zero phones are known to have this future capacity. Do we all have to send our phones back to the store while we wait for word whether which, if any, phones will be included in this ARM initiative? It might also be that the x3 could run with this, but by the time that happens there will be a new HP x3 Elite that would run it better, or a Surface Phone or some other phone will run this. Its hard not to see x86 on ARM as outside of a movement for convergence of mobile and desktop, and HP is in the current forefront and partnered closely with Microsoft. How does that exclude HP from being included in the next phase in this movement?

Yup I'm certainly a funny kind of person.
Sounds like you want some more information on why I think the way I do... well, Microsoft has a rather poor track record when it comes to bringing new features to older devices, or devices that have already been sold/launched. Here we go...

- The abandonment of Windows Phone 7 devices. An alleged employee on the inside claimed it was mostly a marketing decision, not "hardware requirements." Devices got 7.8 which got them a new start menu.
- The abandonment of the RT tablets. All they got was also a new start menu instead of Windows 10 or anything.

- Windows 10 Mobile cut off from WP8 devices. (the higher-end S4 were on-par with the mid-range 400 chips that were supported) In fact, some devices were still being sold as W10M capable despite the announcement that they were indeed not.
- Call recording is only on new devices that shipped with Windows 10 Mobile. No apparent hardware issue.
- Continuum only works on new Windows 10 Mobile devices. MS says its a hardware restriction but people have gotten it working fine on the 1520, 930, 830 and 635. Of course performance wasn't great on the 830 and 635 but it poses some questions about "hardware restrictions." All that leads me to believe that whether the Elite X3 is actually capable of x86 emulation will have no bearing on the decision to deny it the feature IF and I mean IF the feature reaches mobile.

I'll add more as I remember them.

And even if the feature is planned, it may not happen, such as Edge extensions on mobile which was quietly removed from the roadmap.

Also worth noting is MS's disregard for older devices and feature regressions in some cases. Notably is that Skype is dropping support for all Windows Phones except those on the Anniversary Update, which isn't much. Those older phones can't do anything about it. Kids Corner and FM Radio was also removed from Windows 10 Mobile Anniversary update. etc.

I said the X3 should go back to the store to OP and OP alone. It simply won't meet his expectations and I wasn't sure it was made clear enough thus far. You sir, can do what you wish, don't take it personally.
 

mmcpher

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Thanks for reply, xandros9, the patient tone of which makes me regret my testy, earlier post. I do take your role as Moderator seriously, particularly in light of the volume of your contributions here. You certainly make a fair case about Microsoft's record. Having been on the short end of a few of those unfulfilled promises, I won't argue, but I will say it hasn't all been that way. I still have a 1520 in good use, along with a Surface Pro, a Surface Pro 3, a 950 XL and an x3. I was able to upgrade the 1520 and 950XL to the latest W10M builds, and I have the Surface Pro 3 on Fast Ring, and in addition to an upgraded pen/stylus and keyboard/trackpad, I am currently tooling around the SP3 with a Microsoft Dial.

The checkered past is arguably a product of the challenges in transforming the Microsoft ecosystem on the fly. It's predictable that there will be conflicts with some seasoned customers when the overall drive is to get the most people on board with the new paradigm. If I had to pick a fringe, I would go with the Fast-Ringers rather than those of us who are able to squeeze the most years out of old hardware. At least that way you're competing for more, rather than presiding over a diminishing, shrinking margin. As we were talking about a relatively new and high-end product in the x3, I would think most people crawling out on this expensive limb would be aware of the risks (and of the history). There have been and are signs of sustainable positive change in Microsoft, though it is hard to be sure while Microsoft continues it's elephant-coy ambiguity in its public statements about products, services and software releases.
http://forums.windowscentral.com/members/xandros9.htm
 

aespix

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No it won't, the chipset doesn't support this arm layer or some technical nonsense.

The newer snapdragon processors are now cleared to actually run fully blown windows 10 on continuum.

So yeah, another reason why the elite x3 isn't worth it.
 

nate0

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No it won't, the chipset doesn't support this arm layer or some technical nonsense.

