02-28-2013 10:22 AM
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  1. BHFH's Avatar
    You must really love androids then. Each manufacturer have their own exclusive skins and apps, not to mention the 3 major app stores, Amazon, Play and Tegrazone.

    I admit exclusive apps are bad for the platform as a whole but that is the only way to differentiate on WP. With MS having strict hardware requirements and banning UI skinning, there isn't much room for the OEMs to stand out.
    02-21-2013 05:16 AM
  2. TechnoJoe's Avatar
    I admit exclusive apps are bad for the platform as a whole but that is the only way to differentiate on WP. With MS having strict hardware requirements and banning UI skinning, there isn't much room for the OEMs to stand out.
    Bull...if the OEMs want to stand out then they need to innovate with hardware or custom apps/livetiles like Samsung's Now, or HTC's clock/weather tile. The 920 was able to differentiate itself with a superior camera, screen, wireless charging etc.

    I for one and thankful that skinning and things like HTC sense aren't allowed. I have a platform that is rock solid and never freezes, and I don't need some OEMs crappy programming to change that ( For reference see android)
    02-21-2013 06:33 AM
  3. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    It's not as bad as Android app fragmentation.
    You have to support a ton of resoultions, from 240p @ 4:3 aspect ratio, to 1080p @ 16:9 aspect ratio.
    OEMs have exclusives. I believe they're called bloatware.
    And, the three app stores.

    Personally, If you have a problem with fragmentation, get an iPhone.
    02-21-2013 06:44 AM
  4. Coolknight1968's Avatar
    Look... I find it totally wrong that MS agrees to this exclusives stuff and does not force Nokia, Huawei, Samsung and HTC to share applications. From Samsung we should get "Chat On", from HTC their HTC app, from Nokia their Navigation, from Huawei... "well they will also come up with something nice..." This policy of exclusives is harming the whole ecosystem.
    Ray Adams likes this.
    02-21-2013 08:47 AM
  5. Residing's Avatar
    Look... I find it totally wrong that MS agrees to this exclusives stuff and does not force Nokia, Huawei, Samsung and HTC to share applications. From Samsung we should get "Chat On", from HTC their HTC app, from Nokia their Navigation, from Huawei... "well they will also come up with something nice..." This policy of exclusives is harming the whole ecosystem.
    Sadly, there is no 'Dislike' button for comments; I would surely use a 'Dislike' button for your post if it were an option.

    Chat On is the property of Samsung - they have the right to decide who gets access to it, not Microsoft. Same goes for Nokia and HTC - it is their property and they have the right to decide who gets access to it (free, paid, or not at all).
    02-21-2013 09:50 AM
  6. sniffs's Avatar
    Exclusives should come out when the ecosystem is flourishing and/or has all the popular apps that the other systems have.

    Exclusivity drives sales, no doubt about that, but if we are to think that Windows Phone 8 is a brand new baby, than doing exclusives right out the door on a ecosystem with single digit penetration is bad.

    Nokia is basically saying "Come to us, or don't come at all.." you can rebuttal this by saying that the exclusives will eventually come out for the other platforms.. but my re-rebuttal is that they are mostly FREE during that period wheres once the exclusivity ends, you have to pay for them on the other devices.

    I agree that Samsung/HTC aren't doing enough.. but HTC is barely surviving.. they can't be spread too thin. Samsung on the other hand, see's Android as a CASH COW, so why invest in a fledgling OS that they think won't ever hit double digits?

    Nokia is doing this because they have no other baby, this is it for them.. However, they should be developing first party app exclusives and let MS bring the developers to the platform instead.
    02-21-2013 10:13 AM
  7. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Good overused comeback. I'll go ahead and assume that you don't have anything of value to say, just like the rest of your posts on this thread.
    I was tired last night so when I read just how far off the mark you are about what I said I simply didn't want to go to the effort to correct it. Now that I've rested -

