Do you think HTC dropped the ball on the 8x?

[tristan.rice]

European Perspective

The 8X is significantly cheaper than the current Sim Free Lumia 920's that we are seeing. In fact in a lot of places it is cheaper than the Lumia 820.

So there is definitely a very good hardware value proposition with the 8X (specs wise).
It also a very ergonomic and beautiful phone with some unique features which people will like.

It definitely falls down in the software area though. HTC definitely haven't provided as much "out of the box" value added to the OS. It feels a bit rushed in that respect and I'm sure we'll see them add back in some functionality that was previously available.

Don't compare it with the Lumia 920 unless you are in the US. For the rest of the world, the 8X competes with the Lumia 820, and its almost certainly the better phone in that fight.

 

[iamtim]

what is more important is ... how the overall wp8 marketshare progresses

Microsoft - and Windows Phone supporting manufacturers - have a tough road ahead of them. I don't think Windows Phone will ever unseat iOS or Android, but there is room for a third option, for those people who desire neither iOS nor Android.

RIM will soon be releasing BlackBerry 10 (heh, supposedly) and RIM has a LOT of die-hards. If WP8 can squash BB10 and win over those die-hards, MS will have clinched that third option. I think that's who they should be targeting with their marketing, personally.

 

[cp2_4eva]

European Perspective

The 8X is significantly cheaper than the current Sim Free Lumia 920's that we are seeing. In fact in a lot of places it is cheaper than the Lumia 820.

So there is definitely a very good hardware value proposition with the 8X (specs wise).
It also a very ergonomic and beautiful phone with some unique features which people will like.

It definitely falls down in the software area though. HTC definitely haven't provided as much "out of the box" value added to the OS. It feels a bit rushed in that respect and I'm sure we'll see them add back in some functionality that was previously available.

Don't compare it with the Lumia 920 unless you are in the US. For the rest of the world, the 8X competes with the Lumia 820, and its almost certainly the better phone in that fight.

Eh, in the US we almost have no choice but to compare it when talking about pricing. And I'm sure that's what Nokia was going for...the jugular...on pricing. People are willing to take the size when you add in more features and lower pricing. All in all, i hope WP8 succeeds so the demand is higher and the companies are more prone to develop for WP8. But it seems that the view of the HTC 8x is different over in Europe than it is in the US. Then again, I am on AT&T so my view is probably a very narrow one. T-mobile and Verizon have the 8x. HTC is going for volume on 3 of 4 major carriers here in the US. Could work in their favor I hope.

 

[Villain]

judging by the amounts of issues the 920 has been having I don't think the 8X fails at all

 

[zhelfrich]

I am not sure comparing it to the the lumia really matters - what is more important is how the HTC DNA sells and how the overall wp8 marketshare progresses, if the DNA sells well and the response to WP8 is as poor as it was to Wp7, then really who cares? It is like being the winner in a school football match, your family will care but nobody else.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

i agree with you on how the reaction will be but i think the adoption to wp8 will be bigger with the metro theme carried across with windows 8 and windows 8 rt and i think it will start to really entice people as a viable option.

the biggest fear most regular consumers have is the investment most people who buy apps and other things on their phone want to be able to keep it like if i spend $200 on ios apps then switch to android you lose that investment so most people dont want to jump into windows phone and watch it go the way of WebOS and have nothing to show for it so it makes most people skiddish but now seeing the cross platform unifying of metro i think it will make it firmiliar and give people some security in windows phone 8 that it will stick around and i think it has the potential to really be a rival force for apple and the android platforms

 

[Isror]

i agree with you on how the reaction will be but i think the adoption to wp8 will be bigger with the metro theme carried across with windows 8 and windows 8 rt and i think it will start to really entice people as a viable option.

the biggest fear most regular consumers have is the investment most people who buy apps and other things on their phone want to be able to keep it like if i spend $200 on ios apps then switch to android you lose that investment so most people dont want to jump into windows phone and watch it go the way of WebOS and have nothing to show for it so it makes most people skiddish but now seeing the cross platform unifying of metro i think it will make it firmiliar and give people some security in windows phone 8 that it will stick around and i think it has the potential to really be a rival force for apple and the android platforms

I know a lot of people who complain about the "lack of apps" and when I ask them "Give me 10 apps you NEED on a daily basis that DON'T include a talking hippo" their reaction is one of being stunned, and they can't/won't answer.

