01-29-2015 12:16 PM
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  1. thracian's Avatar
    Bad first impressions are hard to shake. Very hard. It's just like when a new guy on the job makes a rep his first year as a lazy useless worker but then really steps up his game his entire send year, all everyone remembers for a long time is his first year. When Nokia were independent, they were the ones doing most of the heavy lifting to push WP while Samsung and HTC kind of just took a casual approach and now people are pretty leery of them continuing that approach.
    nohra likes this.
    01-28-2015 10:05 AM
  2. Adrynalyne's Avatar
    Then use it. There were more models in the wp7 and wp8 days than presently.
    Cute.

    http://www.ubergizmo.com/2014/09/mic...-oem-partners/
    http://www.windowscentral.com/micros...phone-february

    They weren't saying that in 2013.

    WP7 days, Android didn't have the stranglehold it does now.
    01-28-2015 10:07 AM
  3. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Cute. Now compare OEMs in 2013 to 2014.
    You really do love to argue over the silliest of things lmao. Catching a flight so I don't have time to go back and forth with you.

    If you're going to debate at least stop relying on the same tired retorts over the trivial things :P it becomes petty. There were more devices to choose from than presently.
    01-28-2015 10:11 AM
  4. fatclue_98's Avatar
    It's not just the camera. The camera is the biggest thing. It's the phone itself compared to other competitors and its oem
    Forget the OEM. That's such a lame argument that needs to be put out to pasture. The design & engineering teams build the phone, don't hold them accountable for what management does with it. The M8 is a solid device that can run with the big dogs but is straddled with a horrible camera. It was a high-stakes gamble that didn't pay off - this time. Maybe the technology has its merits but it wasn't executed properly - this time. I know you're passionate about Lumias but give credit where credit is due.
    01-28-2015 10:15 AM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Then use it. There were more models in the wp7 and wp8 days than presently.
    Yo Superboy, get your head out of the Kryptonite. In off-brand phones alone, there are more than were available during the WP7 era.
    01-28-2015 10:18 AM
  6. Adrynalyne's Avatar
    You really do love to argue over the silliest of things lmao. Catching a flight so I don't have time to go back and forth with you.

    If you're going to debate at least stop relying on the same tired retorts over the trivial things :P it becomes petty. There were more devices to choose from than presently.
    Then come back with a response that makes sense. Nobody with a lick of business experience thinks Microsoft should forsake OEMs and contain themselves within the Lumia brand.

    PS- Selling phones for a cellular provider is not business experience.
    01-28-2015 10:18 AM
  7. Adrynalyne's Avatar
    Forget the OEM. That's such a lame argument that needs to be put out to pasture. The design & engineering teams build the phone, don't hold them accountable for what management does with it. The M8 is a solid device that can run with the big dogs but is straddled with a horrible camera. It was a high-stakes gamble that didn't pay off - this time. Maybe the technology has its merits but it wasn't executed properly - this time. I know you're passionate about Lumias but give credit where credit is due.
    The lesson learned on the M8 is that they were able to bring out a good WP device (with flaws) for minimal expense. That is a win-win situation for every OEM out there. It is all about managing risk.
    01-28-2015 10:20 AM
  8. jdballard's Avatar
    I must admit though, the m8 camera technology really confuses me. It would be interesting to see if it really does compare to the 1020/1520 as the camera has become quite an important feature for me. 
    There's no comparison. The camera on my 925 was better than the one on the M8. Two things that make me appreciate the Lumias more than the M8: camera and the display. The clear black display on my 925 beats the display on my M8. I say this as an M8 owner. I'm not sure I would use my T-Mobile jump to go from the 925 to the M8 if I had to do it over again.

    Here's hoping T-Mobile gets one of those Windows 10 phone Lumia flagships.
    Nogitsune Micah and nohra like this.
    01-28-2015 10:21 AM
  9. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    Why do all the Nokia fan boys hate the HTC one m8
    My guess is 95% have never touched one. Another group read the camera was not as good. Only 1% have actually used both.