The newer snapdragon processors are now cleared to actually run fully blown windows 10 on continuum.

So yeah, another reason why the elite x3 isn't worth it.
Regardless, for me as a consumer, this is still a killer W10M phone.
 

Chemy JMHT

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At this point it is a wait and see thing. It is probably capable. I was watching the Full demo by Terry Myerson last night, and afterwards one of the VPs from Qualcomm came out carrying the X3 in hand. Later noted that the demo Myerson gave was on the same chipset as the HP unmodified. Not sure what that means for the X3, and that is all we really have. There are others around the forum that have more insight on this though. So, it is up to you.

That's good info, I read about the new ability from MS to run Windows on ARM, so maybe the next update will be a desktop-like version for the X3
 

a5cent

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^ How often has MS allowed a device with one OS (W10M which has no licensing fee) to update to a totally different edition/SKU of the OS (W10 which has a licensing fee, is far less secure than W10M, requires a lot of maintenance, and will have a different UI when being used as a phone)? The answer is never. I'd also not be surprised if many using the x3 would consider such radical changes (e.g. suddenly having to run registry cleaners and windows defender on what they initially considered to be a locked down and maintenance free phone) unacceptable.

Furthermore, I doubt anyone running emulated x86 software on an X3 would find the experience satisfying. However, even if it worked perfectly, I think the chances of MS and HP doing such an upgrade are, for the reasons mentioned, pretty much zero.
 
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a5cent

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^ You mean like how they demonstrated early versions of W10M on the L1520 and then all L1520's were update to W10M... oh yeah... right... never happened. And that would have been a straight update from WP8.1 to W10M... no cross update to a completely different OS SKU/edition.

More importantly, the presenter was very clear when he said the presentation was made using the same CHIPSET as is used in the x3. The x3 was not what they used for this demonstration. That almost begs the question why not. I'll let you try and guess.

Believe what you want. Just don't say you weren't warned.

There is way too much hype surrounding this issue. Not enough critical thinking.
 
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Kogling

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The x3 was not what they used for this demonstration. That almost begs the question why not. I'll let you try and guess.
presumably because they were working on x86 under ARM before the HP elite was announced, plus the ability of having to update or change things without having to request development boards from HP etc?

They are most likely using a development board which is designed for such purposes rather than a production phone.

That really isn't unexpected to be honest. I would not want to try throw together a test build on a 3rd party phone for a presentation, where the 3rd party is typically responsible for making drivers (because they designed the hardware) when they have their well designed development board to be used instead.

the only purpose of mentioning that it uses the same chipset as the x3 would be to suggest that the x3 is more than capable.
 

a5cent

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the only purpose of mentioning that it uses the same chipset as the x3 would be to suggest that the x3 is more than capable.

The "only purpose"? You do realize that Terry Meyerson wasn't talking to consumers in that video, right? He was talking to hardware developers attending WinHEC. Nobody in that room gives a rats behind about whether or not W10 runs on HP's Elite X3. The X3 already exists. Those people care about developing new hardware. Given the context, you don't think there's even the slightest possibility that the purpose of his statement may only have been to say that emulating x86 on ARM is possible NOW, rather than a year down the road?

Anyway, although MS has occasionally referred to the SD820 as a chip that can theoretically run full Windows, all the reporting suggests that production level devices with emulation capabilities will ship with the SD835. I'm more inclined to believe that will end up being the minimal hardware requirement.

Like I said, believe what you will. Ultimately, we're all just guessing. Just don't ever say MS "promised" that x86 emulation will be coming to all devices with an SD820 like the X3.
 

Ivan05il

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What they showed was a proof of concept, that it is possible. I do not expect them to use it in phones. Despite everything, what's the point of being able to use it on the phone. It makes a lot of sense on tablets and laptops, though. The whole Continuum thing is a bit gimmicky to me, too. Nowadays laptops are not that heavy or take much space that you'd save much not using one.
 

