05-03-2018 04:52 PM
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  1. universalfield's Avatar
    Perhaps I am, but the next post you'll see after typing that sentence is "So, can I just use my friend's card?". Another question, and this time a touch more complex. Remember, this is after someone tried to walk in and activate one, and was told it wasn't possible.

    Not a big deal if we're talking about a different device, but with Windows Mobile being relatively obscure, and the X3 Verizon being one of the most obscure options, the odds of anyone being around to answer the questions are low.

    People will be buying these used by the end of the year if stock runs out, and kind of left in the cold.

    It becomes a bit more obvious when I point out that the VOLTE question was only answered by a few people on the entire 'net, and not a one of them mentioned where the setting was; a setting that cannot be seen without an active SIM and account.

    People get enough of an answer for their own purposes, and then commonly don't follow up.

    I don't see why having a thorough pile of information and slight tutorial in a single post somewhere that's easy to find is a problem, and if I put enough together, I might be able to get them to update their list of devices.

    Seems to me that's better than doing nothing else. This may be the last gasp from a device and OS perspective, but people will be trading them long after Microsoft runs out, and long after current enthusiasts abandon the threads.

    That's why I'm going to do what I wish more people would do when they see a problem, and try to solve it. I'll be taking it back down to the helpful store and playing around with it alongside the manager. At the very least, we'll be able to run it up the flag pole and see who salutes.

    Doesn't affect you, doesn't affect me, but it will affect someone at some point. Moreover, when one observes a hole, it makes sense for him to attempt to plug it, so long as he has time.

    This is actually a very nice phone. So long as signal holds up in the area I'm going to keep it. The size isn't actually as much of an issue as I would have thought, now that I've been playing with it for a while, but I was willing to look past that, anyway.

    Verizon as a carrier seems to like it just fine, so far. Next up: Go out where the signal is still functional, but begins to get a bit spotty, to see if it's fully utilizing their services, and see what happens with the X3 specifically with a few tests.

    I'm doing my very best here to pretend it's still relevant. Nobody is going to review this, so I may as well do it myself, right? As long as I'm at it, I may as well try to find as many problems as I can and provide the answers in as much detail as someone might need.
    04-08-2018 01:12 PM
  2. universalfield's Avatar
    Importantly, while I can't really post it here, I'll be giving that store many pats on the back. They've really gone out of their way, and are clearly a cut above anyone else in the area; or anywhere, for that matter. Very impressed.

    I'm not going to leave them without a reward in this, I just don't like to mention my precise location if I've already been typing in a thread. They'll get their mentions, and will be praised within Verizon, as well.

    It's important to remember to recount the good stuff, after all. Those guys are top shelf. It's a new store, actually, and I hope they'll lead the way in customer service around here. We certainly need it.
    04-08-2018 01:27 PM
  3. tgp's Avatar
    "So, can I just use my friend's card?"
    Yes, if it falls under the category of already active Verizon smartphone SIM card. It doesn't make any difference whose it is.

    I'll be taking it back down to the helpful store and playing around with it alongside the manager.
    I wouldn't bother. If they didn't help you before, they won't be able to now either.

    You need an already active Verizon smartphone SIM card! Get one somehow. Buy a Verizon smartphone, borrow a friend's active Verizon SIM card, or ask the store to activate a phone on the shelf. Whatever. Until you do this, you likely will not be able to use your phone.
    04-08-2018 05:56 PM
  4. universalfield's Avatar
    You're not paying attention, and I've been quite clear multiple times. I'm happily using the phone already. I was not asking that question myself in the post you quoted. That was an example of the sort of question nobody will answer when asked in a few months.

    Please attempt to understand that the present is not the only thing people should be concerned about.

    I was trying to politely tell you that a little bit of effort should be put into helping this standard's last gasp go down smoothly and with at least a small amount of elegance for the consumer.

    Using someone else's SIM does not make the phone function with your own SIM, nor does it sort out Verizon's catalog of devices. This can be changed, but someone actually has to care about other consumers, and if that's got to be me (apparently it does) so be it.

    Do you intend to make calls on someone else's account? If you're under the impression that simply borrowing one and using it to "activate" the phone will work, and then opening your own account to use it, that is not accurate.