 

[Daniel0418]

This is Verizon's fault, always is, always was

Maybe HTC could have done something to help this a long, but this is the same story with Verizon every time. HTC Thunderbolt delayed, Droid Bionic delayed, Galaxy Nexus delayed. This is the same thing I have been dealing with for years and it is Verizon every time. This is ridiculous that they botched another launch. It is really frustrating and despite their great LTE network, I am just about ready to leave Verizon in March. Verizon's decision making and silly games are precisely the reason the Nexus 4 doesn't have LTE. They botched Windows Phone before, and they are botching it again. I really can't stand it.

 

[tomatoes11]

A non-removable battery never holds the iPhone back, and i bet the iPhone with the lowest storage sells far far more units than the higher storage versions.

Just look at the drop tests of the Galaxy S3. The cost of removable storage and removable battery, is a flimsy phone.

To be honest, i think HTC did a brilliant job. Its a beautiful phone, at a reasonable price, with a very hand friendly shape, and stuff like the Beats amp and super fast camera will appeal to a large number of people.

You mean that video where they were dragging a GS3 along the road going pretty fast and there was hardly any damage on the phone?

 

[tomatoes11]

I like Samsung (my first smartphone was a Galaxy Mini ). But I'm not really sure if they would are a good example of a company with good "R&D". I maybe wrong, can you care to elaborate more on what good R&D Samsung has done?

On topic, I agree with spiff_p239 that to the tech geek, the HTC 8X is underwhelming. However, to the average consumer I also think that this phone looks great (with the correct pricing of course)! I showed the HTC phones to my cousin and he likes them better than the Lumia actually. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Also I'm really confused about the pricing of the 8X in the US. It's more expensive than the 920, which actually has a LOT more to offer!

BTW, I'm not biased to the 920, I'm getting an 8X

Just off the top of my head.

First to release super powerful A15 chip sets or chip sets in general

Super efficient manufacturing processes with great yields like their 32nm high k metal gate process for mobile devices.

Highest resolution 10 inch display. One AMOLED and one IPS LCD(the one in the Nexus 10)

flexible displays

A lot of stuff like this. At least twice a year
Samsung's new storage chip will bring thinner, faster smartphones | News | TechRadar

Super thin phones(something Nokia and HTC struggle to do with good battery life, although the HTC One X is okay at 8.9mm)

Great optics with APS-C sensors. They make some pretty advanced focal length lenses for their mirrorless cameras. Sony NEX lenses are not nearly as sharp or compact. Sony has way better sensors though so that evens it out or puts them slightly ahead.

Heck, they even made tanks at one point.

 

[1414H77]

Yes, they dropped the ball, but not as to design, but as to being able actually get inventory in the stores to actually sell. It is their launch day at Verizon and the stores have not even gotten shipments.

 

[zhelfrich]

I know a lot of people who complain about the "lack of apps" and when I ask them "Give me 10 apps you NEED on a daily basis that DON'T include a talking hippo" their reaction is one of being stunned, and they can't/won't answer.

o i agree with you that most people use these apps out of novelty ill admit even some of my banking apps can just be replaced by a mobile website but im just saying even if they dont need it they are thinking i spent money already why do i have to spend it again i was commenting more on having to invest in a new ecosystem and less on the fact of the amount of apps because i think the amount of apps isnt as big of an impact to most people i mean yea ios has the biggest app store but does anyone take the time to actually browse it or do you just search for what you need or browse the front page of featured because i know thats what i do.

my point was really just a lot of people are scared to start investing in a new platform and risk it going down the drain when they could just choose from ios or android but microsoft has really made the core os so functional it differentiates itself and makes it worth it at least in my opionion especially when you toss on bonuses of office its a big plus for me the only draw back is no file system access that is really disappointing

 

[spiff_p239]

Maybe HTC could have done something to help this a long, but this is the same story with Verizon every time. HTC Thunderbolt delayed, Droid Bionic delayed, Galaxy Nexus delayed. This is the same thing I have been dealing with for years and it is Verizon every time. This is ridiculous that they botched another launch. It is really frustrating and despite their great LTE network, I am just about ready to leave Verizon in March. Verizon's decision making and silly games are precisely the reason the Nexus 4 doesn't have LTE. They botched Windows Phone before, and they are botching it again. I really can't stand it.