    I like the HTC One M8 a lot and if I gave the phone to pretty much anyone, they would all think it's a quality device.
    01-28-2015 10:23 AM
  10. jdballard's Avatar
    Having used the m8 for the last week, the phone would be less ugly if it wasn't for this gimmicky speakers.
    I don't think they're that gimmicky - they actually sound pretty good to me. Definitely a different aesthetic, though. Well, maybe I can go with gimmicky in that I suspect most people won't use them most of the time - they'll use bluetooth to connect to a better speaker or car audio system. It is nice, though, when you just want to show someone a quick video and you don't have to strain to hear.
    01-28-2015 10:25 AM
  11. jdballard's Avatar
    I really, really liked the style of the 8XT but went with the 928, and then the Icon, for the camera. An experience with prior HTC hardware on our work plan - an entire batch of over two dozen DInc2s that all failed just after warranty expired - colored my experience as well. I realize that phone was from the dark days of HTC, but that is a pretty big mountain to overcome.
    The crappy hardware my wife got when she had her 8X ruined Windows Phone for her. We both had 8Xs at the time (hers was black, mine was blue) and mine ran like a champ. Hers froze, crashed and was just generally flaky. After that she went back to Android and probably won't ever try a Windows phone again. All because of bad hardware.
    01-28-2015 10:28 AM
  12. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    My guess is 95% have never touched one. Another group read the camera was not as good. Only 1% have actually used both.

    I like the HTC One M8 a lot and if I gave the phone to pretty much anyone, they would all think it's a quality device.
    I have :) I'm using one now for work. Swell device....majority have likely held at least the android one. That's a pretty hyperbolic percentage lol
    01-28-2015 10:39 AM
  13. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Then come back with a response that makes sense. Nobody with a lick of business experience thinks Microsoft should forsake OEMs and contain themselves within the Lumia brand.

    PS- Selling phones for a cellular provider is not business experience.
    And when did I say anything about forsaking their OEMs. That has nothing to do with the present topic of there were more devices and a bigger variety than presently. Perhaps youre a bit confused and stuck in your last redundant argument from a week ago. I'm talking something else presently.
    I don't think they're that gimmicky - they actually sound pretty good to me. Definitely a different aesthetic, though. Well, maybe I can go with gimmicky in that I suspect most people won't use them most of the time - they'll use bluetooth to connect to a better speaker or car audio system. It is nice, though, when you just want to show someone a quick video and you don't have to strain to hear.
    The speakers I suppose are nice but they are gimmicky. My brother is beside me presently at the airport on his Lumia and the quality of the speaker is not bad for me. I have the misfortune of having to use the m8 presently to do a marketing assignment.
    01-28-2015 10:43 AM
  14. IndyJG's Avatar
    I don't get these ******* matches over phones. I'm here because I love the OS versus having an android and Iphone. We are all Windows Phone users and supporters, regardless of the OEM, and we are very much in the minority especially here in the states. I'm happy to have HTC, Samsung, Blu, etc all in the market in addition to Lumia. Variety and choice are a good thing. I own an M8 and am more than happy with it. The Windows OS is a great fit with the hardware. I did my research before buying and chose it over available phones from Lumia and others. For numerous other people, it is not the right phone for them and that is fine. Hopefully, the right phone will come along that they feel they don't have to compromise on.
    Spec wise the camera is the only weak point, but I have been quite satisfied with its performance and support. I see the HTC camera app just got updated today. The M8 should have been available outside the US and not have the delayed roll out like it did over several months as it did in the US. Hopefully, the M9 , when available will correct this.
    BenJAMIN_2009 likes this.
    01-28-2015 10:52 AM
  15. Adrynalyne's Avatar
    Variety and choice are a good thing.
    /thread

    Not even Lumiaboy Micah can dispute this.
    matfantastic likes this.
    01-28-2015 10:59 AM
  16. Adrynalyne's Avatar
    And when did I say anything about forsaking their OEMs.
    You ahve always maintained that and has been the basis of your argument vs HTC and other OEMs. Don't backpeddle.
    01-28-2015 11:09 AM
  17. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Recycled parts that months later is still a generation newer than any hardware produced by Nokia or Microsoft. If you can look past the camera, its a great device. The camera isn't all bad for what I used it for though. Of course, the 930 is simply a recycled Icon. Why do we have to look down on HTC for repurposing hardware? Microsoft allowed for repurposing on purpose, to entice OEMs.

    I know the whole "but WP doesn't need it" argument ( I don't need a sports car, but I have one because I wanted it, so...), but I cannot tell you how many times I see WP users calling for a Nokia/MS flagship, so the demand is definitely there. The M8 is a SD801, and SD810s are coming out now, with SD820s on the horizon. A new WP flagship is...where? Who knows.
    Again, I'll got through a list to cover all of this:

    1. The Snapdragon 801 is NOT a generation newer than the Snapdragon 800. It's just the 800 with a higher clock. Overclocking a chip doesn't make it a new chip. It's the same set of cores, just running faster.
    2. I've not used the One (M8)'s camera, but I've heard those who care about photos more than just having them have called the difference between the Nokia and HTC option noticeable. I just can't speak to that because I don't have that interest, don't compare pictures, and don't have the trained eye to figure that stuff out to the degree of others.
    3. The Lumia 930 is NOT a recycled Icon. They are the same device, just with different radios and names. The 930 is an international Icon, not a recycled one. They have the same CPU, GPU, RAM, chassis, camera, storage, display, and OS. The only difference is which networks they were made for.
    4. Yes, Microsoft allowed OEMs to recycle hardware to get more options for Windows Phone. That doesn't mean I have to like what's offered. Microsoft also lets carriers install their own crapware onto devices. That doesn't stop me from uninstalling it.
    5. As for where a Windows Phone flagship is, it's not different than with HTC. HTC's One (M8) is just as old as the Lumia Icon is. The problem people have is that the Icon never came to AT&T, T-Mobile, or Sprint (as the Icon or as the 930). HTC's latest and greatest isn't any newer than Microsoft's. We're nearing the typical spring refresh for the Samsung and HTC lines, and Microsoft's summer launch shouldn't lag too far behind (we might even get an announcement from all 3 companies during MWC at the same time).
    matfantastic likes this.
    01-28-2015 11:13 AM
  18. Adrynalyne's Avatar
    Again, I'll got through a list to cover all of this:

    1. The Snapdragon 801 is NOT a generation newer than the Snapdragon 800. It's just the 800 with a higher clock. Overclocking a chip doesn't make it a new chip. It's the same set of cores, just running faster.
    2. I've not used the One (M8)'s camera, but I've heard those who care about photos more than just having them have called the difference between the Nokia and HTC option noticeable. I just can't speak to that because I don't have that interest, don't compare pictures, and don't have the trained eye to figure that stuff out to the degree of others.
    3. The Lumia 930 is NOT a recycled Icon. They are the same device, just with different radios and names. The 930 is an international Icon, not a recycled one. They have the same CPU, GPU, RAM, chassis, camera, storage, display, and OS. The only difference is which networks they were made for.
    4. Yes, Microsoft allowed OEMs to recycle hardware to get more options for Windows Phone. That doesn't mean I have to like what's offered. Microsoft also lets carriers install their own crapware onto devices. That doesn't stop me from uninstalling it.
    5. As for where a Windows Phone flagship is, it's not different than with HTC. HTC's One (M8) is just as old as the Lumia Icon is. The problem people have is that the Icon never came to AT&T, T-Mobile, or Sprint (as the Icon or as the 930). HTC's latest and greatest isn't any newer than Microsoft's. We're nearing the typical spring refresh for the Samsung and HTC lines, and Microsoft's summer launch shouldn't lag too far behind (we might even get an announcement from all 3 companies during MWC at the same time).
    Regarding 1: Yes it is. I'll let Anandtech show you how its not just higher clocks:
    AnandTech | The Difference Between Snapdragon 800 and 801: Clearing up Confusion

    Regarding 2: I noted the shortcomings of the HTC camera, why are you repeating me?

    Regarding 3: Yes it is. Same radio most likely too, with different bands unlocked. Go look at XDA, people unlock unsupported bands all the time without cracking open the device once. "The only difference is which networks they were made for." So...recycled? LOL.

    Regarding 4: What is your point? Nobody said you had to like it, but it is good for the WP ecosystem and you know it. It gives you choice, which is good for the consumer.

    Regarding 5: Just as old and still has newer hardware. You made my point for me, thanks :)
    01-28-2015 11:20 AM
  19. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Regarding 1: Yes it is. I'll let Anandtech show you how its not just higher clocks:
    AnandTech | The Difference Between Snapdragon 800 and 801: Clearing up Confusion

    Regarding 2: I noted the shortcomings of the HTC camera, why are you repeating me?

    Regarding 3: Yes it is. Same radio most likely too, with different bands unlocked. Go look at XDA, people unlock unsupported bands all the time without cracking open the device once. "The only difference is which networks they were made for." So...recycled? LOL.

    Regarding 4: What is your point? Nobody said you had to like it, but it is good for the WP ecosystem and you know it. It gives you choice, which is good for the consumer.

    Regarding 5: Just as old and still has newer hardware. You made my point for me, thanks :)
    This year's processor with 2005s camera. You can't win em all I guess.
    01-28-2015 11:24 AM
  20. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    My guess is 95% have never touched one. Another group read the camera was not as good. Only 1% have actually used both.

    I like the HTC One M8 a lot and if I gave the phone to pretty much anyone, they would all think it's a quality device.
    It's an OK device, and I agree that a lot just don't like it because of the fact that it isn't Nokia or Microsoft. However, some of us also just know what we want from our phones, and the One (M8) doesn't offer it. My cousin's got an Android iteration, and the first thing I thought upon holding it was that it's WAY too slick for my liking (something verified by his penchant for dropping it). While people say aluminum looks/feels better, I personally don't see it as mattering either way. Both the One and my 920 are slicker than I'd like my phone to be, so either one would just get a case thrown over it, which nullifies the aesthetics. People tout the One's build quality, but it's not exactly like the Nokia flagships are poorly built; they withstand all kinds of crap people do to them (mine personally survived a concrete encounter with no damage but a tiny nick in the chassis I found months later).