    1. Is that because of Nokia's exclusive apps? You seemed to allude to the fact that what minimal fragmentation is occurring because of Nokia's exclusive apps. That's what this whole thread is about right? Re-read my post. I didn't say anything about fragmentation NOT occurring. I simply said it doesn't occur because of Nokia's exclusive apps lol. If you truly think that's the case then you're sorely mistaken. Portico came out for HTC 8x on T-Mo first and was followed by Lumia 920 and 820 on ATT. Sooo....yeah I don't see why you even brought up fragmentation in the first place.
    Again,
    Android fragmentation = Devices that are made by several different OEM's, with each OEM placing their own skin and set of apps on the UI and OS updates that get released through the carrier, at differing dates months apart from each other not only for each device but for each carrier. Do I think this is all because of Nokia apps? Um no. You made that leap yourself, so if you're confused at my intentions, check yourself before you check me. It is a small factor in play though. Don't make assumptions on my behalf and then proceed to get off on a tangent about something that didn't happen.

    2. As for Nokia's exclusive apps, you seemed to miss my point...again. You were essentially stating that Nokia would develop sub par apps and everyone would freak. My point was that if that's the case, EVERYONE does that. Is there any evidence that Nokia does it more? Should it stop anybody from ever developing apps ever? You act as if it's exclusive for companies to mess up on apps. Newsflash, everyone does and all companies do
    "You did, you said, you think"

    you seemed to
    You were essentially stating
    You act as if
    Thanks for letting me know what I say think and do again. I can't have a conversation with someone who keeps twisting my intentions around, that's not a one way street.
    02-21-2013 10:15 AM
  8. MDboyz's Avatar
    Why should Nokia spend money, so other WP phone manufactures can have benefits from it? If HTC or others care about WP like Nokia, they should spend money to develop their exclusives also. They all have to compete for the survival of WP; however, they also have to compete to survive within WP market.
    Jaripi likes this.
    02-21-2013 10:21 AM
  9. omniusovermind's Avatar
    They could monetize them. I suppose that would get all the people who think all apps should be free upset though.
    02-21-2013 10:24 AM
  10. sniffs's Avatar
    Why should Nokia spend money, so other WP phone manufactures can have benefits from it? If HTC or others care about WP like Nokia, they should spend money to develop their exclusives also. They all have to compete for the survival of WP; however, they also have to compete to survive within WP market.
    Nokia shouldn't be the one that pays developers to bring apps to the platform. This SHOULD be Microsoft doing this so that it benefits the entire OS and all the manufacturers that are taking a leap of faith that MS knows what it's doing.

    Nokia should be developing killer first party exclusives like they they do on Android. - If you can't beat them, join them. <- I said that because WP isn't Android.. but if numbers are any indication, Android is KILLING it, not only in sales, but apps, penetration and just about everything it does.
    02-21-2013 10:25 AM
  11. fiveodano's Avatar
    Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but I would rather companies have exclusive apps than to skin the phone the way they do on android. If we want phone companies to make phones for our OS of choice they are going to want to have the ability to offer something different from the competition.

    I do, however, think it would be in Nokia's best interest as well as the WP platform to give Nokia users the apps for free and to offer those same apps, at a price, in the app store for users of other phones.
    02-21-2013 10:52 AM
  12. Ray Adams's Avatar
    I don't think exclusive apps from Nokia itself will hurt WP. It's their apps, let them do it. BT what I hate and think will hurt WP ecosystem is exclusive apps for Nokia from third party developers, paid by Nokia.
    MS must do it, not Nokia.
    I currently use HTC 8X and I don't like such news about exclusives for Lumia. I already wrote that I didn't buy Lumia 920 because I think it is bad phone. To heavy, to big. And also after two Lumia 800 I had, I don't like Nia anymore. No more excellent quality. Too many bad things.
    htc 8 X is not good phone too. B at least it is not as heavy as Lumia!
    sniffs likes this.
    02-21-2013 10:59 AM
  13. Squatting Hen's Avatar
    Most users don't visit these types of forums and have no idea there are Nokia Exclusives. They only show up on Nokia phones, just like the Samsung and HTC exclusives. When I had a Titan II, HTC Watch was a pretty cool app. They would have specials for movies at a $0.05. Nokia does not have this.

    Again, it pissed me off to see (because I am a follower here) new apps being released for the Lumia when I had the Titan II. I felt, and still do feel that the Titan II was a much better device compared to the 900. But HTC would not do a thing for WP. Nokia kept releasing updates for their phone, releasing apps and showing amazing support for their products.