Ever stop to think that maybe new technology issues played a small part in the rolling out of those devices? There were numerous reports that Thunderbolts were blowing through batteries in 5-6 hours and my Droid Bionic wasted 75% of its battery in 3 hours while sitting in my pocket on a few occasions.

With regards to the Nexus 4, AT&T and Verizon use different frequencies for their LTE and most of Europe doesn't even have it yet. They did the smartest thing they could and produced a quality handset at a VERY attractive price that will run on the vast majority of networks. While Verizon may be the largest carrier in the United States, and yes it's disappointing that we'll likely never see the Nexus 4 on it, the rest of the world has a much larger number of subscribers.

Go ahead and leave Verizon if you want to, nobody's stopping you. As long as the company you go to has reliable service in your area, you can get exactly what you want.

 

[a5cent]

I like Samsung (my first smartphone was a Galaxy Mini ). But I'm not really sure if they would are a good example of a company with good "R&D". I maybe wrong, can you care to elaborate more on what good R&D Samsung has done?

Samsung did not invent OLED technology, but they perfected it and are the only ones currently capable of mass producing displays using that technology. Samsung invests more into improving OLED technology than any other company. That involves a lot of basic physics and materials research. If a device has an AMOLED screen, chances are very high it's from Samsung.

Tomatoes11 suggested being first to market with an A15 core is a result of Samsung's R&D efforts, but I disagree (I would credit ARM technologies instead). However, I would say their Exynos SoCs represent an in-house engineering and development effort worth mentioning. Their SoC's are usually better than the competitions. Somewhat more research related is Samsung's semiconductor manufacturing capability, particularly the improvement of process technology. Samsung isn't the only player in that field, but they are doing very well. They are currently the second largest semiconductor manufacturer in the world (after Intel). I believe they are also the leading developer of NAND chips (used in flash memory and SSD's).

They also invented things like the transparent LCD.

I'll concede that Samsung's research efforts are more about evolving technology than revolutionizing it, but just developing the technology required to produce everything they make necessitates a larger research budget than most other companies have in total.

 

[cp2_4eva]

Samsung did not invent OLED technology, but they perfected it and are the only ones currently capable of mass producing displays using that technology. Samsung invests more into improving OLED technology than any other company. That involves a lot of basic physics and materials research. If a device has an AMOLED screen, chances are very high it's from Samsung.

Tomatoes11 suggested being first to market with an A15 core is a result of Samsung's R&D efforts, but I disagree (I would credit ARM technologies instead). However, I would say their Exynos SoCs represent an in-house engineering and development effort worth mentioning. Their SoC's are usually better than the competitions. Somewhat more research related is Samsung's semiconductor manufacturing capability, particularly the improvement of process technology. Samsung isn't the only player in that field, but they are doing very well. They are currently the second largest semiconductor manufacturer in the world (after Intel). I believe they are also the leading developer of NAND chips (used in flash memory and SSD's).

They also invented things like the transparent LCD.

I'll concede that Samsung's research efforts are more about evolving technology than revolutionizing it, but just developing the technology required to produce everything they make necessitates a larger research budget than most other companies have in total.

I can always count on you to educate people here and kick some knowledge. Good post. As if I didn't have respect for Samsung, I have a tad bit more now taking it that your post is in fact true.

Too bad they passed ATT up on this round of WP8 devices. They still have the ATIV S on their site. Is that thing even coming out? Not the Odyssey.

 

[nicooke]

8X owner here.

I agree with the point a few of you have made - it is a gorgeous phone. It isn't top spec but all the quad core in my One X did was make ithot and drain the battery - they aren't reeally needed until people right apps to take advantageof them.

What is really getting my proverbial goat is WP8 - I love it and hate it at the same time in a way. It is fluid, well thought out, and integrates web services nicely....

... apart form Skype that is a preview. And Nokia Drive which was coming to all phones - no wait, just the maps. Then there are the random reboots, the email bugs and so forth.