    Your suggestion could be made until the cows come home, and it still would not solve the problem. I have indeed tried to politely explain this from several angles already, so now I'm just telling you: You're wrong.

    As for speaking with the manager, I am doing that to help others, not myself. I intend to make an attempt with that store to get this phone recognized in Verizon's database, because it's hiding in there already.

    One more time: If you walk in and try to open an account with an Elite X3, it's not going to work. Most people do it that way. Many Elites will be returned in frustration, and many people will become impatient at the counter, as the employees have no recourse.

    That doesn't have to happen. All it takes is one person to get the memo run up the flagpole. I can't help the fact that nobody else can be bothered to spend an hour or so doing it; but I need to get all the information I can before doing that.

    If it's all on one sheet, it's more likely to result in a positive outcome. That's as polite as I'm going to be, at this point. Here I am trying to get this sorted on Verizon's end so the next crop of customers won't run into pointless issues, and I'm being hassled with the same irrelevance as a result.
    04-08-2018 06:21 PM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    Your suggestion could be made until the cows come home, and it still would not solve the problem. I have indeed tried to politely explain this from several angles already, so now I'm just telling you: You're wrong.
    OK, so I give up! Please tell me what I said that was wrong so I don't pass on the same mistake to someone else. I truly want to know!

    I will admit that I have been struggling to know exactly what you're saying. Your posts are long cryptic word salads. They are beautifully written with impeccable English, both in grammar and word selection, but in the end they don't really say much.

    You originally posted saying that you took your HP Elite X3 to a Verizon store to get it activated, but they couldn't. I suggested getting an active Verizon smartphone SIM card some other way, such as buying a cheap smartphone or borrowing a phone from a friend and getting it activated on your account. Somehow, the thread morphed into this!

    I do realize that my saying that you could use a friend's SIM card could have been taken the wrong way. Of course I know as you do that the phone would be using your friend's account. I guess my thought was that you could at least see if your phone works with Verizon, and to test the theory of using an already active SIM card. My apologies!

    I'm happily using the phone already.
    What? I thought that this was the problem all along; you couldn't get the phone activated. How did you get it done?

    One more time: If you walk in and try to open an account with an Elite X3, it's not going to work.
    This is exactly what I have been saying!

    Here I am trying to get this sorted on Verizon's end so the next crop of customers won't run into pointless issues
    The proper advice for any future HP Elite X3 customer is to use an already active SIM card. This is what I've been doing for the last four years. I, like you, use factory unlocked phones that support Verizon's network. I just swap my SIM card from one phone to the next. I don't take it to the Verizon store and try to get it activated.

    One time I needed to get a new SIM card. My first Verizon phone used a micro SIM. When I got a phone that had a nano SIM, I cut my micro SIM card so it would fit in the new phone. It worked, but it was a bit finicky.

    I went to a Verizon store and asked for a new SIM card. They looked at my phone and said they can't exchange SIM cards because my phone was not Verizon branded. So, I went home to get a Verizon smartphone I had bought for someone else but had not yet sent to them. I put my SIM card in it, took it back to the store, and then they were able to exchange SIM cards.

    I am very familiar with all the ins and outs of using factory unlocked devices on Verizon. Believe me; I've been doing it for the last 4 years! I just know that it's pointless to try to get them to activate a factory unlocked phone.

    I had read up on that before I opened my Verizon account. When I opened my account, the phone I planned to use was a factory unlocked phone (Nexus 6, but I had to wait awhile until it was available), so I bought a cheap Verizon phone on eBay for account activation. I never went through the hassle you did because I knew it wouldn't work.
    04-08-2018 08:43 PM
  6. universalfield's Avatar
    I see where you're coming from. Try to think of these posts as letters written specifically to you, and they might be a bit smoother. I tend to compose things with that in mind.

    Yeah, I tend to use slightly antiquated grammar, and it can be a bit of a shock one the web when someone comes upon one of my posts in an already active thread. LOL

    Sometimes people aren't quite sure if I'm actually typing what I mean, because they're used to the opposite. It's rather like one of those tests you may have received in school, where you come upon a question that could be a trick, but you can't be entirely sure.

    An example would be: Elephants are large. True or false? Well, we both know that question cannot be answered, but write that on a test and see where it gets you. A failing grade. (You can trust me on that one. Yup. I was that kid.) :) So, you naturally try to interpret what the teacher meant; generally to no avail.