    I am not a company fan. I am not loyal to a brand. I chose the product I feel is best for me. When I had the ability to get a new phone, I went with the 920.
    Jaripi likes this.
    02-21-2013 12:37 PM
  14. ny_yankees's Avatar
    The job of bringing developers to the platform is the job of Microsoft not individual phone manufacturers. The fact that these Nokia exclusives are happening is actually a bad for the entire OS. Might be good for Nokia owners in short but long term not good for the rest of us who support the OS
    02-21-2013 01:04 PM
  15. Squatting Hen's Avatar
    The job of bringing developers to the platform is the job of Microsoft not individual phone manufacturers. The fact that these Nokia exclusives are happening is actually a bad for the entire OS. Might be good for Nokia owners in short but long term not good for the rest of us who support the OS
    I felt the exact same way when I had my Titan II. Anyone can look at my old posts, I was saying the exact same thing. All the Nokia love here on WP Central was a bit disgusting honestly.

    After seeing this happen for months, I realized that Microsoft was not "showing" me anything (I guess they are doing things behind closed doors) and HTC couldn’t care less about their WP's. Nokia was doing everything they could, and as a HTC phone owner, I was missing out. This is HTC's fault and Microsoft's fault. So, I decided to go with the company that was actually doing something and supporting WP.

    This is not new everyone. This could change, but based on just about the last year, Nokia is all in and the other two, Samsung and HTC, are just showing up. Neither one has showed that they truly care about WP or what happens to it.

    If they were my employees they would not get a great review. Lack of commitment and dedication. Never wanting to go above and beyond the minimum requirements, or come in early and stay late. Just showing up for a paycheck, not actually caring about the company, their work or the outcome at the end of the day.

    Based on my unbiased opinion and what they showed me while I owned HTC's product, I fired them.

    What it honestly boils down to is jealously. I was jealous that my Titan II was not getting the same attention, updates, and apps as the Nokia phone. I was upset because the device I selected, on the same OS as Nokia’s was not getting the same treatment. But after stepping back and looking at it as a whole, I realized that it is HTC to blame. I didn’t make it any less frustrating though. Nokia wants to sell phones. If they feel that apps are lacking, and getting more would help sell phones, that is what they are doing. If Microsoft is not doing it, should Nokia sit by and not do it either? Nokia acts like they want this platform to survive, they act like they care what happens to it. Should Nokia do all the work and spend the money so HTC and Samsung can mooch off of them?

    Last edited by Squatting Hen; 02-21-2013 at 01:33 PM.
    a5cent likes this.
    02-21-2013 01:22 PM
  16. sravanv's Avatar
    I was tired last night so when I read just how far off the mark you are about what I said I simply didn't want to go to the effort to correct it. Now that I've rested -



    Again,
    Android fragmentation = Devices that are made by several different OEM's, with each OEM placing their own skin and set of apps on the UI and OS updates that get released through the carrier, at differing dates months apart from each other not only for each device but for each carrier. Do I think this is all because of Nokia apps? Um no. You made that leap yourself, so if you're confused at my intentions, check yourself before you check me. It is a small factor in play though. Don't make assumptions on my behalf and then proceed to get off on a tangent about something that didn't happen.



    "You did, you said, you think"




    Thanks for letting me know what I say think and do again. I can't have a conversation with someone who keeps twisting my intentions around, that's not a one way street.
    You're welcome. You seem to backtrack alot. There I did it again because you apparently are not able to do it again. You hinted that Nokia's exclusive apps cause fragmentation. You did this by talking about fragmentation and then talking about bloatware, both alluding to the fact that Nokia's exclusive apps are "bloatware" and contribute to fragmentation.

    "That was the worst thing Android being open source has allowed. Since WP8 is too locked down for that to happen, it looks like Nokia dug around until they came up with this idea of OEM apps instead. Do you want all of the OEM's now trending towards installing more and more bloatware to be 'different than the other guy'? I sure don't."

    So, no, I'm not twisting words.