Kogling

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You do realize that Terry Meyerson wasn't talking to consumers in that video, right? He was talking to hardware developers attending WinHEC. Nobody in that room gives a rats behind about whether or not W10 runs on HP's Elite X3.
Firstly, the context of my previous post was in relation to the x3 not being used as the demo device with the suggestion of that being an inability of the x3 to support (or have enabled) this feature (at least how i interpreted it) when IMO it's almost impossible for them to prepare a 3rd party device around their independent developments,. Your response is largely out of the context of that as it's going on about that event rather than the x3.

However, in response to you:

Those people care about developing new hardware. Given the context, you don't think there's even the slightest possibility that the purpose of his statement may only have been to say that emulating x86 on ARM is possible NOW, rather than a year down the road?
If they only care about creating new hardware, then why are they even mentioning a software based feature that requires no changes to how hardware is made?

They have a device made with a disregard to the feature, is available now and can support it?

But why do they need to know this? Being available now, next week, month, year? What do they have to plan for, if the feature needs no hardware based consideration? What use is being told that it's "available now" but, in actual fact, that x million $$ you've just invested in a new device now has to have more money thrown at it to support it?

Yeah, that's not really the purpose of that statement. They don't need to use the x3 to say that it's available now on the basis of software only, they could have said it would work on the Edge running the 820 to turn more heads.

It's all about backward compatibility. Completely irrelevant to "new" hardware and very fundamental to practically every IT field and is more important to non-hardware people.

The point probably wasn't meant as "available now", because "available now" is only "now" when the release that feature, but "available x months ago", backwards compatible - on hardware already being replaced and available to their devices whenever windows makes it available. That's far more important than now. Fancy having windows release windows 11 for argument sake and telling everyone "but you have to get rid of all your old hardware and buy this new one".

That's far more important, and not to hardware devs but everyone in an IT field, - software devs, managers, companies investing in new hardware, systems. Windows is bigger than mobile phones after all.

Like I said, believe what you will. Ultimately, we're all just guessing. Just don't ever say MS "promised" that x86 emulation will be coming to all devices with an SD820 like the X3.
I don't, but for the sake of why the x3 wasn't used as the demo device despite being hinted as capable, I would neither dismiss as indicating it wont be added to the x3 for my previously expressed reasons.

I think the statement is rather strong indicator that it will personally, because it seems pretty pointless to dangle a carrot like that if they know full well they won't allow it /feature it. They know consumers /read/watch these presentations too and, suggesting the 820 can support it with developers potentially looking at using the 820 wont be very happy when they find out well actually, they can only use the 835? or even worse, specifically black list the x3.. yeah just sounds all kinda pointless and bull statement to me if it doesn't get put on the x3.
 
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Ivan05il

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MS was concentrating on Intel for a long time, their ARM solutions did not do well. What this says, that with this one can build very attractive Windows tablets and lightweight laptops with ARM processors, because they combine the best things of the two worlds.
 

Michael Alan Goff

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Originally posted by a5cent
^ How often has MS allowed a device with one OS (W10M which has no licensing fee) to update to a totally different edition/SKU of the OS (W10 which has a licensing fee, is far less secure than W10M, requires a lot of maintenance, and will have a different UI when being used as a phone)? The answer is never. I'd also not be surprised if many using the x3 would consider such radical changes (e.g. suddenly having to run registry cleaners and windows defender on what they initially considered to be a locked down and maintenance free phone) unacceptable.

Furthermore, I doubt anyone running emulated x86 software on an X3 would find the experience satisfying. However, even if it worked perfectly, I think the chances of MS and HP doing such an upgrade are, for the reasons mentioned, pretty much zero.


If you have to constantly run a registry cleaner and anti malware on Windows 10, you're doing something wrong.
 

a5cent

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If you have to constantly run a registry cleaner and anti malware on Windows 10, you're doing something wrong.

Absolutely. But how many people are constantly doing things wrong on Windows? Too many. There are reasons why Windows' reputation isn't exactly stellar.

Many companies prefer a more robust and locked down OS (like W10M) for exactly that reason. If they can get by without a real computer, that can dramatically reduce support costs. Updating W10M on the X3 to W10 would forfeit that advantage. I've never seen MS do that before. That's all I'm saying.
 

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