    Believe it or not, I actually tone it down a bit when posting on forums. I'll back it off a bit more and use more contractions. It can throw people off when they're not used very often these days.

    Here's the thing. If you tell the average person to use an already activated SIM to get the phone working, they won't understand that they'll need their own account, and will ask about it. Sounds crazy, but you know how people are.

    The problem is, they'll be asking about it in six months. At that point, nobody will be interested in answering the question. Even now most similar questions are answered by suggesting people buy something else.

    You're bound to have something like that around the house; some device that was buried on the 'net by some other device, and any question you have is impossible to research. With the X3, people are bombarded with information related to the GSM version. You can count the Verizon model threads on one hand with fingers to spare, and even those are all mixed up.

    Now, that's a problem because, as evidenced by every question I've ever seen in relation to this phone, people commonly do not know there is a difference, and it takes a page of posts just to illustrate that difference. Doesn't help that it's actually the same hardware.

    Imagine later this year, or next year, when people are scooping them up used on certain sites, and trying to activate them... There's going to be a lot of confusion.

    In regard to your suggestion about using any activated SIM, here's the problem: Put a SIM in there, and yes, it will work. Pull it out, and the phone immediately forgets the network entirely. Put it back in, and it's back.

    That mandates having your own account and a SIM attached to your information. Using a friend's, as an example, only works as long as it's installed. Beyond that, you have to have your own.

    So, telling someone to insert an activated SIM to get it working will result in people trying it, removing the SIM once they verify it works, and walking right down to Verizon to be denied. That's the issue with the suggestion.

    Now, if people were a little more patient, that might be enough information. They're not, though.

    My goal was initially to find out whether the VOLTE setting was "in the phone" or needed to be selected once an account was active. At that point, I realized something needed to be done about Verizon's inability to recognize it, and decided to find out exactly why.

    Funny thing is, it shows up perfectly well in the account. It's in their system, but not all of it. I believe a message detailing the issue sent to HP, Microsoft, and Verizon, via internal channels, may change that. If not, it may create a knowledge-base article. They're all actually a little more responsive than most people think.

    What I'm doing is exploring every potential pitfall in order to create what amounts to a "tutorial" for people to find. One list answering all the seemingly pointless questions the average person will ask. Since this forum is the only relevant place that pops up in searches, it may as well be posted here when I'm done.

    As for the Elite X3 itself, I do feel confident in stating that it is, quite simply, the finest mobile device I've ever owned, and I've owned a lot. It puts a smile on my face every time I pick it up.

    I do intend to review it in text and video soon. The device deserves a fair shot, in that regard. It may be on the tail end of relevance, but it's just so darn perfect it should be examined beyond the operating system. It's a solid achievement that HP should be very proud of.

    ...or, of which HP should be very proud. LOL
    BeachBomb likes this.
    04-08-2018 09:43 PM
  7. nate0's Avatar
    In regard to your suggestion about using any activated SIM, here's the problem: Put a SIM in there, and yes, it will work. Pull it out, and the phone immediately forgets the network entirely. Put it back in, and it's back.
    That's how Windows 10 mobile works with Multivariant provisioning on the phone.


    My goal was initially to find out whether the VOLTE setting was "in the phone" or needed to be selected once an account was active. At that point, I realized something needed to be done about Verizon's inability to recognize it, and decided to find out exactly why.

    Funny thing is, it shows up perfectly well in the account. It's in their system, but not all of it. I believe a message detailing the issue sent to HP, Microsoft, and Verizon, via internal channels, may change that. If not, it may create a knowledge-base article. They're all actually a little more responsive than most people think.
    VoLTE is a joint effort. The device needs to support it at the SW interface Level and be configured on the modem side to use it. Likewise the carrier has to see your device as supportable. The VZ Elite X3 is supported for VZW VoLTE. If an account does not recognize that VoLTE is provisioned for a phone that's supported by the carrier in that aspect then one would need to work that out with the carrier.

    I've used the VZ Elite X3 with VoLTE on VZ, it works and is supported in that way. The only real known issue with the VZ Elite X3 currently that we know of has to do with mms pics and video being sent or received not working as intended.