    While you can't prove that exclusive apps cause fragmentation at any level, I can't prove that they do not cause fragmentation at all. After all, I do recall saying HTC 8x was supposed to be a "signature" handset in the sense that it was supposed to be the purest experience.

    However, any delay between updates due to Nokia, its software, or apps is extremely insignificant to the point of being nonworthy of discussion.

    At the end of the day, as stated multiple times, Nokia only cares about itself as it should. Microsoft offered the ability for OEMs to produce their own apps. Nokia happily produced its own apps. At the end of the day, while it might hurt Windows a tiny bit (The number of people that get upset that Nokia has awesome apps and HTC doesn't and then decide to LEAVE the ecosystem is rather minimal...mainly because that's illogical), Nokia shouldn't (and they don't) ever care about that. For them, it's Nokia or bust.

    Another point...I notice that you get worked up easily. Calm down, it's the internet. You don't get extra brownie points for huffing and puffing in your posts.
    02-21-2013 02:22 PM
  17. omniusovermind's Avatar
    I felt the exact same way when I had my Titan II. Anyone can look at my old posts, I was saying the exact same thing. All the Nokia love here on WP Central was a bit disgusting honestly.

    After seeing this happen for months, I realized that Microsoft was not "showing" me anything (I guess they are doing things behind closed doors) and HTC couldn’t care less about their WP's. Nokia was doing everything they could, and as a HTC phone owner, I was missing out. This is HTC's fault and Microsoft's fault. So, I decided to go with the company that was actually doing something and supporting WP.

    This is not new everyone. This could change, but based on just about the last year, Nokia is all in and the other two, Samsung and HTC, are just showing up. Neither one has showed that they truly care about WP or what happens to it.

    If they were my employees they would not get a great review. Lack of commitment and dedication. Never wanting to go above and beyond the minimum requirements, or come in early and stay late. Just showing up for a paycheck, not actually caring about the company, their work or the outcome at the end of the day.

    Based on my unbiased opinion and what they showed me while I owned HTC's product, I fired them.

    What it honestly boils down to is jealously. I was jealous that my Titan II was not getting the same attention, updates, and apps as the Nokia phone. I was upset because the device I selected, on the same OS as Nokia’s was not getting the same treatment. But after stepping back and looking at it as a whole, I realized that it is HTC to blame. I didn’t make it any less frustrating though. Nokia wants to sell phones. If they feel that apps are lacking, and getting more would help sell phones, that is what they are doing. If Microsoft is not doing it, should Nokia sit by and not do it either? Nokia acts like they want this platform to survive, they act like they care what happens to it. Should Nokia do all the work and spend the money so HTC and Samsung can mooch off of them?

    Hmmm. Lots of food for thought there, and especially informative about the actual long term history of each company's relationship with WP. I wasn't aware that this has been such a long term issue instead of recent. Now that I know, you've somewhat helped me decide where my phone upgrade with Bell is going to be going in March/April, thanks
    02-21-2013 02:23 PM
  18. omniusovermind's Avatar
    You're welcome. You seem to backtrack alot. There I did it again because you apparently are not able to do it again. You hinted that Nokia's exclusive apps cause fragmentation. You did this by talking about fragmentation and then talking about bloatware, both alluding to the fact that Nokia's exclusive apps are "bloatware" and contribute to fragmentation.

    "That was the worst thing Android being open source has allowed. Since WP8 is too locked down for that to happen, it looks like Nokia dug around until they came up with this idea of OEM apps instead. Do you want all of the OEM's now trending towards installing more and more bloatware to be 'different than the other guy'? I sure don't."

    So, no, I'm not twisting words.

    While you can't prove that exclusive apps cause fragmentation at any level, I can't prove that they do not cause fragmentation at all. After all, I do recall saying HTC 8x was supposed to be a "signature" handset in the sense that it was supposed to be the purest experience.

    However, any delay between updates due to Nokia, its software, or apps is extremely insignificant to the point of being nonworthy of discussion.