    I'm not a big photo person, but having the camera button on my 920 has led to a LOT more picture taking, and I like that. Giving it up for that One (M8) is just too much of a downgrade for nothing in return. Throw in the lack of Lumia firmware support, and a lot of us don't care to miss out on hardware and software features to switch to an OEM whose interest in the platform doesn't come close to the dedication of what Microsoft/Nokia offers.

    I think any level-headed evaluator can admit that the One is a well-built device that is probably the best Android option out there. However, the argument on Windows Phone always seems to be "what's wrong with the One (M8)?" It's never "here's what the One (M8) does better than the Nokia/Microsoft competition." I mean, all I can undoubtedly give the One credit for is the slightly improved SoC clock bumps, and they're not that meaningful. On the flip side, the camera is factually inferior, the hardware is missing features (camera button, wireless charging), and the software isn't as feature-rich (Lumia Camera, which will come, Glance, double-tap to wake, etc.). The last part comes to a preference of aluminum vs. polycarbonate, and I think that most of us either don't care much because both are quality build materials, or we prefer that the polycarbonate offerings include colors to let users feel unique.

    So, to circle back as I end this, the response you gave isn't an uncommon one: That many have never held a One (M8), let alone taken it for a spin as a daily device. However, that is often where the rebuttal ends. I never hear the expansion of that argument; if people WERE to hold/try the device, where would the One (M8) shine? What would it offer as an advantage to an Icon/930? Is the battery life significantly better? Is there useful software the HTC offerings hold exclusively? Does the device run cooler? I'd just like to here more actual discussion, rather than just the OP-style commenting of, "why do you hate it? It's pretty nice."
    01-28-2015 11:26 AM
  21. Adrynalyne's Avatar
    This year's processor with 2005s camera. You can't win em all I guess.
    MP size doesn't determine the camera's age, but thats ok, I know you were being facetious.
    matfantastic likes this.
    01-28-2015 11:26 AM
  22. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    You ahve always maintained that and has been the basis of your argument vs HTC and other OEMs. Don't backpeddle.
    Again this may be a tough concept for you to understand. But I'm in the present on January 28 having a discussion about the difference in OEMs amounts. Care to join me or are you going to regurgitate a dated argument from a week or so ago?
    matfantastic likes this.
    01-28-2015 11:27 AM
  23. Adrynalyne's Avatar
    Again this may be a tough concept for you to understand. But I'm in the present on January 28 having a discussion about the difference in OEMs amounts. Care to join me or are you going to regurgitate a dated argument from a week or so ago?
    Wow, you are backpeddling.

    I agree mostly but unfortunately we are beginning to lose our exclusive apps in favor of the lesser OEMs. But thankfully they still have exclusive features :)

    I can find more cases where it is clear you do not want other OEMs coming into WP, from this thread even.
    matfantastic likes this.
    01-28-2015 11:30 AM
  24. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    MP size doesn't determine the camera's age, but thats ok, I know you were being facetious.
    Making a point that you are trying to prop the m8 up for using a higher processor that in real world usage actually differs very little from my Lumia 1520 performance wise.....yet it is behind every competitor in other areas, such as its camera. Precisely why the phone is derided on both android and windows phone side.

    As I said, you can't win em all no matter how relevant you want to try to make the m8. Try again :)
    01-28-2015 11:31 AM
  25. dkediger's Avatar
    ....
    So, to circle back as I end this, the response you gave isn't an uncommon one: That many have never held a One (M8), let alone taken it for a spin as a daily device. However, that is often where the rebuttal ends. I never hear the expansion of that argument; if people WERE to hold/try the device, where would the One (M8) shine? What would it offer as an advantage to an Icon/930? Is the battery life significantly better? Is there useful software the HTC offerings hold exclusively? Does the device run cooler? I'd just like to here more actual discussion, rather than just the OP-style commenting of, "why do you hate it? It's pretty nice."
    Kind of where I am at. With my Icon going strong, I have no reason to look at another phone. Would I like the opportunity to try one out - sure! Just fondling a display model in a store isn't going to tell me much. If I was in the market for a phone, I would look hard at the M8. I also hope HTC does well on the long term hardware durability, 'cause we do need other OEMs to be strong with WP.
    BenJAMIN_2009 likes this.
    01-28-2015 11:39 AM
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