    Edit: The one crappy part about the VZ Elite X3 though. Is that even though VoLTE works on VZW hd voice nor wifi calling nor Visual voice mail did. So it's actually a step down for me. What good is volte without hd voice and what good is one of the best networks if vvm won't work like gsm networks have it.
    04-08-2018 10:15 PM
  8. universalfield's Avatar
    Yeah, it became obvious after a while that it was just Windows doing it's thing.

    VoLTE had me confused for a bit, as usually there is an obvious toggle somewhere, but it appears Windows rolls it into a few other things that you want turned on anyway. That's what had me a bit lost, in that regard. I thought it might need to be activated on the SIM level.

    I noticed in mine that while the web was configured properly, MMS hasn't been set within the SIM menu. I did just send a pile of full-res shots to someone without an issue. I'll be doing that fairly often, so if there's a problem I'm sure I'll encounter it.

    I do intend to apply visual voicemail and see what happens. I was told they dropped it a while ago, but I guess it's back. It's worth the few bucks just to see if I can make it work for a month.

    HD Voice seems to be working fine for me. I don't always like it, though. It can cut out background noise on occasion when the other party isn't talking, which seems like a good idea, but in practice just makes me think the call was dropped. LOL

    I turned it off on the headset about five minutes ago for that reason, and the fact that it does eat batteries much more quickly. I like a bit of fuzz in my conversations; just enough to know that the line is still open.

    I haven't tried WiFi calling, but the only reason I'd ever do that is to see if it works. I probably should.

    You know, it's too bad this wasn't one of the first releases, rather than the absolute last. It would have made some bigger waves in the business world. Imagine if they'd had a larger audience for a longer time, and been able to spend the money on a few updates over the years.

    Whenever Microsoft's new project materializes, I'll probably frame this thing. It may be slightly flawed from an integration perspective, but from a hardware and OS perspective, it's a perfect legacy.

    The only issues I've encountered are just Windows Mobile quirks, such as having to load edge twice. Quite often, the first time it loads everything is tiny and non-functional. Same goes for trying to adjust other volumes when Bluetooth is connected. It's nothing to do with the X3, though.

    That said, there's no guarantee I won't have some of your issues in the future. I hope not, but if I've got to re-send a few pictures every now and again, it's nothing next to being forced into another hardware and OS option.

    I'm trying not to mention any other models here, as last time I did the post needed approval. I think that might have been why.
    04-09-2018 12:10 AM
  9. nate0's Avatar
    The mms apn is fine blank. It's like this on every windows 10 mobile phone I've owned. It's there available though if you ever need to add manually for any reason. All the visual mms/sms provisioning and configuration is hidden in the registry.
    04-09-2018 01:07 AM
  10. tgp's Avatar
    The mms apn is fine blank. It's like this on every windows 10 mobile phone I've owned. It's there available though if you ever need to add manually for any reason. All the visual mms/sms provisioning and configuration is hidden in the registry.
    I've found that the MMS APN is usually needed when your carrier is an MVNO. I've not needed it on mainline carriers though.
    nate0 and libra89 like this.
    04-09-2018 08:07 AM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I've been reading some of these posts and I have to ask, has Verizon changed their APN lately? Carrier information is on a database which every OEM uses and I remember a couple of years ago when AT&T and T-Mobile changed their APNs and every factory unlocked phone was in chaos because the DBs weren't updated.

    I haven't been on VZW for a few years so I'm going to ask a simple, stupid question regarding VVM. Is it included in every package? It used to be a "premium" feature so if it's not included, the phone won't set it up when it's provisioned at first use.
    nate0 likes this.
    04-09-2018 08:25 AM
  12. nate0's Avatar
    I've found that the MMS APN is usually needed when your carrier is an MVNO. I've not needed it on mainline carriers though.
    Possibly. I've only used Cricket as an MVNO, but did not need it... Good point
    04-09-2018 08:55 AM
  13. nate0's Avatar
    I've been reading some of these posts and I have to ask, has Verizon changed their APN lately? Carrier information is on a database which every OEM uses and I remember a couple of years ago when AT&T and T-Mobile changed their APNs and every factory unlocked phone was in chaos because the DBs weren't updated.