MS, not HTC, are going to need to acknowledge the problems and announce their plans to deal with them rather than just saying "wait, it'll come". HTC did a fine job with the 8X, and I want to love it I really do, but time will tell if the OS doesn't just evolve too slowly.

 

[Smg-Uk]

The main faults for the 8x, not enough storage, not en expandable storage slot, and no removable battery

Same with the lumia's / Nexus 4 / iPhone etc but look at how popular they are. HTC are just following the trend and despite what a lot of people on forums like this might think about the 8X it doesn't really matter as long as the general public like it as that is where the money is.

It might not be a big hit in America but over here in the UK etc its selling out its a lot cheaper than the Lumia and its widely available.

I don't see where the ball has been dropped ?

+It has probably the best audio of any WP device maybe of most phones out at the moment.

+It has a camera which is around the best camera's on any mainstream device at the moment.

+Best FFC on any phone.

+It has one of the best screens and certainly the highest screen in terms of PPI (not including the new 1080p phones).

+It has one of the best designs I have ever seen.

+It has fantastic signal & call quality.

The only area I think HTC could have done better is battery but then the Lumia 920 doesn't seem to do any better so its probably more a WP8 issue at the moment.

 

[romeze]

Personal opinion

I just got my black 8x this morning and I have to say I am amazed. Build quality, sound and call quality alongside overall looks. I do not think by any means HTC dropped the ball. I have to say my friend brought over his l920 and I was jealous until... My 8x came in. I was pretty bummed I could not get the 920 on Verizon, but after testing out the both of them I surprisingly prefer the 8x. That being said, 920 does have better built in apps and better camera (slightly) in our comparison photos, but if both were made available to me on Verizon I would still go with the 8x. Black slick case with stand, high contrast mode look like Darth Vader had a love child with a Ferrari.

 

[a5cent]

Your thoughts? Is this an HTC FailX or is there still some saving grace in the 8x? And how soon do you think HTC releases an improved version of the 8x?

I think the 8X will find more than enough buyers to earn HTC a profit, and I think that would justify calling it a success. I find that the "launch debacle" comments are completely blown out of proportion, for Nokia as well as HTC. Two months from now nobody will remember all the "hubub" this caused. In my view the launch related issues are irrelevant.

The 8X has its place in the market. It certainly has a few unique selling points (particularly its design). It will find enough buyers to make HTC's efforts worthwhile.

Long term however, I don't see a lot of good things coming HTC's way.

All the big players (Apple, Microsoft, Nokia) will squeeze whatever licensing royalties they can out of HTC, further eroding HTC's ever shrinking margins.

HTC also lacks the ability to negotiate better deals with their suppliers like Apple or Nokia can, which puts even more pressure on their margins. When it comes to supply chain management Samsung is the undisputed leader, as they can source almost every single component in-house. This issue is already seriously hurting HTC's margins and it will get worse going forward.

Smartphone hardware will get increasingly commoditized. At some point competition will mainly come down to price. I don't see how HTC can compete once the industry reaches that point. They just aren't set up as a company to survive in that type of environment, and I expect them to fade into obscurity around then. Apple will also be in for a world of hurt (for Apple it's a "the higher they climb the harder they fall" kind of thing).

 

[romeze]

I just got my black 8x this morning and I have to say I am amazed. Build quality, sound and call quality alongside overall looks. I do not think by any means HTC dropped the ball. I have to say my friend brought over his l920 and I was jealous until... My 8x came in. I was pretty bummed I could not get the 920 on Verizon, but after testing out the both of them I surprisingly prefer the 8x. That being said, 920 does have better built in apps and better camera (slightly) in our comparison photos, but if both were made available to me on Verizon I would still go with the 8x. Black slick case with stand, high contrast mode look like Darth Vader had a love child with a Ferrari.

Just a quick follow up, music sounds incredible! thought beats audio was a gimmick, really is not, built in speaker and headphones are phenomenal. Only negative thing I have experienced is lousy 4 apps HTC provides, wish there was a way to download Nokia's.

 

[jdballard]

Black slick case with stand, high contrast mode look like Darth Vader had a love child with a Ferrari.

Awesome description.