    At the end of the day, as stated multiple times, Nokia only cares about itself as it should. Microsoft offered the ability for OEMs to produce their own apps. Nokia happily produced its own apps. At the end of the day, while it might hurt Windows a tiny bit (The number of people that get upset that Nokia has awesome apps and HTC doesn't and then decide to LEAVE the ecosystem is rather minimal...mainly because that's illogical), Nokia shouldn't (and they don't) ever care about that. For them, it's Nokia or bust.

    Another point...I notice that you get worked up easily. Calm down, it's the internet. You don't get extra brownie points for huffing and puffing in your posts.
    Nice drama. I'm not going to bother debating a single one of your points, not because I can't but because you just... don't have any idea what you're talking about, and now you're resorting to throwing jabs and talking smack. I hope this is clear enough for you? Because you're still doing the same thing. "I hinted"?? Seriously? you're basing your remarks on what YOU think I "hinted"? Good lord...
    02-21-2013 02:29 PM
  19. sravanv's Avatar
    Nice drama. I'm not going to bother debating a single one of your points, because I can't.
    Fixed.

    Seriously though, either it was a poorly worded statement or you're just trying to cram the toothpaste back into the tube. And actually, I wasn't really throwing jabs until you started getting a little demeaning in your responses...

    If you want, you can restate your point because I think we're both getting a little off track. But if you want to keep arguing that I misinterpreted what you wrote, then go ahead, but I disagree.
    02-21-2013 02:45 PM
  20. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Fixed.

    Seriously though, either it was a poorly worded statement or you're just trying to cram the toothpaste back into the tube. And actually, I wasn't really throwing jabs until you started getting a little demeaning in your responses...

    If you want, you can restate your point because I think we're both getting a little off track. But if you want to keep arguing that I misinterpreted what you wrote, then go ahead, but I disagree.
    I'll pass. You make too many judgements based on what you think I meant rather than what I actually say. And your tone continues to be baiting and argumentative. No thanks, have a nice day
    sravanv likes this.
    02-21-2013 02:58 PM
  21. sravanv's Avatar
    I'll pass. You make too many judgements based on what you think I meant rather than what I actually say. And your tone continues to be baiting and argumentative. No thanks, have a nice day
    Naw I think you're making an incorrect judgement on me judging you based on what I think you said, rather than what you actually said...as well as my tone. But hey, it's your wish!
    omniusovermind likes this.
    02-21-2013 03:11 PM
  22. sueha's Avatar
    HTC got more design colors (I want the one from the Steve Ballmer ad so much on my Lumia 920) and earlier updates because of the partnership with MS. Would they give away those exclusives?
    Gaichuke likes this.
    02-21-2013 03:17 PM
  23. Gaichuke's Avatar
    sueha: I laughed out loud when I noticed your avatar picture.

    Now on the topic... What else is there for differentiating yourself than exclusive apps, software features and services when most of the available hardware and the core UI is standardized by Microsoft? Microsoft must offer some options for the manufacturers and this is what they chose and Nokia is aggressively using them all.
    02-22-2013 01:04 AM
  24. VoodooKing#WP's Avatar
    Not so far, other than with Nokia Drive, which has now moved out of exclusivity. The apps and games that are exclusives now are largely not of sufficient standard to warrant any jealousy, although it does make me wonder why HTC are not doing anything, even releasing their existing apps for Windows phone 8.

    The Lumias themselves are enough to put me off them. The 920 is the worst Windows Phone 8 device there is. The phone is too big and too heavy and the device is so unstable compared to the 8X. We've got three at work and the Mrs has one at home and they freeze all the time, even with the latest updates. I've, touch wood, never had the 8X freeze on me.

    I just hope HTC continue to support Windows phone as I can't see myself buying a Nokia unless they improve a lot.
    Lol, funny how people just love making up stories like these.

    "We've got three at home and they freeze up all the time"

    That right there folks is the moneyshot.
    02-23-2013 10:55 PM
  25. IceDree's Avatar
    I understand your point of view regarding the Exclusive apps thing . But it doesn't really bother me though !
    To be fair , I'm new to the Windows Phone platform & so far so good , I didn't need any of the exclusive apps at all .


    Also , I'm glad I picked the HTC 8X over the Lumia 920 !
    Well priced , Great specs & fits my needs .
    02-24-2013 06:19 AM
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