    I haven't been on VZW for a few years so I'm going to ask a simple, stupid question regarding VVM. Is it included in every package? It used to be a "premium" feature so if it's not included, the phone won't set it up when it's provisioned at first use.
    There are two VVM packages. VVM Basic and Premium. The basic is free. For the Elite X3 it says/said it was not compatible at the time I was using their network (Basic and Premium)

    Edit: Actually now that I recall it...it did not say compatible, but for me if I selected it and tried to complete the add-on in my account it would fail with an error. VZW stated that it appeared the phone is not compatible for it, but since the option was selectable maybe down the road it would be made available to work on the phone. But that was up to HP it seemed.
    04-09-2018 08:57 AM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    Possibly. I've only used Cricket as an MVNO, but did not need it... Good point
    Yeah that was my personal experience. I of course have not used every single mainline carrier or MVNO, so it's not exhaustive. Cricket is wholly owned by AT&T, so maybe that has something to do with it too.

    Speaking of VVM, I don't use carrier VVM so I cannot give any help there. For the last several years I've used Google Voice. I set my phone number to forward to my GV number after a set number of rings. This also gives my wife a chance to answer because we share a Google account, which is valuable because I do some international traveling where my regular Verizon number is offline. I can answer as well on Hangouts if I happen to have data, and it's not the middle of the night where I am!

    After a couple rings of the GV number, the call goes to Google voicemail, which I've found is somewhat more accurate at transcription (although it is still laughable!).
    nate0 likes this.
    04-09-2018 09:22 AM
  15. universalfield's Avatar
    The last time I had visual voice mail, all it did was show me who called, and selecting an event played the message. It was good enough for me, honestly.

    If you guys are talking about speech to text "transcription" voice mail, My 928 wasn't doing that with Verizon when it was new, nor was the more popular competing device I used briefly. If it's a new feature, I'm sure I'll give it a shot soon.

    I'm going to turn on VVM soon, just to see. Right now, I'm just waiting a month to make a single payment on the phone I bought from them when I opened the account. I'm just doing that to offset the credit check required to open one. Then I'll just pay it off and sell it.

    I'm not going to return it and eat up any commission that fellow might have earned after all his effort, as that wouldn't be too friendly.

    Once it's completely out of the account, I'll play with more services.

    The rest of this post doesn't apply equally to everyone. We all have our own limits in regard to privacy and security. Mine are simply more easily reached than those of most people these days.

    No way am I messing with Google Voice, either way. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't beat my brains out trying to keep a Windows Phone in tow until the Surface unit shows up. I'd just get something else for a year or so.

    Fine services, fine hardware, and a fine OS, but they've got a terrible master.

    I've tied them to businesses before, but not unless I was fully insulated. I won't use one personally. Let them crawl all around the latest project I've started. The more data they get, the better it's going to work out for me.

    Not my personal use, though... That's a no-go.

    Now, this won't be the case long, given the soon to rise era of UWP and PWA, but we're actually in a pretty interesting time. I've got a Windows device in my coat pocket, and the platform is so obscure that I'm probably safer with that than anything else in general use. LOL
    04-09-2018 02:02 PM
  16. tgp's Avatar
    @universalfield So are you using your X3 on Verizon? I haven't seen in any of your posts where you said how you got it working, but a more recent post says:

    I'm happily using the phone already.

    FWIW, it would be helpful to write shorter posts and more to the point. It is difficult to follow your current status.
    04-09-2018 02:11 PM
  17. nate0's Avatar
    I've got a Windows device in my coat pocket, and the platform is so obscure that I'm probably safer with that than anything else in general use. LOL
    Interesting perspective and true depending on who you are 😃
    04-09-2018 03:15 PM
  18. universalfield's Avatar
    @universalfield So are you using your X3 on Verizon? I haven't seen in any of your posts where you said how you got it working, but a more recent post says:




    FWIW, it would be helpful to write shorter posts and more to the point. It is difficult to follow your current status.
    My posts are quite short. They're just surrounded by telegraph snippets.

    I'll keep to the old ways of actually communicating context to validate contention. Everyone else can tap their Morse keys and pass around half a point and misunderstanding. I won't play ball, in that regard.

    Reading comprehension has been almost entirely lost recently, and it causes problems. Big problems.
    04-09-2018 03:56 PM
  19. tgp's Avatar
    Everyone else can tap their Morse keys and pass around half a point and misunderstanding.
    FWIW, this thread has been full of misunderstandings. I'm not sure your antidote is working!

    I'm still curious; how did you get your X3 working on Verizon?
    04-09-2018 04:59 PM
  20. universalfield's Avatar
    Heh. I may be whistling in a hurricane, but if I'm to die being the last man on earth holding language together, so be it. I can actually type these posts in adherence to any era of English development. I just keep it modern in general.

    How I got it working: I opened a post-paid account with a competing device that I knew would sell for the same amount of money I'd get back if I returned it. Then I swapped the SIM, and the phone shows up in my Verizon account as an X3. That's only going to work if you have an existing account.

    I decided to finance something off the shelf so I could make a payment to offset the credit check.
    tgp likes this.
    04-09-2018 05:06 PM
  21. nate0's Avatar
    Heh. I may be whistling in a hurricane, but if I'm to die being the last man on earth holding language together, so be it. I can actually type these posts in adherence to any era of English development. I just keep it modern in general.

    How I got it working: I opened a post-paid account with a competing device that I knew would sell for the same amount of money I'd get back if I returned it. Then I swapped the SIM, and the phone shows up in my Verizon account as an X3. That's only going to work if you have an existing account.

    I decided to finance something off the shelf so I could make a payment to offset the credit check.
    When I opened our new VZW account I used my wife's iPhone first. Then I added the X3 with a new inactivated sim card. Maybe that was my difference...

    That's odd that vzw basically forced you to have an account active for a device you don't intend to use or keep just to activate an unlocked X3 for their network....sounds like a good sales tactic to me as ambiguous as it seems.
    04-09-2018 05:18 PM
  22. tgp's Avatar
    When I opened our new VZW account I used my wife's iPhone first. Then I added the X3 with a new inactivated sim card. Maybe that was my difference...

    That's odd that vzw basically forced you to have an account active for a device you don't intend to use or keep just to activate an unlocked X3 for their network....sounds like a good sales tactic to me as ambiguous as it seems.
    It's not a sales tactic. They just don't have provision for activating a device not in their database. They did change that with a few factory unlocked devices of which there is also a Verizon version, such as the Pixel lineup.

    I don't understand why they need a Verizon device though for activation. Essentially the SIM card is activated. The SIM card provisions the device. I have heard of reps grabbing a device from display to activate a SIM card for a customer who has a factory unlocked phone. Obviously it doesn't matter what the device is, as long as it is in their database.
    04-09-2018 05:42 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I don't understand why they need a Verizon device though for activation.
    Simple. They still use CDMA for voice/SMS so it has to be provisioned. Do you still have to do the *228 bit to activate?
    04-09-2018 10:05 PM
  24. tgp's Avatar
    Simple. They still use CDMA for voice/SMS so it has to be provisioned. Do you still have to do the *228 bit to activate?
    I'm not sure that's it. The SIM card does the provisioning. I don't do anything except put the SIM card in the phone. I don't even have to reboot the phone (this might depend on the phone, but I don't recall ever having to reboot after inserting a Verizon SIM card in the last several years). A few seconds after inserting the SIM card I have LTE, voice, SMS, MMS, and the phone shows up on my Verizon account online. No *228 needed.

    Now, to activate the SIM card the Verizon reps might have to use *228. I don't know about that. But when I'm swapping SIM cards, I don't do anything at all other than swap the SIM card and wait a few seconds.
    04-09-2018 11:23 PM
  25. nate0's Avatar
    I'm not sure that's it. The SIM card does the provisioning. I don't do anything except put the SIM card in the phone. I don't even have to reboot the phone (this might depend on the phone, but I don't recall ever having to reboot after inserting a Verizon SIM card in the last several years). A few seconds after inserting the SIM card I have LTE, voice, SMS, MMS, and the phone shows up on my Verizon account online. No *228 needed.

    Now, to activate the SIM card the Verizon reps might have to use *228. I don't know about that. But when I'm swapping SIM cards, I don't do anything at all other than swap the SIM card and wait a few seconds.
    *228 is used on legacy devices (3G only). You might actually fry the modem or sim card if you do that in certain newer devices. Well not actually fry it, but in other words mess it up.
    04-10-2018 01:57 AM
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